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I tried, for example, to talk to the one who had started it all and I asked him just what did he mean we were all full of shit? Was he making a statement of fact as he knew it and where was his documentation to back up his claim? I think Socrates would have been proud of the way I refuted his argument. That is, I *tried* to refute it. But all he could offer by way of rebuttal was more of the same: about how we were all full of shit. But he wouldn't say why; he just kept on repeating it. That and the part about Russia and China and Communist dupes. And I'll have to confess that I got a bit angry and told him to stuff his ideas up his ass (which you don't have to tell me is hardly a way to convince anyone in an argument). Then he got salty and threatened to give me a punch in the mouth if I didn't shut up. And I really got hot and the others did, too. And we all beat the shit out of Mr. Conservative. And, after all, he had only himself to be blamed. This is still a free country and anyone telling a fellow like me "brother, you're full of shit" better be good and ready to answer politely when asked if he'd care to say WHY!