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Jesus was Caesarion, son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra. I suspect this because the Jews were never descendants of slaves in Egypt, but of the Aryan-Semitic Hyksos invaders, according to Ancient Egyptian-Greeks historians like Manetho, Apion, Mnaseas of Patrae, Democritus, etc. The proto-Toledot Yeshu precedes the Synoptic Gospel, saying that Jesus lived in the 1st century BC (not 1st century AD), that a Queen Helene of Judea was a gentile and claimed to be a relative/disciple of Jesus, being Cleopatra Selene, half-sister of Caesarion. In addition to the Proto-Toledot Yeshu, the Egyptian Gospel of Thomas precedes the Synoptic Gospels, being written by Alexander Helios, the twin half-brother of Selene and Caesarion, known in the Synoptic Gospels as "Thomas Didymus (Twin)". Selene in the Synoptic Gospels btw is known as Mary Magdalene, the true "Beloved Disciple" and author of John. His followers were not known as Christians, but "Chrestians", who had many similarities with the Gnostics/Marcionites as Cesearion was sent to India by his mother Cleopatra, learning the doctrines of Sramanic philosophies and beliefs (samsara/imperfect material world, nivarna/gnosis, etc.).
Anonymous
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The first Homeric hymn traces Dionysus’ origin to “Nysa, a mountain most high and richly grown with woods, far off in Phoenicia, near the streams of Aegyptus…” In the seventh hymn, he first appears “on a jutting headland by the shore of the fruitless sea.” The only “fruitless” that is to say, fishless, sea between Phoenicia and the Nile is the Dead Sea, and the tall forested mountain to its south is Mount Seir (Edom), the mountain of origin of Yahweh.
According to Dionysiaca, Zeus ordering Dionysus to travel to India, whose inhabitants refuse to worship him. The Indians stubbornly prefer their ancestral gods of fire and water. Worse still, they refuse to drink wine, Dionysus’s “care-forgetting vintage”. Dionysus gathers an enormous army. As it marches across the ancient world to India, he also collects a number of lovers. His foe is Deriades, ruler of India and son of the Jhelum river (where Alexander had fought Porus centuries before). Deriades, being half river himself, drinks only water. He scorns Dionysus’s beverage, insisting that “my wine is the spear”. Helped by Brahmins versed in sorcery, Deriades fights several battles with Dionysus before finally succumbing to the god’s power.
I am making this comparison between Dionysius and Alexander the Great because the Septuagint itself (Greek Translation of the Hebrew Bible) was made during his Hellenization of the conquered peoples by 70 Jewish-Egyptians in Alexandria and he died after returning from India at the age of 33.
https://youtu.be/2-kNXwCBkb4?t=5532 Anonymous
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>>19375112 Convergent game mythologies (fromsoft, wotc, blizzard, etc) tell the true tale of the earlier days of humanity. Perhaps as recent as the early to mid 1900's.
Anonymous
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https://books.google.com.br/books/about/The_Royal_Egyptian_Bastard_Jesus.html?id=YuSKuAEACAAJ&redir_esc=y >Doug Brown PhD (physics) has researched historical and literary sources in an attempt to identify the historical Jesus. The Caesarion-Jesus identification is pursued by invoking the Clemency policy of Octavian for survival of Cleopatra's family. A Hegelian Dialectic of Christology provides a dating procedure for separating the earliest of the Nag Hammadi tractates as an original Jesus family corpus of writings. This identifies the synoptic gospels (Mark, Matthew and Luke) as misappropriating an originally Roman-Greek royal Egyptian bastard (Gentile) Jesus as instead not only Jewish but also as the Jewish Christ, contrary to how he was known by his family. Jesus was instead originally introduced to the world via the strictly first century Gospel of Thomas written by Alexander Helios Antonius, the twin brother of Caesarion >The identification of Paul of Tarsus as a fictional character based on the Autobiography of Josephus is set within the Christology Dialectic dating the Pauline corpus as a post Markan antithesis after 100CE, a later period than conventionally understood. The resulting identification of a Gentile Jesus Corpus of writings left behind by the family of Jesus then suggests a possible alternative understanding of the Marcion corpus different from conventionally understood; finally, a post-170CE Era of Christian Fiction introduces an Apostolic Corpus including the Gospel of John inventing new ecclesiastical authorities intended to replace the Jesus family in a new unrelated proto-orthodox church. Lastly, DNA testing in conjunction with remains of Arsinoe, the half-sister of Cleopatra, is suggested as a means of attempting to verify the Gentile Jesus family model in the event of discovery of human remains Anonymous
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>>19375112 your steeped in allegory and have failed to realize that the pantheonic gods were aggregations of powerful men, never has any man been attested as being a single god, the death of pan concurrent with the death of alexander is the closest ever recordes, and for good reason, the mushroom loving west immiedately became under assault by nigger romans obsessed with dominance
Anonymous
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>>19375112 >Cleopatra She died 30 years before Jesus was born, when she was 21. Cases where women are able to give birth at 51 or so are extremely rare and almost always involve some surrogate embryo transplants or something like that. So I think we could rule this schizo theory out as implausible.
Anonymous
https://lost-history.com/christianity_is_older.php >Bowl from Alexandria, dated late second century BCE to early first century CE “By Chrst the magician” >Christianity is Older Than We Think >Archaeological Evidence and Literary Sources Point to First Century BCE Jesus >French marine archaeologist and co-founder of the Oxford Center of Maritime Archaeology, Franck Goddio, announced that his team discovered a cup in Alexandria with the engraving “DIA-KRHST-OUOGOISTAIS”, which means “By Chrst the Magician” >Although the Book of Leviticus in the Hebrew Bible prohibits divination, the portrayal of Jesus provided in the first three Biblical gospels do in fact portray Jesus as exorcizing spirits and making personal commands that causes a change in nature, as in the story of Jesus calming the storm, as well as using his own saliva on dirt as a healing agent, all of which were common magical practices in ancient times. It is only by the synthesis of Hebrew law and Greek novelistic biography that what would otherwise be understood to be “miracles” in order to contrast against “magic” >The most intriguing aspect of the bowl, however, is that it dates to the late second century BCE to early first century CE >Since the four gospels place Pontius Pilate behind the crucifixion of Jesus, most Biblical scholars have dated the event to 30 CE. If time is allowed for Christianity as a movement to develop after the death of Jesus, the date on the cup seems to be too early – so early, in fact, that some scholars are hesitant to say that the engraving on the cup refers to Jesus Christ and are looking for other ways to explain it. Oxford Classical archaeologist Bart Smith suggests that the engraving might refer to a person named “Chrestos” and that the cup belonged to a hypothetical cult named Ogiostais. re alternative translation is "[Given] through kindness to the magicians" Anonymous
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>The discoverer himself is more optimistic. “It could very well be a reference to Jesus Christ, in that he was once the primary exponent of white magic,” said Goddio in the NBC News article >The canonical gospels never actually refer to Jesus as a magician, although the Gospel of Matthew does say that it was three Magi from the East who visit Jesus while he is an infant. The titular identification of Jesus as a magician can instead be linked to the Talmudic tradition. The Mishnah, the early part of the Talmud that is dated to the early third century, also refers to Yeshu as “the Nazarene” and one who “practiced magic and deceived and led Israel astray.” >However, the Mishnah does not date Yeshu to the early first century CE. Instead, it provides two contradictory dates: the second century BCE and the first century BCE. Yeshu is the student of Joshua ben Perachiah, a rabbi who is said to have fled with Yeshu from Jerusalem to Alexandria to escape religious sectarian persecution from either John Hyrcanus from the second century BCE, or his son, Alexander Jannaeus from the first century BCE. The Gospel of Matthew also tells a story of Jesus being taken to Egypt by parental figures, only in the gospel version, Jesus is just a baby at the time. The Talmud claims that Jesus was a memzer, a word that is typically translated into English as bastard but in actuality describes a form of illegitimacy that includes children born from adultery or incest but does not include children born outside of marriage. Other stories about Yeshu in the Mishnah tells stories of him being excommunicated by Joshua ben Perachiah for one minor misunderstanding or another, which is then said to have been the reason why Yeshu subsequently becomes an idolater. But the stories come off as unrealistic rationalizations >In other Jewish magical traditions, Joshua ben Perachiah was himself an exorcist. In fact, his name is also used on magic bowls just like this one
Anonymous
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>Why would the Mishnah describe Joshua ben Perachiah as a good, upstanding Pharisee who fails to keep his student Yeshu from becoming a magician if there are other traditions that say Joshua ben Perachiah was also a magician? A likely answer is that Josahua ben Perachiah was appropriated by the rabbinic authors and so had to invent stories about Yeshu being excommunicated in order to explain the fictional disconnect between Yeshu and his “reformed” uncle. Following this line of thought, these stories about Joshua ben Perachiah excommunicating Yeshu are just trying to explain why Joshua ben Perachiah was not really a magician like his famous contemporary was. He was a good but overly harsh rabbi who, in the Talmud’s own words, pushed the impressionable Yeshu away. Every good rabbi was supposed to push their student with one hand – cricitizing them to keep the student disciplined – and then bring them back with the other hand, so as not to student to give up in frustration, but the Talmud says that Joshua ben Perachiah pushed Yeshu away with both hands, causing the boy to become the idolater that both of them had always been >The Mishnah says that after Yeshu was excommunicated by Joshua ben Perachiah, he returned with knowledge of Egyptian magic, seduced people into following him. The Talmud also identifies five disciples rather than twelve, and says that Yeshu was stoned to death of idolatry and then hung on a tree in the town of Lydda during Passover. This Passover execution parallels the story element of Jesus being crucified in Jerusalem on or near Passover from the gospels. Yeshu is then said to be one of the top three worst idolaters of all time and is boiling in excrement as punishment for his spiritual crimes
Anonymous
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>The part about Jesus being hung on a tree has a strong parallel with how Jesus is described as being executed in all of the New Testament books outside the gospels. Jesus is repeatedly referred to being hung on a xulon (Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24, Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29), which is typically translated as “tree”, although it could mean any kind of wooden pole. The New International Version instead translates the phrase: “hung on a pole”. The gospels instead say that Jesus was hung on a stauros, the more literal identification for “cross”. It is generally assumed that the references to Jesus being hung on the cross in the gospels are literal and the references to Jesus being hung on a tree in passages that were duplicated in the New Testament Epistles and the Acts of the Apostles are allegorical, but what if the opposite is true? What if the references to Jesus being hung on a tree were meant to be taken literally and the story element of Jesus being hung on a Roman cross was supposed to be an allegory comparing the Roman execution of a fictional Jesus in the first century CE to the sectarian execution of a historical Yeshu in the first century BCE? Another passage from the Epistles, 1 Thessalonians 2:14 also identifies fellow Jews, not the Romans, as “the ones who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out”, which is such a major contradiction to both the gospel story and other epistles attributed to Paul that many scholars consider the passage to be an interpolation >There is another Talmudic story where a a “Notzi”, or Nazarene, tries to heal a man from a snakebite but is prevented from doing so by a respected second century CE rabbi because the rabbi believed it was better for the bitten man to die than to be saved of the snake venom through a charm and be “bitten by the snake in the hereafter”
Anonymous
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>Since the Talmud refers to Christians as the “Notzi”, or Nazarenes, and the Bible and Church Fathers confirm that this was the pre-Christian designation for a follower of Jesus, this story may represent part of a historical reasoning for the religious conflict between Pharisee and Nazarene. The “magic” attributed to Yeshu may have included unorthodox Egyptian healing techniques or rituals. The miracle stories in the first three gospels, the Synoptic gospels, likewise reflect a tradition of ritualistic healing measures not found in the Old Testament, which the Pharisees and elders constantly lodge theological complaints against. It is only much later, when Acts of the Apostles is written, that a distinction is made between the miracles of Jesus and the trickster magic of the supposed “fountainhead” of the heretical Gnostic mysteries, Simon Magus >There is also evidence that at least one ancient sect of proto-Christians believed Jesus lived in the first century BCE. Epiphanius, a fourth-century heresy-fighting bishop, himself endorsed a legend from a competing Jewish sect of Christianity that said that Jesus inherited his Messianic kingship from Alexander Jannaeus. Of course Epiphanius still believed that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate so he apparently did not even realize that Alexander Jannaeus lived a century earlier: >“The priesthood in the holy church is [actually] David’s throne and kingly seat, for the Lord joined together and gave to his holy church both the kingly and high-priestly dignity, transferring to it the never-failing throne of David. For David’s throne endured in line of succession until the time of Christ himself, rulers from Judah not failing until he came ‘to whom the things kept in reserve belong, and he was the expectation of the nations’
Anonymous
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>With the advent of the Christ the rulers in line of succession from Judah, reigning until the time of Christ himself, ceased. For the line fell away and stopped from the time when he was born in Bethlehem of Judea under Alexander, who was of priestly and royal race. From Alexander onward this office ceased – from the days of Alexander and Salina, who is also called Alexandra, to the days of Herod the king and Augustus the Roman emperor (Though this Alexander was crowned also, as one of the anointed priests and rulers.) For when the two tribes, the kingly and priestly, were united—- I mean the tribe of Judah with Aaron and the whole tribe of Levi—kings also became priests, for nothing hinted at in holy scripture can be wrong.) But then finally a gentile, King Herod, was crowned, and not David’s descendants any more. But with the transfer of the royal throne the rank of king passed, in Christ, from the physical house of David and Israel to the church.” -Panarion Ch. 29 (emphasis added) >“From the time that Augustus became Emperor [27 BCE]... until Judaea was made [entirely] subject and became tributary to them, its rulers having ceased from Judah, and Herod being appointed [as ruler] from the Gentiles [37 BCE], being a proselyte, however, and Christ being born in Bethlehem of Judaea, and coming for the preaching [of the Gospel], the anointed rulers from Judah and Aaron having ceased, after continuing until the anointed ruler Alexander [76 BCE] and Salina, who was also Alexandra [67 BCE]; in which days the prophecy of Jacob was fulfilled: ‘A ruler shall not cease from Judah and a leader from his thighs, until lie come for whom it is laid up, and he is the expectation of the nations’ –that is, the Lord who was born.” -Panarion, Ch. 51 (emphasis added)
Anonymous
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>Interestingly enough, the “heretical sect” that Epiphanius was referencing just happened to have the same exact name as the earliest label for Jesus’ followers: the “Nazoraeans”. Now, Epiphanius does make a distinction between the Nazoraeans of his own time and the Nazoraeans from the time of Jesus. The former was just another heretical sect among dozens while the latter was the name that all Christians went by before they were called Christians. According to Epiphanius, the Nazoraeans of his time continued to follow the laws of Moses and believed that the mantle of King David’s leadership had rightfully passed from Alexander Jannaeus directly to Jesus. Epiphanius agrees with them on the last part although he provides no explanation for why the king would have done this. Instead, the crown of Judah was placed upon the head of the first queen of Jerusalem, Salome Alexandra, who represented the Jewish elders fighting against Jesus, and who, according to the Talmud, are the ones who stone Jesus to death and hang him on a tree >There is also a quote from Mara Bar Serapion which indicates that he believed a nameless “wise king” was killed around the same time period: >“What else can we say, when the wise are forcibly dragged off by tyrants, their wisdom is captured by insults, and their minds are oppressed and without defense? What advantage did the Athenians gain from murdering Socrates? Famine and plague came upon them as a punishment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea and the Jews, desolate and driven from their own kingdom, live in complete dispersion
Anonymous
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>>19375118 The Jewsus Kike cult was a syncretism of everything the big nosed sandniggers could mix together at the time (this greek stuff, mithraism, manichaeism, hindusim/buddhism, ...) and those are older than the other LARP by those same people, Judaism, which is also the result of syncretism.
Anonymous
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>But Socrates is not dead, because of Plato; neither is Pythagoras, because of the statue of Juno; nor is the wise king, because of the “new law” he laid down.” (emphasis added) >The reference to the “wise king” being killed by sectarian Jews rather than by Romans matches the passage from 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15 mentioned earlier, which also places blame on Jesus’ death on Jews. This scenario would only make sense in a pre-Roman context when the state of Judah still had the ability to execute people for heresy. The Pauline Epistles in the New Testament likewise refer to Jesus bringing a “New Covenant” just as Mara says the wise king instituted a “new law”. The fact that this King of the Jews was nameless is interesting in light of the Talmud’s claim that the name Yeshu is an acronym for yemach shemo vezichro, meaning: “May his name and memory be obliterated”. If so, it was perhaps the greatest irony that the Greek variation of that name would become the most famous name in the world for the past thousand years >Mara Bar Serapion’s quote is dated sometime between the first and third century CE. Most scholars assume that the part about the Jews being driven from their kingdom refers to the fall of Jerusalem by the Roman Emperor Titus in 73 CE, but the very short and failed occupation of Jerusalem by three competing Jewish factions between 68 and 73 CE could hardly have been a “kingdom”. The Jewish kingdom referenced by Mara must have been the Hasmonian kingdom, which fell shortly after the death of Salome Alexandra (called Salina by Epiphanius) in 63 BCE, to Pompey, the famous Roman ally/rival of Julius Caesar
Anonymous
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>The Chrst cup, the Mishnah, the Toledot Yeshu, the Nazoraeans of Epiphanius, and Mara Bar Serapion all point to an earlier, first century BCE Yeshu figure inspiring the story of the gospel Jesus, whose Hellenistic audience was unfamiliar with Yeshu and so started to assume that the fictional gospel Jesus was the historical Jesus. >The Testimonium Flavian Forgery >The most famous reference by a historian to Jesus is accredited to Josephus Flavius in the first century CE. The Antiquities of the Jews, the second historical work under his name, appears to provide an uncharacteristically small description of Jesus and his followers. The standard version of the Josephus text that has come down to us has a short paragraph about Jesus called the Testimonium Flavian, which reads: >“But Pilate undertook to bring a current of water to Jerusalem, and did it with sacred money... However the Jews were not pleased... So he [Pilate] bade the Jews himself to go away; but they boldly casting reproaches on him, he gave the soldiers that signal... and equally punished those that were tumultuous, and those that were not, nor did they spare them in the least...and thus an end was put to this sedition.” >“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”
Anonymous
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>About the same time also another sad calamity put the Jews into disorder; and certain shameful practices happened about the temple of Isis in Rome...” (emphasis added) >Since Jospehus had said elsewhere that the Roman Emperor Vespasian was the one prophesized in Jewish Messianic lore, he could not possibly have believed that Jesus was the Christ. One theory, popularized by Biblical scholar Geza Vermes, is that the original text instead used the phrase “He was called the Christ”, which correlates with a later Antiquities 2.23.20 passage from two books later about James, “brother of Jesus, that is called the Christ”. However, these are the only two instances in both of his historical works in which he uses the title Christ. Every other time Josephus refers to a Jewish term unfamiliar his Roman audience, he provides a long explanation of what the term means, but in this case, he appears to assume that his readers are familiar with the term Christ >This historical verification of Jesus living in the first century CE is accepted by a majority of Biblical scholars today, but during the 1800s, scholars were nearly unanimous in identifying the passage as a falsely attributed interpolation of the original text. In 1874, the Anglican priest Sabine Baring-Gould wrote: >“That this passage is spurious has been almost universally acknowledged. One may be, perhaps, accused of killing dead birds, if one again examines and discredits the passage... It has been suggested that Josephus may have written about Christ as in the passage quoted, but that the portions within brackets are the interpolations of a Christian copyist. But when these portions within brackets are removed, the passage loses all its interest and is a dry statement utterly unlike the sort of notice Josephus would have been likely to insert
Anonymous
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>He gives colour to his narratives, his incidents are always sketched with vigour; this account would be meagre beside those of the riot of the Jews and the rascality of the priests of Isis. Josephus asserts, moreover, that in his time there were four sects of the Jews--the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes, and the sect of Judas of Gamala. He gives tolerably copious particulars about these sects and their teachings, but of the Christian sect he says not a word. Had he wished to write about it, he would have given full details, likely to interest his readers, and not have dismissed the subject in a couple of lines.” >What Baring-Gould wrote over a century ago is nevertheless just as true today, but by the 20th century, popular opinion shifted and the majority of scholars decided some parts of the text were genuine. Most biblical scholars and something like three out of four Josephus scholars now believe there is a Josephan core within the interpolation. The choppy way the sentences are formed could indicate that the more glowing compliments were added later. But, assuming the passage was added on to, that does not prove that the earlier version was not itself an interpolation. Regardless of how many times the Testimonium Flavian was edited, the entire passage is out of context. The “sad calamity” that “put the Jews into disorder” is undoubtedly referring to the sedition over Temple funds that comes before the Testimonium Flavian. It is also in the middle of a list of massacres of Pharisees caused by an evil an overbearing Pilate bringing catastrophe after catastrophe on the Pharisees, whereas the Testimonium suddenly paints Pilate as being the puppet of the Pharisees, just as they are portrayed in the gospels
Anonymous
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>While the majority of the early Church fathers, most especially the Alexandrian theologian Origen, were very familiar with the works of Josephus and quoted Antiquities often, all of them failed to reference the Testimonium. It was not until 324 CE that the first person quoted the Testimonium. This person was the Roman Emperor Constantine's official church historian, Eusebius of Caeseera, and he also happened to use similar terminology as used in the Testimonium, such as “tribe of Christians” >There is one other Jewish historian that we know of who wrote a chronicle of Jewish kings that covered the time of Jesus. It was written by a rival of Josephus named Justus of Tiberius. Although his historical work is now lost, Photius, the 9th century Patriarch of Constantinople, did own a copy and he was so shocked to find that Justus failed to mention Jesus, he concluded it must have been done on purpose to spite him >A study done by Paul Hopper, Professor Emeritus of the Humanities at the Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, showed that the differences in Greek verb forms came from a very different genre of rhetoric connected to creeds closer to the time of Eusebius. In Hopper's conclusion, he writes: >“Outside the Gospels, there is no independent contemporary (i.e., first century CE) account of these events. The silence of other commentators, and the absence of any mention of the Testimonium by Christian writers for two full centuries after Josephus, even when engaged in fierce polemic about Jesus, are strong indications that the passage was not present in Josephus’s own extraordinarily detailed account of this period
Anonymous
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>The activities of a religious fanatic who moved around Galilee and Judaea preaching a gospel of peace and salvation, was said to have performed miracles, was followed by crowds of thousands of adoring disciples, and within the space of a few hours invaded the hallowed grounds of the Temple, was hauled up before the Sanhedrin, tried by King Herod, interrogated by Pontius Pilate and crucified, all amid public tumult, made no impression on history-writers of the period.” >And aside from all that, even if we assume that Josephus wrote part of the Testimonium and it went completely ignored by the church fathers for all that time, there is no possibility that this could have come from a Roman report because any Roman report would have focused entirely on the fact that Jesus disrupted the Temple festivities during the Cleansing of the Temple, which is described as the cause of Jesus' crucifixion in the first three gospels. Josephus consistently denounced all such discontents in his writings. The Testimonium even fails to provide any context for Jesus' death, saying only that the principal Jews executed a wise, truthful, inclusive, and beloved teacher for no particular reason. If there is an authentic core to the Testimonium, it could only be the synopsis of a floating gospel fiction like that of Luke 24:19-24 which Josephus would have passed along as history, just as he relayed apocryphal miracle stories about Moses as history
Anonymous
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>Christians, Chrestians and Tacitus >Another popular citation to mention Jesus is by the Roman historian Tacitus. The copies of his 116 CE Annals that have come down to us read: >“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Chrestians by the populace. Christ, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus. And a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.” (emphasis added) >Like the Testimonium Flavian, the information provided is extremely sparse, but unlike it, the tone is negative. The first noticeably strange attribute from the quote is that “Chrestians” are said to have derived their name from “Christ”. As it turns out, the word “Chrestians” in the Tacitus manuscript was at one point “corrected” to say “Christians” and it was only due to a suspicious space left behind and ultra-violet examination that the 11th century original was shown to have been subsequently altered. But why would Tacitus use two different spellings? One possible explanation for why there are two different spellings is that one of them is an interpolation
Anonymous
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>Frank Zindler, the director of American Atheist Press, argues in his book The Jesus the Jews Never Knew, that the passage could not have existed for so long without being cited by the Church fathers. For example, the second century Latin father Tertullian quoted Tacitus’ Histories, but failed to quote this passage from Annals. Both Clement of Alexandria and Eusebius failed to include the Tacitus quote in their compilations of non-Christian citations of Jesus, and Origen, a known voracius reader, appears to have missed it too. Zindler also points out that this story about Nero scapegoating the Chrestians for a fire and then torturing and burning them in obscene ways contradicts another account from Seutonius that Nero never had anyone killed in his gladitorial show. Seutonius, who was critical of Nero, did later say that Nero punished the Christians, and it is possible to interpret his words as meaning a death sentence, but Zindler thinks that Nero's flaming Christian circus show as described by Tacitus to be highly unlikely given that statement by Seutonius. It can be countered that there need not be a contradiction since one was a general comment about a gladiator show and one was a specific punishment in retaliation for a scapegoated crime. Zindler even goes so far as to open up the possibility that the entire Annals is a forgery, although other versions of the manuscript being discovered, as well as a misquote of Annals from the astronomer Ptolemy, have provided more than enough evidence of its overall authenticity. Nevertheless, if the sentence describing Christ as the origin of the Chrestians, italicized above, were taken out of the paragraph, that would not only solve the seeming contradiction that Christ would beget Chrestians, but it would also (re)connect two closely related sentences and eliminate the one part of the paragraph that connected Jesus to the first century CE
Anonymous
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>A second explanation for why there are two different spellings is that both "Christians" and "Chrestians" were terms being thrown around at the time and Tacitus was attempting to explain how one became the other. The 19th-century German Lutheran theologian Adolf van Harnack suggested that Tacitus was trying to show his superior knowledge by providing the true etymology of the name the Chrestians mistakenly called themselves. Yet Tacitus himself gives no such indication that that is what he was doing. Where would Tacitus have gotten his information? Although Tacitus did commend himself for relying solely on written evidence and not accepting hearsay, it is nevertheless hard to imagine that he would bother spending time checking Roman archives for such a short, unimportant tangent. Even if we assume Tacitus had attempted to retrieve archives to confirm that Christ lived in the first century BCE, the records from Jesus' time period would probably have been destroyed in the two library fires that had occurred in Rome since then. So if Tacitus did write the sentence about Christ living during the time of the Roman Emperor Tiberius, he probably would have gotten it from Chrestians or the gospels themselves. The only canonical gospel from the Bible that mentions Tiberius is the Gospel of Luke in the fourth chapter, and as it so happens, a very popular heretical group known as the Marcionites used a version of the Gospel of Luke that instead began with the line about Jesus living during the time of Tiberius, and that they also called Jesus "Chrestos" instead of "Christos" since they did not believe that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. There is also an Egyptian text from Oxyrhynchus, dated to around the fifth century CE, of a man named Horus who identifies himself as a Chrestian
Anonymous
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>>19375112 Sort of legit.
Queen Helene of Judea = Salome III (King Herod's grandaughter) aka Cleopatra (Thea Philopator) of Mauretania or Cleopatra IX aka Pythodorida Philometor aka Drusilla of Mauretania aka Julia Ourania of Parthia aka Salone III (King Herod's grandaughter) who wrote under the alias "Philo of Alexandria" and who ended up in Rome as 'Antonia Caenis' who was Vespasian's mistress.
She was married to her brother Alexander (grandson of King Herod) aka Gaius Julius Alexander aka Gaius Julius Alexander, Herodian Prince of Judaea aka Alexander Lysimachus aka Alexander the Alabarch aka Tiberius Julius Alexander Major aka (king/Tetrarch) Ptolemy (Alexander) bar Menneus aka Ptolemy of Mauretania (aka 'Joseph Pa-nter-ra', the name for jesus's father in the Talmud) aka Monobazus I aka Agbarus King of Adiabene who was the richest man in the empire.
They had two sons: Marcus Julius Alexander aka Gaius Plinius Secundus ('Pliny the Elder') aka Gaius Calpernius Piso aka Izates bar Monobazus and Tiberius Julius Alexander aka Josephus aka Arrius Piso (Seneca referred to Josephus as "Episemos", which in ancient Greek translates to "son of Piso", and "Arrius" comes from "Arrius Varus", one of his many alias).
See:
https://www.christcuck.org This family held immense power in the Roman empire until Caligula took power. Then they conspired to create a psyop using the Divine Julius cult as the blueprint.
Anonymous
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>The fact that there were both Christians and Chrestians has been substantiated by a large number of Phrygian inscriptions from Anatolia (modern Turkey), including a stone inscription that says, “Chrestians for Christians”, proving that they were undeniably two distinct yet intertwining groups >A Phrygian inscription reading, “Chrestians for Christians” >If Christians believed in Christos, did that mean that Chrestians believed in Chrestos? Seutonius reports that since “the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, [Emperor Claudius] expelled them from Rome.” Scholars are divided as to whether to interpret this to mean that an unrelated Jew named Chrestus led the riot in Rome or that the sentence was poorly spelled and written but that Seutonius meant that Jesus inspired Jewish Christians to revolt in Rome. Given the alternate spelling that Tacitus provides, it seems very likely that Christos and Chrestus were the same person and that he inspired two different religious sects that had different interpretations of his theological status >Acts of the Apostles, the sequel to the Gospel of Luke, implies there was some connection between the riot and Christianity because it tells of two followers of Jesus named Aquilla and Priscilla that arrived in Corinth following the expulsion and there met Paul and then taught another follower named Apollos. Now, there was actually a second century Montanist follower of Jesus named Priscilla who taught asceticism and was part of a duo as well, although it was not a man but another woman named Maximillia. Although Acts first introduces them as Aquilla and his wife Priscilla, it later switches the order to Priscilla and Aquilla. Thus it may have been that the original sources used the names Priscilla and Maximillia but were later changed to a husband and wife duo so that the story supported a revised rule that women were not allowed to teach
Anonymous
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>The Montanists lived in Phrygia where the term Chrestian has been shown to have been used >Unlike the Marcionites, the Montanists were not considered heretics to the Apostolic Church, but they were not greatly liked either. Like the Marcionites, the Montanists believed in the equality between men and women, and they also had a very anti-hierarchal nature. They were very politically troublesome in that they identified the “New Jerusalem” from the Book of Revelation with the Phrygian town of Pepuza. Later in life, Tertullian himself converted to “The New Prophecy” (which some Christians referred to as the “false prophecy”), denegrating the Apostolic Church he once defended as a “church of a lot of bishops” before founding his own Tertullianist group that outlasted Montanism but dwindled down to almost nothing in St. Augustine's times. Not wanting to admit that the sect was run by women, the Apostolic church named the sect after its highest-ranking male leader, Montanus, a former priest of Apollo. In Acts of the Apostles, Aquilla and Priscilla meet a certain Apollos who they are said to have taught about Jesus. Acts then makes it a point to say that Apollos was in Corinth when Paul begins teaching about Jesus in the city of Ephesus, during which time Acts says that the Holy Spirit inhabited the Ephesians so that they began to speak in tongues, and speaking in tongues was the central hallmark of the Pentecostal-like Montanists. Thus, the author of Luke-Acts attempts to give Paul credit for Montanus’ Ephesian converts by having Paul precede Montanus, a theme also found in 1 Corinthians which says: “I [Paul] planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow” >In conclusion, both Josephus and Tacitus wrote their references to Jesus 20 to 40 years after the earliest gospel appeared and there are no additional details from outside the gospel tradition that they knew about Jesus as anything other than a story
Anonymous
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>The first gospel stories of Jesus are believed to have been written right after the war since so much of the death of Jesus is interpreted through the lens of the destruction of Herod's Temple in Jerusalem by Josephus' Roman messiah, Titus, in 73 CE Like the Book of Daniel, the Gospel of Mark, associated the death of the Messiah with the end of the world, and so a story about the messiah Yeshu, like that found in the Talmud, would have a problem resonating with people in the late first century since that was so long ago. Why would the death of a man almost 140 years ago have anything to do with what was happening then? An event 40 years previous was more prescient. But is it really possible that the gospel story about the first century CE Messiah could have been based on an earlier proto-gospel about the first century BCE Messiah? There is, in fact, strong evidence that such a proto-gospel once existed in the form of a satirical anti-gospel written in Aramaic, providing a scornful biography not of the canonical Jesus, but of the Talmud's Yeshu
Anonymous
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>Sepher Toledot Yeshu: The Anti-Gospel >Sepher Toledot Yeshu, or “Book of the Generations of Jesus” >The Talmud passages do not provide very much information about Yeshu other than to say that he was an a student of Yehoshua ben Perachiah as well as a memzer of “illegitimate birth”, he was taken to Egypt in his youth, and that he later turned to idolatry and became a magician with five disciples. But his story is further elaborated on in a series of Jewish anti-gospels collectively referred to as the Sepher Toledot Yeshu, or Toldoth Jeschu. Two of these Toledot anti-gospels have been translated into English and titled: 1) The Jewish Life of Jesus and 2) The Jewish Life of Christ. The Jewish Life of Jesus appears to be the earlier version of the two. Rather than it being a Jewish satire of the Greek gospels, Life of Jesus appears to be a very short, early gospel about the first century BCE Jesus that has been altered to put him in a negative light. Life of Christ looks like a sister text to Life of Jesus that has been edited up to be harmonized with one of the Greek canonical gospels, perhaps Matthew >Many scholars have often dated the Toledot Yeshu stories very late, often from the sixth century or the medieval period, but there is very compelling evidence that the story elements come from a tradition that is earlier than the canonical gospels. Did Jesus Live 100 BC? (1903) by the English historian and theosophist G.R.S. Mead, and The Jesus the Jews Never Knew (2003) by Frank Zindler are two extremely thorough investigations that conclude that the Yeshu tradition was earlier than the Jesus tradition. But whereas Mead left the question as to whether the original Jesus lived in the first century BCE or not open, Zindler came to the conclusion that the Yeshu references began as anonymous aphorisms and then slowly built up knowledge as information after proto-Christians invented a first century BCE Christ figure from the dying-and-rising god mystery religions
Anonymous
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>Biblical scholar Robert M. Price, who also included the Toledot in his Pre-Nicene New Testament, has likewise suggested that as time moved on, Jesus may have been “dragged along”, the date for his setting being updated as the story evolved >Both Toledot stories revolve around Yeshu gaining his healing powers by stealing the secret Name of God and using it as a magic word, after which Yeshu tries to convert a queen named Helene, who is said to be his relative. The gospel Jesus is portrayed as a peasant whose fame comes from his ability to provide miraculous healings, but in this story, Yeshu is highborn, a status that provides a far more realistic background for someone whose identity was used to found a religion. In the Toledot story, Queen Helene wavers between supporting him and supporting his enemies. These enemies are the ostensible heroes of the piece, Jewish elders who appear to represent proto-Pharisees >The earlier Jewish Life of Jesus version of the story is set primarily in Beth-El and the surrounding lands of Israel. In this version, Yeshu learns the secret Name of God from the Stone of Jacob mentioned in Genesis 28:18 by sneaking into a temple guarded by magic copper dogs whose bark makes anyone who memorized the Name of God forget it. Yeshu, however, overcomes this magical protection by writing down the name and then hiding it inside his cut flesh. After he learns how to use the name to heal and resurrect people, he uses his powers to impress a mysterious queen named Helene. The queen in the story eventually sides with the elders and Yeshu is arrested but escapes with the help of his disciples. Yeshu then went to Jerusalem in disguise, dressed in the same identical garb as all of his disciples, so it takes a traitor, named Gaisa or Eisa, to point Jesus out by kneeling before him. Yeshu is arrested and stoned to death as a magician and is then hung on a cabbage stalk or a carob tree
Anonymous
"Philo of Alexandria" was a woman: Salome III (King Herod's grandaughter). Her two sons wrote as Josephus and Pilny the Elder. Her brother/husband Alexander was the richest man in the empire.
Anonymous
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>Life of Jesus also includes a very obvious interpolation breaking the story structure in the middle of the narrative to describe an episode not found in Life of Christ in which Jesus and Judas have a mid-air sorcerer battle that is very similar to an apocryphal Christian story in which the evil sorcerer Simon Magus squares off against the apostle Simon Peter. Both versions of the flying battle ends with a crash landing. One of the reasons we can be sure that the sorcerer battle in the Toledot is a later interpolation is that this is only time Judas is introduced yet after this story, it goes back to the original plot in which Gaisa is the traitor >Life of Christ changes the setting of the story from Bethel to the south to Jerusalem and the kingdom of Judah. The Stone of Jacob is relocated to inside the Jerusalem Temple. The magic copper dogs that guard the temple are changed into magic copper lions, which better fits the totem animal of Judah. The traitor in this version is called Judas, which means that it was probably edited together after 70 CE since the name Judas most likely derives from Judas the Galilean, the Zealot resistance leader who brought about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. The name Iscariot is usually translated to mean a person from Kerioth but the Encyclopedia Britannica assocaited it with the word Sicarii, meaning “dagger-man” or “assassin”. Price instead cites Bertil Gärtner, who links it to the Hebrew Ishqarya, meaning “falsehood” or “betrayer”. A similar Jewish rebellion in the second century CE by Simon bar Kokhba brought about a similar defeat and punishment, and if the ill-will towards that “false Messiah” is any indication of what was said of Judas of Galilean, then it would not be any surprise as to understanding the reason why that name became synonymous with betrayal
Anonymous
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>G.R.S. Mead noted that the name Helene was philologically interchangeable with Selene and that from there that Salome was translated into Selene. It is clear from the context of many story elements that the final editors of both Life of Jesus and Life of Christ identified Helene with Salome, although a footnote in Life of Christ also seems to confuse her with the first century CE queen, Helena of Abiadne. Mead also noted that his identification was problematic because the queen acted as if her Jewish advisers belonged to a religion she knew nothing about. As far as I know, no one so far has suggested the she could be the Seleucid and Ptolemic queen of Syria, Cleopatra Selene, who, despite the Judean-centered setting the Toledot stories present, would have been closer to Jesus’ Galilean jurisdiction than Salome >The Gospel of John tells a story about Jesus meeting a Samaritan woman by the Well of Jacob and is able to prophesize that she had been married five times. Robert M. Price has suggested that the five marriages could be a reference to Simon Magus’ companion, Helene, who had formerly been a prostitute, and like Simon, a Samaritan. However, this episode may have an even earlier connection to the Toledot story because, 1) Cleopatra Selene owned the Stone of Jacob, and 2) Cleopatra Selene did have five husbands since the two kingdoms she represented at different points in her life were constantly being forced to forge new alliances due to the political instability. Then, just as Cleopatra Selene became confused as Salome and Helena of Abiadne, the Johannine editors confused her with Simon’s companion Helene, and made her a Samaritan >Since both Selene and Salome both ruled during the final days of crumbling empires that would eventually be conquered by the Romans, it would make sense for story writers to romanticize personal conversations Jesus might have had with them, comparing their fallen worldly kingdoms to Jesus’ heavenly kingdom
Anonymous
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>>19375141 Also, Salome III/'Philo' was also 'Antonia Caenis', Vespasian's mistress and essentially empress of Rome.
Anonymous
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>Saying 61 from the apocryphal Gospel of Thomas seems to have this kind of “Queen’s earthly kingdom dies while Jesus’ spiritual kingdom lives” myth in mind when it portrays Jesus telling a woman named Salome “Two will rest upon a bed; one will die, the other live.” Salome replies, “Who are you, man, whose son? You have mounted my bed and eaten from my table”, to which Jesus says: “I am he who comes forth from the one who is equal; I was given of the things of my Father.” Salome replies, “I am your disciple” and Jesus says: “Therefore I say: If he is equal, he is full of light, but if he is divided, he will be full of darkness.” Thus, Jesus is “mounting” Salome’s fallen kingdom of darkness, division, and inequality and replacing it with a spiritual kingdom of light, unity, and equality >It is often said that these Talmudic and Toledot stories are just rabbinic reactions to Christians, but it is very hard to imagine that some rabbis would read one of the gospels and decide to come up with this first century BCE narrative as a retort. Why put Jesus earlier in time and make Christianity older? Why would they leave out any trace of the pacifistic philosophy and apocalypticism and then expand on the “Escape to Egypt” story, putting it into a far more historical context? Clearly, story elements such as hiding Jesus’ body and the gardener motif are minor details far too deep within the fabric of the gospel narrative for Jewish satirists to pick up and elaborate on while at the same time ignoring all the far more important plot elements and theological positions from the Greek-written canonical gospels from the Bible
Anonymous
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>Six Reasons Why the Talmudic Tradition that Jesus Lived in the First Century BCE is Older Than the Gospel Tradition >1) In Matthew 28:12, the Jewish chief priests and elders, after hearing the report from the Roman guards that two angels had come down and released Jesus from the tomb, conspire to devise a story about how Jesus’ disciples moved his body to trick everyone into thinking that Jesus rose from the dead and the Toledot story involves Yeshu’s betrayer, a gardener, moving his body to his garden, tricking the disciples into thinking Yeshu rose from the dead. The gospel could only be citing a Toledot or related story. The Toledot tradition that Jesus is buried in his betrayer's garden later caused the betrayer to become associated with a “Field of Blood”. The authors of Matthew 27:6 and Acts 1:18 then invented contradicting explanations for how this “Field of Blood” ended up associated with Judas. Tertullian references a Jewish belief in the early 200s that the betrayer had moved Jesus' body from his garden to stop the followers of Jesus from stepping on his lettuces, just as depicted in the Toledot (De Spetaculis 100.30.3; Mead 182) >2) In the Gospel of John, Mary Magdalene confuses the gardener with Jesus as if they are twins who looked alike, which is a parallel to the fact that certain dualistic Gnostics like the Sethians and Cainites portrayed Judas as the “twin” of Jesus. The final editor of the Gospel of John appears to have been at particular pains to distinguish Judas Iscariot from Judas Thomas “not Iscariot” (the name Thomas meaning “the Twin”), like in 14:22. Although none of the Gnostic gospels describe Judas as a gardener, the fact that the Toledot identifies Judas with the gardener shows that the gospel scene of Mary Magdalene confusing Jesus for the gardener was inspired by the earlier motif that the “twin”/betrayer of Jesus was a gardener
Anonymous
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>3) Biblical scholar Delbert Burkett, in his groundbreaking work, From Proto-Mark to Mark, posits the idea that the Synoptic gospels and Stephen's trial in Acts of the Apostles used a “Sanhedrin Trial Source”. Burkett points out that this lost source tradition portrayed Jesus as being executed by fellow Jews without Roman assistance and could possibly be related to Yeshu in the Talmud. Separating the “Sanhedrin Trial Source” from the gospel context also solves the problem of how the Sanhedrin could have been expected to be assembled at night since the Toledot context has Yeshu being captured and tried during the daytime. The tradition of execution by Jews also better fits with 1 Thessalonians 2:15 and Mara Bar Serapion. In the Gospel of Peter, Jesus is condemned to death by both Herod and Pilate, not individually, as is described in the gospels of Luke and John, but together at the same time, which is rather implausible historically. Even more strikingly, Jesus is crucified by “the people” without any mention of Roman assistance, after which they get worried about the sudden darkness that comes about because of the Biblical law about leaving a condemned criminal's body up all night. After Jesus dies, Roman soldiers do get involved to guard the body. In the book, The Cross That Spoke, John Dominic Crossan suggested there are interpolations in the text, and while he still believes that Herod and Pilate played a role in the earliest core document, which he calls the Cross Gospel, an execution carried out by the people and not soldiers suggests the earliest version of the apocryphal gospel story may have been set in the first century BCE when public executions would have been carried out by Jews
Anonymous
Anonymous
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>4) In the Toledot stories, Yeshu disguises himself by wearing the same disguise as three hundred of his followers and so his betrayer signals which one is Yeshu is by bowing at him. In the gospel stories, the elders need Judas to signal undisguised and easily-recognizable Jesus among a few disciples using a kiss because it is dark. The story element in which a sign by a traitor is necessary to identify Jesus makes more sense in the context of the Toledot story of Yeshu disguising himself (Zindler 390n) >5) The Gospel of Thomas says that there were 24 prophets, not 12 disciples, who spoke about Jesus (Saying 52). A suggestion made by Jesus Seminar scholar Robert Funk is that this refers to the 24 books of the Old Testament, but the books are not divided by one prophet per book. More likely it refers to the 12 apostles mentioned in the New Testament plus 12 earlier apostles from the first century BCE mentioned in the Toledot as “bad offspring of foul ravens”, who came and taught after Yeshu’s five disciples were killed >6) In Mark 8:19-21, Jesus asks the disciples the exact numbers involved when he broke 5 loaves for 5,000 people, leaving behind 12 baskets, and then broke 7 loaves for 4,000 people, leaving behind 7 baskets. By asking his disciples to focus on the exact numbers, the gospel author presents his readers with a specific numerological puzzle. The number 12 presumably refers to the 12 apostles. The number 7 more than likely refers to the 7 Grecian Jewish “table waiters” of Acts 6:5 that church historians would later dub the Seven Deacons. This would leave another group of five who would have needed to appear before the 12 apostles, which can only be the 5 disciples of Yeshu from the Talmud
Anonymous
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>Many Biblical scholars have attempted to assume that the Greek gospels were based on earlier Aramaic gospels. Other Biblical scholars have criticized this assumption because there is little to no proof. Yet the supreme irony is that there always were Aramaic writings about Jesus, reasonably early and available in the most popular Jewish theological work after the Bible, and yet no leading New Testament scholar of the twentieth century ever considered analyzing them beyond a superficial glance for historical purposes. Even among Talmudic scholars and Biblical scholars who advocate looking for a more “Jewish” Jesus, the Talmud and Toledot are in general silently dismissed. Many scholars, including Zindler, point to the fact that there are variations of the text that leave out the name of Yeshu, indicating it was inserted in later. However, there is a long Jewish tradition of leaving out the name of a heretic or an enemy so that his name would vanish from history. Whether the name was inserted or taken out, there were some ancient Jews who knowingly dated Jesus to the first century BCE >The fact that almost no Talmudic scholars accept the Yeshu statements to relate to the historical Jesus, does tarnish the credibility of a historical Jesus based on the Talmud and Toledot. But this does not appear to have been the case before modern times. The 1887 book, Medieval Jewish Chronicles, by Adolph Neubaueri, quotes a twelfth-century Spanish historian named Abraham ben Daud as saying not some but all the Jewish history writers of the time identified Jesus as the student of Joshua ben Perachiah and said that he lived during the time of Alexander Jannaeus. The reason this is not the case today can be attributed not to an accident of history but a purposeful censorship by the Roman Catholic Church. Along with censorship, Christian repression also led many Jewish copyists to self-censor, and so many copies of the Talmud have the passages missing
Anonymous
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>Things were not any better when Martin Luther got his hands on the story, as he used it to help slander Jews with anti-Semitic tracts. Many Christians, including Martin Luther, used the Toledot story to stir up anti-Semitism, typically leaving out the part about Yeshu living in a different century. It should perhaps be no surprise then that Judaism before the late twentieth century had evolved into a religion with collective amnesia when it came to Jesus >Indicative of the suffocating nature of the censorship, there were notes discovered hidden within two copies of the Toledot, originally written in Slavic Hebrew and then translated into German, that warns its Jewish readers that because of the Christian ban on the Toledot, it was to be copied only by hand and never printed. Neither should it be read in front of Christians or anyone frivolous enough to gossip about it. Rabbinic writings from the 1100s to 1900s confirm that the Talmud and Toledot were censored by the Church to keep Christians from learning about this other Jesus. So, as sensationalist as it sounds, the story of the first century BCE Jesus is a full-on Da Vinci Code-style conspiracy theory. That does not necessarily make it historically true. Even if the Talmudic tradition is earlier, Jewish Talmudists could possibly have adopted one historically untrue myth only to have it repressed by another historically untrue myth. I will go more into what I think is historically true of the first century BCE Jesus later. But it does go to show that we should not take the unpopularity of an idea on its face if there had to be a lot of repression to make the idea unpopular
Anonymous
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>The Gospel of Matthew Subtly Admits Jesus' “Illegitimate” Birth >One of the parallels that can be drawn between the Jesus of the canonical gospels from the Bible and the Jewish conception of Jesus from the Talmud and the Toledot is the narrative that Jesus was born fatherless. The shortest and earliest gospel, the Gospel of Mark, only speaks of the family of Jesus as being his mother and brothers, and there is nothing in the gospel about Jesus being born of a virgin. The character of Joseph, the “step-father” to Jesus, only appears in the gospels of Matthew and Luke. According to the anti-Christian philosopher Celsus, as well as certain passages in the Talmud and Toledot, the real father of Jesus was a man named Panthera, or Pantera. The Toledot also sometimes uses another name, ben Stada, although there appears to have been some confusion as to who Stada was exactly: >“Ben Stada was Ben Pandera. Rab. Chisda [d. 309 CE] said: The husband was Stada, the lover Pandera. (Another said:) The husband was Paphos ben Jehuda; Stada was his mother; (or) his mother was Miriam, the women's hairdresser; as they would say at Pumbeditha, Setath da (i.e. she was unfaithful) to her husband.” -Shabb. 104b, G.R.S. Mead Translation >According to the Toledot, Panthera was a Jewish vagabond, but Celsus, writing around 177 CE, instead identifies him as a Roman soldier. A statue monument in Germany dedicated to a Tiberius Julius Abdes Panthera, born in Sidon in Phoenician in 9 CE attests to it being a real name used by a Roman soldier, as Zindler has pointed out (139). Both Epiphanius and the eighth-century monk John of Damascus claimed that Panthera was a surname of one of Jesus' grandfathers, although they differed on whether it was from the paternal or maternal line. Some Biblical scholars have suggested that “Panthera” was a pun on the Greek word for “virgin”, parthenos, but the two words do not come from the same root
Anonymous
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>An analysis of how the name Mary is used in the gospels may help shed some light on the question of Jesus' parentage. There are at least three major characters named Mary in the Bible: Jesus' mother Mary, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the sister of Martha. In the gospels, Mary Magdalene is a follower of Jesus. In the canonical gospels, she plays the role of the woman who finds the empty tomb. Her name is typically believed to derive from the city of Magdala, as in Mary of Magdala, with Magdala being rooted in the Hebrew word migdal, meaning tower. The Gospel of Luke describes her as one of many sinful women with a side note that Jesus had at some point in his overlooked past removed seven demons from her. Other than that, the gospels treat her as a non-entity >But Mary Magdalene plays a more important role in some Gnostic gospels. The Gnostic Gospel of Philip suggests that Jesus often kissed Mary, causing some books like The Da Vinci Code to theorize that Mary Magdalene was really Jesus' wife. In the Gnostic Gospel of Mary, Mary unveils secret knowledge about seven powers of wrath, which probably inspired the idea of the seven demons being exorcized from her. Most scholars identify this Mary with Mary Magdalene but some instead identify her with Jesus' mother. Peter plays a villain in this gospel, incredulous that Jesus would tell such a thing to a woman, but the disciple Levi reveals that Jesus loved Mary more than the rest of the apostles. Catholic theologian Ramon K. Jusino has even suggested that Mary Magdalene was the original “Beloved Disciple” in the Gospel of John before she was changed by an editorial update into the anonymous male disciple in the current canonical version
Anonymous
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>>19375112 Kek kikes still seething over christ. Christ is king.
Anonymous
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>In the Gnostic Pistis Sophia, the feminine incarnation of Wisdom, Sophia, is oppressed by a seven-headed dragon in the same way that Satan as the Red Dragon in the Book of Revelation stalks after the “woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet”, who is pregnant with child, and thus symbolic of the Virgin Mary. The apocalypse tells how the newborn is snatched by God or an angel before the great battle with Michael and the angels. The story is similar to a Greek myth about the newborn god Apollo shooting dead the dragon Python as it chased his mother Leto, the daughter of the sun and the moon. A Jesus sect known as the Montanists, led by a former priest of Apollo, were known to have used the Gospel of John and so may have helped shape the editing of John's apocalypse >In the Toledot, Mary Magdalene is not the wife of Yeshu but his mother. The Toledot translates the Aramaic name Magdala as hairdresser, rooted in the word gadal, to weave. At the time, this was a popular euphamism for a prostitute. The Toledot's etymology for Magdala is somewhat corroborated by a tenth century Arabic-Syriac lexicon that substantiates the identification, saying the name Magdalene was given to her because her hair was braided. Since the Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene both assume the role of the metaphysical fallen Sophia in Gnostic literature, it's possible to see how Mary the hairdresser could have been fictionalized by the Gnostics as the symbol for fallen wisdom, becoming the spiritual wife to Jesus as the Logos. Following this background, it is easy to see how later Literalist editors adopted the spiritual mother/wife Mary figure and, being confused by the dual role, split her as being a completely different person. Just as the early figure of Judas was split into Judas Iscariot and Judas Thomas in later gospels, so too did Mary Magdala split into the Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene
Anonymous
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>Modern scholars have largely assumed that the accusation that Jesus was an “illegitimate” memzer was just a fictional reaction against the Christian claim from the gospels of Matthew and Luke that Jesus was born of a virgin, but there is a rarely discussed admission in the Gospel of Matthew that the accusation of adultery was not reactionary myth. The beginning of Matthew's gospel has a genealogy that lists 40 men but only four women. As religious studies scholar James Tabor and others have pointed out, those four women are not the most important are the most memorable women from the Hebrew Bible. Tamar, Rahab, Ruth and Bathsheba are instead cited as controversial figures because of their scandalous sexual reputations from the Bible. In three of the cases, excluding Rahab, the sinful sex act itself is instrumental in bringing about the current genealogy being listed. So the whole point of including the names of those four women is to try and mitigate the damage from the accusation that Jesus could not be the Messiah because he was a memzer, but rather than defend Mary's virginity, the genealogy implicitly admits that Jesus was “born in sin” while reminding the reader that there were other important women from the Bible who were less than pure but were nevertheless important to the history of the Jewish people
Anonymous
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>The Evolution of the Virgin Birth Narrative in the Gospel of Matthew >If the author of Matthew admits that Jesus was born a memzer, why would the same author also claim that Mary was a virgin? One could argue the fictional virginity was meant to be taken as symbolic. But I think the answer to that question is that it was not the same author. The Gospel of Matthew was known to have been used by two other “heretical” Jewish sects dedicated to Jesus: the Ebionites and Cerinthians. The Ebionites, a name that means “the poor ones”, continued to follow the laws of Moses from the Hebrew Torah and revered James the Just, which the Epistle to the Galatians calls the “brother of the Lord”. Many Biblical scholars, including Tabor, as well as Jewish scholars like Robert Eisenman and Hyam Maccoby, believe that the Ebionites represented an earlier form of Jewish Christianity that followed the ideas not only of Jesus but also John the Baptist and Jesus' brother James and that the Ebionites were against Paul and the Greek Hellenistic reforms to Christianity, such as adding a bread and wine Eucharist symbolizing the body and blood of a dying-and-rising god, which the scholars of this camp usually attribute to him. The Ebionites also believed in an Adoptionist Christology, meaning they believed that Jesus had been born to two parents but that he became unified with Christ when he was “adopted” by the Holy Spirit at his baptism, and this Christ spirit left him just before he died. This belief was reflected in their version of the Gospel of Matthew being much closer to its primary source, the Gospel of Mark, in that it contained neither the genealogy nor the virgin birth narrative
Anonymous
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I'm going to be genuinely controversial here and go against the grain. My theory is that there are no cabals of powerful men micro-managing or controlling world events. The "new world order" should be taken literally. its a novel (new) pan-national (world) structure (order). Its a fairly value-free description of increased inter-connectivity between nation-states that is based on technological developments and liberalisation of financial and trade institutions. Of course some people have more power and influence than others, and some a lot more, but the ideas in most conspiracy theories place way too much faith in the abilities of powerful men to control world-events, which are inherently chaotic/anarchic.
Anonymous
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>The Cerinthians, supposedly named after a heretical teacher named Cerinthus, were another Jewish Adoptionist sect that was also semi-Gnostic. Like the Gnostics, they believed that the world had been created by a Demiurge who was not the highest god, but unlike the Gnostics they believed the Demiurge was good, equivalent to the Logos or “Word” of God referenced by both the Gospel of John and the Jewish Middle Platonist Philo. According to Epiphanius, the Cerinthians only used the Gospel of Matthew, but he also said that there were also anti-Logos followers of Jesus in Anatolian Phrygia who claimed that the Gospel of John had been written by Cerinthus. That certainly would not be true of our canonical version of John but my own speculation is that a Cerinthian wrote an earlier version of John hypothesized by the famed Lutheran theologian and Biblical scholar Rudolf Bultmann called the Signs Gospel. The Cerinthians appear to have combined Jewish and Platonic ideas together, such as having an Endtime eschatology consist of not one but two apocalypses, the first one ushering in the Jewish idea of the thousand-year reign of Christ on earth centered in Jerusalem with the Platonic idea of the second apocalypse consisting of souls exiting their bodies and going up to heaven. This perfectly matches up with the dual-resurrection eschatology and Logos terminology in the Apocalypse of John (Rev. 20), indicating that our version of that book also had a Cerinthian editor. This Cerinthian “Premilliannialism” was ultimately declared heretical by the Council of Nicaea in 325. The Cerinthian version of the Gospel of Matthew included the genealogy but, following an Adoptionst Christology, it did not include the virgin birth narrative
Anonymous
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>The canonical version of the Gospel of Matthew has several connections to the city of Antioch and to the apostle Peter, who the Epistle to the Galatians associates, using Peter's alias Cephas, with Antioch. One example is Matthew 17:24-27, Peter asks Jesus about the Temple tax and Jesus tells Peter that he will find a fish with a stater coin worth four drachma in its mouth to pay the tax for both of them, and stater coin was only worth four drachma in Antioch. Another example is that the epistles attributed to Ignatius of Antioch also appear to reflect the tradition from Matthew. In Mark 8:27-38, Peter is the first to identify Jesus as the Christ but then Jesus tells his disciples to tell no one about this, but characteristically of Mark's habit of treating the top three disciples as confused flatterers, Jesus tells his disciples that he is going to die and Peter rebukes him, causing Jesus to say to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are thinking not as God thinks, but as human beings do.” In contrast to that, Matthew 16:13-20, Jesus tells Peter that it was God and not “flesh and blood” that revealed this to him, then Jesus announces that that he will build his church on the cornerstone of Peter, whose name means rock. The statement that was originally meant to legitimize the Antioch church but was later adapted by the Catholic Church to associate Peter's church with Rome. Acts 11:26 concurs that the church was first called Christian in Antioch but insinuates it had more to do with Barnabas and Saul/Paul. The Epistle to the Galatians and the earlier Toledot story The Jewish Life of Jesus also portrays Cephas/Peter as trying to walk a line between James' Jewish apocalyptic sect centered in Jerusalem and Paul's Hellenized mystery religion from Alexandria and Anatolia
Anonymous
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>The canonical version of Matthew best reflects this attribute of combining both traditions: it combines the Jewish concern for keeping the Law (5:18) with the Hellenistic attribute of a high Christology in which Jesus is part of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (28:19), and moves from the Jewish mission to save only the lost sheep of Israel (15:24) to the Hellenistic mission to making disciples of all nations (28:19) >The Antioch editor of the Gospel of Matthew tried to connect the Hellenistic idea of the virgin birth to Jewish scripture by citing Isaiah as prophesizing the virgin birth of Jesus when he said “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.” However, this quotation comes from the Greek Septuagint version of Isaiah, which uses the Greek word parthenos, or “virgin”, while the Masoretic and Dead Sea Scroll versions of Isaiah use the Hebrew word almah, meaning “young woman”, which better matches the original context from the text that it was a sign for king Ahaz of Judah, possibly that his son Hezekiah would be born >Using these three versions of Matthew, we can map out the evolution of the Virgin Birth narrative: >1) The Ebionites use a version of the Gospel of Mark as a source to construct the earliest version of Matthew, which, like Mark, says Jesus was born to two parents and was adopted by the Holy Spirit to become the Christ >2) The Cerinthians react to the accusation that Jesus was a memzer by adding a genealogy to Ebionite Matthew that highlights four women of questionable purity >3) The Church of Peter in Antioch adds the Virgin Birth narrative to Cerinthian Matthew and tries to tie it to a Jewish prophecy from the Greek Septuagint version of Isaiah
Anonymous
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>Although Biblical scholars more often than not take the church father's word that it was the Ebionites or the Cerinthians, or in the case of Luke the Marcionites, who cut out the genealogy and the virgin birth narratives to suit their own theologies, the narrative conflict between the defense of the Jesus' memzer status and the Virgin Birth narrative permits a more Deconstructionist perspective. The Gospel of Matthew has many Jewish elements in it so it makes sense that it would have an origin in Jewish Jesus sects. Following this timetable, we can conclude that the accusation of memzer came first, that it was at first defended as true but irrelevant by the Cerinthians, and that finally it was denied and mythologized as a Virgin Birth by what might have been the first Proto-Orthodox church
Anonymous
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>The Synoptic Problem: Complicated >The Gospel of Matthew was not the only gospel to go through multiple sectarian updates before being canonized into the version that we are familiar with. Many of the same sayings and stories that are in the Gospel of Mark are repeated, more often than not word-for-word, in the gospels of Matthew and Luke, and there are word-for-word sayings that are shared between Matthew and Luke that are not in Mark. The relationship that Mark, Matthew and Luke have in sharing so much of the same content is known in Biblical scholarship as the Synoptic Problem, named for the first three gospels, called Syn-optic by Biblical scholars because the three gospels see through one eye >Many Biblical scholars believe that the earliest gospels that spread among Christians contained only the sayings of Jesus. This belief is especially prevalent among scholars like Crossan and the Jesus Seminar, who see the historical Jesus as a Hellenistic Jewish sage who preached a counter-cultural philosophy of social justice. This idea originally came about because of the way the sayings of Jesus common to Matthew and Luke are distributed into different contexts. Scholars assumed Matthew and Luke must have copied from a now-lost common source, dubbed Q for the German word Quelle, meaning “source”. Some but not all of these scholars also assumed non-Q sayings used exclusively by Matthew and other non-Q sayings used exclusively by Luke also came from hypothetical saying gospels, usually dubbed M and L after the names of the gospels that used them as sources. Both the Two-Source Hypothesis (Mark and Q) and the Four-Source Hypothesis (Mark, Q, M, L) were established by the British Biblical scholar Burnett Hillman Streeter in 1924, but only through literary criticism. There was no physical evidence that proto-gospels containing only wisdom sayings actually existed until the Gospel of Thomas was discovered in Nag Hammadi, Egypt in 1945
Anonymous
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>Although many of the sayings in the Coptic Gospel of Thomas were shown to have Gnostic additions to them, the core of the sayings appeared to compliment the counter-cultural sayings in the Synoptic gospels, providing a more solid foundation for the Two-Source and Four-Source Hypothesis. Most modern Biblical scholars now believe that the primary sources used to create the gospels of Matthew and Luke were Mark and Q. But there were also some alternative hypotheses that did not include the use of any hypothetical documents. The Farrer Hypothesis instead posited that the author of Luke simply used Mark and Matthew as sources but decided to only copy sayings and not any narrative elements unique to Matthew. The Griesbach Hypothesis suggested that Luke copied Matthew and that Mark wrote a shorter synopsis-gospel using Matthew and Luke as sources. The Hypothesis named after St. Augustine states that Mark used Matthew as a source and Luke used Mark and Matthew as sources. But by the late twentieth century, these alternative hypotheses were mostly abandoned >In the 1980s, a Canadian professor of religion John S. Kloppenborg divided Q into three layers of tradition: Q1) The earliest layer of counter-cultural wisdom axioms similar to the Greek Cynic philosophy of abandoning wealth, power, and social conventions; Q2) a secondary layer of apocalyptic pronouncements of End Time judgment on those outside the Jesus movement, and Q3) a final layer of miscellaneous John the Baptist sayings and the “Satan's three temptations in the desert” story. Crossan, The wisdom sayings were believed to go back to the historical Jesus while the apocalyptic metaphors were ascribed to a later editor who had grown bitter at former followers that had fallen away after waiting too long for Jesus to return
Anonymous
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>This allowed the Jesus Seminar and like-minded “Liberal Jesus” scholars to further solidify Jesus as a Cynic sage who never pronounced embarrassing End Time judgments of the world's end and hellfire >But as Q scholars went deeper into the hypothetical subdivisions of a hypothetical source, the Farrer Hypothesis made a sudden comeback in a backlash of skepticism towards Q at the turn of the century, largely thanks to the internet presence of Mark Goodacre, a student of Michael Goulder, Farrer's primary student. One of the central planks of the Farrer Hypothesis is that there are “minor agreements” between Matthew and Luke against Mark that are not sayings from Jesus (the parts that Kloppenborg and others relegated to Q3), so Occam's Razor states that the simplest solution is usually the correct one: Luke used Mark as his primary source but took some sayings and events from Matthew as well. Now, the “minor agreements” are definitely a problem, and simply assigning them to one last update of Q is a poor solution since they would make little sense in that context. But there are far more examples in which Matthew and Luke expanded in different directions where Mark left off as well as many examples in which Luke is shown to have the more primitive version of a verse than Matthew, such as in the Lord's Prayer (Luke 11:2; Matthew 6:9). The problem is not that the Two Source and Four Source Hypotheses are too complicated. The problem is that they are too simple >Despite the fact that the Synoptic gospels have so much content in common, there are also hundreds of derivations in the order of events such that Matthew and Luke appear to be jumping around a lot for no discernable reason. The Two/Four Source Hypotheses have more explanatory power because they provide reasons for the disorder: Matthew and Luke were switching between Mark and Q/M/L. More sources equals more complexity in weaving them together
Anonymous
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>The Farrer Hypothesis is not providing the simplest explanation for a simple problem. Rather, it is trying to answer a complex problem with a simple answer by delegating the inherent complexity of the problem to the supposedly inscrutable minds of Matthew and Luke so as not to have to necessitate the complexity and uncertainty of hypothetical sources. The fact is that we know there were dozens of variant versions of the gospels that were floating around among the many different Jesus sects of the second century that inherited their gospels from other sects so there is no reason to believe that the ones that got canonized were the earliest >In 1983, the German Biblical scholar Helmut Koester advanced the complexity of the Two/Four Source Hypothesis further by suggesting that Luke had used an earlier version of Mark that did not include the “Bethsaida Section” in Mark 6:45-8:26. The section begins and ends in the village of Bethsaida and consists mostly of loose retellings of an earlier narrative arc of miracle stories. Koester also suggested that our canonical Mark was a censored version of a still-later version of the Gospel of Mark called Secret Mark which included a resurrection story similar to the Lazarus story in the Gospel of John, based on controversial evidence supposedly discovered by the Biblical scholar Morton Smith in the Mar Saba monastery in the West Bank in 1958. Crossan accepted Koester's Bethsaida/Secret Mark model but also included the Cross Gospel, another hypothetical source text covering the Passion of Jesus' execution based on Crossan's comparison of the four Passion narratives in the gospels with the apocryphal Gospel of Peter from Nag Hammadi >Yet even Crossan's model, with all of its unprovable hypothetical texts, turns out to be not complicated enough
Anonymous
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>By far the strongest model for the development of the Synoptic gospels ever presented by Biblical scholarship comes from the extensive proofs laid out by Delbert Burkett in his 2004 books, Rethinking the Gospels, Vol. 1: From Proto-Mark to Mark and Vol. 2: The Unity and Plurality of Q. In Vol. 1, Burkett shows that even more instances of what originally appeared to be random jumping around in the Two/Four Source and Koester models is actually the result of editors switching between different source texts, combining smaller gospels into larger gospels, and not just by Matthew and Luke but also Mark. Although the idea of a pre-canonical Ur-Mark had been around since the late 1700s, Burkett is the first to provide compelling technical graphs to map out how multiple Proto-Mark gospels were weaved together by each of the Synoptic evangelists >The Two Source, Four Source, and Farrer Hypotheses all accept “Markan Priority” because from a narrative and theological perspective, Matthew and Luke build their gospels on top of Mark, in that their gospels are longer with more teachings and miracle stories and more advanced theologies, but from the perspective of sentence structure, there are actually a large number parts in Mark's gospel that combine phrases found only in Matthew with phrases found only in Luke in the equivalent pericope. Taken by itself, this might seem like evidence for the Griesbach Hypothesis, but if we grant Markan Priority to be the certainty that Biblical scholarship has shown it greatly deserves, then the only other possibility is that Mark conflated a Proto-Mark source that Matthew used with a Proto-Mark source that Luke used. Burkett calls them Proto-Mark A and Proto-Mark B
Anonymous
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>Here are some examples: >Mark 1:32: “When evening came [Matt. 8:16], when the sun set [Luke 4:40], they were bringing to him all the ill and the demonized [Matt. 4:24; 8:16]. And the whole city was gathered at the door. And he healed many ill with various diseases. And he cast out many demons. And he did not allow the demons to speak, because they knew him [Luke 4:41] >Mark 1:42: “The leprosy left him [Luke 5:13] and it was cleansed [Matt. 8:3].” >Mark 3:7: “And Jesus with his disciples [Luke 6:17] withdrew [Matt. 12:15] to the sea [Luke 5:1]. And a large crowd followed from Galilee [Matt. 4:25; Luke 5:17] and from Judea and from Jerusalem [Matt. 4:25; Luke 5:17, 6:17] and from Idumea and across the Jordan [Matt 4:25] and around Tyre and Sidon [Luke 6:17]. A large crowd, hearing what he was doing, came to him [Luke 5:1, 6:18]. And he told his disciples that a boat should wait for him because of the crowd, lest they crush him [Luke 5:3]. For he healed many, with the result that those who had afflictions would fall upon him that they might touch him [Luke 6:19]. And the unclean spirits when they saw him, fell before him and cried out saying, “You are the Son of God.” [Luke 4:41]. And he ordered them repeatedly not to make him known [Matt. 12:16; Luke 4:41].” >Mark 5:2: “When he got out of the boat, immediately a man from the tombs [Matt. 8:28] with an unclean spirit met him, and he had his dwelling in the tombs [Luke 8:27] >Mark 5:12: “Send us into the pigs [Matt 8:31], so that we may go into them [Luke 8:32].” >Mark 5:28: “For she said, ‘If I touch even his garments, I will be healed [Matt. 9:21]. And immediately the fount of her blood dried up [Luke 8:44].” >Mark 5:30: “Turning around in the crowd [Matt. 9:22], he said ‘Who touched my garments?’ [Luke 8:45]” >Mark 5:34: “Go in peace [Luke 8:48], and be healed of your affliction [Matt. 9:22].”
Anonymous
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>Mark 5:38: “And he sees an uproar [Matt. 9:23] with people weeping and grieving greatly [Luke 8:52].” >Mark 5:37: “And he did not let anyone follow with him except Peter, James, and John… [Luke 8:51]. Throwing everyone out [Matt. 9:25], he took along the father and mother of the child [Luke 8:51] >Mark 6:30: “And the apostles gather to Jesus. And they reported [“apangello”; Matt 14:12] to him all the things they had done [Luke 9:10] and the things they had taught. And he says to them, “Come, you privately [Luke 9:10], to a deserted spot and rest for a little.” For there were many coming and going and they did not have time even to eat. And they went away in the boat to a deserted spot privately [Matt. 14:13].” >Mark 6:33: And they saw them going and many found out [Luke 9:11]. [“The crowds followed them.” -Matt. 14:13, Luke 9:11.] And on foot from all the cities [Matt. 14:13] they ran together there and preceded them. And getting out he saw a large crowd and felt compassion for them [Matt 14:14], because they were like sheep without a shepherd. And he began to teach them many things [~Luke 9:11]. [“And he healed their sick” -Matt 14:14; Luke 9:11.] >Mark 8:37: “A great [Matt. 8:24] storm of wind [Luke 8:23] came up, and the waves broke into the boat [Matt. 8:24] so that the boat was already filled up [Luke 8:23].” >Mark 14:12: “On the first day of the Festival [Matt. 26:17] of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb [Luke 22:7], Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?” [Matt. 26:17] So he sent two of his disciples [~Luke 22:8], telling them, “Go into the city [Matt. 26:18], and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you [Luke 22:10]. Follow him...” When evening came, Jesus arrived with the Twelve [Matt. 26:20].” (This pericope came from a contender of the Griesbach Hypothesis, Thomas Longstaff.)
Anonymous
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>One of the more compelling proofs that Burkett has shown is that Mark 9:17-27 actually combined one exorcism story found in Matt. 17:14 and Luke 9:38 with a different exorcism story from a now lost source. If you remove all of the text unique to Mark, you will find that the shaved off parts actually form a relatively complete, internally consistent story completely different than the one found in Matthew and Luke. The story in Matthew and Luke is about an “unclean spirit” that throws a boy into the fire and water and the lack of faith in Jesus' disciples. The story that Mark combined that one with is about an “unspeaking and mute spirit” and the lack of faith in the boy's father. Combining the two stories has also caused an internal inconsistency in which a crowd forms in Mark 9:25 despite the fact that the crowd was already there in 9:17. Mark 9:14-16 also uses a very high concentration of characteristically Markan language (“around them”, “arguing”, “immediately”, “they were astounded”, “running forward”, “they greeted”, “he asked”, “around you arguing”) that both Matthew and Luke omit. The words are also used by Matthew and Luke in non-Markan contexts so there is no reason to believe that Matthew or Luke disliked these words and chose to edit them out all 24 times that Mark uses them >These linguistic peculiarities of omitting Markan language are not limited that pericope either. Mark used the word “polus” (“much”) 58 times, of which Matthew fails to use the word or material 76% of the time and Luke fails to use it 84% of the time. Of the 13 times that Mark talks about Jesus looking around, the crowd moving around Jesus, Matthew appears to omit all 13 instances and Luke appears to omit 11 instances (3:5, 3:32, 3:34, 4:10, 5:32, 6:6, 6:36 9:8, 9:14, 10:23, 11:11, 3:32, 3:34)
Anonymous
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>Matthew and Luke both appear to omit all 9 instances where Mark uses the phrase “he began to teach”, “he taught them”, or “in his teaching”, and Matthew and Luke both appear to omit all 7 instances in which Jesus is trying to get privacy from the crowds (1:33, 1:45, 2:1, 3:20, 6:31, 7:24, 9:30) >Burkett's model helps make us understand that the gospels were not simply written by an author using one or two sources, but rather, the evangelists were typically using many different sources, switching around between them, causing rifts in the narrative that would be otherwise hard to explain as creative choices by the author. The gospels that we know about are only the ones that winners of history's theological battles allowed to survive. The earliest gospels were only sayings -- good tidings -- which is literally what the word gospel means. Narratives eventually creeped up around them and the sayings were given a context of Galilee in 30 CE. Mark took tiny phrases from two different Proto-Marks as well as other lost source texts and combined them to make denser word structures and even combined two exorcism stories into one. The original (Ebionite) author of Matthew did not use the Mark we know as a source but one of the two Proto-Marks and Lukan tradition received the other one. These later authors did not conflate passages but rather combined the smaller Proto-Mark episodes into larger story arcs, creating larger and larger texts. The combining of gospels did not stop with the four that are in the Bible. The mid-second century Christian philosopher and martyr Justin used a single lost source that he called the “Memoirs of the Apostles” that used verses that were conflations of sources also present in Matthew and Luke. A student of Justin's named Tatian harmonized all four gospels into a “super gospel” called the Diatessaron
Anonymous
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>There used to be many different versions of the gospels, although most of them appear to be earlier or later variations of the four canonical gospels we have in the Bible. Each of the four gospels was not written by one specific author but rather is a reposit of conflicting narratives that have been edited together and harmonized to smooth over the edges of voluminous number of revisions from centuries of interdenominational conflict. What would become modern Christian theology was only one of many second century CE Jesus sects that were co-evolving with one another, largely by the memetic selection of holy texts, first by how particular verses were combined in each sect's particular gospel, but with time graduating to how particular books were combined into each sect's particular canon. The irony of the Synoptic Problem is that the Four Source and Griesbach Hypothesis both turned out to be correct in their own ways. The construction of the gospels involved what was probably one of the most complex games of Telephone ever played
Anonymous
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>Where Did the Bible Come From? >It is perhaps not an accident that the church that won out by getting adopted by the fourth century Roman Emperor Constantine was the one to put a stop to the ongoing narrative construction of collaborative fiction by canonizing not one but four different gospels in the late second century, each one previously associated with a previously-established Jesus sect. Each gospel was originally meant to represent a different perspective but in uniting them, the church that eventually won out, the Apostolic Church, managed to corral the members of four different Jesus sects into one church. Most Jesus sects only used one gospel and most of them were constructed by conflating a multiplex of texts together. When Constantine's church historian looked back into the history of history of his church, it led towards two bishops from Anatolia who the disciple John supposedly converted, Polycarp of Smyrna and Papias of Hierapolis >The first known reference to a gospel comes from Papias, sometime between 95 and 120 CE. Eusebius, writing around 300 CE, quotes Papias as saying that Mark had written his gospel based on what Peter had told him, but not in any ordered way, and that Matthew had written his logia, or “sayings”, in an ordered arrangement in Hebrew, which was then interpreted by everyone else as best they could. Friedrich Schleiermacher, the German Biblical scholar who first hypothesized the Q source, believed that the Q sayings could be identified with this logia of Matthew and used that as the name of the source. Later scholars, however, dropped this label, believing that there was nothing substantial to differentiate it from other hypothetical sources like M or L, or even a source that has since been lost
Anonymous
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>But given that Q appears to have been a predominate source since it was used for two different gospels, the identification would provide an excellent explanation for how the Gospel of Matthew got its name: it was inherited from its source, which had originally been named after the disciple of Yeshu >Regardless of which sayings source if any the “Sayings of Matthew” refer to, the name of the lost text establishes that the earliest known disciple of Jesus referenced outside the gospels was Matthew, the only name among the Twelve that also appears as one of the original five disciples of Yeshu. Thus, one of the earliest written documents to quote Jesus may have originally been ascribed to one of his first century BCE disciples. All of the Biblical epistles fail to identify James, Cephas or John as disciples of a historical Jesus, with the exception of 2 Peter, which is generally accepted to be a forgery. None of the epistles except 2 Peter identifies Jesus as an itnerant preacher. The Epistle to the Hebrews says Jesus was executed outside the city gate but 1 Thessalonians says he was killed by Jews, not Romans. Only 1 Timothy, dated to the late second century, and the apocryphal epistles of Ignatius say that Jesus was executed by Pontius Pilate. According to the Epistle to the Galatians, James is a “pillar” and Cephas is an “apostle”. Given that each of the four gospels give different names for the Twelve, it is not far from reasonable to assume that the “disciples” were the names of important first- or second-century CE teachers as symbolic disciples in an allegorical conceit of fiction. For example, James would have represented the Ebionites who still followed the laws of Moses. Thomas would have represented the Gnostics who wrote gospels based on the twin brother of Jesus, Judas Thomas, a character split from Judas Iscariot to differentiate the Thomas Gnostics from Zealots who followed Judas the Galilean
Anonymous
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>Matthew probably represented a sect that read the Sayings of Matthew. Papias seems to use the term “disciple” in the same metaphorical way since he lists two different Johns and an otherwise unknown Ariston as “disciples of the Lord”. Assuming the Twelve are all real historical people, clues from the epistles and various apocrypha indicate that they probably originated come from different backgrounds, lived in different cities, and espoused contending theologies while competing against one another. The Biblical scholar Robert M. Price provides numerous examples of these contradicting theological traditions in his book, The Pre-Nicene New Testament >Most Biblical scholars, including Tabor, Eisenman and Maccoby, believe that the James referenced in the Epistle to the Galatians is the literal “brother of the Lord”, but there is no indication as to how literal the title was meant to be taken. The author, supposedly the apostle Paul, is shockingly hostile towards James and his followers in some places, calling them “false believers” and “spies” of the “circumcision group” who want to make his followers “slaves”, while in another place, he is completely deferential, assuming that if James disagrees with him that he would have “run his race in vain”. In one of the places where he is hostile, he makes it a point in 1:17 to say he did not receive any of his Jesus' teachings from any of the other apostles but from revelation. There is no attempt by the author to explain why his spiritual visions should be taken as equal or superior to James' or Cephas' knowledge of the historical Jesus, which implies that the original author assumed that James and Cephas had either received their information by revelation or by a more indirect tradition than personal knowledge. The Epistle of James itself introduces the author not as the brother of the Lord, but “servant of God and the Lord Jesus Christ”
Anonymous
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>The first canon of Biblical scripture came from the Marcionites, supposedly from Marcion himself. Marcion originally came from Sinope in Anatolia but he was said to have moved to Rome and donated a massive amount of money to the church before revealing his theology in 144 CE. The Marcionite canon consisted of a shorter version of Luke called the “Gospel of the Lord” and ten shorter versions of the Pauline epistles. All of the Hebrew books were left out. The vast majority of Biblical scholars, including skeptics like Earl Doherty who think Jesus never existed, believe that seven of the thirteen Pauline epistles are genuine. The 19th century German Protestant theologian Ferdinand Christian Baur and his Tübingen School of theology brought that number down to four (Romans, Galatians, and 1 & 2 Corinthians), but the 19th century German philosopher and theologian Bruno Bauer dismissed the authenticity of even these four core epistles (as well as the historicity of Jesus). Price makes excellent arguments in The Pre-Nicene New Testament for all of the Pauline Epistles being forgeries. For example, in 1 Corinthians 12, “Paul” claims to speak in tongues and yet at the same time disparages the practice and tries to put an end to it, or in Galatians 1:17, the writer presupposes the narrative in Acts 9 by saying he “returned” to Damascus without ever mentioning that he went there. Price provides strong evidence that the epistles were first forged by Marcionites and then later edited by to harmonize it with the Acts narrative >In the Marcionite version of Luke, Jesus was not born from humans at all but came down from heaven like an angel. Tertullian accused Marcion of interpreting scripture “with a pen-knife”, cutting the Gospel of Luke to make it fit into Marcion's own Stoic philosophy
Anonymous
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>The majority of Biblical scholars have taken his word for it, but other scholars such as Joseph B. Tyson have put forth the more likely suggestion that the two gospels were sister texts, both descended from a common proto-Luke gospel. For example, in Luke 4:23, Jesus while in his hometown of Nazareth mentions healings in Capernaum that he says everyone is aware of, yet he visits Capernaum for the first time in 4:31 and everyone is “amazed”, which seems to indicate that the Capernaum visit originally preceded his hometown visit just as it does in Mark and Matthew. In fact, Tertullilan quotes the first line of Marcion's gospel as being a combination of 3:1 and 4:31, describing how Jesus descended directly from heaven and went first to Capernaum, indicating that beginning of Marcion's gospel featured a narrative order that better reflected the original. When the villagers of Nazareth get angry at Jesus and try to throw him off a cliff, Jesus walks right through them in 4:30, again indicating that the original version of Luke portrayed Jesus as spirit who only looked human, a belief known as Docetism >The Marcionite concepts are based largely on the Hellenistic concepts of Stoicism, a philosophy based on virtue through knowledge that was heavily related to Cynicism. Acts 17:18 likewise operates in this milieu as it attempts to differentiate Christianity from the Greek philosophies by having Paul try to convert the Epicureans and Stoics he meets in Athens. As mentioned, Tertullian accused Marcion of editing the Gospel of Luke according to his own Stoic philosophy. Tertullian chided the Marcioinites and Gnostics for using Greek philosophy, asking “What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?”, apparently under the same impression as Philo that the concept of the divine Logos came from Moses
Anonymous
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>But when Tertullian actually gave an overview of the Marcionite gospel, the vast majority of changes were deletions, true to Tertullian's quip against Marcion about him interpreting the scriptures with a pen-knife. So how does an editor add a philosophy into a gospel by removing content? In fact, it is not just ancient heretics like Marcion but scholars like Crossan and the Jesus Seminar who read Jesus as a Cynic sage out of his Cynic/Stoic wisdom sayings, certainly not because of what was cut from the gospels by Stoic theologians like Marcion but perhaps because of what was added by them >Like the Marcionite gospel, the Marcionite epistles were shorter than the canonical ones. From my own analysis of the Pauline Epistles, the terminology clustered around the Stoic/Marcionite parts of the letters appears to be more primitive, using terms such as “Spirit” and “Christ Jesus” (or, more likely, “Chrest Jesus” originally), and the terminology clustered around the Septuagint readings is more orthodox, such as “Holy Spirit” and “Jesus Christ”. This would seem to indicate that the Church of Peter took the Marcionite epistles and adapted them to the theology of the Antioch Church, which, unlike the Marcionite Church, accepted the Greek Old Testament as canon, as can be seen in Matthew 5:17. As some scholars have noted, The author of Acts, likewise appear to have used two different sources: 1) a “We source” written in first person in the guise of travel log of Paul's sailing adventures; and, 2) an “Antioch Source” that starts suddenly in Antioch in Chapter 14 which portrays Saul as a subordinate to the apostle Barnabas along with Chapter 4, which highlights the importance of Peter. These most likely reflects contributions taken from first the Marcionites, and second the Antioch Church >By the time the Marcionite epistles were written, The Marcionites were trying to define their sect against the Judaistic sectarianism of James and the Ebionites
Anonymous
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>The Epistle to the Galatians was “the charter of Marcionism” and so took first place in the list instead of the Epistle to the Romans. Galatians portrays Paul upbraiding Peter in the city of Antioch sometime in the 50s. Antioch, as we have seen, is also the same city that the Church of Peter was located. The Church of Peter produced the Gospel of Matthew no earlier than 90s CE, including verses criticizing Pauline rejection of the law, saying “not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” So it does seems a little too symbolic for the one interaction we read about between two of the most important apostles to so well encapsulate the historic conflict between the churches of Peter and Paul in Antioch in the second century. The story of Paul personally quarrelling with Peter in Antioch is equivalent to reading a story that Abraham Lincoln got into a bar fight with Jefferson Davis over slavery on the Mason-Dixon Line 40 years before the Civil War. It sounds more like an origin story explaining the conflict between the two churches, which would mean it was more likely forged later >The church father Hippolytus actually compares this Marcion to the evangelist Mark and suggests that the Marcionites believed the two Marks were one and the same: >“When, therefore, Marcion or some one of his hounds barks against the Demiurge, and adduces reasons from a comparison of what is good and bad, we ought to say to them, that neither Paul the apostle nor Mark, he of the maimed finger, announced such (tenets). For none of these (doctrines) has been written in the Gospel according to Mark.”
Anonymous
Christianity is a jewish psyop that was invented by Cleopatra Selene III aka "Philo of Alexandria" and her two sons Pilny the Elder and Josephus.
Anonymous
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Looks like jannies don't like this subject, hue.
>>19375180 Now you will have to show your real flag if you want to continue posting.
Anonymous
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>itt crypto kikes tell me jew lizardtoids run the world
