/bant/ - International/Random

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Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 04:57:05 No.4212201 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>4212226 >>4212233 >>4212250 >>4212462

ITT we have a civil debate on 2 topics.
The first topic is UBI or Universal Basic Income.
What do you think are the pros?
What do you think are the cons?
The second topic is the discussion of the effectiveness of government social programs such as social security for the elderly, welfare for the underprivileged and single payer healthcare.
Do you think they work or not?
I'm interested to hear your opinions as I've heard the arguments for and against both.
Come chat. I have no bias one way or the other and am interested in raw opinions on the matters.

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k ID:jzfhNK1l Mon 26 Feb 2018 04:59:18 No.4212218 Report

Quoted By: >>4212227 >>4212250

I’ve got your UBI right here, pal

Heaven

Heaven ID:p4c2bZex Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:00:10 No.4212226 Report

Quoted By: >>4212230 >>4212250

>>4212201
I like free healthcare

Normie

Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:00:20 No.4212227 Report

Quoted By: >>4212250

>>4212218
Ebin post anon way to shit up a thread.
10/10 epic style

Normie

Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:00:54 No.4212230 Report

Quoted By: >>4212250 >>4212251 >>4212280

>>4212226
Why?
Have you considered who has to pay for the healthcare meaning the tax payer?
How does this affect your decision?

Anonymous

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Anonymous ID:EH7+hV+A Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:01:54 No.4212231 Report

Quoted By: >>4212234 >>4212250

Anonymous

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Anonymous ID:vATYzlxj Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:02:16 No.4212233 Report

Quoted By: >>4212236 >>4212250

>>4212201
I think healthcare should be free for everyone who contributes to society

Normie

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Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:02:18 No.4212234 Report

Quoted By: >>4212248 >>4212250

>>4212231
Every fucking time.....

Normie

Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:02:38 No.4212236 Report

Quoted By: >>4212245 >>4212250

>>4212233
Define contribute? I actually like this argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:vATYzlxj Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:03:53 No.4212245 Report

Quoted By: >>4212250 >>4212261

>>4212236
like has a job and shit like that, we dont want lazy ppl getting free stuff

Anonymous

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Anonymous ID:EH7+hV+A Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:04:13 No.4212248 Report

Quoted By: >>4212261

>>4212234

Chicanon

Chicanon ID:Toyn2shP Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:04:33 No.4212250 Report

Quoted By:

>>4212201
>>4212218
>>4212226
>>4212227
>>4212230
>>4212231
>>4212233
>>4212234
>>4212245
>>4212236
FUCKING KILL YOURSELF AN*mEFAG

Heaven

Heaven ID:p4c2bZex Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:04:34 No.4212251 Report

Quoted By: >>4212338

>>4212230
>why?
I don't have to pay to see a doctor
>have you considered bla bla tax payer?
its not like our tax gets spend building and maintaining its military so we can kick the crap out of some third world shithole every ten to twenty years
>how does this affect wa wa wa
I like free healthcare

Normie

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Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:06:42 No.4212261 Report

Quoted By: >>4212283 >>4212285

>>4212245
So if you're a productive employed member of society contributing towards paying taxes and production you should have the option to have government single payer healthcare?
I just want to make sure I understand.
>>4212248
Yeh boi that's a much better picture of me.
That file name doe. Should've put it as "muslim takes selfie after charlie hebdo".
At least I don't look like a hobo.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:llRkEGHv Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:08:52 No.4212275 Report

Quoted By: >>4212338

The first topic is UBI or Universal Basic Income.
>pros
stop over consumption model. stop producing vast amounts of cheap disposible commodities and aggressively marketing them. stop needlessly draining the planet through resource procurement for said process + transporting that shit round the place for extra monies which in turn ruins the ecosystem whilst enslaving millions so that a few people can live like gods. Start producing a sensible amount of things which relates to peoples need for them. not want. still account for the fact that people want things, make things that last not just providing a wage / salary / feeding into disposible commodity culture. provide means for people to enjoy their lives not just being stuck in their class, caste, society which wasn't their choice to begin with.
What do you think are the cons?
people will have difficulty adjusting to not being slaves
>social security for the elderly
if you're not an advocate for this you're literally a scumbag that wants people to suffer.
>welfare for the underprivileged
do it, make people hate you less while letting them get onto other peoples level. might get people to appreciate the level their on more through knowing that someone else is ecstatic to have the same opportunity.
>and single payer healthcare.
don't know what this is but if you don't have a healthcare system in your country then i feel truly sorry for how unfortunate you are.
>I'm interested to hear your opinions
I'll bet you aren't!

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:CvHlEVh6 Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:09:35 No.4212280 Report

Quoted By:

>>4212230
at least our taxes would go to something that actually affects our lives
also i’m for a ubi so long as it isn’t a livable amount

Anonymous

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Anonymous ID:EH7+hV+A Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:09:40 No.4212283 Report

Quoted By: >>4212338

>>4212261
Your wife gave them to me so I guess thats why theyre mildly flattering

Anonymous

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Anonymous ID:vATYzlxj Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:10:02 No.4212285 Report

Quoted By: >>4212338

>>4212261
>So if you're a productive employed member of society contributing towards paying taxes and production you should have the option to have government single payer healthcare?
yes

Normie

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Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:16:24 No.4212338 Report

Quoted By: >>4212378 >>4212380

>>4212251
>its not like our tax gets spend building and maintaining its military so we can kick the crap out of some third world shithole every ten to twenty years
Fair enough point. The allocation of tax payer money is abhorrent and idiotic. Too much money is spent on national defense.
What draw backs do you see with single payer like the incident in Cuba with overly worked hospitals?
I'm enjoying your semi serious input.
>>4212275
>stop over consumption model
This whole point is eloquent and interesting. I as well think UBI would be able to ween countries like the US off of consumerist mind set with only profit in mind and on the right track towards people living to their full potential.
>What do you think are the cons?
I think that there will be a large population of people (still minorities in comparison to the overall whole mind you) that will reject using the funds and available free time to improving themselves. While this argument may be flimsy I still think it's worth taking into account. Not to say it is compelling enough. Another issue I have is the cost to the tax payer but another anon has already addressed the misallocation of current tax revenue.
>don't know what this
This is the idea that the government should pay for your health insurance instead of you paying the insurance company. Just to be on the same page.
>I'll bet you aren't!
But I am.
>>4212283
Well thank you anon. I'm still unsure to why you keep these but I'd only ask you post the flattering ones. I'd rather be Sikh than /pol/ with the state of /pol/ right now.
>>4212285
This is something I can get behind. It keeps the idea of being productive but with the exchange that you will be taken care of for your efforts.
What about people who are disabled such as my brother with downs syndrome? Should they have to hold jobs in order to receive government assistance?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:vATYzlxj Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:23:55 No.4212378 Report

Quoted By: >>4212405

>>4212338
well ofc elderly and disable ppl would have excuse to not have jobs so ofc they will get free healthcare without having job

Anonymous

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Anonymous ID:EH7+hV+A Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:24:12 No.4212380 Report

Quoted By: >>4212401

>>4212338
I don't like the thought of bant being politics board, but since you guys look like you're having some good discussion ill fuck off. Just remember that any time that you make a thread like this ill be posting that image whenever I can. Political discussion never works on /bant/ because the users rarely take anything like this seriously, and when they do it turns into a big shitstorm (saudiburger and arguement jew).

Normie

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Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:26:37 No.4212401 Report

Quoted By:

>>4212380
Thanks for at least not shitting up the thread completely. Do me a favor and take that unflattering picture of me and delet it. I don't want to be herded into their flock anymore.
Have fun in bant burger friend. We'll try to keep this civil.

Normie

Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:26:56 No.4212405 Report

Quoted By: >>4212480

>>4212378
I like that. What potential drawbacks could you see though?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:5CeuKM8L Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:31:39 No.4212462 Report

Quoted By: >>4212495

>>4212201
I don't think ubi will work because giving money to people for nothing achieves nothing. As for a my preffered solution to inequality that is expected to rise in the future, I think it would be better if we just transfered ownership of companies to the workers so that regular people could benefit from the profits of automation rather than just the already wealthy (call it syndicalism, market socialism, workplace democracy, whatever)

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:vATYzlxj Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:33:20 No.4212480 Report

Quoted By:

>>4212405
none. there is literally no real arguments against this. the only ppl who would be against this are neocons, ancaps, etc

Normie

Normie ID:k3uiRBfb Mon 26 Feb 2018 05:34:58 No.4212495 Report

Quoted By:

>>4212462
That's one I haven't heard thrown around a lot. That seems a little extreme though. You could start a whole business only to have to share the profits with your employees in a large way which may cause your profits to go down substantially.
Could you explain a little better so I'm not mistaken here?

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