/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1128520

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 22:41:15 No.1128520 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1128544 >>1128594 >>1128600 >>1128641 >>1128688 >>1128896 >>1141089 >>1141113

What is the future of charging stations?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 23:12:53 No.1128536 Report

Quoted By: >>1128578

Extinction as it is quite clear that hybrids with small 70hp ICE's running on biofuel with about 60km range on only electric mode are the future, you load them overnight at home for commuting to work on only electricity and for longer distances you just add biofuel to the tank.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 23:53:26 No.1128544 Report

Quoted By: >>1128546 >>1128585 >>1140936

>>1128520
>60km ev range is useless
>biofuel is worse for the environment. unless you make it from algae and waste water.
>70hp might not be enough.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1105823_bmw-i3-rex-range-extender-owner-assesses-pros-and-cons-of-limited-power-engine

>>1128520
using solar power to charge a battery is inefficient, unless DC. using solar to charge a battery which then charges a battery is even more inefficient, unless DC.

EVs have DC charging ports. DC charging stations are really expensive compared to 240v AC charging stations.

Solar is a nice feature to shade cars charging. though you still want the charging stations connected to the grid. the solar panels would just be there to co-generate and reduce power plant demands when it is sunny.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 00:01:33 No.1128546 Report

Quoted By: >>1128574 >>1128579 >>1135921

>>1128544
60km is easily enough to go to work and back and therefore sufficient. And 70hp is plenty when you've got an electric motor, that could easily be 100hp or so since it weighs like nothing anyway, to help with acceleration. Now i don't know about biofuel but how could it be bad for the environment when you are just harvesting the power of the sun like with any other renewable energy source?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 02:57:44 No.1128574 Report

Quoted By: >>1128585 >>1128594 >>1128623

>>1128546
biofuels

>require scarce arabale land'
>require scarce fresh water
>require diesel farm equipment and trucks
>require synthetic fertilizers
>require synthetic pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides.
>energy used to process the bio matter into fuel oil or alcohol
>resources to process into fuels
>all those fertilizers and pest chemicals killing beneficial plants and animals.
>fertilizers causing algae blooms in the rivers, lakes and ocean. algae blooms create oxygen depletion and kill fish.
>not even carbon neutral.
>native plants and animals displaced as forest and grassland cleared for more farm land. just look at europe's demand for palm oil has done to Malaysian forests.
>GMO crops. huge swathes of nothing but the same GMO crop. which cross contaminate other non GMO crop plants. which can create a super bug/disease to raise up and put the food supply at risk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:14:41 No.1128578 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128536
Are you being sarcastic or are you really just that dumb?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:15:51 No.1128579 Report

Quoted By: >>1128624

>>1128546
Biofuels don't have zero emissions dipshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:31:19 No.1128585 Report

Quoted By: >>1128592 >>1128593 >>1128604

>>1128544
Using solar power (specifically, photovoltaic cells) is inefficient, period. Off the shelf, monocrystalline silicon PV panels only have like 18 percent efficiency, and that's before you factor in stuff like cloudy sky, sand, dirt, bird poo and stuff

>>1128574
I like how you single out palm oil like its the only source of biofuel (it wasn't even used that much in europe apart from some food product). Countries like the US, mexico and brazil grow corn for biofuel as well and what do this crop do to their forest. Yet nobody is complaining

It's a smear campaign backed by large companies to kill off competition under the guise of "protecting the environment"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:36:03 No.1128592 Report

Quoted By: >>1128597

>>1128585
Brazil uses sugar ethanol, not corn. Corn is a fucking terrible biofuel source.

The fact of the matter is that all crop-based biofuels are shit and algae-based biofuels have pretty limited appeal given the alternatives over the next couple of decades.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:38:29 No.1128593 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128585
corn is fucking garbage. it takes 150 pounds of water to make a 1 pound of corn. 26 pounds of corn for one gallon of ethanol.

corn displaces natural grass lands. which means more desertification risk.

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

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BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:39:14 No.1128594 Report

Quoted By: >>1128596

>>1128574
>require
no,no,no,no,no.,
,wedo organic here.,
,,require, change., ,we couldo ithe wrong/corperate way.,
,or we can think abouthe children., we cucked up for a while,, time to,, change.,
>>1128520
town has carport solar!, I charge fromy roof, extra to YOU!,,i push a few billion electrons on the grid, every day,, into, YOUR,,, HOUSE! YEEHA!
, I hear CHina makes 20watts for a dollar cells now.,, USA going TARRIFFAIL,, after we Crashed our solar.,, YA, OBAMA killed USA solar.,
>>1128574
COMON,, SAYIT!!,,, you want to sputhe Nuclear Clean BS., you work so hard pushing
GLOBAL DEATH.,
,whydo you Hate Squid?, Cephlapod is love.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:40:47 No.1128596 Report

Quoted By: >>1128604

>>1128594
You are the world's most shittily programed bot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:40:49 No.1128597 Report

Quoted By: >>1128599

>>1128592
farmers are cutting down the amazon rainforest to plant sugar cane.

the amazon, canadian and russian forests are import oxygen producers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:43:48 No.1128599 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128597
Thanks for stating the obvious. Really great contribution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 03:47:33 No.1128600 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128520
Replace refueling station

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

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BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Thu 23 Nov 2017 04:15:47 No.1128604 Report

Quoted By: >>1131188

>>1128596
iknow., if I can see that peeing in my own water is ,, nothe best., or WORSE, poisons., floride is what you need,, those tooths look shifty!>>1128585
>Using solar power is inefficient, period.
,I paid 1$watt installed,, payback under 3 years.,, 5cents watt, would be less then 2 months.
>>1128596
dont drink floride,,, iwas joshing!
,,OP,, I can see fully automated charging for selfdriving cars,, robot door opens for robot grocerys,, then off 500 miles ,,to the robot drugdealer.,

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 06:06:07 No.1128621 Report

Quoted By: >>1128626

Well I do support biofuel as long as it is an effort to recycle old cooking oils (or other type of discarded organic material like dead farm animal or byproducts of processed food that is unfit for consumption or stuff like that). Growing sugarcane, corn or rapeseed for sole purpose of making biofuel is stupid.

Speaking about used cooking oil, we're now using biofuel in airliners. Kinda neat. Now if only we can convert plastic back into petroleum

https://youtu.be/Qw3EkQge8A0

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 06:22:38 No.1128623 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128574
>more land
We already have an excess of food in the west, just repurpose that to biofuel.
>diesel
What if we power the farming equipment with biofuel instead of diesel?
>fertilizers and pesticides
What's wrong with syntetic fertilizers and pesticides?
>energy to process
Yeah and that energy can be from pretty much anything, like solar panels, you could easily have the production facility only be turned on during the day.
>pesticides killing animals
Only if improperly used
>pesticides causing algae bloom
Again, only if improperly used, just dont let em flow to a river and you're golden.
>not even carbon neutral
Why not?
>plants and animals displaced
So what?
>GMO's
There's nothing wrong with GMO's.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 06:23:44 No.1128624 Report

Quoted By: >>1128632

>>1128579
By the same logic so doesn't anything else, it takes resources to produce wind farms and solar panels as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 06:42:41 No.1128626 Report

Quoted By: >>1128628

>>1128621
>see this post
>careful because China's been throwing it's wumao garbage at the board lately
>check uploader's videos
>70% New China videos

Yeah get in the trash MingCheng

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 06:57:36 No.1128628 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128626
Well, shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 07:20:28 No.1128632 Report

Quoted By: >>1128633 >>1131861 >>1140937 >>1141096

>>1128624
You're stupid beyond belief. When you burn biofuel in an engine to propel a vehicle, it produces emissions right then and there.

That does not happen with electricity stored in a battery or hydrogen stored in a fuel cell. There produce zero emissions at the point of use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 07:31:37 No.1128633 Report

Quoted By: >>1128635

>>1128632
Wut? To grow the biofuels, the carbon dioxide was captured by the plants to produce the sugars. On point of production it's carbon-intaking. Not counting the tractors, factories, chemical plants, etc, that are all used to farm the plants, process it into biofuel, and then transport it around.

Electricity stored in a battery or hydrogen cell was generated in a coal plant, which are massive spewing pollution zones.

If 'point of production' and 'point of use' are on the same planet, differentiating between them is fucking dumb.

Biofuels are dumb but not because of carbon emissions, but because it takes a lot of energy to make them, so you're getting very little energy per acre of land. You want algae biofuel production where you can harvest much more solar energy. Or grow it on a different planet or plant orbiting around the sun like another planet for the extra land space.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 07:49:45 No.1128634 Report

Quoted By: >>1129082

this is what a typical parking lot will look like in a decade

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 07:52:55 No.1128635 Report

Quoted By: >>1128666

>>1128633
When you put biofuel in a gas tank and burn it to power an engine, CO2 comes out of the tail pipe. When you put hydrogen in a tank and 'burn' it, only water vapor comes out the tail pipe. When you charge a battery bank and use it to propel a car, literally nothing is emitted.

There's not a single fucking thing that requires electricity or hydrogen to be sourced polluting sources.

Biofuels are fucking stupid and they will never matter at all on anything other than an absolutely tiny scale in the grand scheme of things.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 09:59:31 No.1128641 Report

Quoted By: >>1128702

>>1128520
So I got an idea. Roadside charging stations, kinda like the ones in the OP, just a solar farm with a few battery packs. You don't even need anybody manning it, just insert your credit card and charge away. No need for refueling, gasoline storage. Just a few thousand dollars worth of solar panels and battery packs.

The main downside of EV is limited range, so station them alongside long and lonely roads like pic related. Maybe every 50-100 kilometers. They are just charging stations, no toilets or stores or food so they are just meant to a quick top up. Like you just drove in a cramped car for the last 2 hours and you want to stretch you legs and walk around, so you might as well do so while you give your car a quick top up.

Same for say, a cigarette break or stopping for some packed lunch or something. Just a quick 10-15 min charge. Which hopefully, battery tech advances to the point where even a few mins of charging can somewhat fill the battery. Maybe 10 mins for a extra 30KM range or something like that.

Hell, it could even be free. Government or company sponsored charging stations that allow anyone to charge for as long as they like. So if your car was really really low on battery, you can just break out your phone and watch a movie as the solar panels slowly charges your car.

And then there's the traditional manned stations that have a store, a dinner, a toilet, maybe even a motel etc. All covered with solar panels, which helps with their electrical bill and means that they don't have to be connected to the grid. So you go eat while your car charges using the solar panels, so your carbon emissions is neutral.

What do /n/ think? Keep in mind that this assumes 10-20 years later with much reduced solar panel and battery pack cost and of course a massive increase in EV. Do you think that we can afford to just litter the roadsides with solar panel chargers?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 11:54:05 No.1128656 Report

Quoted By: >>1128657

The future is cageless. Stop fucking arguing which way of propelling your 2.5 ton of soyboy box is least shitty

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 11:56:16 No.1128657 Report

Quoted By: >>1128659 >>1128670 >>1128671

>>1128656
The fuck is a soyboy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 11:59:31 No.1128659 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128657
a sissy wimp who will tell you something along the lines of "I would like to ride but man it snows it rains here and I don't like being sweaty so that's why I drive a car"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 12:29:29 No.1128666 Report

Quoted By: >>1128744

>>1128635
Where do you think that CO2 got into the bio fuel? From the goddamn air, how dumb can you be?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 13:23:54 No.1128670 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128657
A guy who drinks too much soy milk that his testosterone level drops below minimum, recommended level

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 13:37:00 No.1128671 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128657
A backwater shitcunt that is paranoid about not being enough of a man and so culturally isolated that they make a meme for white people out of asian food mainstays.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 18:06:29 No.1128688 Report

Quoted By: >>1128742

>>1128520
Fusion nuclear plants are the only future for electric transportation.
Not these faggy low power cells.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 18:50:24 No.1128702 Report

Quoted By: >>1128715

>>1128641
that's a Tesla Supercharger
these are already around and work pretty fine

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 20:21:53 No.1128715 Report

Quoted By: >>1128891

>>1128702
They aren't really that common compared to even gas stations. I'm talking about putting them every 50-100kms on roads. Not to mention the lack of solar panels.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 20:25:59 No.1128716 Report

Quoted By: >>1128739

How long would you have to wait at one of these things to finish charging?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 21:51:00 No.1128739 Report

Quoted By: >>1128754

>>1128716
Well the new Tesla megacharger is supposed to recharge 600 kilometers of range is just 30 minutes of charging time. Of course that is the new Tesla tech that may not come out for another 5 years so who work how long it will take for the tech to find it's way into your neighborhood

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 21:54:37 No.1128742 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128688
You don't even understand the words you're using. Best to quit while you're behind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 21:56:00 No.1128744 Report

Quoted By: >>1128885

>>1128666
That's not how biofuel works you dumb cunt. You are literally claiming it's carbon neutral when it absolutely isn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Nov 2017 22:23:53 No.1128754 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128739
Sounds like there would be big business in little tea houses that rich people can have a snack while they wait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 06:55:53 No.1128885 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128744
How the hell does it work then, seems simple, you grow plants, they absorb shit and then you burn that grass up in your ICE.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 07:33:24 No.1128891 Report

Quoted By: >>1128902 >>1129026 >>1129175 >>1140837

>>1128715
There are solar panels on that roof. They get more and more every day. In a few years almost every parking lot will look like this. That's more then enough.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 08:05:01 No.1128896 Report

Quoted By: >>1128912 >>1128935 >>1140940 >>1143472

>>1128520
>What is the future of charging stations?
The possibility of the return 50's era Drive-In culture. Imagine being waited by a young college girl on roller skates while you charge your car at the Drive-In Diner. A cinema Drive-In played through your own car's speaker system via FM transmitter while you snag a little juice for your automobile. A chance for people to congregate and make new friends while at the Drive-In recreation center with table games and video games shared by youths. The possibilities are endless.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 09:30:51 No.1128902 Report

Quoted By: >>1128909 >>1128934 >>1128936 >>1128993

>>1128891
I wonder how much juice those all those solar panels provide. I mean a EV sucks up alot of power. The new tesla roadster has a battery of 720 MJ. A single typical rooftop solar panel can provide about maybe 200-400 watts, at peak sunlight. That's horrible, even if you scale it up. Even at say, 10 kilowatts, which is a decent sized farm, more then you would be able to put on your house, you need 20 hours to charge that 720 MJ battery. Not to mention the inefficiency involved with converting the power into a DC current. And that's one car, when there will probably be hundreds in the future. And they want to be charged within minutes to 1-2 hours. Sure they help, but even if you cover every building and parking lot, it's like a drop in a cup, the charging stations will still have to depend heavily on the grid.

Of course this fails to mention the massive MW solar farms that will also be connected the grid. And while it's a drop in the bucket, everything helps and in the long run, this will still save tons of traditional fossil fuels over their 20 year long lifespan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 10:34:35 No.1128909 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128902
For a typical solar farm, you're looking at 1MW/hectare for the panels alone (substations, batteries, control room and other supporting structures not included)

Also, transferring electricity from one battery to another seems inefficient imo. An EV car already had giant ithium batteries inside so we could prolly just connect it directly to the source

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 11:00:37 No.1128912 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128896
Pretty sure all of this would be replaced by "FREE PHONE CHARGING"

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 13:39:25 No.1128934 Report

Quoted By: >>1129026

>>1128902
All these solar panels provide 908 kW. Your 720 MJ are 200 kWh. Should be enough to fully charge quite some Teslas on a sunny day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 13:39:59 No.1128935 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128896
eww

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 13:45:27 No.1128936 Report

Quoted By: >>1129026

>>1128902
They'll probably just sell the electricity back into the grid and take the electricity they use to charge the cars from the grid. It doesn't really matter that they put the panels right on top of the stations, they could be on top of any other building, it just looks nice and goes well with the eco friendly theme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 19:14:58 No.1128993 Report

Quoted By: >>1129032

>>1128902
What? 10kw is nothing. You could fit that kind of capacity on the roof of a single suburban house.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 21:37:13 No.1129026 Report

Quoted By: >>1129030 >>1129175

>>1128934
You're talking about this >>1128891 right? Really, doesn't look like it is close to a megawatt.Got any source? I mean even at a megawatt, that's not much. For example, a Tesla supercharger outputs about 120kW, even with a megawatt power output, you can only charge around 8 cars at the same time.

It's still good don't get me wrong, especially in a city where the most you're gonna need to drive to and fro to work, so a few minutes of charging is probably enough for most people, unless you plan on taking a road trip. But 908kW also assumes strong sunlight with no clouds or rains and only for a few hours each day.
>>1128936
That's a good idea. I'm just saying that while solar is a good stopgap, that's all it's gonna be. Just a stop gap until we get fusion or really large scale high attitude wind farms or tidal power. Unless you cover every single building in solar panels, there's no way that would be enough to support an entire cities thousands of EV that all needs charging, as well as the other electrical needs that a major city needs.

And even if you do cover every building and parking lot and road with solar panels, they still don't have good base load capacity since a sudden rainstorm could plunge your power output, and of course the early mornings and late afternoon are also gonna to be shit for power output.

So it's better then nothing, you're still saving tons of money and fuel over it's twenty year lifespan, but it's not going to be the main source of power anytime soon, especially not in a world where EV outnumbers ICE.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 21:57:00 No.1129030 Report

Quoted By: >>1129045

>>1129026
The whole idea that solar and wind can't provide baseload is a myth, particularly in the rain of energy storage.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 22:02:36 No.1129032 Report

Quoted By: >>1129033 >>1129034 >>1129035

>>1128993
See pic related. They could be put onto a single house, but it would take a pretty large house, my house sure as hell can't support anywhere near that amount of solar panels, especially with the way that some roofs are build. It also looks ugly if it completely fills out the roof like that, which is a large dealbreaker for most people and most importantly, it's expensive. That 10kW system would cost around 20K and is kinda overkill for most houses. Most houses just tend to go for 4-5 solar panels, for about 1 kw system that is enough for that single house. Some states still don't support selling electricity back to the grid, so a 10kW system is kinda overkill.

But that's houses, of course massive 100+ MW solar farms are still available. But even that's not enough. A Tesla supercharger is 120kW, but's let's simplify that to 100kw to make thing easier. A thousands cars, all needing charging at the same time, would need a 100 MW farm. That's only a thousand cars, when in some cities, there can be as many cars as the people living there. Not to mention that's assuming park sunshine, in the middle of the day. If it rains or in the early morning/late afternoon, your 10kW system could turn into a 1kW system.

I'm not saying that solar is bad, every joule that we squeeze out of it is free energy that we would have needed to burn fossil fuel for before but there's no way it's gonna to be the major energy source for the future. It's just there as a stop gap, there to supplement the grid until we finally get large scale nuclear power/high attitude wind farms/massive tidal power around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 22:03:32 No.1129033 Report

Quoted By: >>1129045

>>1129032
A 10kw system only requires <700 SQ ft of roof.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 22:05:35 No.1129034 Report

Quoted By: >>1129045

>>1129032
You also don't understand the difference between watts and watt-hours. As such, your math is grossly oversimplified to the point of being flat out wrong in real world applications.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 22:07:02 No.1129035 Report

Quoted By: >>1129045 >>1129056

>>1129032
And a third thing. You're dumb as fuck if you think tidal power is ever going to make up more capacity than either wind or solar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 22:40:10 No.1129045 Report

Quoted By: >>1129047 >>1129048 >>1129053

>>1129034
A watt hour is just a watt over an hour, how the fuck am I wrong? Like I said, a tesla supercharger needs 100kWs, a thousand car charging at the same time need 100MWs. That's basic grade school math.
>>1129035
When did I ever say that retard? I was just saying that tidal power would be one of the important base load power source, since solar and wind can stop but tides are always there. And did you see that I mentioned tidal power along side nuclear and high attitude wind farms? They don't need to be as good as wind or solar since they only be used to supplement nuclear and traditional fossil fuels power plants at night or when the sun isn't shining due to rain or whatnot. It doesn't matter if you have terawatt solar farms if they can't be used in the night.
>>1129033
And you're ignoring my points on cost, the fact that some roofs are build in a way that they can't fit that many solar panels on it even if they have the space or the fact that some people don't like completely covering their roofs with solar panels.
>>1129030
Battery technology still has a long way to go before that happens. Not to mention cost and time involved with setting up the gigawatts of battery banks that every major city.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 22:51:36 No.1129047 Report

Quoted By: >>1129049

>>1129045
You openly ignore observable, present day reality on more levels than are defensible. You have a suboar knowledge of literally every subject you're talking about and don't even realize it. It takes your credibility down to near as makes no difference zero.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 22:54:15 No.1129048 Report

Quoted By: >>1129049

>>1129045
>He doesn't understand how intermittent renewable baseload works.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 22:57:53 No.1129049 Report

Quoted By: >>1129051 >>1129052

>>1129047
And you're not even providing any argument or refuting my points or even telling me what I'm supposed to be wrong about. Good job Mr expert who can't provide any useful info.
>>1129048
Go on and explain it then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 23:26:27 No.1129051 Report

Quoted By: >>1129057

>>1129049
You don't have to produce instantaneous overcapacity. If you have 1MWh being used, that 1MWh doesn't have to be produced right at that exact time. That's not how the grid works today and it sure as shit isn't the way it's going to work going forward.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 23:28:57 No.1129052 Report

Quoted By: >>1129057

>>1129049
It would help if you were actually providing an evidence and reality-based argument. Once you do, then maybe you'll have some standing you whine like a 10 year old.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 23:31:04 No.1129053 Report

Quoted By: >>1129057

>>1129045
Fun fact, wind farms produce more power at night than during the day.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 23:54:11 No.1129056 Report

Quoted By:

>>1129035
>tidal power
well,,, sortof.,
,, Gulf Stream,, just off shore, power,, UNLIMITED POWER!
,

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Nov 2017 23:59:29 No.1129057 Report

Quoted By: >>1129065 >>1129066 >>1129071

>>1129053
And also fun fact, there are times where wind doesn't blow at all. That's why we need a 100% completely reliable baseload. Unless you want to be like India where rolling blackouts where you can't use any power for hours, every couple days.
>>1129052
No argument. Nice
>>1129051
I was just saying that with the rate that solar power is going, there's no way for it to provide enough power even at peak output. If the city needs 50MW and you're only providing 40MWs because a sudden storm broke out and slashed the output of your solar farm in half, expect blackouts over some parts of the city as you're unable to provide power. And for solar power, that power has to be used right then and then, since we don't have a way to store the power on the grid just yet.

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

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BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sat 25 Nov 2017 00:02:52 No.1129058 Report

Quoted By:

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSCN5125.jpg, 2MiB, 3520x2240

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sat 25 Nov 2017 00:06:54 No.1129059 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 00:29:36 No.1129065 Report

Quoted By: >>1129070

>>1129057
Says the guy who hasn't made any factual overarching point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 00:31:21 No.1129066 Report

Quoted By: >>1129070

>>1129057
>I was just saying that with the rate that solar power is going, there's no way for it to provide enough power even at peak output. If the city needs 50MW and you're only providing 40MWs because a sudden storm broke out and slashed the output of your solar farm in half, expect blackouts over some parts of the city as you're unable to provide power. And for solar power, that power has to be used right then and then, since we don't have a way to store the power on the grid just yet.

This whole statement proves you don't know how grids work. And you seem to think battery arrays are the only way power is stored, which is extremely wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 00:38:30 No.1129070 Report

Quoted By: >>1129072

>>1129065
And the same can be said to you.
>>1129066
>And you seem to think battery arrays are the only way power is stored, which is extremely wrong.

This whole statement proves you don't know how grids work. What else is there? Hydro? Well great if you have a dam nearby and you're content to live with the same capacity forever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 00:39:44 No.1129071 Report

Quoted By: >>1129083 >>1129086

>>1129057
Over 20% of California's electricity comes from intermittent sources (i.e. a lot more than in the past) and rolling blackouts happen far, far less frequently than the did 15-20 years ago.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 00:41:56 No.1129072 Report

Quoted By: >>1129086 >>1129090

>>1129070
Flow, pumped hydro, conventional hydro, flywheels.

The simple fact that power reliability is up while renewables' share is also up totally undermines your argument.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 2623955_orig[1].jpg, 250KiB, 480x298

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 01:38:24 No.1129082 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128634
it is a known fact that no one, other than me, willingly parks on top of parking decks. Which makes them prime locations to put car chargers and solar panels.

I go straight to the uncovered top. simply because it is the most likely place to find a space.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 01:39:43 No.1129083 Report

Quoted By:

>>1129071
California lets a nuclear power plant sit idle and leaking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:01:44 No.1129086 Report

Quoted By: >>1129087 >>1129089 >>1129091

>>1129071
That's 20% and that's the entire point of having a completely reliable baseload power supply, to cover that 20% if the output drops. If your city has 80% of it's power from solar and wind, and on a really bad day where both the sun and the wind decides to chonk out, then you're in deep shit son. Not to mention the upgrade you're going to have to make on the grid so that it can predict this kinds of dips and jumps in the power output and adjust/divert power according. And the demand on the grid is just going to increase and increase as more and more people switch to EV. Tens of thousands of EV, all sucking hundreds of megawatts of power, at around the same time, in the evening.
>>1129072
>Flywheels

Well you just proved you know nothing on this topic. The problem is that the wheel has to be very, very, balanced or it will start oscillating and losing a lot of energy. The oscillation would not only lower the efficiency of the storage, but it would also create vibrations that could be destructive for the structure where it's placed. That's why this way of storing energy has few and very specific uses, and could not be used to work as a energy buffer for a hydroelectric plant, for instance. There's a reason why flywheels have been a thing since the industrial revolution and there's still no large scale energy storage system using them. And another issue is cost, we could build large scale Lithium ion battery farms today, that that would cost hundreds of billions. That's why we're still spending billions each year to develop the holy grail of cheap, more energy dense then gasoline and easily charged batteries. Because we're in the real world and cost is really the main issue with renewables. Solar and wind is only now barely being cost competitive with fossil fuels, previously they only got though with government subsidies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:03:31 No.1129087 Report

Quoted By: >>1129095

>>1129086
It's going to be 33% within 3 years and 50% less than a decade after that. You haven't accounted for the fact that grid reliability and intermittent renewable % are simultaneously up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:07:14 No.1129089 Report

Quoted By: >>1129095

>>1129086
Don't you think it's pretty weird that utilities and scientists don't agree with your views on this subject.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Electricity_Generation_Sources_f (...).png, 238KiB, 1200x1319

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:11:29 No.1129090 Report

Quoted By: >>1129092 >>1129101

>>1129072
>hydro

Hydro is the only cheap form of energy storage that we have, but even that has problem. Once a dam is build, that's it, you're not gonna make it any more powerful or increase the capacity and you're certainly not going to be able to build a lot more dams, even if you have rivers near by. And if you don't have any nearby rivers? Compared to battery farms, where if you want to double the capacity, just buy more batteries. Of course this is way more expensive then hydro or just building a 50 MW natural gas power plant, which is why noone is really building large scale grid storage battery farms yet.

>The simple fact that power reliability is up while renewables' share is also up totally undermines your argument.

Son... This is because we still use extremely low levels of renewables as compared to fossil fuels. Those fossils fuels plants that can be started up and used to make up for any fall in power output incase the wind starts to die down or if it's a cloudy day. And most of that is hydro, which doesn't have the unreliability problem of solar and wind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:13:10 No.1129091 Report

Quoted By: >>1129095

>>1129086
solar and wind should be for reducing demand on power plants. so you can throttle back your nuclear, CNG, and hydro when they are producing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:19:47 No.1129092 Report

Quoted By: >>1129095

>>1129090
a town in Alaska did make their hydro dam more powerful and store more. They simply made the damn thing taller. Blue Lake Dam, Sitka Alaska.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO California_Electricity_Generatio (...).png, 39KiB, 342x376

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:29:20 No.1129095 Report

Quoted By: >>1129102 >>1129103 >>1129104 >>1129159

>>1129087
>You haven't accounted for the fact that grid reliability and intermittent renewable % are simultaneously up.

Well grids are becoming more reliable over time as our technology advances and again, that's because just about every nation/state in the world still uses traditional fossil fuels to make up for the dips in solar and wind. Or reliable renewable like hydro or geothermal that won't fluxuate as badly as solar. In California, they still use almost 50% natural gas and a large percentage of renewables is reliable 24/7 geothermal and hydro.

And I suggest that you don't use California as an example when it's the clear leader renewable energy and has tons of tax breaks and regulations to allow for it's record breaking renewables. Not when you look at the rest of the country and our current government.

>>1129089
Like what? The fact that we need a reliable baseload power supply to make up for dips in solar and wind? Everybody agrees on this.
>>1129091
That was literally my point. That solar and wind are supplements to reduce the amount of nuclear/hydro/fossil fuels that we need to use and then when their power starts to dip, we have to increase the baseload supply to make up for it. Unless we start building massive grid storage facilities.
>>1129092
Sounds like they had to rebuild the dam. Which is again expensive and depending on the geographic location and water supply, might not be possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:46:21 No.1129101 Report

Quoted By: >>1129108

>>1129090
Are you illiterate? You are saying increased renewables today would mean a less reliable grid, but the share of renewables has significantly increased in the past 10 years, and grid reliability has increased.

You claim and reality and in direct opposition to each other.

There is not a simpler way to say this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:47:59 No.1129102 Report

Quoted By: >>1129108 >>1129119

>>1129095
Solar is the cheapest source of unsubsidized electricity in California. That's also true in many other parts of the country. Read a book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:50:45 No.1129103 Report

Quoted By:

>>1129095
> Like what? The fact that we need a reliable baseload power supply to make up for dips in solar and wind? Everybody agrees on this.

Utilities and scientists don't view solar and wind, even without storage, as being at odds with this.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ca elec mix.png, 51KiB, 864x559

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 02:54:33 No.1129104 Report

Quoted By: >>1129108

>>1129095
You neglected to mention that solar and wind, both in and out of state, are increasing their share which fossil fuels -- including natural gas -- are decreasing in share.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO chart2.png, 33KiB, 580x285

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 03:03:23 No.1129108 Report

Quoted By: >>1129115 >>1129117

>>1129101
>Are you illiterate? You are saying increased renewables today would mean a less reliable grid, but the share of renewables has significantly increased in the past 10 years, and grid reliability has increased.

And fossil fuels have also increased just as much. That's what keeping the grid stable, the massive increased use of natural gas that has kept pace even with the increased amounts of solar and wind. Again, explain your logic, how does two unreliable energy sources, whose power output could drop to near zero under certain conditions. If anything, the fact that a more reliable grid exists just says to the engeering needed to make the grid be able to divert power and adjust to the dips and peak in both wind and solar.
>>1129102
Give me a source then. And again, solar can only be used in the day and it's power output can drop like a brick on a rainy day, which means that for every mhw of solar you have, you need the same mhw backup power supply to pick up the slack at night or off grid storage. Expensive to say the least. And in many parts of the world, solar is literally unusable due to the location and climate.
>>1129104
In total percentage yes. But we are still increasing the total amount of natural gas by gross tonnage that we use. And I suggest that you don't use California as an example when it's the clear leader in renewable energy and has tons of tax breaks and regulations to allow for it's record breaking renewables supply. Not when you look at the rest of the country and our current government.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 03:24:21 No.1129115 Report

Quoted By:

>>1129108
You keep whining like a libertarian shithead about subsidies without actually knowing what that entails or even means. Get it through your low sloped skull that solar is the cheapest unsubsidized form of energy for orders of magnitude more people than you think. Wind is cheaper than natural gas for huge swaths of the country too.

http://calculators.energy.utexas.edu/lcoe_map/#/county/tech

Levelized cost when accounting for availability using all other baseline (unaltered) parameters. That also means not accounting for any sort of carbon pricing, which would favor renewables.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 03:28:10 No.1129117 Report

Quoted By: >>1131142

>>1129108
Don't use any state that subsidized coal mining and coal fired power plants as an example then. Don't use any state that subsidized fracking as an example then. See how that works, junior?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 03:31:06 No.1129119 Report

Quoted By: >>1129124

>>1129102
only if you don't count the batteries.

panels plus batteries make solar expensive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 03:53:26 No.1129124 Report

Quoted By:

>>1129119
Nobody counts the batteries because almost nobody is using them yet. And the price on them is dropping fast, along with panels. So by the time they are more standard, both things will be much cheaper.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 2017-11-24--1511592485_632x414_s (...).png, 26KiB, 632x414

Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 06:48:54 No.1129159 Report

Quoted By:

>>1129095
>And I suggest that you don't use California as an example when it's the clear leader renewable energy

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 Nov 2017 08:45:55 No.1129175 Report

Quoted By:

>>1129026
>You're talking about this >>1128891 right? Really, doesn't look like it is close to a megawatt.Got any source?
it's Fortinet solar campus, capacity is really 908 kW
http://www.blueoakenergy.com/solar-portfolio/fortinet-solar-case-study

you can get about 500 kW from a typical Walmart roof and double this if you cover most of a Walmart parking lot.

It's a good idea for California. But of course it might not work as well in Alaska.

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

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BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sat 02 Dec 2017 23:17:29 No.1131126 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO nuclear vs renewables subsidies.jpg, 102KiB, 1200x904

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 00:22:22 No.1131142 Report

Quoted By: >>1131152

>>1129117
Why don't we just use nuclear power like the Chinese and Koreans built it, hypocrite?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 01:03:43 No.1131152 Report

Quoted By: >>1131160

>>1131142
You want to try again there? Maybe this time make a coherent point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 01:54:41 No.1131160 Report

Quoted By: >>1131191

>>1131152
What are you talking about?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 03:57:16 No.1131188 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128604
bacon confirmed for knowing about the dangers of flouride

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 04:05:30 No.1131191 Report

Quoted By: >>1131210

>>1131160
That absurdly irrelevant chart.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 04:52:38 No.1131210 Report

Quoted By: >>1131216 >>1131220

>>1131191
What about it?

Why should we pay more for clean energy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 05:12:00 No.1131216 Report

Quoted By: >>1131220 >>1131222

>>1131210
Solar is cheaper in far more of the country. There is already peer-reviewed research proving it posted in this thread.

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

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BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sun 03 Dec 2017 05:29:33 No.1131220 Report

Quoted By: >>1131222

>>1131210
wedeveloped,, and, produced, NO nuclear plants in 2016., if anything we should go negative,, selling uranium to Russsia andall.,
,,althat Nuclaer Waste., itsnot part of the graff? isit?, or protection?,
,,,,why didyou Nuke?,, back in 1955 when the SolarCell was born?,
,it blosomsnow,, butyour PUTRID STINK willastill ,ever.
>>1131216
bbuuuu but, Nightime!

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Comparative-LCOEs-in-4-Countries (...).jpg, 36KiB, 750x498

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 05:32:02 No.1131222 Report

Quoted By: >>1131224 >>1131231

>>1131216
Because we Americans screwed up building nuclear.
>>1131220
you throw the waste into a pit baconrider

you should try it some time yourself

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 05:33:45 No.1131224 Report

Quoted By: >>1131225

>>1131222
So you are admitting that you are wrong and the scientific research is right. Thanks for clearing that up.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO materials per energy source.jpg, 45KiB, 750x563

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 05:36:58 No.1131225 Report

Quoted By: >>1131230

>>1131224
Only for America

Can't say it's sustainable though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 05:47:00 No.1131230 Report

Quoted By: >>1131231

>>1131225
Panel design and construction totally hasn't changed at all and never will /s

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSCN5053.jpg, 644KiB, 2863x1749

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sun 03 Dec 2017 06:04:19 No.1131231 Report

Quoted By: >>1131347

>>1131222
>throw the waste into a pit
composting, Check.,
,
,Jurasipark,, those Raptors,,, they developed opposing thumbs.,andestroyed the WORLD., for a while.,
>>1131230
butthose sources!,, if you cant trust Murry, Raymond and Keith over at Enviromental Progress,, whocan you trust?,
,, environmental, its gota be safe!

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO materials_throughput.png, 65KiB, 888x596

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:02:44 No.1131347 Report

Quoted By: >>1131349 >>1131351

>>1131231
Yeah bacon, I hope you trust the science at the DOE

https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/09/f26/Quadrennial-Technology-Review-2015_0.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:06:13 No.1131349 Report

Quoted By: >>1131352

>>1131347
You keep saying things that you think are making a relevant point, but you're not. You already totally backtracked and admitted you were wrong on cost, so why the hell do you think anyone is taking your side on your half-hearted non-argument now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:08:36 No.1131351 Report

Quoted By:

>>1131347
The same DoE that says clean coal is real and that said in Bonn that coal is the solution to global warming?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:08:53 No.1131352 Report

Quoted By: >>1131354 >>1131356 >>1131361

>>1131349
Sustainability is a non-argument?
Wow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:17:09 No.1131354 Report

Quoted By: >>1131357

>>1131352
There's no scientist that would make the argument that solar and wind aren't sustainable you pedantic asshole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:20:19 No.1131356 Report

Quoted By: >>1131357

>>1131352
Holy nigger fucking christ, just kill yourself already. You're straight up making the argument that definitionally sustainable forms of generating power aren't actually sustainable at all. Die. Just fucking die.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:22:31 No.1131357 Report

Quoted By: >>1131364

>>1131356
>>1131354
Nuclear is more sustainable around the globe.

I'd like to see cheap nuclear in the USA as it is in the east.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:28:27 No.1131361 Report

Quoted By: >>1131372

>>1131352
Because uranium mining is known world-over for being so clean and sustainable...

Maybe, you know, try applying sensible standards to this rather than just representing your confirmation-biased opinion as if it's fact.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:32:32 No.1131364 Report

Quoted By: >>1131371

>>1131357
The generation itself is not cheap in the east. There's just nowhere close to the type of safety regulations. People have already been sounding the alarm on China's lax construction standards and the fact that they build plants in strong earthquake zones.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:45:59 No.1131371 Report

Quoted By: >>1131375 >>1131444

>>1131364
>Gen III+ french designs
>constructed by the state and not by shoddy subcontractors

Those plants are built to standards higher than most existing American plants. Safety regulations in the USA are overbearing. Even the Russians build Gen III VVERs cheap these days.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:47:31 No.1131372 Report

Quoted By: >>1131375

>>1131361
ISU mining is clean and sustainable

Open pit mining is on the decline for uranium supply

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:52:38 No.1131375 Report

Quoted By: >>1131381

>>1131371
You have a definition of "cheap" that nobody agrees with.

>>1131372
Laughable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 19:58:12 No.1131381 Report

Quoted By: >>1131392

>>1131375
~$2000/kWe is not cheap?

In the USA it's 8000

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 20:14:40 No.1131392 Report

Quoted By:

>>1131381
No it's not cheap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 20:16:50 No.1131395 Report

Quoted By:

You're all retarded. This thread has nothing to do with /n/ anymore and hasn't since the first handful of posts.

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSCN4729 (2).jpg, 2MiB, 3505x2261

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sun 03 Dec 2017 22:58:22 No.1131444 Report

Quoted By: >>1131448

cement solar panels,,,,it Does warm up.,
,,its gota be tuff,, shilling for planetary death.,
,how much is the pay?, does it include medical?,, gona Need a LOT of that!
>>1131371
> regulations in the USA are overbearing
,,,Air,,,, ever breathit?,,cages=poison gas.,until we get with SOLAR!, with biofuelside.,
,OOOooh Doge!
,,,nuckshill?,,, tell me again how safe those nucks are., SanOnofre,,, the Magicasks?, showme a nice chart,,, just laying on the beach,, sosafe,,,,NEVER fail.,
,,tellme.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO deaths per twh.jpg, 47KiB, 1024x743

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 23:07:25 No.1131448 Report

Quoted By: >>1131449

>>1131444

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Dec 2017 23:10:56 No.1131449 Report

Quoted By:

>>1131448
Still retreating from your entire original set of arguments I see.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 Dec 2017 08:28:42 No.1131599 Report

Quoted By: >>1131602 >>1132306

As long as as electric cars are rare their demand for electric energy is not an issue. But once there are more and more we run into problems. If all cars are electric the demand for electric energy will rise by at least 30%. This means we need to build hundreds of new power plants. We also need to upgrade our power grid to deal with it. Building only one of these power plants will cost us Billions.
This may well be the largest investment in infrastructure in our history. Costs may even exceed our military budget. No magic fairy will pay for it. They will take this money from your pocket.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 Dec 2017 08:33:07 No.1131602 Report

Quoted By: >>1131640

>>1131599
Holy fuck. You have no idea how the grid or utilities even work, let alone distributed generation or energy equivalency costs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 Dec 2017 13:03:21 No.1131640 Report

Quoted By: >>1132254

>>1131602
So what do you think where all this electric energy will come from? And how it will go all the way from a power-plant to your car?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 Dec 2017 22:19:47 No.1131855 Report

Quoted By: >>1132230

theres not enough capacity in power plants to support it if everyone starts using electric cars

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 04 Dec 2017 22:29:46 No.1131861 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128632
why grow new things to make that fuel when there are billions tons of waste produced every day that could be used for it instead?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Dec 2017 19:57:34 No.1132230 Report

Quoted By: >>1132351

>>1131855
it's not going to happen overnight. There will be time to build more. Lots of charging can be done on off-peak time as well when people are sleeping.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Dec 2017 23:05:41 No.1132254 Report

Quoted By: >>1132326

>>1131640
This is such a stupid question on your part. Do you have any idea how energy intensive it is the pump, refine, and ship petroleum? But somehow that just isn't a problem at all to you...

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSC04218.jpg, 397KiB, 2418x1093

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Wed 06 Dec 2017 03:49:27 No.1132306 Report

Quoted By:

1Kw more panels,, on the way.,
pic>1$day

>>1131599
>upgrade our power
Chek.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO EROI-Book-Figure.jpg, 76KiB, 960x720

Anonymous Wed 06 Dec 2017 05:08:27 No.1132326 Report

Quoted By: >>1132337 >>1132490

>>1132254
Makes much more energy than what is needed to get it when burned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Dec 2017 05:11:40 No.1132329 Report

Quoted By:

Just forget about the economic viability of it.

https://festkoerper-kernphysik.de/Weissbach_EROI_preprint.pdf

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSC03832.jpg, 1MiB, 2196x1355

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Wed 06 Dec 2017 05:56:27 No.1132337 Report

Quoted By: >>1132338 >>1132373

whats livable?,,
,What would you put, atyour home?,
,MMmmm, a nice Coal furnace,, so comfy!,clean coal,,, Tasty Coal!
,,,,I like biogas,,fartofuel.
,wind can be noisey.,, waturbine in river?,
,nuclear,,? FFFFFF! U! ,ando you Dump the WASTE!?!?, F NO, you go and make Peace Bullets for the U.N.,, !
,,Blasting atoms to Bits, and more Bits., its molecular litter., you cant clean it up,,,, Unless your in space!, please gethere.
>>1132326
its next door to you,, what do you chose?
,,,,also,BS chartscary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Dec 2017 06:00:23 No.1132338 Report

Quoted By: >>1132487

>>1132337
I choose the nuclear plant

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 06 Dec 2017 08:24:53 No.1132351 Report

Quoted By:

>>1132230
>it's not going to happen overnight. There will be time to build more

To build all of our current power-plants took more then a century. We will need to build new plants much faster if we all want to use electric cars.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 9ac.jpg, 48KiB, 600x692

Anonymous Wed 06 Dec 2017 13:28:11 No.1132373 Report

Quoted By:

>>1132337

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSC04000.jpg, 3MiB, 2592x1944

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Thu 07 Dec 2017 00:52:26 No.1132487 Report

Quoted By: >>1132637

>>1132338
butthose power outages?,, how can you live?, nuclear needs down time to fuel.,, what you gona do?,
,, and when they justrip offline?,, no warning, WAM, internets gone!,,
,and the waste,,,,,,,,,,
,,, not enough,,, comas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 Dec 2017 01:02:47 No.1132490 Report

Quoted By:

>>1132326
This is a totally bullshit chart and nobody even disputes that fact. It reflects poorly on your intelligence that you dogmatically believe it.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSC_2620.jpg, 2MiB, 2464x1640

Anonymous Thu 07 Dec 2017 07:44:23 No.1132631 Report

Quoted By: >>1132936

I can show you how a typical charging station looks like in Europe. It's in a parking lot of some grocery store. You can charge your car with 100% green energy for free while shopping.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 Dec 2017 08:32:24 No.1132637 Report

Quoted By: >>1132772

>>1132487

Why do you always use so many commas?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 Dec 2017 20:54:15 No.1132772 Report

Quoted By:

>>1132637
Badly programmed shitpost bot

His opinions should be discarded

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO b-ecarchargers.jpg, 927KiB, 2592x1944

Anonymous Fri 08 Dec 2017 11:15:39 No.1132936 Report

Quoted By:

>>1132631
this is what it looks like in Japan

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSC03997.jpg, 816KiB, 2026x1465

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sun 10 Dec 2017 06:35:31 No.1133508 Report

Quoted By:

thecost of panels, isa fraction of car cost.,
,,andlast longer.,,,installs in minutes.
, Nukeboy needs to "refuel everyear., take a month while he shivers in the cold.,, snuggle up to Plutonium, FEEL THEAT!

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSCN5140 (2).jpg, 2MiB, 3575x2354

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sun 17 Dec 2017 03:22:23 No.1135683 Report

Quoted By: >>1135689

thisun thing happens.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Dec 2017 03:36:59 No.1135689 Report

Quoted By:

>>1135683
Are you ok Baconrider? I don't see any commas. I hope you didn't get a stroke.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Dec 2017 19:05:51 No.1135921 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128546
> 60km is easily enough to go to work and back
No.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Dec 2017 19:58:39 No.1135947 Report

Quoted By:

The future of charging stations is obviously charging vehicels.

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

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BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sat 23 Dec 2017 03:49:34 No.1137888 Report

Quoted By:

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

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BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Sun 31 Dec 2017 04:06:34 No.1140517 Report

Quoted By:

ineedone., city is Too far.,
,itsa new market., all can compete.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jan 2018 02:55:09 No.1140837 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128891
We ain't gonna conquer/colonize space with solar panels and soybeans you hippie faggot.

Nuclear is the future. Solar is an inefficient eyesore

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jan 2018 10:33:50 No.1140936 Report

Quoted By: >>1141105

>>1128544
>70hp might not be enough
>example posted is literally half that (34hp)
That's only slightly more horsepower than you'd get from having a team of niggers power your car.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jan 2018 10:36:44 No.1140937 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128632
Well every breath you take produces emissions too so please do the world a favor and kill yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jan 2018 10:40:11 No.1140940 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128896
>drive more, sit more, eat more
Sounds great, asshole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jan 2018 19:26:05 No.1141089 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128520
>What is the future of charging stations?
Gasoline pumps.
Instead of desalinization plants we will have jet fuel synthesis plants.

Physics says pure electric, pure combustion, and hybrids are objectively shit. The best form of non-fixed transportation is extended range electric. All the benefits of electric and combustion, none of the the downsides of electric.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jan 2018 19:37:25 No.1141096 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128632
>obfuscation is more important than reality/logic because i'm a faggot and feels over reals
... wew

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jan 2018 20:12:30 No.1141105 Report

Quoted By:

>>1140936
You'd need 34hp of whipping power just to get them to do it though

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jan 2018 20:40:13 No.1141113 Report

Quoted By: >>1141126

>>1128520
>What is the future of charging stations?
Shall we get this 'discussion' back on track, and kick the /pol/ retards out back to their containment unit? Your bullshit isn't welcome here, /pol/. Fuck the fuck off.

Now, then, OP: For starters, you do understand that the solar array in your pic doesn't generate enough power to properly charge even one EV, right? Takes much more than that, at least for what they themselves can generate on-the-spot. Most charging stations will have to be tied to the grid, but of course solar arrays like that can have any excess power generated stored in a battery bank.

That's public charging stations, though. As EVs become more ubiquitos, people will have charging stations installed at their homes so they can more effectively charge their EV overnight. A mere 120V 15A won't do it. Home charging stations are 220V and higher amperage like the public charging stations, but not requiring immediate payment (it's just straight onto your electric bill) and cheaper (public stations make a profit). Apartment complexes will feel compelled to install charging stations (new complexes first, older ones later so they can compete better for tennants), and eventually every parking space for tennants will have one, tied directly to their units' electric meter. Businesses are already installing them, shopping centers are installing them, and even some gas stations. It's happening, slowly, but it's definitely happening.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jan 2018 21:26:03 No.1141126 Report

Quoted By:

>>1141113
>literal marxists are permitted, but not anything reasonable
great standard you've got going there.

>electricity viability memes
Electric vehicles are inherently a viability meme, why even bother to worry about the viability of the infrastructure?

>It's happening, slowly, but it's definitely happening.
And they shall all become obsolete the moment the first properly designed extended range electric vehicle is put into production.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Streetscooter_Post_Flotte_2016.jpg, 298KiB, 2000x1333

Anonymous Wed 03 Jan 2018 10:41:46 No.1141627 Report

Quoted By: >>1141661 >>1143654

business is going electric first, so most charging stations don't look fancy at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 03 Jan 2018 13:37:17 No.1141661 Report

Quoted By: >>1143654

>>1141627
>most charging stations don't look fancy at all
These are slow overnight chargers, not your fast charger for long distances.

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

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BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Wed 10 Jan 2018 04:09:53 No.1143467 Report

Quoted By:

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSCN5164 (2).jpg, 760KiB, 3352x1555

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Wed 10 Jan 2018 04:13:17 No.1143471 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jan 2018 04:14:03 No.1143472 Report

Quoted By:

>>1128896
>Elon Musk says he'll build a Tesla charging station in LA that is set up like ‘an old school drive-in'
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/08/elon-musk-tweets-about-an-old-school-drive-in-tesla-charging-station.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jan 2018 20:44:40 No.1143654 Report

Quoted By:

>>1141661
>These are slow overnight charger

and most charging stations will be like
>>1141627
A typical urban business vehicles drives short distances and is not used over night. You got plenty of time to recharge. Many private cars will slow charge at home as well.

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