/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1190892

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Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 16:09:36 No.1190892 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1190893 >>1190894 >>1190945 >>1191041 >>1191222 >>1191278 >>1191311 >>1191312 >>1191491 >>1191778 >>1192777 >>1195263

Why are Republicans so anti-transit?

Transit is good for the local economy, good for home values, and saves money in the public budget.
Also, pedestrian and transit-friendly development is a much better investment than urban sprawl.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 16:15:39 No.1190893 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190892
The "American Dream" they crusade for has decayed from their ideal of small town USA to shitty coarse-grained unwalkable car-centric suburbs devoid of those things they claim to want in their "community".

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 16:19:50 No.1190894 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190892
because they suck the (((corporate))) dick. Massively.
/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 16:21:59 No.1190896 Report

Quoted By: >>1190899

because they don't want to spend government money on projects that don't benefit their voters. most cities vote democratic, most rural areas vote republican.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 16:45:53 No.1190899 Report

Quoted By: >>1190910 >>1190915

>>1190896
Most Republicans live in the suburbs. Most Americans live in city areas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 17:11:15 No.1190910 Report

Quoted By: >>1190922 >>1190924 >>1195274

>Why do people not support raising taxes and spending (b)millions on a huge money pit that is rife with corruption?
Gee, I dunno'...

>>1190899
>Implying most people don't try to get out of cities, where the schools are better, your money goes further, and everything is just better.
But please, try to break this down into a right vs. left or black vs. white thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 17:23:21 No.1190915 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190899
people =! voters
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2013/04/how-density-your-county-affects-how-you-vote/5066/

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 17:25:06 No.1190916 Report

Quoted By: >>1190919 >>1194687

Multiethnic societies have lower internal trust and less willingness to spend on common welfare since there is little sens of commonness. You can balance this issue by developing a form of civic religion, which America was very successful at until the 80s but no longer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 17:36:43 No.1190919 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190916
which explains the multicultural makeup of the modern GOP.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 17:52:43 No.1190922 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190910
But transit is far cheaper than highways, which are incredibly expensive and continue to suck the public budget after they’re built.

What a dumb thing to say. Try reading up on transportation issues before posting next time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 17:54:13 No.1190924 Report

Quoted By: >>1190932

>>1190910
Actually people have been increasingly moving to the cities. This is the first time in our country’s history most Americans have lived in urban areas, and the first time multi family construction has outgrown single-family.

You sound really uninformed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 18:14:24 No.1190932 Report

Quoted By: >>1190935 >>1190936

>>1190924
>Implying it's out of desire rather than need.

We've had mass urban migrations before, pal, and it wasn't because people thought cities and urban areas are any more paragons of living quality than they were then.

You also have areas that were formerly classified as suburban areas now either annexed directly into, or simply counted as urban areas for census figures due to growth. But feel free to tell me that urban living is great because you have 3 sushi bars and 5 coffee shops you can go to while stepping between puddles of hobo piss.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 18:24:51 No.1190935 Report

Quoted By: >>1190938 >>1191014

>>1190932
Fun fact: The suburban model is only made possible by billions in government subsidies.

And actually a lot of people in the suburbs only live there because there’s few other options in America. It’s not like we have decent transit systems here. That’s why there are so many right-leaning urbanists. American suburbs only became a thing because of decades of social engineering by the federal government. It’s not sustainable.

If you want to learn about development I can recommend a few good books.

And no I’m not implying it’s about desire vs. need, I’m stating it and pointing it out. People are paying a lot to move to city centers and have been since 2010. It’s great and it’s not taking away anyone’s cars or taking away anyone’s cardboard suburb house. It’s just offering a new product people are glad to pay for.
Even though Trump’s tarriffs have raised the cost of construction, multi family continues to grow. It’s awesome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 18:28:43 No.1190936 Report

Quoted By: >>1190937 >>1191062 >>1192943

>>1190932
Suburban areas have always been classified as being part of an urban area. They’re a shitty compromise between urban and rural, but for data-collection purposes they’re definitely in the rural category.
It’s not like you’re allowed to grow anything on it or raise livestock. You can’t even put up a fence in your front yard in the suburbs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 18:30:59 No.1190937 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190936
>definitely in the urban* category

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 18:33:57 No.1190938 Report

Quoted By: >>1190941 >>1190961 >>1195788

>>1190935
It's all a cycle. People will get tired of paying fortunes to live in what become slums and have no privacy and move back out. It's happened before, it will happen again.

You "transit and development" buffs are so sanctimonious and talk about "efficiency of services" as if that's how people decide where to live and work.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 18:40:54 No.1190941 Report

Quoted By: >>1190946

>>1190938
>herp I don’t understand the issue and I admit my point was disproven so I’m gonna pretend you’re being all high and mighty

Actually places that are walkable and transit-friendly have consistently had the highest real estate values in the world, as opposed to suburbs which got hurt he hardest by the recession.

See the multi-million dollar houses in the OP?
They’ve always been multi-million dollar houses. And now they’re appreciating.

Building transit in a place encourages loads of development and raises property values. Building highways next to a place causes noise pollution, light pollution, and air pollution. Not good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 18:47:39 No.1190945 Report

Quoted By: >>1190964

>>1190892
We're anti-everything government, because they are permanently over-deadline and over-budget, corrupt, and require constant bailouts for all eternity. Nobody is held accountable, and failure is not an option, which breeds corruption and ineptitude.

Nobody is anti-transit. That's retarded. Although the unions guarantee that any private transit business will end up bankrupt and federally subsidized, and eventually nationalized, so there isn't much point to that either.

My personal business means I send and receive several hundred packages per year. Wanna take one guess why I only use FedEx, Purolator, and UPS?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 18:53:27 No.1190946 Report

Quoted By: >>1190948 >>1190965

>>1190941
Great, so the rich get richer and the middle class can't afford to own a home. Weren't you suppossed to be an advocate for the poor? What you're really doing is dangling a carrot of this idealized urban living that none of the people you are allegedly supporting can afford while spending more of their tax money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 18:55:11 No.1190948 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190946
No actually like I said, it’s much more efficient for the public budget. Remember how you were complaining about that in your last post?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 19:27:17 No.1190961 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190938
Maybe the “transit and development” buffs are just people who read up on the issue to understand why we have the problems we do.

So far you haven’t made a single coherent argument tbph. You really should read a book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 19:28:53 No.1190964 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190945
If you were anti-big government why would you support car-dependent infrastructure? It’s a lot more government involvement and spending. Also corruption tbph, for example in my state they just spent $5billion on a highway that’s expected receive minimal ridership but cost us tons in upkeep every year.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 19:40:15 No.1190965 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190946
It spends less tax money. It also encourages innovation and offers consumers more options while decreasing government regulations on land use.
Subsidizing oil makes the rich richer. Building more transit makes middle class homeowners richer, with many documented cases.
Displacement is a popular left-wing meme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 20:08:10 No.1190972 Report

Quoted By: >>1190996 >>1190998 >>1190999 >>1191241 >>1193065

>Morons thinking highways only serve to move people.
Can't get your organic veggies delivered by bus, morons. Highways undoubtedly have greater public utility than some shitty rail line that is justified by "improving property values" and "more efficient waste of taxpayer dollars" despite being underused and reeking of piss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 21:20:12 No.1190995 Report

Quoted By: >>1191004

Republicans are self-important and antisocial. To them life quality means having the means to evade everyone around you, instead of approaching them. That's why they see no reason to fund projects that serve a social purpose. Likewise a lot of them view taxes as theft because "it's just muh hard earned money benefitting someone else and that's not fair because it's MINE".

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 21:23:38 No.1190996 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190972
A bus is just a truck with seats

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 21:26:43 No.1190998 Report

Quoted By: >>1191010

>>1190972
Really makes me wonder how they transported vegetables before the highway network, and why they have to be transported across half the country in the first place when basically the same ones are growing in my neighbor's garden.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 21:27:12 No.1190999 Report

Quoted By: >>1191000 >>1191009 >>1193066 >>1193210

>>1190972
Actually, (heavy) rail is the most efficient way to move freight. Moving a ton of organic veggies on a "shitty rail line" is way cheaper and better for the enviroment than by truck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 21:28:58 No.1191000 Report

Quoted By: >>1191813 >>1193067

>>1190999
If only loaded rail cars weren't parked in some yard in the middle of nowhere for two weeks at a time. Fresh produce will NEVER arrive in time with rail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 21:46:56 No.1191004 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190995
this
then they get depression from their antisocial lifestyle and have to pump themselves full of pills
wew

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 21:54:59 No.1191009 Report

Quoted By: >>1191017

>>1190999
>He says this to the man that works for the god damn railroad.

And no, nobody builds pig yards in the middle of cities where permitting and property costs are massive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 21:56:11 No.1191010 Report

Quoted By: >>1191011 >>1191013 >>1191071

>>1190998
People didn't live in cities hundreds of miles away from farms.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 21:57:31 No.1191011 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191010
Correct, and we've now come full circle to identifying the real problem: suburbs.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 22:02:31 No.1191013 Report

Quoted By: >>1191068 >>1191112 >>1193731 >>1193778

>>1191010
>millions of Americans even in so-called "cities" living on half acre or one acre lots, some of which have 80% sterile useless lawn coverage
>WE CAN'T POSSIBLY GROW FOOD IN THE "CITY", WE NEED TO GET IT FROM HUNDREDS OF MILES AWAY

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 22:03:23 No.1191014 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190935
book recs please

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 22:19:18 No.1191017 Report

Quoted By: >>1191019

>>1191009
>nobody builds pig yards in the middle of a city.

San Bernadino, LATC, Hobart, Commerce, Oakland, literally almost every Chicago Global. Those are all just pig yards. Not including yards like West Colton.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 22:21:57 No.1191019 Report

Quoted By: >>1191021

>>1191017
And how old are they? Railroads and other business are not acquiring land like that anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 22:27:50 No.1191021 Report

Quoted By: >>1191030

>>1191019
No need to acquire the land when you have the infrastructure already and can just redevelop it into intermodal yards. Besides, the railroads were ready to build a new Global in LA, which would've involved acquiring new land. All besides the point, rails are still far more efficient and timely than trucks. If they weren't the railroads wouldn't be in business.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 22:53:41 No.1191030 Report

Quoted By: >>1191048

>>1191021
Fuckin' hell dude, I work for a railroad. I know what kind of business we're in, and buying up lots of expensive land in city centers to run pigs isn't it. You buy cheap land in the suburbs/rural areas and then truck it in about 50-100 miles. You still need highways and (sub)urban sprawl isn't alleviated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 23:22:53 No.1191041 Report

Quoted By: >>1195796

>>1190892
It's two things.
One, it's lobbyists and nimbys.
Two, most of the plans being put out for mass transit are pants on head retarded.
Look at Florida and Sunrail and brightline for example of dumb shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 23:39:08 No.1191046 Report

Quoted By:

God, guns and gasoline!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 23:44:43 No.1191048 Report

Quoted By: >>1191053

>>1191030
That tends to be for low commodity routes. I.E. UP's hub in NM and a lot of the newer eastern hubs built by NS and CSX. Generally routes that see a constant stream of traffic (Chicago, LA basin) have either new yards built (Global facilities), or old yards (San bernadino, LATC, Hobart) rebuilt for intermodal in the heart of the cities. A huge reason Shippers dump so much traffic onto the BNSF Z trains is that the yards in Chicago and LA are close to their distribution facilities and don't need to be trucked more than a few miles. Bein real good at sitting on a unit for 12 hours and praying to god you have enough seniority to not get furloughed when the economy takes a shit doesn't mean you know everything about logistics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 18 May 2018 23:55:30 No.1191053 Report

Quoted By: >>1191100

>>1191048
>Sitting on 4chan and reading industry rags means I know more than people that work the industry.

You're so desperate to prove your smattering of knowledge that you've lost sight of the real argument. That you still need highways to move people and goods and that they're a better use of public resources than throwing money away on some underutilized and expensive money sink like trams and commuter trains that will only help the property values of a privileged few.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 00:16:17 No.1191062 Report

Quoted By: >>1191069 >>1191070 >>1195797

>>1190936
>You can’t even put up a fence in your front yard in the suburbs.
Why?, I thought murica was the land of freedom.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 00:27:23 No.1191068 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191013
The suburbs don’t allow you to build a fence in your front yard, grow food, raise livestock on your land. It’s also the density that doesn’t allow you to run mass transit. It’s the worst of both worlds.

And they didn’t come about from consumer preference, they came into existence from government engineering.

Don’t get me wron there is a place for suburbs and always has been, but not nearly the way it is now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 00:29:24 No.1191069 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191062
It’s just an old law that nobody ever thought about. The first “railroad suburbs” wanted to have an open-air feel so they banned front fencing.

Today in my city there are old houses and I can tell they used to have really nice front fences and walls but I guess time got to them and you can’t rebuild them. Recently we began to allow it though and it’s pretty cool. It’s really good for the neighborhood, increases safety and gives more decor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 00:31:29 No.1191070 Report

Quoted By: >>1191208 >>1195801

>>1191062
Suburbs have so many land regulations on what you can do it would make your head spin...derpublicans think it’s some symbol of capitalism and you’re owning the land but really you’re not allowed to do anything with your own land. You can’t even operate a bed and breakfast from your house. Or build an addition in your backyard to let a college student live there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 00:34:00 No.1191071 Report

Quoted By: >>1191072

>>1191010
You realize the only reason cities are hundreds of miles away from farms is because suburbs eat up all the land, right?
When you go to Europe as soon as you leave the city you’re right in the suburbs.

Also your entire argument is a strawman tbph. No one’s saying get rid of highways, just run other forms of transportation that are cheaper, safer, less polluting, and better for land values. There’s literally not a single coherent argument against it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 00:35:02 No.1191072 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191071
>right in the countryside*

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 01:43:33 No.1191085 Report

Quoted By: >>1191088 >>1191121 >>1191185 >>1191194 >>1191274 >>1191650 >>1193725

>spend billions of tax dollars subsidizing oil
>spend billions of tax dollars building freeways
>spend billions of tax dollars maintaining and policing freeways and roads
>spend billions of tax dollars fighting wars for oil in the Middle East
>spend billions of tax dollars bailing out shitty manufacturers

BUT FUNDING A BUS ROUTE WOULD BE SOCIALISM.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 01:46:58 No.1191088 Report

Quoted By: >>1191239

>>1191085
Cheap oil benefits so many more people and industries than your overpriced bus route.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 02:27:44 No.1191100 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191053
I could say the same applies to you. There are plenty of people saying highways are more expensive money pits, less effeicent, and that public transit is far better but you're ignoring. Spoiler alert. The privileged few aren't riding public transit. Another spoiler alert. You're not the only railroader who's ever heard of 4chan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 02:47:51 No.1191112 Report

Quoted By: >>1191218

>>1191013
tried this. Most of my plants on my front lawn have gotten stolen. Even decorative ones. I've given up on the front part of my property

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 03:30:30 No.1191121 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191085
You wouldn't even need to fund mass transit if the transportation market wasn't so reliant on subsidies

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 06:53:05 No.1191185 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191085
/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 07:33:43 No.1191194 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191085
I agree with the general idea of your post, but as depressing as it might be, war is one of the most profitable enterprises out there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 08:12:40 No.1191208 Report

Quoted By: >>1191238 >>1195804

>>1191070
They seem to have more regulations than any "socialist" country. Here in Finland there are no regulations on growing food in your yard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 08:53:23 No.1191218 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191112
You should plant stinging nettles kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 09:36:55 No.1191222 Report

Quoted By: >>1191240

>>1190892
>and saves money in the public budget.
no

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 11:37:18 No.1191238 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191208
Here you can have even a 2-3 chickens on you small garden, it counts as domestic pet and many people of course grow some vegetables on their garden to feel the farmer experience usually lettuces onions potatoes and tomatoes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 11:50:06 No.1191239 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191088
Only for truckers

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 11:51:08 No.1191240 Report

Quoted By: >>1191331

>>1191222
Yes

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 11:54:42 No.1191241 Report

Quoted By: >>1193725

>>1190972
>Highways undoubtedly have greater public utility than some shitty rail line

*blocks your path*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 14:20:24 No.1191274 Report

Quoted By: >>1191290 >>1191347

>>1191085
The problem is this.
Orlando metro area wanted busses. We got them they come once a hour whenever the fuck they feel like and have no real timetable. How is that reliable transportation? If transport is done smart I don't see the reason to to have it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 14:34:30 No.1191278 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190892
They are all brainwashed neocon cuckolds

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 15:01:32 No.1191290 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191274

orlando's only hope is a nuke. it is the worst planned city on earth imo

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 16:19:56 No.1191311 Report

Quoted By: >>1191344 >>1191347 >>1191444 >>1193725

>>1190892
>Why are HUMANS so anti-transit?
Fixed that for you.

How many times do we need to go over this?
People don't LIKE buses and trains and other public transit for all their transportation needs. They like having their own CARS so they can go where they like when they like and not have to be crowded in with a bunch of smelly poor and weird people.

Cars are a STATUS SYMBOL, too, so you're not going to convince people to appear POOR when they don't have to, and buses and shit are for POOR PEOPLE.

GIVE IT UP. You will never convince people who have afford a CAR to not have a CAR. EVER.

In the future there will be even more CARS because they will be electric and therefore cheaper to buy and maintain and electricity is cheap. There will still be buses for the POOR people but people who can afford them will have a CAR, maybe even TWO CARS or THREE CARS. You can't stop it, you can't change it, you're wasting your time even talking about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 16:27:12 No.1191312 Report

Quoted By: >>1191322 >>1195806

>>1190892
Because it's the American dream.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 16:59:09 No.1191322 Report

Quoted By: >>1195806

>>1191312
A chicken in every pot and two cars in every garage

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 17:43:00 No.1191331 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191240
How?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 18:24:00 No.1191344 Report

Quoted By: >>1191429

>>1191311
You’re utterly retarded.
What isn’t strawman in your post is completely wrong. I don’t even have the time to go over it cause it was already addressed earlier if you read the thread.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 18:33:22 No.1191347 Report

Quoted By: >>1191453

>>1191274
Anti-transiters haven’t grasped two major things, because they haven’t thought it through (you can see the evidence in their posts like this >>1191311)

1. They for some reason think when you run a bus route you’re taking away people’s cars. I don’t know who told them that but they sperg out about it.
The bus routes are good because they offer another form of transit. The key to a healthy city is always “offer as many transportation options as possible”. When you run a bus route you’re giving another option, you’re not taking away anyone’s options. And for pic related there are private mass transit companies all over the world.

2. Development patterns follow infrastructure/transportation patterns. When you build freeways, you get sprawl, and need to build more freeways. When you build transit, you get denser development which supports more transit. If you have a sprawled city like Orlando, ridership isn’t going to be high at first. But since Orlando’s growing, and getting denser, transit will continually get more use and continually get better funding and continually become more cost-effective. Transportation and development form a feedback loop.
The difference is, highways are more expensive and ruinproperty values, where transit is more feasible and helps property values.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 19:24:55 No.1191364 Report

Quoted By: >>1191429 >>1191442

Why is it “socialism” to spend $1mil on a bus route but it’s “capitalism” to spend $5bil on a highway?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 22:15:57 No.1191429 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191344
>bothering to respond to the GIVE IT UP troll
Remember that thread where he posted about 50 posts that all included 'give it up'? Yeah. Never respond to this troll. Never feed him.

>>1191364
Apparently capitalism means being antisocial

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 22:54:48 No.1191442 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191364
On a bus you might see a black. In a car you usually can't tell what race the other people are. Therefore it follows that buses are for the blacks. We can't allow blacks to benefit from spending, in any way shape or form. That's welfare and welfare is why I hate the blacks. It follows therefore that we must build more roads, and certainly no passenger rail let alone bus service.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 22:55:50 No.1191444 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191311
>Cars are a STATUS SYMBOL
For third world people, sure. That's why Lagos and Manila are so awful to live in.

Anti transit = third worlder mentality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 May 2018 23:30:36 No.1191453 Report

Quoted By: >>1191484 >>1191506

>>1191347
Im not anti-transit in fact I want Japan tier transit.
I want buses that run on time that feed into rail that loops around areas with development and feeds into true HSR. But instead i get a unreliable bus system, a shitty rail line runs at 1 train per hour which the buses dont feed into and brightline a "HSR" that doesnt even have a rail connection with sunrail.

But whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 01:12:41 No.1191484 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191453
Sorry I wasn’t preaching to you I was just explaining the transit chicken-and-egg situation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 01:55:52 No.1191491 Report

Quoted By: >>1191496

>>1190892
>Why are republicans anti-transit
Because all politics is economic class politics. Rich people, whom the republicans represent, do not want federal money to go to public services. They want federal money going to themselves.

Sad that the republican party went this way. I mean, theyve been the party of the rich for over 100 years but pre-Reagan, they at least did some shit like create the EPA to keep a somewhat moderate appearance.

But once Reagan won, the republicans realized they didnt need to do anything at all to serve the common man. Republicans were shocked when Reagan won necause he was a shit candidate. And from then on, they knew Americans are easily conned and require no moderation, only more swindlery.

Reagan wrecked America, Bush followed up with a huge wrecking ball of his own and Trump dropped a nuke on the country. Those 3 presidents have exploded the debt to a likes never before seen in American history while at the same time shrinking the tax rates on the richest.

It's clear cut: republicans stand for the rich and the rich dont need to support infrastucre (let alone transit) at all to keep winning. The common man is up to his eyeballs in debt and in need of transit badly. Too bad they arent cutting the big checks to republicans

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 02:20:01 No.1191496 Report

Quoted By: >>1191534

>>1191491
Yeah you’re right. It’s just that supporting transit would reduce infrastructure and road costs overall, while increasing land values, so I don’t see why they don’t get behind it if they really want to cut the deficit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:00:03 No.1191506 Report

Quoted By: >>1191716

>>1191453
Brightline aint HSR, but it's probably the best we're going to get in the US for quite some time without public funding.

Well... unless you're in Texas and that private bullet train project ends up working out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 03:01:03 No.1191507 Report

Quoted By: >>1191532

It truly boggles my mind. I live in Austin which has a horrendous traffic problem. Not just because it's bad already but because its getting worse way too fast to do anything about it.

Texans have this awful mentality of bitching about problems but don't want to actually pay to fix these problems.

And the car-faithful population that bitches about traffic doesn't want to pay for public transport because "I'm not gonna use it" even though other people using it makes traffic better! It's ridiculous. Austin is at least taking huge steps to improve its cycling infrastructure so that helps. But they need commuter buses. Badly. It would make such a difference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 04:26:42 No.1191532 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191507
>bitch about paying for public transit
>bitch about spending time in traffic
MAKE UP YOUR GODDAMN MINDS PEOPLE

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 04:35:20 No.1191534 Report

Quoted By: >>1191679

>>1191496
>they really want to cut the deficit.
they don't - anytime you hear Republicans talk about "fiscal responsibility" that's code for cutting spending on things they don't like (like food stamps), but does not include spending on things they do like, no matter how fraudulent and wasteful that spending becomes (defense contracts).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 15:39:14 No.1191650 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191085
>neo cons and the new right are 100% the same
C'mon this is just pure dishonesty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 17:30:03 No.1191679 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191534
Well, yeah. Anytime you hear a politician say anything it's bullshit 99% of the time. Republicans virtue signal about fiscal responsibility the same way Democrats will virtue signal about social justice or the environment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 18:30:26 No.1191700 Report

Quoted By: >>1191776 >>1193727

I don't want government roads, let alone government transit.

I would rather have private toll roads and private transit to keep all the piss smelling niggers out of my neighborhood. It is just a zoning issue at that point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 19:29:13 No.1191716 Report

Quoted By: >>1191775

>>1191506
The thing is it won't work for Orlando.
There is no feed system it's more expensive and time consuming than flying or driving. I have to walk half a hour to get on a bus that's going to take a hour and a half to get to the airport where brightline feeds. So it's a 6hr total to Miami. It takes 4 hours to drive there and it cost about 50 dollars in gas money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 22:34:25 No.1191775 Report

Quoted By: >>1192848

>>1191716
When you build mass transit, denser development forms around it.

I think if it absolutely didn’t work then a private company wouldn’t have spent billions of dollars building it. It’s not even done.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IwcrHEZ.jpg, 97KiB, 562x570

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 22:44:14 No.1191776 Report

Quoted By: >>1191781

>>1191700
Fuck off retard.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 8438001_1.jpg, 170KiB, 1339x687

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 22:45:27 No.1191778 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190892
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-zHpvGTWQs

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 20 May 2018 22:57:58 No.1191781 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191776
The irony is in a free-market society roads would be really small and people would depend way more on mass transit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 May 2018 01:28:00 No.1191813 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191000
Only because rail can't compete with trucks when they're massively subsidized, so rail companies only do what they can do well; ultra-economic snail freight. If truckers weren't welfare queens, rail companies would do more express freight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 May 2018 01:33:32 No.1191814 Report

Quoted By:

The same reason Democrats are anti-transit; the oil (((lobby))).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 16:33:28 No.1192772 Report

Quoted By: >>1192802 >>1192832

Why should we care? No one stops a company from doing it. It shouldn't be payed by taxes. Why should rural voters want their money spent so that people who live in the city get something nice?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1383424987084[1].jpg, 77KiB, 1280x720

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 17:20:35 No.1192777 Report

Quoted By: >>1192788 >>1192793 >>1193727

>>1190892
I moved out of the city to get AWAY from blacks and poor people.

They just put a bus stop out front of my next door neighbor's business and I see him out every other day picking up garbage out of the grass. 25 feet down and it would be me.

Fuck busses and fuck shitskins.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 17:43:49 No.1192788 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192777
Sounds like a nigger problem, not a public transport problem. America has this big problem and the entire infrastructure is designed around ignoring it.
Genocide them already you dolts

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 17:59:08 No.1192793 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192777
sorry anon, I legit feel bad for you and your neighbor. I live in a white area and work in a black area and it is unreal how much trash is on the ground in the black area. It doesn't cost anything so throw trash away so it blows my mind why blacks will throw trash anywhere. I often see them throw trash out of their car window too. If I wasn't a 105lb white girl I'd tell them to pick it up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 18:21:04 No.1192802 Report

Quoted By: >>1192835 >>1192841

>>1192772
Roads shouldn't be payed with taxes too, yet here we are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 19:14:23 No.1192832 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192772
Well a majority of Americans live in cities now. But to answer your question, urban dwellers subsidize a massive number of things for people in sparsely-populated areas.
And to answer your question further, it’s cheaper to run transit than build/maintain new highways and roads. So everyone should want to fund it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 19:19:30 No.1192835 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192802
This desu

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO North-split-indy.png, 253KiB, 800x430

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 19:45:29 No.1192841 Report

Quoted By: >>1192903

>>1192802
>highway users pay less than half the costs of road use
>our roads are literally falling apart because of this
>"maybe we should reduce our dependency on roads and cars"
>propose building trains because theyre more efficient
>"bUt trAiNs DoNt maKe a pRoFit"
>state DOT instead spends several billion dollars on widening freeway
kill me.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO gal3.jpg, 684KiB, 3000x1943

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 20:00:20 No.1192848 Report

Quoted By: >>1192885

>>1191775
Tbh I dont think the investors actually expect brightline itself to make a direct profit (for now at least). They're using it as a loss-leader to funnel people to their developments at the stations. It's the Hong Kong model of transit.
Worst comes to worst they can always shut the train down and still make money off the buildings, just not as much as they would with the train.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO mutt1.jpg, 113KiB, 854x720

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 22:02:43 No.1192874 Report

Quoted By: >>1192879 >>1192934 >>1192955

WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE STILL ARGUING WITH MUTTS?

TRUTH BOMB: People love riding trains. Nobody likes driving a car.

Mutts drive cars because they have ruined their country and their cities, so it's the only reasonable way to move around. And since they're dumb mutts they feel the need to pretend like it's a good thing out of spite. But ask any mutt outside of 4chan, ALL of them hate driving, and ALL of them if they've ever been to Europe will talk about how great it is to take the train.

However, mutts, like the name implies, are dumb, mentally impaired. They believe anything that television tells them without questioning it, and if television tells them that public transit is SOCIALISM, they'll believe it. And if television tells them that highways and suburbs are FREEDOM, they'll believe it too.

So there's no point in arguing with mutts. We know we're right, they know we're right. But they'll never admit to it, because it conflicts with that putrid part of their brain that tells them that public transport is socialism, since tv told them so, even if it goes against their own personal experience.

We shouldn't be angry at mutts. It's not their fault, they can't help it. They only deserve our pity, because they will never be able to enjoy the immense pleasure of taking a train EVERY SINGLE DAY. Sorry, muttbros. Stay jelly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 22:18:07 No.1192879 Report

Quoted By: >>1193729

>>1192874
>not living close enough to walk to work, grocery store, place of religion, barbers, a school and more
The only true /n/ is walking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 22:29:16 No.1192885 Report

Quoted By: >>1192886 >>1192930 >>1192933 >>1193168

>>1192848
>They're using it as a loss-leader to funnel people to their developments at the stations.
funny you should mention it, but I never considered it before but I was just watching a thing on english-language NHK about this exact thing. A japanese train company started after a lot of lines were already established, so the routes they could build didn't really go anywhere. So what they did was build the tracks and then build housing developments all along the routes. One of them ended in a rural area so they built a little family resort park thing. They literally raked in money and became the most successful rail company that everyone else emulated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 22:32:58 No.1192886 Report

Quoted By: >>1192888 >>1192889 >>1193168

>>1192885
>They literally raked in money and became the most successful rail company that everyone else emulated.
It's a viable business model, and it used to be done in the United States as well. Henry Flagler - the guy who established the FEC Railway in the first place - built the lines to connect to his hotels and properties and ended up basically building modern Florida because of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 22:40:49 No.1192888 Report

Quoted By: >>1192890

>>1192886
>modern florida
>a good thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 22:52:51 No.1192889 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192886
what's crazy is that you don't really need to profit from the housing. You can potentially undercut a lot of your competitors in the housing market by selling/renting the homes closer to cost than the competition can, because you're guaranteed 2 fares daily--cash--from the breadwinner going to and from work, plus 2 fares from any other household member who goes anywhere. If they have kids, each kid pays 2 fares per day to go to school. Even if the people own their homes, you still get a rent payment, and in cash every day rather than monthly and waiting for checks to clear, so you have cash on hand every day to handle any business expenses that pop up. It's like a license to print money.
The problem now in the US is that anyone old enough to look for a house or apartment probably already has a car, so they'd want good road support/parking, so then there's really no point in the whole rail aspect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 22:54:04 No.1192890 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192888
Wasn't too bad 'till the 60s and car-centric planning came and fucked everything up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 23:33:51 No.1192903 Report

Quoted By: >>1192907

>>1192841
Jesus Christ that looks like something I'd expect in Houston.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 May 2018 23:44:48 No.1192907 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192903
Houstonian here. Aside from the similarly monstrous Katy Freeway, that's way worse than anything I've seen downtown.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 01:19:53 No.1192930 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192885
Are you talking about that episode with hankyu? If so that's what they did but they wherent the first to do so. Tokyu and keio where doing it before they where forced to merge and did so after as well.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO TrainKWEPHT.jpg, 992KiB, 1700x1215

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 01:47:55 No.1192933 Report

Quoted By: >>1193168

>>1192885

FACT: Henry Flagler's Railraod built key west. Economic development was the direct result of the railroad.

even if brightline doesn't make a large profit, it will boost economic and property value around the stations.

it happened in the past, it happened in japan, and it could happen in the US again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 01:59:10 No.1192934 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192874
>But ask any mutt outside of 4chan, ALL of them hate driving, and ALL of them if they've ever been to Europe will talk about how great it is to take the train.

Pretty much this I hate driving more than an hour.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 02:23:52 No.1192943 Report

Quoted By: >>1192952

>>1190936
Depends on where you are, but yeah I always hated that about suburbs. Most neighborhoods have all kinds of rules on zoning and what you can and cant build. Why have a big lot if you can't do what you want on it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 03:18:59 No.1192952 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192943
>bUT MuH PoPeRtY vaLuEs
God help you if you have a HOA.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 03:41:20 No.1192955 Report

Quoted By: >>1192957 >>1192961 >>1193055

>>1192874
>People love riding trains. Nobody likes driving a car.
OMFG you're a complete idiot.
I'd rather kill myself than have to take an expensive inconvenient train trip. I LIKE TO DRIVE MY PICKUP, I ENJOY IT. I also enjoy not having to have anyone in my personal space while I'm in transit. You're an idiot, kill yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 03:45:10 No.1192957 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192955
>I LIKE TO DRIVE MY PICKUP, I ENJOY IT.
Good for (you). A lot of us don't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 03:53:43 No.1192961 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192955
>pickup

git out Cletus

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 05:36:11 No.1192984 Report

Quoted By: >>1193114

I was pretty seething when I saw that thing about how the R governors in Florida stopped the bullet train. Then I saw how California's bullet train is like 60 billion dollars over budget and won't even work until 2035. Jeb Bush was unironically right, it'll never get fucking done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 11:01:34 No.1193055 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192955
>this level of overcompensation
you're not fooling anyone, MUTT.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 11:51:33 No.1193065 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190972

Hello, tard. So, you seem to never have heard of freight trains ? Too bad, as those run on rails, and do exactly what trucks would do, while polluting much less.

You might switch the goods at the last station to, say, an electric mini-van, for instance (which doesn't require much autonomy) in order not to pollute everything. See, not that difficult...

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 11:53:33 No.1193066 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190999

Are you sure ? I thought the cheapest, most-efficient way to move was huge freighters ships. (of course, it's slow, so ineffective for fresh wares, but for bulky products, it's very fine)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 11:57:16 No.1193067 Report

Quoted By: >>1193072

>>1191000

This is bullshit. If you're ready to pay for it, then it WILL arrive on time. Of course, if you want to pay as little as possible, then the company will offer you a "budget" option, where your freight car will sit and wait until there are enough other cars waiting to go there to make a low-cost, high-profit train.

Now, if you have enough volume, or if you're ready to make up for lost money, then no problem, you can get train moving as soon as you need it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 12:05:08 No.1193072 Report

Quoted By: >>1193079

>>1193067
That's really not how it works at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 12:17:13 No.1193079 Report

Quoted By: >>1193088 >>1193145

>>1193072

Oh, really ? Because you cannot pay for the company to circulate your goods as a priority thing ? You cannot provide a full train, which is ready to drive, and have them merely provide the tractor car and the drivers ?

I know how it works in France, at least: You need a "sillon" (which is a time-slot of a track, reserved for use by your train) to navigate from start to finish, you need the train (with cars, and one or several motorized car(s) to pull/push those), and you need a driver.

Once you have all those, you're all set. And I know for certain that there are offers where you only provide cars, to be included in "composite" trains, and offers where you provide a whole train, they pick it up, and deliver it where you need it (which is used mostly by huge industries, like steel mills, or big factories, etc.)

Why would it work differently in 'murica ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 12:31:06 No.1193088 Report

Quoted By: >>1193093 >>1193095

>>1193079
It's different in America because the rail and the trains are owned by the same people. It's different in America because the trains are bigger, so unless you're running a unit train(of at least 50 cars) to one destination, you're not getting your "own" train run. So what you end up getting is getting all different kinds of cars from different customers put on a train going to the same terminal where these cars will get switched out and go to customers there, or they'll connect to another railroad or another train.

So basically unless you're running coal or grain, and have enough volume to make a whole train, your shit rides in coach.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 12:41:09 No.1193093 Report

Quoted By: >>1193097

>>1193088

So, that's not different. Freight trains are long in France, too. Usually a lot longer, and much heavier, than passenger trains. Here, they mostly circulate at night, but we sometimes see one moving by day - and it seems pretty endless, too, due to the huge number of freight cars.

I've not been able to find clear transit offers for freight cars, however.

Here is the French railways site, for freight. You'll notive that they offer to rent out freight cars, offer to transport single cars, or offer to transport whole trains.

https://www.sncf.com/fr/logistique-transport/activites-ferroviaires/fret-sncf/offres

For Amtrak, however, I've seen an offer to transport privately-owned cars for "sightseeing", so I gather they're talking about private PASSENGER cars, but I couldn't find an offer for freight cars.

Did I miss something ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 12:44:39 No.1193095 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193088
And there are exceptions to this. You have auto trains and oil trains, but getting that kind of volume from one industry isn't normal. Most industries release their handful of cars as they load or empty them and get them pulled the next service day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 12:50:35 No.1193097 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193093
How heavy are you talking? Grain and coal trains are 100-150 cars long and weigh 13,000 to nearly 23,000 tons. That's what railroads really want to run your own train.

Now, when you talk about renting cars it gets more complicated in the US because you can either lease a car from a railroad, lease it from a bank (Wells Fargo and Citi Group have huge railcar leasing operations), or just buy it yourself. It's more common to lease them from leasing companies, however. It really keeps car utilization high.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 13:01:13 No.1193099 Report

Quoted By: >>1193106

Oh, I guess I had missed a thing: It would seem that Amtrak is only for passenger service, and that it only owns a very small part (around Washington DC) of the rail network.

So, I'm guessing that I should have looked at other operators, here.

As for the volume, I'm pretty sure what I said before was still true: If you have enough money, the company won't care. I mean, if you pay, for 5 cars, the same you'd have paid for 150 cars, I'm utterly certain they *will* move your train, even if it looks ridiculously short.

Obviously, it might not be economically interesting to do so, but still, it is doable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 13:26:02 No.1193106 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193099
This is 5 years old, but here's an idea of some pricing.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/library/files/customers/publications-tariffs/8100-archive/csxt-8100-publication4/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjjl4X3t57bAhWF3oMKHThxD2MQFggRMAM&usg=AOvVaw0bK_5o5oa7xihV522ChD__

A special train will cost you $12k plus the actual fee they charge for each car per mile plus $105 for every mile over 110. Shit's expensive as hell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 13:52:46 No.1193114 Report

Quoted By: >>1193416

>>1192984
The Brightline is going ahead in Florida and pretty successfully, it’s growing to include other cities. I think it will eventually go up to Jacksonville.

Also, it’s only going over budget in CA because all the little cities along the way are suing the state. Cities are just trying to get their cut because it’s fucking california.
t. my brother is a transportation engineering professor from Berkeley California. He always talks about how retarded America is with transit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 16:46:45 No.1193145 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193079
For one, freight trains don't actually have formal schedules or timeslots in America. It's more of a "it'll happen when it'll happen" thing.

Intermodal's changing that a bit though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 17:51:23 No.1193168 Report

Quoted By: >>1193189

>>1192885
>>1192886
>>1192933
Yep, exactly the same thing happened with the Underground. Ironically that's what generated most of London's giant suburban sprawl, they had to cut it off via greenbelt post-WWII.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 18:19:34 No.1193189 Report

Quoted By: >>1193204 >>1193225

>>1193168
Not the guy(s) you responded to but I agree.
Transit-oriented development is super popular in the US right now and it’s only been growing the past few years. As more dense development happens, more transit becomes feasible, spurring more dense development.
Also London doesn’t have bad suburban sprawl. It’s just a large city, that’s natural.

Los Angeles used to have a big rail line that the rail company just kind of used as a real estate tool, but stupidly the guys built suburbs instead of development that would actually support rail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 18:42:56 No.1193204 Report

Quoted By: >>1193217

>>1193189
>Los Angeles used to have a big rail line that the rail company just kind of used as a real estate tool, but stupidly the guys built suburbs instead of development that would actually support rail.
Streetcar suburbs aren't that bad. They were much more lively, dense, and organic than their later soulless, car-driven counterparts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 18:54:26 No.1193210 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190999
Only over vast distance

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 19:17:35 No.1193217 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193204
I’m not saying they’re bad, they’re great. But in America where the govt heavily favors car-dependent infrastructure over everything else, it was easier for them to switch to car-driven suburbs than keep being what they were.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 19:24:56 No.1193223 Report

Quoted By: >>1193231 >>1193246 >>1193735

I'm surprised that all of you say that politicans ruined American public transit, while in reality the US is just a shitty place to have trains.
Take Japan. They live densely populated on a straight line. Of course they will favor trains. The US is way too big with a relatively small population. The only way that a good train network will become a real thing is when the cost to do so will sink. So you better hope automation will kick in soon.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO PE_PCC.jpg, 237KiB, 1799x1149

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 19:29:29 No.1193225 Report

Quoted By: >>1193241

>>1193189
Hackshually, since the Pacific Electric was an interurban streetcar-type service, it was relatively cheap to build and operate (compared to proper heavy rail), so it didn't need very dense development to be sustained. Also the type of streetcar suburbs that it fostered were still denser than modern car-based sprawl.
The Pacific Electric's main problem never was a lack of ridership. Even all the way into the 50's it had decent patronage. Its problems were
a) massively subsidized highway construction parallel to its own lines
b) traffic slowing down its trains (especially downtown) and of course
c) being actively shut down by NCL (through Metropolitan Coach Lines which was presided by a former Pacific City Lines exec, PCL in turn being a subsidiary of NCL)
Post-war ridership on the PE was even good enough that they bought some brand new PCC streetcars in the late 1940's.

The Pacific Electric is a rare case of a streetcar system which through ridership and popular support would have been able to keep sustaining at least a large part of the network. A similar example is San Francisco's Muni, which actually did keep some streetcar lines.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO interurbans 1920 midwest map.jpg, 972KiB, 1200x982

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 19:40:02 No.1193231 Report

Quoted By: >>1193242

>>1193223
no

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 19:50:59 No.1193241 Report

Quoted By: >>1193253

>>1193225
Don't forget that many of the streetcar companies had agreed to maintian the parts of their roads their tracks were on. This wasn't really a problem 'till automobile traffic exploded and drove road maintenance costs through the roof.
Most cities also refused to let the companies raise fares or forbid cars from driving on their tracks so the companies went bankrupt. Then the cities tore out the tracks because of the "trains are obsolete" meme, and now we're spending billions of dollars to put them back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 19:51:05 No.1193242 Report

Quoted By: >>1193245 >>1193247

>>1193231
>1920
>When owning a car was expensive as fuck
It all comes down to money

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 19:54:23 No.1193245 Report

Quoted By: >>1193254

>>1193242
>1920
>When car ownership wasn't subsidized as fuck.
It does come down to money. Our government is just not being wise with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 19:54:49 No.1193246 Report

Quoted By: >>1193254

>>1193223
This “argument” has been so, incredibly proven wrong multiple times in this thread. You gotta learn the basics of transport issues.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 19:55:38 No.1193247 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193242
>1920
>before US subsidised the auto industry by building the interstate highways
all those lines ran at a profit and were privately built and maintained until the govt started sucking petro-dollar cock and undercut them with the tax dollars.
how many car companies would be in business if they had to build their own infra?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 20:01:07 No.1193253 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193241
Truth. Though it's undeniable that interurbans would have never been able to stay competitive, suburban-style systems like the PE were 100% competitive, they just couldn't keep up with massive auto, gasoline and highway subsidies, as well as unfair clauses like you mentioned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 20:03:48 No.1193254 Report

Quoted By: >>1193255 >>1193260 >>1193285

>>1193245
>>1193246
Both of you are right and have valid points. Too bad we can't change history. And maintaining the highway system is cheaper then building a rail system. Especially with how cheap cars can get. Plus the advantages cars have over rail.
I like cars, I like trains, I like planes, I like every machine that moves. I wish to see more trains in the US. But I just can't see a major change in the next 30 years or so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 20:07:23 No.1193255 Report

Quoted By: >>1193256

>>1193254
>I like every machine that moves
vibrators?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 20:10:43 No.1193256 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193255
Especially

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 20:15:59 No.1193260 Report

Quoted By: >>1193735

>>1193254
>I like cars, I like trains, I like planes, I like every machine that moves. I wish to see more trains in the US. But I just can't see a major change in the next 30 years or so.
I think we're seeing a change right now. True, cars won't be going away, and true, things won't change overnight, but I think there's been a pretty big shift among how we see these problems, especially among us younger generations. I mean, the idea of trains being obsolete was seriously entertained years ago, but it's laughable now.

My take on it is that cars should stop trying to do everything. It's wasteful, inefficient, and expensive. Cars have a place, but it's in short trips in low density, nonurban locales. We should stop widening freeways in cities and focus on mass transit and maintaining the current road network.

Our current suburbs are just not working. Even if you don't believe in man-made climate change, pretty much everyone agrees gas prices aren't likely to get as cheap as this again. It's going to become VERY expensive to continue our current lifestyle. That's why I think things are going to change.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 May 2018 21:20:59 No.1193285 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193254
>And maintaining the highway system is cheaper then building a rail system.
Such a stupid argument. Over what term? One year?

Having a rail system saves us so much money and energy in so many spin-off ways you can hardly quantify it but it is cheaper, faster and safer than highways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 01:34:08 No.1193416 Report

Quoted By: >>1193417

>>1193114
Does it really matter why it's overbudget though? 60 billion is a lot of money. If the government can't do it efficiently, then it shouldn't be done. Let private companies do it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 01:40:24 No.1193417 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193416
Actually it’s gone over budget for the same reason the private rail in Texas has been stalled for years: idiots in the countryside suing to prevent it and hold it up, funded by oil companies.
And when you consider the billions of oil subsidies and the billions in highways spending and the fact that, unlike highways, it charges a toll to recoup the costs, it suddenly becomes, still, a very reasonable investment.

Yes it matters why it ran over budget. I support it even if it’s $100biion just so Americans can learn why they need HSR and that is worth it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 22:24:43 No.1193725 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191085
>BUS
Perfect except for this. Bus is just a larger cage.
>>1191241
This. In the rural farming areas use pickup trucks, load all the veggies onto a train, train it in. You don't even need a fucking highway system, just collect all the produce to a central haul station along the rail line and send it out at the end of the day. It arrives in the city by morning ready for purchase.
>>1191311
>I could pay a small fortune and risk my life to sit in traffic for three hours with white knuckles from the stress, surrounded by illegal spics, drunk drivers, and cunts on cellphones
>or I could walk to a rail station, read a book while waiting 10 minutes, board a /comfy/ safe light rail, and be taken to my destination while I finish reading, or napping, or anything else I want to do, in the safest per mile transit mode extant
Hmm.
>status symbol
The richest people in the US live in manhattan and there's no point in owning a car there. Businessmen pulling 3x your income ride the subway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 22:30:53 No.1193727 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191700
You know, if it was all privatized I would be a massive improvement. No more fucking over the majority for the minority of cripples and mentally ill, no more forced egality. It would be fashionable. Live in a neighborhood that has a private train line run right into downtown. People would pay a fortune for that. It would be more equitable because as it is now suburb fuckwads are tax leeching niggers who demand we support their lifestyle choices on our dime. If they actually had to pay for their fair share of the road networks they use to cage 50 miles each way every day and night the suburbs would be deserted by the next month.
But it's all government sponsored so, like every other government run program, massive money waste, behind schedule, massively over budget, and shitty final result that's so dysfunctional you get the urge to scrap the whole affair and try again. School system, healthcare, any agency run by the government you can name, warfare, infrastructure. Massive incompetence.
>>1192777
Yes cagey, better to destroy your entire nation and live knee deep in shit than be so politically incorrect as to acknowledge the nigger problem and take a step to solve it. Just go white flight out to montana.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 22:33:20 No.1193729 Report

Quoted By:

>>1192879
This. I moved within cycling distance of downtown and the grocery store, but when my lease runs out I'm moving to somewhere that's all in walking distance. Tired of "commuting" even if it's on a bike. Just a pain in the ass, and good luck dressing up for a night out, or biking home from a bar tipsy. Fuck it. Walkable cities are god tier, bikeable cities are top tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 22:36:50 No.1193731 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191013
>implying that the majority of people living in suburbs have the time or ability to maintain garden bigger than a couple plants

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 May 2018 22:41:38 No.1193735 Report

Quoted By: >>1193771

>>1193223
No one is arguing for trains in rural kansas. I want usable commuter and intraurban rail in the, say, top 40 largest cities. That's all I fucking ask for. The US urban density would be just as dense as japan if it wasn't built around the fucking car. You could condense atlanta into 10% of its current footprint and put in a few streetcar lines instead of having the shitshow it is now.
>>1193260
The younger generation (millennilols and gen z) are strongly urbanist and anti-cage. If I had capital to throw around I'd be making some investments based on that. Either way, poorfag as I am, it'll be good for me in the end when all the white kids come back to the cities and gentrify them. Gets my /trv/ness pants-cumming wet and will make my daily 9-5 more enjoyable and convenient. We're seeing the reversal starting where spics and niggers go to the suburb mcmansions, killing the boomers' retirement funds by dragging down their property values, and the whites are moving to cities and "up and coming" urban areas in particular, driving up the rents and being white law-obeying taxpayers, forcing the niggers out. It's beautiful. Things will look much different in 20 years. What the boomers did to us (throw niggers on our heads and ruin our neighborhoods) is going to come around and happen to them. Not to mention the nursing homes, which pay like $9 an hour with no benefits at all for their workers with garbage working conditions, are staffed entirely by barely literate hispanics and straight outta africa jiggaboons. It's hilarious justice.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO cali_irl.jpg, 49KiB, 405x590

Anonymous Sat 26 May 2018 00:24:18 No.1193771 Report

Quoted By:

>>1193735
>killing the boomers' retirement funds by dragging down their property values
hahaha no.
that would happen if boomer nimbys hadnt realized all they need to do to keep their property values high is to strangle urban cores to death with SFR zoning. they even somehow managed to convince poor califags they're on their side (theyre not).
so the boomer nimbys get to reap all the benefits while passing on the costs to us. as per fucking usual.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 May 2018 00:52:34 No.1193778 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191013
Many Home Owners Associations forbid gardening other than decorative non-edibles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 May 2018 19:49:09 No.1194004 Report

Quoted By: >>1194020 >>1194029 >>1194087

>high speed rail proposal
>hundreds of millions of dollars
>only links NYC, DC, Chicago, LA
>funded by federal taxes from everyone

Hard pass

Know what though, I'd gladly chip in for a project that specifically excluded the current 10 largest cities and metro areas. Give the little guys a chance to grow

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 May 2018 21:06:24 No.1194020 Report

Quoted By: >>1194026 >>1194098

>>1194004
>a project that specifically excluded the current 10 largest cities and metro areas
you know how HSR opponents constantly whine aboit how trains will be underutilized and expensive boondoggles? your idea would prove them right.
by their nature, more people will be travelling to and from big cities than small ones.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 May 2018 21:18:08 No.1194026 Report

Quoted By: >>1194029

>>1194020
Then they can pay for it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 May 2018 21:39:41 No.1194029 Report

Quoted By:

>>1194004
>is cheaper than highways
>saves everyone’s federal tax money
>savings increase exponentially over time

Fixed that for you.

>>1194026
Republicans block transit projects even when they’re privately-funded. They can’t do anything right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 May 2018 00:32:30 No.1194087 Report

Quoted By: >>1194090

>>1194004
you don't want a network that would actually get used, offsetting the cost somewhat rather than "hundreds of millions of dollars" on interstates that do not recoup from fares/tolls and which deteriorate yearly instead of iron rails that just sit there?

Once it was successful, then branch lines could be built to connect all the other cities.

C'mon, man, think!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 May 2018 00:43:43 No.1194090 Report

Quoted By: >>1194098 >>1194695

>>1194087
>Once it was successful, then branch lines could be built to connect all the other cities.

Sounds too much like trickle down bullshit. You coastal elites got enough, the heartland wants ours

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 27 May 2018 01:08:16 No.1194098 Report

Quoted By: >>1194695

>>1194090
that point was already refuted
>>1194020
the ridership won't be there for the heartland unless they link to the major metro areas

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 May 2018 06:11:27 No.1194687 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190916
You know there were non-whites in the 80s

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 May 2018 06:43:44 No.1194695 Report

Quoted By: >>1194698

>>1194090
>>1194098
Actually guys. The Great Lakes region is perfect for high speed rail.
People always claim it’s for the west coast and northeast but the Southeast and Great Lakes are the optimal clusters for HSR. Far enough apart for trains to get to high speed and stay there, not so far that it’s better to use a plane.

People always claim the northeast is the best for it because it’s dense, but it’s a little too dense to be optimal the way some other regions are. I’m totally in favor of HSR through the Rust Belt. Would be ready for trade and tourism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 May 2018 07:06:10 No.1194698 Report

Quoted By: >>1194745

>>1194695
No, the NEC is objectively the best corridor for HSR. The Chicago hub is good too, but not as good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 28 May 2018 10:31:26 No.1194745 Report

Quoted By:

>>1194698
>No, the NEC is objectively the best corridor for HSR.
No.

Maybe highest ridership, but the land around the NEC's just too built up for true HSR without incurring billions of dollars just in land costs.

Subnbelt states, with their cheap, abundant, land, have the best cost-benefit ratio for HSR right now. It's a shame their republican governors hate the idea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 May 2018 14:49:01 No.1195263 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190892
the tactic for Republicans since the 90's is to create a false divide between the rural "real, Ford Truck driving Americans" and the urban "fake, poor, Subway riding, Euro wannabe elites". Dems aren't much better, but do a shitty job of fighting for more/better transit.

Transit is a good thing for them to run against since the base they built won't ride transit in their lives or used to ride transit back when it was slummy and the cities were poor, so they have negative attitudes about it. Also, a lot of Republican politicians tend to be wealthy and have a built in want for wider roads.

i'd love for Republicans to have a more nuanced, pro-development, low cost transit perspective than an anti-transit one. it may take a while but i'm still keeping hope alive for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 May 2018 15:04:57 No.1195274 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190910
traffic is certainly not better, and building more lanes isn't a sustainable approach without some form of decent alternative being available. my commute takes me half an hour to travel 8 miles within the suburb i live in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 May 2018 15:10:37 No.1195278 Report

Quoted By: >>1195286

All I know is that California does not need a fucking 70 billion dollar high speed railway from LA to SAN Francisco. Office jobs are requiring less and less physical contact and visits to actual offices, and more people work from home each year. Eliminating the need of business to be done in person face to face.

Fuck that nonsense

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 May 2018 15:30:06 No.1195286 Report

Quoted By:

>>1195278
You don’t know that.
The alternative is highways and airports which combined cost at least that much. If you have any experience with business and finance you know the true cost of a project depends on its cash flows and trains charge a toll so you have money coming in constantly. Whereas highways don’t charge anything, they’re just a continual money sink.
There’s no infrastructure more expensive to the public than highways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 May 2018 17:16:25 No.1195788 Report

Quoted By:

>>1190938
it's possible to build urban areas for privacy and make it decent, just like suburban neighborhoods can lack privacy.

i used to live in a suburban home where the backyard and our back window was visible to at least 4 other houses on the next street over. that's not very private.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 May 2018 17:26:08 No.1195796 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191041
>Two, most of the plans being put out for mass transit are pants on head retarded.
I don't disagree. In Maryland, everyone is shitting their pants over the loss of the Red Line, an extension of the Baltimore Light Rail system. While it's a small solution to a very pertinent problem, it still doesn't solve the lack of connectivity between the different transit lines in the city, nor does it connect to/expand on the existing Baltimore Subway line.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 May 2018 17:27:18 No.1195797 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191062
it's basically "my freedom, loser, not your freedom" in this country

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 May 2018 17:31:04 No.1195801 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191070
Not to mention in the suburbs, there are all sorts of traps and tricks to extract money out of people. There are counties that make their bottom line being highway towns that survive of ticketing people who drive through town. But I have the freedom to eat a Big Mac and die at 30, so I've got that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 May 2018 17:36:10 No.1195804 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191208
ironically, some cities are more lenient on what you do on your own property in terms of having chicken coops and gardens growing. The two biggest cities close to me, Baltimore and DC, both allow you to have chicken coops on your property while HOAs around the area I live won't let you. So city governments are more permissive than supposedly "freer" private organizations

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 30 May 2018 17:38:07 No.1195806 Report

Quoted By:

>>1191322
>>1191312
we're failing on food security in this country but I guess we can spend money on gas and high mortgages, so that's cool

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