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Electrification in the UK

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 02:21:04 No.1213299 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1213329 >>1213444 >>1213485 >>1213509 >>1214549 >>1214672

How to solve UK electrification problem? How has estimates gone from £250,000 for every kilometre to £1.7m?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 04:14:52 No.1213329 Report

Quoted By: >>1213970

>>1213299
At least you have more that 500 miles of electrification. Burgerland is all diesel, unless it's going into or through New York, Philly, or South Chicago

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 11:02:19 No.1213444 Report

Quoted By: >>1213736

>>1213299
Buy hybrid trains

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 13:51:56 No.1213485 Report

Quoted By: >>1213512 >>1214550

>>1213299
Keep a thought out for Ireland.
None of the Northern Irish Railways is electrified. The only part of Irish Rail that's electrified is the DART in Dublin to 750V DC.

Even if Northern Ireland chose to electrify, it would either have to go to the underpowered 750V DC for compatibility, or go to some other standard, which can cause incompatibility issues.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 15:18:04 No.1213509 Report

Quoted By: >>1213967 >>1214254

>>1213299
So there's two problems: one strategic, one tactical.

The tactical problem answers your last question: costs rocketed because when Railtrack was formed, one of the first things they did was to bin "old" drawings, and lay off "senior" people (who cost a lot of money). The end result being that they lost a huge amount of information about little things like ground conditions; things like "Oh yeah if you want to pile in that cutting there's an old Brunel-era drain 2m down; we found it in '76 during the last major works."

The strategic problem is that the UK is fucking awful at long term planning. Short-termism is killing the UK's ability to execute on long term infrastructure goals. Changing that requires firing every single senior civil servant and changing the entire populations concept of taxation. Sorry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 15:21:11 No.1213512 Report

Quoted By: >>1214017

>>1213485
DART is 1500V dc???

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Jul 2018 00:41:58 No.1213736 Report

Quoted By: >>1213901

>>1213444
Hybrid trains still need an electric spine.

In my opinion radial electrification for commuter lines coming out of the second, third and etc cities are equally as important. It's baffling that Milton Keynes to London takes 25 minutes but Birmingham to Nottingham or Worcester takes an hour.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Jul 2018 13:42:03 No.1213901 Report

Quoted By: >>1213965

>>1213736
Well it seems like Hydrogen is in the talks

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/hydrogen-train-to-be-tested-in-the-uk-by-2020.html

I can't see the entire UK electrified just all the low bridges along the lines that will have to be raised will make the costs explode. GWR is investing into dual mode trains.

As for Ireland you are looking at the same problem several bridges with low clearance. Also aside from the DART network I doubt the traffic volume will justify electrification.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Jul 2018 17:20:29 No.1213965 Report

Quoted By: >>1214551

>>1213901
Here's a stupid question.

Can trains be retrofitted to run on battery power for short distances under bridges like Trams can? The thing with Hybrid trains is that they take time to transition, but there's nothing stopping a train from running on momentum before joining the grid again is there?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Jul 2018 17:24:12 No.1213967 Report

Quoted By: >>1214254

>>1213509
Lack of long term planning goes to the root of British governance, but TfL does fairly competently. This is what happens when the tracks are state owned but the services are private, there's simply no joint up thinking or incentive to go the extra mile. In a self contained agency like TfL there is all the incentive to be more efficient and improve, and they work with Victorian infrastructure everyday.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Jul 2018 17:29:03 No.1213970 Report

Quoted By: >>1214114

>>1213329
Boston - Philly - NY - DC is about the length of JR East.

Literakly autistic to give Freight trains right of way instead of building a high speed corridor.

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Sun 15 Jul 2018 20:05:39 No.1214017 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213512
Why do you type like an obnoxious twat?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 03:52:00 No.1214114 Report

Quoted By: >>1214258

>>1213970
But freight doesn't have priority RoW on the Northeast Corridor, Amtrak does. Because they own it. After that, the local commuter rail services are next priority, and then freighters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 17:09:57 No.1214254 Report

Quoted By: >>1214298

>>1213509
>>1213967
If you read Signal Failure, the Private Eye column detailing transport news, you can really see how delusional the Department for Transport (DafT) has become under Chris Grayling.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 17:23:06 No.1214258 Report

Quoted By: >>1214323

>>1214114
Except in Connecticut and New York State, where the trackage is owned by the commuter railway and commuter trains are given schedule priority over the Amtrak trains. It's still a shit sandwich, and Connecticut NIMBYism is the #1 thing keeping a true Boston to NYC high-speed ROW from being built.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 20:34:10 No.1214298 Report

Quoted By: >>1214304

>>1214254
Dr B Ching is a bit of a prat, though. Smacks of BR-era upper management with no actual grasp of the day-to-day operational realities.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 20:47:32 No.1214304 Report

Quoted By: >>1214325

>>1214298
But the real Beeching had no grasp of everyday life. I have to side with Signal Failure though. As a subscriber to that magazine, it really does show that Britain has messed up its railways through this idea that it has to be profitable, when public transport is a public service to get people from A to B. Much like other public services like water, electricity and gas, making a profit shouldn't be the priority, it should be serving the public.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 21:25:14 No.1214323 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214258
I'm pretty sure officially, MassDOT owns the NEC from Attleboro to South Station, but for all intents and purposes, it's Amtrak trackage.
Fuck those NIMBYs in Southwest Connecticut, even though the worst sections of the corridor are in Southeast Connecticut

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 21:29:05 No.1214325 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214304
>Britain has messed up its railways through this idea that it has to be profitable

Oh, totally. It's a complete double standard: they apply a weird requirement to be profitable to rail but don't apply it to roads, for example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 12:52:30 No.1214549 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213299
>How to solve UK electrification problem?
Bring everything inhouse. Fuck off the companies that leech on Network Rail. Then there's Network Rail itself.
Network Rail needs to stop doing shit that bumps the price of electrification like spending millions getting some Swiss company to over-engineer the OHLE, then after that money is spent have to spend more on the actual equipment and training the workers.

By doing that you should get the price for electrification down, but is it going to happen? Is it fuck. The (botched) electrification of the GWML is going to leave a massive fuck off scar for the next 25 years at the very least in terms of funding for new projects, which is how long it's going to take to expose Hybrid trains.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 12:53:50 No.1214550 Report

Quoted By: >>1214562

>>1213485
>Keep a thought out for Ireland.
>Speaks about NI

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 12:55:18 No.1214551 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213965
They can't, and even if they could it would be a bad idea because the life expectancy of every train would be reduced, they would be significantly heavier, and would require more maintenance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 13:08:47 No.1214562 Report

Quoted By: >>1214607

>>1214550
Northern IRELAND is on the same island as the rest of IRELAND.
NIR and IÉ have to keep common standards in order to guarntee interoperability, which includes fitting IÉ trains with AWS and TPWS and fitting NIR trains with CAWS.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 15:35:22 No.1214607 Report

Quoted By: >>1214620

>>1214562
>Northern IRELAND is on the same island as the rest of IRELAND.
don't care

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 16:39:19 No.1214620 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214607

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 18:38:21 No.1214672 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213299
What's wrong with keeping most of the British rail network diesel?

British DMUs are just about the /comfiest/ thing on rails this side of Japan.

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