/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1213460

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/tram/ - tramway general

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 12:45:43 No.1213460 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1213476 >>1213578 >>1214322 >>1228111 >>1235562 >>1237156

Boondoggle folly 19th century technology write your congressman edition.

Starting with DC streetcar, the most hopeless "streetcar" project in the entire western hemisphere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 13:21:22 No.1213476 Report

Quoted By: >>1213499 >>1235588

>>1213460
Most of the US streetcar systems are hopeless
>build a useless short line or loop with no actual purpose
>buy outdated and overpriced technology
>spend huge ammounts of money because the exaggerated technical standards require it
>spend years on actually bulding it, most possibly with a long delay
>hope it will atract people to your empty downtown

Most of the local politicians have actually no idea how streetcar should work and how the system should look like. Streetcar isn't a toy like in some theme park that attracts people. It's a service in places where are already bigger ammounts of people that want to use the public transportation. If you want to move people from cars to streetcars, first you need to get them out of the cars (by regulations, or whatever) and then give them an actual useful system, not some toy-car loop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 14:37:56 No.1213499 Report

Quoted By: >>1213510

>>1213476
>Most of the US public transport systems are hopeless

ftfy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 14:47:32 No.1213500 Report

Quoted By: >>1214140

more trams on grass which always looks nice, construction on this whole area starts tomorrow

https://www.broadsheet.com.au/melbourne/city-file/article/southbank-boulevard-and-dodds-street-be-transformed-parkland

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 15:18:23 No.1213510 Report

Quoted By: >>1213511

>>1213499
Commercial aviation is public transport & mass transit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 15:20:05 No.1213511 Report

Quoted By: >>1213513

>>1213510
Thanks captain autismo. You knew perfectly well what I meant, you fucking sperg.

Let me clarify for you in case you really are that thick:

Most of the US light, heavy, tram, trolley-bus, bus, cycle and any other form of mass light transit systems are hopeless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 15:23:37 No.1213513 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213511
Lol I just missed the "most" part. No need to get triggered.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 14 Jul 2018 18:31:44 No.1213578 Report

Quoted By: >>1214087 >>1214322 >>1215240

>>1213460
>DC streetcar, the most hopeless "streetcar" project

Ha! You have never seen our pathetic streetcar system in Tampa, Florida. It's a single line just under 3 miles long like DC and is used by less than a 1,000 people per day (DC is about 3,000 per day). It doesn't even connect directly to the local Amtrak station, unlike the DC one. One article I read described it as an A-ticket ride for tourists, and it's currently doing a program until the end of the year where everyone can ride for free to test its viability definitively, before they decide to approve a proposed expansion. But hey, it does have brand-new streetcars built to look like they're 100 years old, and as long as they look good in tourist ads, everything will work out, right? Well, apparently not.

The main problem is that this streetcar system was not started to provide a new mass transit alternative for the city; it was started as an excuse to restore and run the last remaining heritage streetcar in Tampa from the old system a century ago (all of the infrastructure from the old system has been gone for ages and the current line was built this century), which they incidentally rarely run. It's a shame because I like old timey rail transport, and the execution of this streetcar has been terrible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 01:55:58 No.1214087 Report

Quoted By: >>1214133

>>1213578
At least it has a dedicated lane.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 05:37:14 No.1214133 Report

Quoted By: >>1214286 >>1223788

>>1214087
Stand back guys, here comes a real American streetcar system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 06:44:59 No.1214140 Report

Quoted By: >>1214545

>>1213500
There will still be pantograph wires for the trams, right? I'm guessing the artist just decided to not bother rendering them. I hope they have a plan to make the redevelopment a bit less dreary than how Docklands turned out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 18:57:34 No.1214282 Report

Quoted By: >>1214369

if you can get the land for relatively cheap, how expensive would it then be to make to build a line or two?
what drives up the costs besides land?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 19:08:53 No.1214285 Report

Quoted By: >>1214338

Reading this thread on a TTC streetcar

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 19:22:28 No.1214286 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214133
>MBTA is doing everything in their power to terminate the E line at Brigham Circle
>Streetcar system

I love the T as much as the next guy, but get real, nigga.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 21:24:00 No.1214322 Report

Quoted By: >>1214330 >>1214349 >>1214350 >>1214373

>>1213460
>>1213578
Can someone give me a quick rundown on modern american streetcar systems? Do any of them actually work? What purpose are they supposed to serve?

From what I've seen the trams that are branded 'streetcar' aren't planned to be extended to suburbs / futher than a few kilometres so they're meant really only for short trips downtown. Do people use something like that? What is those cities endgame? To ban cars / buses from the tram streets eventually? I've been told that streetcars are a mistake that's being made because modern day america doesn't fully understand trams yet but most of the us lightrails seem pretty succesful (if not commercially, at least they do a good job actually bringing people somewhere). Are streetcars gonna make it eventually or will they all be gone in 15 years?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 21:35:13 No.1214330 Report

Quoted By: >>1214368 >>1223654

>>1214322
It's literally just to bring upper middle class white people to downtown areas without existing public transit because upper middle class white people like using public transit but refuse to ride a bus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 21:49:23 No.1214338 Report

Quoted By: >>1215185

>>1214285
based streetcarposter
giv pics

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 22:23:00 No.1214349 Report

Quoted By: >>1214368

>>1214322
>Do any of them actually work?
In order to understand the American streetcar boom and if any of the new streetcars being installed actually work you have to look at the one place they do, Portland. Most of the streetcars in America were dreamed up by planners and local politicians who visited Portland after the recession to look for ways to revitalize their cities and downtown cores after the real estate crash. Many of those planners came back to their cities and we're convinced if they just built a short streetcar line through a small gentrified part of town they could become the next Portland. What many of those people never realized or understood is what makes Portland the city it is today. Portland was moving in the direction it is today by and large before the idea of the streetcar was ever penned. Many politicians and planners just want easy solutions to fix their vast array of problems their cities face with the least amount of backlash. The fact of the matter is, what Portland did in the 70's and 80's was revolutionary for North American cities at that particular time and to some extent still today. To implement these policies in the stereotypical midsize city in a deep red state which tried to emulate portland via streetcar construction is very politically explosive in these places and not worth risking their careers over it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 22:28:06 No.1214350 Report

Quoted By: >>1214368 >>1214374

>>1214322
Best case: they're often built to be downtown circulators to move tourists between the major attractions and to move suburbanites around downtown on weekends/evenings whenever they dare to venture into town for a show or dinner.

Worst case: The same as above but the tourists and suburbanites refuse to ride it because...GASP...poor people, or even worse homeless people, use it as well.

There are successful systems in the US, but those are usually called "light rail" systems rather than "streetcars". Systems like Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake City, Boston have decent and useful "streetcar" systems that actually have a real use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 23:35:13 No.1214368 Report

Quoted By: >>1217637

>>1214330
>>1214349
>>1214350
Based, thanks

>>1214349
Lmao so portland is basically to america what karlsruhe is to europe. Never knew what a nice city portland was btw, so much for the 'desert country downtowns are hard to keep lively' meme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 23:36:24 No.1214369 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214282
>what drives up the costs besides land?
One thing can be hefty insurance fees from crossings with other rail lines, such as those owned by freight railroads. The one in Tampa, for instance, crosses once over a CSX line, and they have to pay $500K each year to CSX because of it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 23:49:01 No.1214373 Report

Quoted By: >>1214375 >>1214386 >>1238627 >>1240760 >>1257430

>>1214322
The main issue is that most US politicians (and most normal citizens), don't know where to begin when it comes to passenger rail transport in general. Passenger rail hasn't been a thing for the majority of Americans since about the time Amtrak formed in 1971. Cars and airplanes are all most of them know, and things like streetcars are exotic novelties because of that. It's because of that novelty factor that initial phases of streetcars are made, but because they screw it up most of the time, it's ineffective, and everyone becomes reluctant to spend more money to enhance it or expand it.

The trick is to create some sort of "Passenger Rail for Dummies" guideline that any US politician across the country can use as a reference when considering building light rail systems in their cities. What would such a guideline look like, /n/?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Jul 2018 23:58:22 No.1214374 Report

Quoted By: >>1214403 >>1219362

>>1214350
>the tourists and suburbanites refuse to ride it because...GASP...poor people, or even worse homeless people, use it

This is the bane of all US mass transit. People that are middle class and higher don't like the idea of sharing a vehicle with a poor person because poor people statistically cause the vast majority of violent crime. If you have kids with you, this aversion increases. My solution: bring back the 1st-2nd-3rd class system to passenger rail, or something similar. Charge nothing for 3rd class streetcars, and charge a modest fee for each progressive class of streetcar. Under this scheme, 99.9999999% of homeless people will use the 3rd class streetcars, and everyone else will use the 2nd and 1st class streetcars. Everybody's happy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 00:00:39 No.1214375 Report

Quoted By: >>1240760

>>1214373
http://humantransit.org/book

Here you go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 00:33:23 No.1214386 Report

Quoted By: >>1214411 >>1223060

>>1214373
I honestly think this is much more of a complex issue, since you can't just write a book on it, you need to actually show US politicians examples to emulate, and people with the know-how.

First thing, consult with manufacturers. Talk to Siemens, talk to Alstom, talk to Bombardier. All 3 will go into detail about systems which can be implemented in US cities.

Second, go on field trips. I'm not joking about this though. Take US politicians, and take them on trips to look at places where light rail is in use. Take them to Toronto to see the TTC as a North American system, take them to Vienna, Berlin and Prague to see large European systems. Take them to Hiroshima to see how the Japanese do it. Take them to Melbourne to see how the Australians manage it in their climate.

Third, don't cheap out. The biggest issue I have with the US' systems, particularly with systems like in DC, is the fact that they put it on a short stretch of line, in a relatively poor neighbourhood. The result is that these neighbourhoods become gentrified quickly, but expand it out to several areas, and you end up with an interconnected place. Oh, and make sure you do something about moronic car drivers who have no idea how to drive around trams/streetcars.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 01:17:57 No.1214403 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214374
>poor people statistically cause the vast majority of violent crime
That's the problem of poverty gap

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 01:36:48 No.1214411 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214386
>Second, go on field trips. I'm not joking about this
Funny how this apperantly would sound like a joke to american politicians. It's really not like new european tram systems automatically work because there are already more of them on the same continent. It's common practice here for local governments to go on a LOT of trips to existing tram cities when they are considering building their own, and fly over teams from other systems to set things up if they go for it. For example, in the nineties almost every dutch province town sent a group of people to karlsruhe to see if a tram/train would work for them, most of them finding out that buses that run every hour being slightly crowded is in fact not a valid excuse to build an extensive lightrail system. They learned that it's viable only if you already have a tram system, and thus Rotterdam and Den Haag went for it and their new interurban lines became very succesful. There's no valid reason for american systems to fail. There's not even something wrong with building a tram for le prestige. They just have to do their fucking research.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 02:12:43 No.1214421 Report

Quoted By: >>1214428 >>1251445 >>1260376 >>1260377 >>1260434

Am I wrong in presuming that street running tram systems are just generally bad?

You have most of the cost of light rail, but with none of the speed benefits. You still get stuck in traffic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 02:17:10 No.1214423 Report

Quoted By:

One of the most infuriating things about American politics. It’s often a choice between bad spending and no spending.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 02:46:08 No.1214428 Report

Quoted By: >>1214442 >>1214496 >>1214505 >>1223663

>>1214421
>Am I wrong in presuming that street running tram systems are just generally bad?
yes, although mixed traffic is always bad. Public transport (no matter if it's a bus or a tram) needs its own lane. Trams are better because:
>more capacity. vehicles can be longer because they're guided
>more comfortable. buses shake a lot while trams are a smooth ride
>tram lanes take less pace than bus lanes
>trams can make smaller curves
>trams are cheaper to operate because rubber tires give significantly more fraction that rails
>trams can easily be extended onto railroads or with metro sections in tunnels
>trams have more prestige than buses so they actually add something to your city
>trams are bidirectional
>zero pollution (electric buses are partly taking away this advantage but still require a lot more electricity)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 03:38:55 No.1214442 Report

Quoted By: >>1214498 >>1214505 >>1214537

>>1214428
My assumption was

>if it's mixed traffic, use a bus
>if it's an exclusive right of way, use a train

And that both BRT and streetcars were a waste of time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 07:23:42 No.1214496 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214428
>> trams can make smaller curves
Wtf?
>> >trams are cheaper to operate because rubber tires give significantly more fraction that rails
Inb4 rubber-tyred trams... This point, with a correct conclusion, is incomplete. The mere fact of more friction does not directly conclude a higher cost.
>> trams are bidirectional
How is this an advantage?
>> trams can easily be extended onto railroads or with metro sections in tunnels
An incentive, not really strong considering a bus route can more easily extend to any road

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 07:29:27 No.1214498 Report

Quoted By: >>1214505

>>1214442
Really depends on what's "BRT".
>> if it's an exclusive right of way, use a train
If demand or density is not there yet, a median bus lane will do.

My position is, if the corridor/area branches a lot or demand is less linearly distributed , use bus as a trunk option.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 08:03:48 No.1214505 Report

Quoted By: >>1214537

>>1214428
>needs its own lane
This may only be necessary at peak times. See e.g. Melbourne's tram-clearways with a peak tram lane. Outside of peak, many routes have no need for a lane.
>trams can make smaller curves
Not really, and you really don't want sharp curves due to excessive wear.
>trams are cheaper because friction
It's more complicated. Trams are cheaper because of their power source and their longevity in addition to rolling resistance.
>trams can easily be extended onto other rails
Not where the track gauge is different. Providing quick connections may be all that is necessary or even useful. Consider also platform height for large bogied trains vs low-floor trams.
>trams are bidirectional
Not all trams. Nor do buses have trouble U-turning if the street isn't too narrow. Besides, you need a set of points for the tram to turn back with if you want/need to do that.
>zero pollution
at the place where the vehicle is used, not elsewhere if the power system runs on combustion.

I'm kind of sick of this meme that thou shalt have a 24/7 dedicated lane. That's not a rule that always makes sense. I'm tlaking about branching suburban routes rather than trunk routes of course.

>>1214442
It's just not that black and white. It's a lot easier to set up a tram route in a city centre than an underground heavy rail. Cars don't really belong in the city centre anyway, and buses pollute too much, but trams are just right.

>>1214498
Did you mean BRT as a trunk option?
Brisbane's bus/rapid bus system revolves around trunk BRT rights of way and suburban routes that connect to the BRT trunk, which works until the point where your trunk chokes with buses.

Friendly reminder that trolleybus is best bus.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 11:02:46 No.1214521 Report

Quoted By: >>1238610

Stockholm, Sweden. Tram tracks over Sergels Torg, only five years behind schedule, thanks to a street renovation job being twenty years behind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 12:15:22 No.1214537 Report

Quoted By: >>1215210

>>1214442
>if it's mixed traffic, use a bus
>if it's an exclusive right of way, use a train
this would be true if all routes were either exclusively mixed traffic or exclusively spacy right of way. in reality, in urban areas it's always a mix of both. that's were trams come in. trams are just trains made smaller so they fit in the streets and can run in mixed traffic where necessary. urban planners nowadays are putting a ton of labels on it and distinguish between 'streetcar' and 'light rail' and 'light train' and whatever more but it's really all just trains coming in different sizes. pick the size that fits your area and you're good to go.

>>1214505
Your points are valid but I was just quickly summing up some advantages of trams more than going into detail about all the 'except for when's. Generally, taking any statement about urban transportation as an absolute fact is a recipe for disaster because every situation is different. All those failed light rail systems and BRT's built as a copy of a working system elsewhere can elaborate. About the tram lanes, ofcourse there's nothing wrong with trams running in mixed traffic per se (pretty sure every based system that has been around for a while has at least a few sections). But if there's room for it it's alway best. In Amsterdam there's tram lanes almost everywhere and they're nice even in quiet streets because trams can rush past cars at 70km/h (cars are limited to 50km/h in urban areas for obvious reasons). Also tram lanes are intimidating to other traffic, people always look twice before crossing one while most drivers don't give a shit about blocking a tram in mixed traffic.

Posted from a Siemens Combino

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 12:34:09 No.1214545 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214140
I didn't even notice that. Yeah they would have to be there. Part of the development is a massive art gallery precinct and it's near the botanical gardens/shrine so it's not going to be bleak, or at least you wouldn't think so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Jul 2018 14:21:17 No.1214583 Report

Quoted By: >>1215120 >>1215204 >>1215391

There's a 5 km stretch in my city of 300k people which i think you greatly benefit from a light rail line.

How do i get around to actually finding out if this is the case to present to the mayor?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 18:41:19 No.1215120 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214583
Do the rough maths. The tram has to connect people with places they want to go. City planners consider people be willing to walk 500m or so to a light rail stop. Usual suspects are airports, railroad stations, hospitals, colleges, clusters of commieblocks and clusters of supermarkets.
Then wait for elections. Pitch the light rail idea to whoever is the most likely to go with it. If it gains traction his opponents will try to steal the idea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 18:46:46 No.1215122 Report

Quoted By: >>1215158 >>1215180

So I did some rough googling and found out that both ends of the DC streetcar terminate at subway stations.

I'm seriously considering taking a bus to the DC metro, riding the metro to the streetcar, riding the streetcar to the end of the line and then taking the metro back.

I need you to talk me out of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 19:54:01 No.1215158 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215122
Sounds like a fun day desu

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:20:55 No.1215180 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215122
One day, I really wanna take the Wuppertal Suspension Monorail to its western terminus and then change directly to the Solingen trolleybus. Train rides there and back included, the most /n/ experience I can think of

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:34:58 No.1215185 Report

Quoted By: >>1215190 >>1215230

>>1214338
not my photo, but this is the exact car I was on

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 21:52:30 No.1215190 Report

Quoted By: >>1220113

>>1215185
That must be a really tiny camera that takes such tiny photos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:32:15 No.1215204 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214583
It's a good omen If there's a bus line that operates constant 10 min at peak or more.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 22:40:00 No.1215210 Report

Quoted By: >>1215232 >>1215233 >>1215235 >>1215243

>>1214537
>while most drivers don't give a shit about blocking a tram in mixed traffic
Sigh, that killed Philadelphia system :(

Would have been perfectly salvageable system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:26:14 No.1215230 Report

Quoted By: >>1223507

>>1215185
It pains me greatly that I never got to see Toronto full of CLRVs and ALRVs under trolleypoles. Must have been quite a sight to see. I'm sure those new streetcars will work out great, but the whole system will look more like all modern streetcars, without those old-style a e s t h e t i c s.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:27:33 No.1215232 Report

Quoted By: >>1215325

>>1215210
>tfw no trolley line 23
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:28:27 No.1215233 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215210
I warned you about street riding bro.

I told you dog.

t. rode New Orleans streetcars and now wonders constantly why more cities don't implement a New Orleans style system

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:31:41 No.1215235 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215210
btw Philly's "modern" trolley cars are from '81-'82, almost 40 years old, is there any plan for replacing or at least refurbishing them? Are they so well built that they could still last for many years, like the PCCs?
Also have you heard about any issues with the line 15 PCCs or are they still working out fine?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:42:15 No.1215240 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213578
>the execution of this streetcar has been terrible.
Is there literally anything that Tampa is good at? Aside from shit stuff like strip clubs, I mean.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Jul 2018 23:57:00 No.1215243 Report

Quoted By: >>1215264 >>1215281 >>1215325

>>1215210
>closing long tram lines in 1992
what the fuck were they thinking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 00:00:58 No.1215244 Report

Quoted By:

So how many streetcar lines have been closed in your city (assuming any have been). Here in Toronto while we still have a great system it is a shadow of its former self. You can see all the lines closed here: https://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4100.shtml

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 00:58:51 No.1215264 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215243
Yeah I get lines closing decades ago during the car boom when trams and light rails were being abandoned left and right, but 1992 ain't that long ago.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 02:01:14 No.1215281 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215243
Boston did the same thing with the Heath-->Forest Hills Centre Street branch of the Green Line. The late 80s was the peak of urban violence in most American cities and most transit agencies had no interest in maintaining the headaches of street running on lines that most respectable people were afraid to ride.

Sage

Sage Thu 19 Jul 2018 03:19:17 No.1215302 Report

Quoted By: >>1215397 >>1217470 >>1217684

Trams are fine if implemented properly
>boondoggle
>outdated technology
These are KOCH BROTHER ANTI TRANSIT TALKING POINTS as seen in the Nashville ballot
Sage goes in all fields

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 05:08:44 No.1215325 Report

Quoted By: >>1215365 >>1215390 >>1231685

>>1215232
>>1215243
Don't the tracks still exist at least for the 23?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 08:56:18 No.1215365 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215325
I dunno, wont install Chrome just for that.

http://www.phillytrolley.org/trackmap/2015_Phila_track_map.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 10:26:38 No.1215390 Report

Quoted By: >>1215394

>>1215325
Yes, and they even have the catenary. They're essentially mothballed, as far as I saw when I went there two years ago they haven't even been paved over. Would require some refurbishing, but nowhere near the expense of laying entirely new tracks. That's also how they got line 15 back going, it was one of the three lines "temporarily suspended" in '92.

What would be interesting to know is if Philly has more PCCs still in storage. Line 15 was recovered partly bc they had the PCCs lying around, and rebuilding them was much cheaper than buying new units.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 10:30:22 No.1215391 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214583
Compares with existing transit lines. If there are no, make some bus lines first

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 10:33:57 No.1215394 Report

Quoted By: >>1215397 >>1215422 >>1231687

>>1215390
Correction, the tracks have actually been damaged or paved over at some points (I only saw them around downtown).
http://www.phillytrolley.org/vandalism/vandalism00.html
The damage nevertheless doesn't seem so bad that it would be extremely difficuly to recover them. But obv SEPTA seems to have absolutely no interest in extending streetcar service. I've found some news items from last month when a study was published which recommends improving the bus network, and turning line 15 back to bus operation. This doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it goes to show that there's no push whatsoever for more trolley service. Sad

https://whyy.org/segments/overhauling-its-bus-network-may-be-on-septas-schedule-soon/
>Walker’s report also calls on SEPTA to consider abandoning the Route 15 trolley, which mostly runs along Girard Avenue, and replacing it with a high-frequency bus line, citing the streetcars’ inability to get around double-parked cars and other obstacles that frequently obstruct its path.
literally the only reason to consider abanding it is
>muh parked cars
it's like the 1950's all over again. jfc philly get your shit together.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 10:48:33 No.1215397 Report

Quoted By: >>1215421

>>1215302
>if implemented properly
Exactly. OP does not mean ALL trams are boondoggles. He means the thread topic is ABOUT boondoggle trams.

>>1215394
sounds like the real problem is, as always, entitled cagers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 12:32:31 No.1215421 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215397
>sounds like the real problem is, as always, entitled cagers.
indeed. afaik the route 15 conversion to trolleys hasn't been a huge success in regards to ridership, but I can imagine that the cost of operation can be economical if they last long (and they're already 13 years old since their rebuilding in 2005) and aren't too expensive to maintain, plus they are more spacious, comfy and enticing to ride than some shitty bus.
I'd love to see some numbers, but I'd bet that since the conversion to streetcar operation route 15 would have had its passenger numbers grow slightly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 12:40:17 No.1215422 Report

Quoted By: >>1215427 >>1231687

>>1215394
>Walker’s report also calls on SEPTA to consider abandoning the Route 15 trolley, which mostly runs along Girard Avenue, and replacing it with a high-frequency bus line, citing the streetcars’ inability to get around double-parked cars and other obstacles that frequently obstruct its path.
What kind of complete fucking retards is SEPTA hiring to do a study? There was a similar study where I live last year, where parked cars also came out as a problem for the trams, so parking spaces are being scrapped because no one would even consider it to be the trams problem.

http://www.phillytrolley.org/vandalism/vandalism07.html
>The City of Philadelphia insisted that new Route 23 trolley rails be installed, on Germantown Avenue in Mt Airy when the street was reconstructed in 2008. SEPTA took that opportunity to destroy a key component of the Route 23 trolley: Mermaid Loop.
What kind of shitty fucking operator is SEPTA? Fucking end the contract with them asap and give the concession to an operator who isn't doing everything they can to sabotage the network.

Seriously haven't been this triggered in years

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 12:58:04 No.1215427 Report

Quoted By: >>1217405

>>1215422
SEPTA is a public administration. They're sabotaging themselves, if anything. The point of this could be that SEPTA doesn't want to make it possible to recover those streetcar services, not necessarily because of an inherent hate toward public transport or streetcars, but because they're strapped for cash and don't want to be forced to divert funds to a trolley line which, on paper, won't do much to improve transit service. (Which begs the question why it rebuilt the street with tracks in the first place, though it could have been some formal requirement because otherwise it would have to change the lines status from "temporarily suspended" to "scrapped", or something like that. Fuck yeah bureaucracy!)

In any case, phillyanons here have often remarked on the massive retardation and lack of funding of SEPTA, considering that Philadelphia is a city with a reasonable level of infrastructure, as in subways, commuter light rail, commuter trains, streetcars and trolleybuses. I think that the city is being incredibly retarded over this, if they pulled a route 15 on route 23, as in recovering service with rebuilt PCCs (maybe some phillyanon could enlighten us on whether SEPTA still has unrestored PCCs lying around) it would be a huge tourist attraction, with classic streetcars running through the middle of downtown, while also being a great boon to locals using said route.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO thonk.png, 144KiB, 1200x992

Anonymous Thu 19 Jul 2018 21:30:17 No.1215563 Report

Quoted By: >>1215625 >>1217785

So I've been thinking

>most municipalities in the US can't or won't spend the money to put LRVs on an exclusive right of way
>because street running LRVs are slower and have all sorts of problems with parallel parking and traffic jams, people don't want to build them because it's a lot of infrastructure cost for a very marginal improvement over buses
>in the US, it is much, much easier to get a highway project funded than a rail travel project funded

With all of these being the case, why not ask for funding from the state DOT or federal government to put HOV lanes along the route that you want the light rail to go, and then when the state and federal governments are done footing the bill, install tracks?

All you'd need to do is add the physical tracks, the stations (I was thinking you build them as islands on the median and have pedestrian footbridges to the sidewalks on either side of the road,) the cables, and the signal priority.

You'd be using the government's love of cages against them, and if you can't get the LRT built, you still have a nice HOV and you can at least make bus service way more effective.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 20 Jul 2018 01:00:45 No.1215625 Report

Quoted By: >>1215627

>>1215563
is it really that much easier to get an extensive new road network funded?
where I live bus lanes are built with needless tracks on them because only tram lanes get funded. but this is europe, so we obviously have to deal with a different kind of autism than the us.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 20 Jul 2018 01:09:10 No.1215627 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215625
It wouldn't be a new road network, it would be new lanes on existing roads and controlled entrances for tolling, possibly with a concrete barrier and a widening of the road.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO streetcar3b.jpg, 383KiB, 984x796

Anonymous Mon 23 Jul 2018 15:43:59 No.1217118 Report

Quoted By: >>1217469 >>1217684

Sigh. Portland streetcar needs to expand, maybe it will even adopt little bigger rolling stock, which, sadly I fear need to be imported from western Europe or Japan.

Also, Seattle has relatively sane plans, then you would have a suitable "made in America" version of relatively low density urban rail which is nevertheless extensible if urban development turns out as desired.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Jul 2018 06:01:02 No.1217405 Report

Quoted By: >>1217437

>>1215427
Septa/Philly cares more about where the money is sadly. So that means most of their profits go into expanding regional rail.

They are working on switching some of the existing Trolley routes over to light rail vehicles though, starting with the 101 and 102 trolley routes.
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/01/12/septa-trolley-upgrade/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Jul 2018 08:27:52 No.1217437 Report

Quoted By:

>>1217405
>this might start happening in 2024, which is "ambitious"
wew

Anoɳymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO do_union_siegel-pils_ostenhellwe (...).jpg, 97KiB, 1280x720

Anoɳymous Tue 24 Jul 2018 10:29:03 No.1217468 Report

Quoted By: >>1217472

Rate my new glass comfy/10

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Jul 2018 10:37:28 No.1217469 Report

Quoted By: >>1218089

>>1217118
that's the worst map I have ever seen. A printed out page from some 90's looking digital maps or whatever poor basemap it is, in a small scale, overwritten with some lines with large marker pen and then again scanned.
PC skills 10/10

btw, doesn't Bombardier produce in Canada?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Jul 2018 10:38:44 No.1217470 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215302
take your assburger pills, assburger

H Tue 24 Jul 2018 10:39:50 No.1217472 Report

Quoted By:

>>1217468
He cute!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Jul 2018 19:08:40 No.1217637 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214368
>Portland
>Desert Country

huh?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 24 Jul 2018 21:19:36 No.1217684 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215302
I'm generally a proponent of public transit, but the Nashville plan was a textbook example of how to do everything wrong. The proponents weren't able to show that it would have a positive impact on traffic, that the lines would be well-utilized, that the increased overhead would be self-sustaining by an increase in paying fares (kids, elderly, and poor would all get big discounts or free passes, and those are the people who would have used the new lines the most), and that the project would be completed on time given that a big part of it was a big tunnel under downtown. Worse, the proposal raised sales tax above 10%, which is a big psychological threshold that voters will revolt against. The proponents of it, and of public transit in general, got a big fucking reality check with that vote. If their takeaway is that it's because of evul billionaires, they're dumb as shit and will continue to fail.
>>1217118
The streetcar here is kinda crap, and I wish that MAX would be expanded to have a couple of short lines that serve neighborhoods rather than just being built along existing freight rail. But instead we're spending $$$$$$ on a fucking retarded expansion of I-5 that won't accomplish a single fucking thing. Talk about a boondoggle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Jul 2018 02:50:52 No.1217785 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215563
So basically something like Xiamen in China?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 25 Jul 2018 02:52:00 No.1217787 Report

Quoted By:

Anyone familiar with the San Diego system that it seems like their system have other types of locomotives running in it?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO streetcar-combined-lines-ma.jpg, 356KiB, 555x732

Anonymous Thu 26 Jul 2018 01:46:18 No.1218089 Report

Quoted By: >>1218238

>>1217469
lol Seattle's map isn't much better

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Jul 2018 11:21:20 No.1218238 Report

Quoted By: >>1218253 >>1218268

>>1218089
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/seattles-new-streetcars-may-be-too-big-to-fit-tracks-maintenance-barn/

>The new streetcars that Seattle ordered to expand the downtown streetcar system are heavier and longer than the ones the city now operates, and it’s unclear if they’ll work on the current track and fit in the maintenance barn, Mayor Jenny Durkan’s office said Tuesday.
>The Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) ordered 10 new streetcars in the fall, at a cost of $52 million, as it planned to link the two existing streetcar lines with a new line along First Avenue through downtown.
>But Durkan halted that work in March and ordered an independent review of the project’s finances, after a Seattle Times report said costs to operate the new system could be 50 percent higher than SDOT had publicly stated.

>The streetcars the city now owns and operates are made by a different company, Inekon. The city opted for a new manufacturer after Inekon fell behind schedule on cars for the First Hill streetcar line, which opened two years late.
>The city asked for a fairly broad list of specifications in the new streetcars, but almost all of the options are longer and heavier than the Inekon cars currently in use.
>The city’s contract with CAF USA asks for streetcars between 65 and 75.5 feet long.
>The Inekon streetcars are about 66 feet, according to the company.
>The CAF USA streetcars are supposed to have a maximum weight of 82,000 pounds to about 95,000 pounds, according to the contract requirements.
>But the Inekon streetcars are only about 60,000 pounds, according to the company.

How can this even happen? Buying these lilliputian "streetcars" is one thing, designing the infrastructure around them without provisions for expansion is another.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Jul 2018 12:12:07 No.1218253 Report

Quoted By: >>1218285 >>1220112

>>1218238
>new streetcars will not fit on the line

News like this emerge EVERYWHERE around the world where they have trams. It is just tabloid nonsense in 99% of the time.
The lines are build with some standards and the first thing the producer does when producing a new vehicle is checking out those standards. The worst that can happen is that there is some old track which already degraded during the time and it does not meet the standards it used to have, however this should not happen in the new system such as Seattle.
The length does not mean anything, if the tram stops are designed to fit them. What is important is the ability to go through curves whichc is designed by the length between bogies, their posibility to turn and many other criteria.
The weight can be a problem, but just in a long run, because the heavier the vehicle is, the more maintenance will the track require.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Jul 2018 13:48:47 No.1218268 Report

Quoted By: >>1218285

>>1218238
Always be cautious of Seattle Times articles with the word "may" in the title, especially when the topic is transit. The mayoral and Herbold's statements haven't been fact checked.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO mittakehikko-1024x768.jpg, 151KiB, 1024x768

Anonymous Thu 26 Jul 2018 14:42:41 No.1218285 Report

Quoted By: >>1218322

>>1218253
>>1218268
>American journalism.

I actually cross checked various sources and opted for the local in the end. The Fox News version saw it necessary to mention like 5 times how the mayor is "Anti Trump".

The main news article with this were the budget overruns, though.

There may be a real problem that the first phase depot can't fit longer vehicles, if the holding tracks have been sized in such a way that they hold like 3-4 current cars, if there's space for 1 less per track they may need to modify or extend the facilities before intended.

Compatibility study for new rolling stock in itself is fairly standard affair, some manufacturers even send a "loading gauge maquette" to check that the vehicle fits to the network.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 26 Jul 2018 16:18:50 No.1218322 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218285
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't put it past SDOT to completely fuck something like this up. The First Hill line was a lesson in government incompetence and you'd think they'd have learned from it, if only because every streetcar line going forward was bound to be under intense scrutiny. Seattle cannot help doing things their own way as if they're the first ones to do anything.

The mayor is just flexing her fiscally pragmatic muscles right now. The line will get built eventually but she needs to act like she's reigning in the excess.

Fox News usually can't mention Seattle without calling it a socialist hellhole so calling Durken anti-trump seems mild.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 04:07:59 No.1219362 Report

Quoted By: >>1223368

>>1214374
Or just don't let blacks on the trains. Problem solved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 19:02:20 No.1220046 Report

Quoted By: >>1220054

why aren't double decker trams more common?
would a triple decker tram ever be possible?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 19:36:23 No.1220054 Report

Quoted By:

>>1220046
Loading gauge. Unless a system started with double deckers, it has too low overhead wire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 22:13:26 No.1220110 Report

Quoted By:

The new tram system of Oran, Algeria
Cagers really are the same everywhere lmao
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dWNj3hnXbrA

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 22:16:53 No.1220112 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218253
In Hong Kong they cannot upgrade the tram line to a larger, low platform one because of problem with loading gauge being too narrow and it's also narrow gauge. And the catenary network also make it hard to upgrade trams to an air conditioned one

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Aug 2018 22:22:18 No.1220113 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215190
it is

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO X3085-2466.jpg, 2MiB, 3000x2000

Anonymous Wed 08 Aug 2018 13:06:14 No.1222213 Report

Quoted By: >>1222217 >>1255909

So seeing my thread on page 9 already, I decided to go on crawl on the UK situation, and it seems relatively happy even.

For starters, the Midland Metro is extended, and it is starting to form a solid mainline. Metrolink is also going strong.

Nothing has happened in Nottingham, Sheffield has been dabbling with diesel tram-trains. Blackpool is getting a tiny, tiny branch. At least now they are operating more or less modern equipment.

Merseyrail and Tyne and Wear metro have hard time expanding culturally and because they run non-standard electrification system: 750 V third rail and 1500 V overhead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Aug 2018 13:24:42 No.1222217 Report

Quoted By:

>>1222213
and London is asleep

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Kartbild.jpg, 1MiB, 1667x1927

Anonymous Wed 08 Aug 2018 14:00:16 No.1222227 Report

Quoted By:

Want to see this happening.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO w04h4j71jwx01.jpg, 1MiB, 4032x3024

Anonymous Wed 08 Aug 2018 15:43:07 No.1222262 Report

Quoted By:

Its a small thing but the Trolley polls are slowly starting to be phased out here in Toronto. I believe 2 lines have already been converted with another being done by the end of the year. I'm not sure of the exact schedule for next year.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO oklahoma-city-streetcar-map.png, 7KiB, 612x736

Anonymous Fri 10 Aug 2018 08:33:36 No.1223060 Report

Quoted By:

(Taking my (you), thank you very much.)

As I've been bemoaning the BRT vs LRT situation at my city (Turku). At least the city officials have been doing what >>1214386 said: field trips.

The transport board has already been to at least in Nantes to see their system with three tram lines plus one "superbus" and in Malmö to meet the Volvo people. They went to st. Petersburg in other business but had some time allocated for studying the infrastructure. Also, they have sent "requests for commentaries" (or whatever is their proper name) to every even tangentially related party.

No the if the schedule would have been as anticipated in February, the cabinet would have had a vote on the future of the transit like last Tuesday but that obviously didn't happen. Instead in a slight surprise the transport board announced it's going to go to UK to see Manchester, Nottingham and London systems later in this fall.

All in all I find it worrisome that our transport board finds the British cities as the most relatable reference places.

Pic not related. Just found another map of an American meme-streetcar.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 9738103439_b999fb3f63_b.jpg, 521KiB, 1024x683

Anonymous Fri 10 Aug 2018 13:40:08 No.1223126 Report

Quoted By: >>1226270

>Hong Kong NWNT light rail system
I still don't understand why the system have such ridership and being overcrowded (on average 490k passenger per day, system length is 36.2km, no info about average journey length), yet they're still losing money on it and thus not making any more significant investment into the system.
The most mindblogging part is probably the line 506. Line 506 was a route that run on the system, however due to certain event that created rail car shortage, they have to send buses onto the route instead. Afterwards, they decided that bus are good enough and those rail cars have been redeployed elsewhere so they would just keep sending buses onto the route instead of buying extra rail cars for the route. How would all those buses be more economical than light rail cars, especially when all the tracks and stations are still operative regardless of this?
Indeed those buses are double deckers while those light rails are 1-2cars single deck but I am pretty sure the light rail still have better capacity. Those substitution buses come one after another at bus stop that once a bus finish loading, the other bus come almost immediately, and each of those buses are fully loaded with 100+ passengers while still leaving behind a long queue at bus stop, however that apparently still does not justify switching the service back to light rail service with infrastructures that are already there and operational.
Literally what went wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Aug 2018 02:08:22 No.1223368 Report

Quoted By: >>1223409 >>1223479

>>1219362

This violates the civil rights act.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Aug 2018 04:09:19 No.1223409 Report

Quoted By:

>>1223368
and your point is....?

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Sat 11 Aug 2018 07:41:45 No.1223479 Report

Quoted By:

>>1223368
Why even reply to such a post

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Aug 2018 09:43:40 No.1223507 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215230
Don't worry, they still have antiquated switches and ridiculously tight turning radius. Some lines have literal street stops where one needs to de-board to automobile lane.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Aug 2018 16:18:59 No.1223654 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214330
As an upper middle class white person who moved to be closer to a streetcar line in my mid-size blue state city:

Fuck off, it saves me money and it frees up my commute time to shitpost on /n/.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Aug 2018 16:29:47 No.1223663 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214428
You missed a few big ones:

>Contemporary streetcars can have additional cars attached to increase passenger capacity at peak times (like rush hour and during sporting events) beyond that of any existing buses and without needing to hire additional drivers.

>Rail vehicles have far better fuel economy than a bus of similar size because metal-on-metal has less rolling resistance than inflated rubber on asphalt.

>Rail is dramatically less impaired by snow (which is an enormous improvement in Toronto, Chicago, Minneapolis, etc)

Not to mention that the operating costs and maintenance downtime are far lower:
>Steel wheels don't need to be serviced or replaced anywhere near as often as rubber tires
>Electric motors don't need to be serviced or rebuilt anywhere near as often as Diesel engines because they have like 90% fewer moving parts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Aug 2018 21:15:31 No.1223788 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214133
Shit, is that one of the new cars?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO paris-ratp-ligne-t5-tramway-pneu (...).jpg, 321KiB, 1200x801

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 10:54:55 No.1226270 Report

Quoted By: >>1226295 >>1226343 >>1230882 >>1244751

Come on Amerifats, how are your meme streetcars doing?

Meanwhile in Europe, I'd say we arguably have maybe the London tram. I just don't see any way how it could expand to form any relevant transport system in any possible way.

In Paris, on the other hand they have seen over then circular routes that still don't form a network either. Of course when we a talking about France, there are few Translohr lines mixed in. I'd say that, if anything else is the European equivalent to the meme streetcar.

At least I'd imagine there's a good track bed half made and ready overhead line infrastructure, some maintenance buildings on lots with room to expand, so it's not all bad. Just expensive.

>>1223126
Are they really going to bound a monorail to Kai Tak?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 12:58:52 No.1226295 Report

Quoted By: >>1226298

>>1226270
Generally Europe has zero meme streetcars per country, but Spain is the big exception with several of them. From the top of my head:
>Barcelona: the 'light metro' has lots of useless old-skool tram curves even in the tunnels, making it slow
>Madrid: 2 halfs of the network were never connected
>Bilbao: short, partly single track line through the city center, really an american style tram project
>Jaén: system is finished since 2011 but never opened because of political bullshit
>Velez-Malaga: opened a few years ago, closed again because of limited usefullness. Now they wanna reopen it but the line fell into disrepair and they don't have the money to fix it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 13:09:04 No.1226298 Report

Quoted By: >>1226352 >>1226354

>>1226295
>>Barcelona: the 'light metro' has lots of useless old-skool tram curves even in the tunnels, making it slow
>>Madrid: 2 halfs of the network were never connected
are you confusing those two? Barcelona doesn't have particularly many curves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 16:06:19 No.1226343 Report

Quoted By: >>1226684

>>1226270
>Are they really going to bound a monorail to Kai Tak?
99% chance the Kai Tak will be built.

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 16:25:41 No.1226352 Report

Quoted By:

>>1226298
Yes I think anon mixed those two up

Barcelonanon regularly REEEEs about the two seperate networks not being connected via the diagonal alley

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 16:29:14 No.1226354 Report

Quoted By: >>1226367

>>1226298
>are you confusing those two?
I am, actually
The tracks in Barcelona are really pretty laid, it's a shame they don't connect the two halfs into a real network and expand it, because it would be a lot cheaper than constructing more unnecessary metro's that go to nowhere

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 17:32:42 No.1226367 Report

Quoted By: >>1226493

>>1226354
My man. Also Barcelona tram isn't meme tram despite lacking connection. It works fine as a local and feeder tram, especially the southern system that connects many burbs lacking Metro and train service.

I'd also argue that Bilbao, though somewhat memey, is still quite useful, definitely not burgerland-memetram-tier. It connects the Bilbao-Atxuri narrow-gauge train station to the city center, and is generally a useful link between heavy rail and central areas otherwise not well served by rail transport. It runs through an area that used to be industrial but was redeveloped when the industry moved further outward. A BRT-style bus system offering similar speed and capacity would be extremely clunky in those narrow streets, while the single-track sections are a decent space-saving solution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Aug 2018 23:45:52 No.1226493 Report

Quoted By: >>1226522

>>1226367
>I'd also argue that Bilbao, though somewhat memey, is still quite useful, definitely not burgerland-memetram-tier.
Yeah I apologize for that one, comparing anything to an american tram system is just too far.

From the outside it looks like a very memey system though. Short lines like that haven't been built anywhere in Europe outside of Spain, and someone once told me that the horseshoe shape of the line makes it faster to walk from Abando to La Casilla, than taking the tram. The archaic looking single-track-on-the-side-of-the-road layout also smells like meme spirit. But apparently you really shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 00:36:36 No.1226522 Report

Quoted By:

>>1226493
>the horseshoe shape of the line makes it faster to walk from Abando to La Casilla
undoubtedly true, but V, U or horseshoe shaped lines are common, and they're simply not meant to go from one end to the other, they're rather like two lines joined up into one, or in this case an incomplete circle line that's completed by the metro and commuter trains.
Think of it like one tram line from Atxuri to the Guggenheim area, and another one from there to Casilla.
It's not THE most amazingly useful tram line ever, and it was part of a meme redevelopment, but it's not entirely pointless either. Like right in the middle between meme and useful LRT.

Apparently there's plans to extend it on the Atxuri side, the idea is to build a tunnel for the narrow gauge trains so they can reach further into the city, because god forbid there be a normal above-ground train terminus that isn't converted to something that looks like a metro. The part of the rail line that wouldn't be used anymore would then be converted to tram operation, adding about 2 km (currently it's 4,5 km).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 11:26:15 No.1226684 Report

Quoted By: >>1226697 >>1226703

>>1226343
But still, a monorail?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO evaluate_map_1.png, 636KiB, 940x500

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 11:57:41 No.1226697 Report

Quoted By: >>1226703 >>1226713 >>1226734

>>1226684
Official analysis compared a few different systems:
- Cable Cars - Cannot provide sufficient capacity and low reliability with effect from weather and long downtime for repairs
- Cable liners (like Oakland airport) - Low reliability and low flexibility
- Personal Rapid Transit - Cannot provide sufficient capacity
- Automated walkways - Low efficiency and take long time to repair when needed
- BRT and tramway with dedicated RoW - Efficiency not really different from regular cars/buses, poor on time performance
- BRT and tramway with dedicated RoW - use up extra road space, require overhaul to all the roads along the way and also removal of cables and infrastructure under the road, and create congestion

Actually, the situation of the NWNT LRT I just mentioned is probably why they are wary about at-grade systems. And roads in built-up part of East Kowloon where the system will connect to would be even narrower than NWNT area. The tram company current operating the tram on Hong Kong Islands was trying to create some public pressure by arguing they are cheaper to built and can turn a profit with fare much less than a monorail, however their opinion were pretty much ignored, just like their other proposals to expand their system on the Hong Kong Islands)

- And then, among elevated system, it's either APM(AGT) or Monorail. Monorail seems to be favorable due to less road space being used so it's being picked.

More detailed analysis reports: http://www.ktd.gov.hk/efls/download/ID_of_Green_PT_Modes.pdf

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20180818_202439.jpg, 283KiB, 1057x1440

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 12:25:48 No.1226703 Report

Quoted By: >>1226734

>>1226697
>>1226684
*Actually, from this report and the website, seems like AGT/APM system is now a possibility too as it doesn't make any judgement against it. Unlike earlier reports/advertisement materials. So let's see what would come out of it and will they make a come back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 12:41:37 No.1226713 Report

Quoted By: >>1226734

>>1226697
* Correction: The reason that was used to favor Monorail over APM was effect on landscape and size.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO bkn-20180721201021747-0721_00822 (...).jpg, 115KiB, 608x434

Anonymous Sat 18 Aug 2018 13:35:21 No.1226734 Report

Quoted By: >>1227211

>>1226703
>>1226713
>>1226697
Speaking of which the MTR company in Hong Kong will soon start operating the APM system in nearby Macau. I wonder will this experience turns out to be favorable to putting APM in the Kai Tak area. But the Macau APM system seems like a disaster even before operation start...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Aug 2018 18:10:37 No.1227211 Report

Quoted By: >>1228115

>>1226734
Looks like a lego factory desu

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Canberra_Metro_Testing.webm, 1MiB, 1280x720

Anonymous Tue 21 Aug 2018 08:17:22 No.1228111 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213460
>boondoggle edition
Plenty of complaints about Canberra Metro.
By the way Canberra,
YOUR
LIGHT RAIL
IS BEING
TESTED

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Aug 2018 08:37:13 No.1228115 Report

Quoted By:

>>1227211
Macau APM is more joke, toyish, childish, naive than Lego.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 13:41:34 No.1230747 Report

Quoted By:

bump .__.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 19:15:28 No.1230835 Report

Quoted By:

When I was sleeping earlier today I suddenly had a dream that I was watching a color documentary about post-war Showa era urban landscape in Japan, circa 1960s. In the dream I recall seeing double deck trams on streets, alongside with regular single deck trams.
Did such thing actually existed in history of Japan?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO KCStreetcar_Map_NS_20171004-Upda (...).jpg, 670KiB, 1275x1801

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 20:30:41 No.1230882 Report

Quoted By: >>1231340

>>1226270
>Come on Amerifats, how are your meme streetcars doing?
Well, since you asked.

Kansas City has a little streetcar running along main street for no raisin. Rides are free, and the line is financed by sales tax on nearby businesses. The streetcar goes nowhere that cannot be reached by anybody going downtown, which means people who either either have a car or take the bus. The proposed southern extension would terminate near a university, but all the students there either live in walking distance from the university, take the bus or have cars as well, so the streetcar doesn't give them much more mobility.

The line is part of a new city-wide brand for public transportation called RideKC, with new buses and new bus stops added throughout the metro area.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 20:34:38 No.1230884 Report

Quoted By: >>1230886

Trams are good and you're a retard & your moms a slut

t. Aussie Train Guy

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 20:38:53 No.1230886 Report

Quoted By:

>>1230884
In general yes, in America no.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 10:34:36 No.1231170 Report

Quoted By: >>1231172 >>1231197 >>1231372 >>1231386

What do you think about the Gmunden Stadtregiotram project in Austria?

The first test ride on the new section happened on 6 August.
The whole project is about connecting an older short single tram line in the Austrian town of Gmunden (13,000 ppl !!! ) to a local narrow gauge railway which had its terminus on the other side of the old town. The result is creating a longer system where tram-like vehicles are operated and a new tram section which goes straight through the old town streets and over a bridge with 2 new stops.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 10:35:41 No.1231172 Report

Quoted By: >>1231173

>>1231170

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 10:38:22 No.1231173 Report

Quoted By:

>>1231172

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 12:07:09 No.1231197 Report

Quoted By: >>1231213

>>1231170
unironically 11/10

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 13:01:34 No.1231213 Report

Quoted By: >>1231228 >>1231386

>>1231197
Why?
I am actually kinda worried about the whole purpose of this. Although it is definitely a great concept, the whole ammount of money put into this reminds me of American streetcar projects. I am affraid the passenger demand is not high enough to justify the project.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 14:02:58 No.1231228 Report

Quoted By: >>1231234

>>1231213
>short tram is of little use but high cost
>train line ends outside of city center
>train line gets better coverage within the city
>two systems combined into one meaning lower total operational cost
>only a short section needs to be built (is the old part getting double tracked btw?)
>tram line gets new rolling stock
Seems like a great project.

>I am affraid the passenger demand is not high enough to justify the project.
But isn't that the point, increasing passenger demand? Now you get an overlapping demand of both tram and train users onto one line, that will make the whole thing much more efficient than having two different systems. Also like I said the total operational cost will be lower, so that's an improvement even if demand is low.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 14:48:37 No.1231234 Report

Quoted By: >>1231264 >>1231372 >>1231483 >>1231491

>>1231228
>train line ends outside of city center
It is hard of talking about city in this case. It is a little town and the local narrow gauge train that got connected to the tram line had a terminus in the very centre, just a few hundred metres away from the original tram terminus.

>tram line gets new rolling stock
Which is super expensive initial costs and even more service costs during the time. The capacity of the new trams is more than double of the original trams which was most of the times more than enough (the number of passangers used to be very low)

The lower operational costs is possibly the only benefit I see but on the other hand, there will be increased service on the originally train line and also the new vehicles service costs increase much more. So basically the operational costs will increase in total, just they will be probably a little lower than if there would be two systems with the same frequency of service. Hard to say.

The thing is the tram and the locla narrow gauge train both had very little demand before the project. And now you connect them, which is wise, but you also increase dramatically the frequency of service and the capacity of the vehicles and you buy modern expensive vehicles. The total costs skyrockets and the demand increase results are very hypothetical. It is not a big city, it is a town of 13,000 with an agglomeration of few more thousand plus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 16:28:47 No.1231264 Report

Quoted By: >>1231372 >>1231386

>>1231234
I'd rather have too much infrastructure for too few people than the American disease of places like Phoenix.

Then again, 13,000 seems extremely marginal for rail transit. In burgerland anything under 200,000 is simply out of the question.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 21:09:28 No.1231340 Report

Quoted By:

>>1230882
You think that if they extended it out to the university, students might ride it into downtown to go to restaurants and bars and such. Might stimulate some growth.

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 22:45:51 No.1231372 Report

Quoted By:

>>1231170
>>1231234
>>1231264
Not gonna lie, this project is giving me a raging erection. And I believe tram-trains even in rather rural areas are the future.
I dream of a world where public transport is so good that no one even wants to use a car anymore, let alone needs to. This tram definitely isn't too much if everyone used it instead of a car.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 Aug 2018 23:37:50 No.1231386 Report

Quoted By: >>1231495

>>1231170
Holy shit I had no idea they were planning this. Tfw the all-time record holder for worlds smallest tram system gets an extension!!!

>>1231213
I dunno, from what I've been reading about it the last 30 minutes it seems like a very sane project. Stern & Hafferl has started operating their local railroads with tram vehicles anyway so why not connect the tram to the Traunseebahn making both a lot more useful. Only real con I can think of is the trams being pretty long (5 parts) making the weird situation in which the trams are heavier and more expensive to operate than the trains they replace. But they're obviously expecting a lot of new passengers, and as I've seen what tram operation has accomplished in the Karlsruhe area, where local railways going through absolute nowhere became succesful tram lines, I think their decision to go all-in with the project might very well turn out to be the right one.

>>1231264
Even though the amount of potential passengers required to justify a tram is ridiculously high in the US because of the cager culture, and pretty much the lowest in the world in Germany and Austria considering the regional tram lines they've been constructing in recent years, you have to consider that in this case the lines are already there and operational. The choice is leaving them as a tourist attraction, further stripping down the schedule to keep it affordable, or put in a little extra money to create something a region like that could normally never dream of. If you're lucky enough to have a tram system and a regional rail line available for your 20.000 people, why not use them to their full potential?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 30 Aug 2018 05:58:22 No.1231483 Report

Quoted By: >>1235005

>>1231234
>It is hard of talking about city in this case. It is a little town and the local narrow gauge train that got connected to the tram line had a terminus in the very centre, just a few hundred metres away from the original tram terminus.
Right, but now the local train will cross the whole city getting more catchment area, and reach the mainline train station. That's a better connection overall.

>>tram line gets new rolling stock
>Which is super expensive initial costs and even more service costs during the time
You can't keep the old trains/trams running for ever, or rather you can, but eventually it will become really expensive as you're basically running heritage vehicles.

>The capacity of the new trams is more than double of the original trams which was most of the times more than enough (the number of passangers used to be very low)
How was the capacity/demand of the local train line? I think you should see this whole project as the train line eating up the local tram, not like the tram getting a bigass overhaul.

>The lower operational costs is possibly the only benefit I see but on the other hand, there will be increased service on the originally train line and also the new vehicles service costs increase much more. So basically the operational costs will increase in total
Well yeah, running public transit isn't free, but it's a useful service. In the end it's all part of a larger scheme of having the whole region or even country well connected. There's no arguing on whether it's good or bad to invest more for better public transit, as it comes down to preference. One can be against it and say that only the bare minimum should be spent, then only people with no other choice will use transit, or one can be in favour of spending more to make transit more attractive, then more people will use it, though it will still cost more. otoh people will save money on cars, which in turn will go to other spending which can be good for the economy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 30 Aug 2018 06:08:48 No.1231491 Report

Quoted By:

>>1231234
>The thing is the tram and the locla narrow gauge train both had very little demand before the project. And now you connect them, which is wise, but you also increase dramatically the frequency of service and the capacity of the vehicles and you buy modern expensive vehicles. The total costs skyrockets and the demand increase results are very hypothetical.
They really aren't tho, the unusual thing would be for demand not to increase. The project is a clear contender for some delicious induced demand. Also think of the tourist potential, it's not the same getting to Gmunden, taking the tram which runs prolly with a low frequency, getting off, walking to the local train station and taking the train, than changing over at the very station from the train to the tram-train. I'm not talking a huge wave of tourism, but certainly some hikers and day trippers.
It all reminds me of what you see in switzerland, they spend a lot of money on these sorts of small railways, and in turn you can get around the whole country without a car. It's a useful service for the population, it saves people money on cars which they can spend in more useful ways, and it promotes day tourism without stinking the places up with cars.

After all, we're not talking about some massive white elephant project, just a couple hundred meters of tram line and some new rolling stock which will be good for both the tram and the train line. Like I said, it's complicated to have a line using the same rolling stock forever, eventually maintenance costs will become very expensive and/or you need to rebuild the old trains which is also expensive, so likely at some point they'd have gotten new rolling stock anyway.
I mean, if it's really such an expense, then why not get rid of both the tram and the train and replace it all with buses?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 30 Aug 2018 06:47:52 No.1231495 Report

Quoted By:

>>1231386
>But they're obviously expecting a lot of new passengers

The time will show however I am rather sceptical in this case. Yes, it will probably increase the demand slightly, but if you double the train capacity and increasethe frequency, then to be justifiable the demand should increase at least in the same way (not even considering the fact, that both tram and local railway did not have a satisfiable demand even before).
I have bee to Austria many times. They have one of the best public transports in the world of course. At least in the cities (the regional transportation is definitely not as good as in Switzerland though). But I also see that lots of people are used to take a car instead, it is a rich country and having a car is so much more comfortable. The demand for public transportation seemed to me, and statistics tell I am right, lower than in my homecountry Czechia, where people still use buses and trams and trains not because of comfort but because of the price.
With this I want to say that I would be very surprised if this whole project would be a success and get big increase in passengers from cars to trams. In a country where affording a car is pretty easy thing for majority of population and the tram tickets are definitely not the cheapest option.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 30 Aug 2018 19:54:47 No.1231685 Report

Quoted By:

>>1215325

Yes, the 23 and the 56 tracks and wires still *mostly* exist, and even portions of the lines abandoned in the 80's. Not to mention that a lot of them are still under the pavement and could be rehabilitated easily like the McKinney Ave streetcar in Dallas. The real issue isn't anything to do with technical details of the system, the issue is actually that it's Philadelphia and this leads to total mismanagement. If Boston or New York had even a fraction of that network still in existence they would have it up and running in months.

I think that long-term, especially as north Philly gentrifies, we're going to see more lines reopen like the Girrard line.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 30 Aug 2018 20:00:02 No.1231687 Report

Quoted By: >>1231689

>>1215394
This study made every transit advocate on the East Coast reeeee with rage, because this is how Boston paved over the Heath Loop - Forest Hills portion of the E line in the mid 2000's, and now that neighborhood is starting to realize it was a mistake.

>muh busses

Doesn't mean shit in snowy environments, those articulated busses aren't as effective as a streetcar in any city that has snow.

>>1215422
>What kind of complete fucking retards is SEPTA hiring to do a study?

The sort of entitled cagers who live in the suburbs around Philly and think they can run the city better than the people who live in it, of course. Just like every other stupid transit ''''''study'''''' done by a firm located in an office park 30 miles outside downtown that hasn't seen a streetcar since they tore up the interurbans 100 years ago.

>What kind of shitty fucking operator is SEPTA?

You'll notice a trend: States where there is one major city which has a state-run rather than a city run transit system suffer, while cities that run their own transit systems thrive. Compare Boston and Philly vs New Orleans or San Francisco. The reason SEPTA is garbage is because it's funding demands are done through the state, not the city of Philly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 30 Aug 2018 20:02:53 No.1231689 Report

Quoted By:

>>1231687
Isn't this why the New York subway is such trash?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 14:06:01 No.1231966 Report

Quoted By: >>1231967 >>1231969 >>1231989 >>1232021 >>1232037 >>1238632

New roundabout was just opened in my City ( Kosice, Slovakia ). There are actually two roundabouts in there, outer one for cars and inner one for trams.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 14:07:57 No.1231967 Report

Quoted By: >>1231989 >>1232021 >>1238632

>>1231966

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 14:13:38 No.1231969 Report

Quoted By: >>1231979

>>1231966
Also image of new trams city got ( Vario LF ).
They are quite comfy but lack AC. They are based on old Skoda/CKD T3 platform so by time they will be out of service the base will be over 100 years old.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 14:50:58 No.1231979 Report

Quoted By:

>>1231969
The information that they are a modernisation of old Tatras is just a meme. Sometimes they just keep the paperwork of old trams and make it bureaucratically a modernisation because of easier technical agreement process and some other business stuff, however there is nothing left from the old trams. Nothing. It is just a partly low-floor tram with similar length and concept of Tatra K2, that means it is a little outdated, definitely not a type of a modern-looking lowfloor tram, but whatever. People are apparently OK with that.
Nice roundabout BTW

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 15:12:51 No.1231989 Report

Quoted By: >>1232025 >>1232026 >>1232037

>>1231966
>>1231967
sexy. How is it used by the various lines, do they all just cross it, do some use it to turn, is it used as a loop for lines that end,...?
Also I love how the stop is always at the exiting direction of the roundabout. That way I can catch any tram going in a certain direction from the same stop, even if lines are rearranged.
10/10

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 17:16:17 No.1232021 Report

Quoted By: >>1232029

>>1231966
>>1231967
> tram tracks inside
Yikes.
The roundabout exit designs seems too high speed for the close crosswalk placement?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 17:38:23 No.1232025 Report

Quoted By:

>>1231989
at the beggining of each direction there are 3 lanes, each lane takes you to one exit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 17:40:50 No.1232026 Report

Quoted By: >>1232037

>>1231989
oh i just realised you talk about tram lines, each line crosses it and no line ends there. However it can bed used as a loop if some direction is not usable for some reason

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 17:45:05 No.1232029 Report

Quoted By: >>1232042

>>1232021
Yeah that is one of bad things about this, tram crosswalk is not that much of problem because pedestrians do not have right of way in front of trams. Road crosswalk at exits should be moved.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 18:06:18 No.1232037 Report

Quoted By: >>1232050

>>1231966
>>1231989
>>1232026
Is this at SOŠ automobilová? Looking at this map https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/trams/images/c/c9/Ko%C5%A1ice_2013.pdf/revision/latest?cb=20131115103357 trams use 5 of the 6 possible routes through the roundabout in daily service, which is pretty cool.

Also the yellow/blue livery looks really good. Does those tatra's justice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 18:23:05 No.1232042 Report

Quoted By: >>1232043 >>1232049 >>1232150

>>1232029
For my first point, it's against my philosophy to let tram tracks go into instead of around a roundabout. This is non-standard.
Worse still it appears to be unsignalized, hence the stop lines in front of crossing tram tracks inside the circular roadways. This does not favor prioritizing trams either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 18:25:01 No.1232043 Report

Quoted By:

>>1232042
>* non-standard, especially considering what seems to be sufficient land around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 18:45:47 No.1232049 Report

Quoted By:

>>1232042
tram crossings are signaled and trams are priorized

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 18:47:26 No.1232050 Report

Quoted By:

>>1232037
yes it is at modlavska street, at google street view / satelite you can see how old
roundabout looked liked

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO haarlemmermeercircuit.png, 383KiB, 755x597

Anonymous Fri 31 Aug 2018 23:08:01 No.1232150 Report

Quoted By: >>1234988 >>1235561

>>1232042
that's funny because to me, tracks on the outside of a roundabout sound completely alien as tram tracks are usually in the middle of the road, so having tracks on the outside of the roundabout would require trams to cross paralel traffic twice for no reason.

Actually, here in amsterdam tram roundabouts are a pretty common thing and they're all inside the car roundabout. Pic related is the one at the former Haarlemmermeerstation.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 05 Sep 2018 22:25:49 No.1233844 Report

Quoted By: >>1234912

Just found this outdated but really cool map of the Rhein-Ruhr tram systems.

For who's interested: found it on a site called http://www.cityrailtransit.com which is basically an unfinished urbanrail.net that has been abandoned for years but it has some pretty cool stuff.

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Sat 08 Sep 2018 15:46:30 No.1234912 Report

Quoted By: >>1235560 >>1235561

>>1233844
The Ruhr Area deserves a metro

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Sep 2018 21:24:04 No.1234988 Report

Quoted By:

>>1232150
>they're all inside the car roundabout
Most of them are kind of "on top of" the roundabout: Haarlemermeercircuit, Weteringschaans etc. are all tram circuits that mostly share the RoW with other traffic.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tramlink_128_tramlink_127_r112_k (...).jpg, 491KiB, 1024x683

Anonymous Sat 08 Sep 2018 22:47:27 No.1235005 Report

Quoted By: >>1235611

>>1231483
>How was the capacity/demand of the local train line?
Apparently they even ran double units during peak hours. Which makes me wonder how that is done from now on, since 60m long trams certainly don't fit on the urban line.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 10 Sep 2018 08:22:54 No.1235560 Report

Quoted By:

>>1234912
Iif it helps, they have like 4 premetro systems.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1024px-Haarlemmermeerspoorlijnen (...).png, 255KiB, 1024x951

Anonymous Mon 10 Sep 2018 08:28:38 No.1235561 Report

Quoted By: >>1235611 >>1236945

>>1234912
Iif it helps, they have like 4 premetro systems.

>>1232150
Recreate the Haarlemmermeerspoorlijnen please.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 10 Sep 2018 08:34:38 No.1235562 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213460
trams/streetcars are good
fuck you and your car congested hellhole

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 10 Sep 2018 12:43:08 No.1235588 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213476
It's usually just a way for mobbed up contractors to scam the taxpayers

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 10 Sep 2018 12:50:03 No.1235590 Report

Quoted By: >>1235611

Fuck trams, I want my second level monorail already. Just build tracks that go above the road and those become the new buses. People would just climb the stairs to get on.

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Mon 10 Sep 2018 13:43:19 No.1235611 Report

Quoted By:

>>1235005
10/10 comfy pic
>>1235561
>Iif it helps, they have like 4 premetro systems.
Does not help, actually makes it worse. It's such a mess of a place with a mess of a public transport system.
>>1235590
What city are we talking about?
Elevators are important as well

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Zuidtangent BRT near former De K (...).jpg, 2MiB, 1970x1464

Anonymous Fri 14 Sep 2018 01:15:24 No.1236945 Report

Quoted By:

>>1235561
>Recreate the Haarlemmermeerspoorlijnen please.
Many of the more important lines have already been reopened as a light rail or BRT prepared for light rail conversion. I think we will see most of the network restored for tram operation in ~20 years or so.

The Haarlemmermeerlijnen were one of the biggest failures in Dutch railway history, being opened in an era when local railways were being replaced by buses, serving areas with very little inhabitants. Some lines had passenger service for little more than 10 years before they ceased operation. But in recent years, many lines have been reopened for rail or bus:
Amsterdam Willemspark - Bovenkerk: in use as a heritage tramway, Amsterdam light rail line 51 has a parallel route
Bovenkerk(ish) - Legmeerpolder: used by A'dam light rail line 51
Legmeerpolder - Uithoorn: will be used by tram 51 extension (opening 2022)
Uithoorn - Mijdrecht: used as BRT bus lane (prepared for LRT conversion)
Uithoorn - Aalmeer: used as BRT bus lane (see pic related at former De Kwakel station, prepared for LRT conversion)
Aalsmeer - Hoofddorp - Haarlem: BRT bus lane has been built on the entire route, but mostly on new allignment, prepared for LRT conversion
Hoofddorp - Nieuw Vennep: used as BRT bus lane (prepared for LRT conversion)

Bovenkerk - Aasmeer has been mentioned in light rail plans before but nothing on the table currently
Mijdrecht - Loenen will probably be reopened as BRT or LRT to Breukelen someday
Nieuw Vennep - Leiden already came back as the railway Amsterdam - Schiphol Airport - Nieuw Vennep - Leiden
Uithoorn - Alphen aan de Rijn will probably never reopen because the former allignment is already in use as a provincial road and the towns it served still small and unimportant

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 14 Sep 2018 17:13:26 No.1237156 Report

Quoted By:

>>1213460
>Write your congressmen
>DC

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 14:39:52 No.1238558 Report

Quoted By:

Meanwhile, in the old Europe, things run more or less as they always have run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGXKqWPDNjU

A new depot should be established and the new refurbished in the near future. There will be 122 trams (27 m long). In hoping that another of the old inner city depots would remain in heritage use.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO forsta-sparvagnen-fran-t-central (...).jpg, 137KiB, 1200x900

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 18:07:36 No.1238610 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214521
They eventually opened it. After the municipal elections, most parties want it extended further. But as it stands, 45/101 municipal council seats belong to parties that don't, against 43/101 that do, and 13/101 belonging to the communists who want to investigate first.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 18:52:37 No.1238627 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214373
>What would such a guideline look like, /n/?

Explaining relations between factors like speed, cost, capacity, popularity, general advantages etc. step by step.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 18 Sep 2018 19:04:35 No.1238632 Report

Quoted By: >>1240681 >>1244638

>>1231966
>>1231967

Roundabouts are cancer

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:23:16 No.1240679 Report

Quoted By: >>1240715 >>1240723 >>1240726 >>1260399

FOOLPROOF NEW AGE TREND CHASING CITY STREETCAR HOW TO GUIDE:
1. DO NOT MIX TRAFFIC! American motorists are idiots and will crash their cars every other week, by having a fixed route form of transport that cannot swerve or avoid any crashes and you are asking people to plow into it at all costs. Separate streetcar traffic from regular traffic at all costs, with physical barriers and signage to prevent cars from even getting near streetcars
2. GIVE STREETCARS RIGHT OF WAY. If streetcars have to wait in traffic with cars they are no better than glorified busses. They are supposed to be expedient and can carry large numbers of people through large dense urban areas, which brings me to my third point
3. GIVE STREETCARS A PLACE TO GO. When building your VERY FIRST streetcar in your decaying modern midwestern city, GIVE IT PLACES TO GO. Stadiums, hospitals, inner and outer downtown, airports and popular tourist destinations.
4. INTERCHANGES. I cannot stress how important enough this is, if you have even a rinky dink 2 line metro system in your city, it is still important to have interchanges to other forms of public transport. No one is going to want to catch a train, then walk to a bus stop, then catch a bus to a tram stop, just to get to where they want to go. People want to minimise the amount of times they have to change between forms of transport

The best example of a modern city setting up a streetcar system (and i am cheating since this isn't america) in recent years is the gold coast's G-link, and it hits all these spots:
1. separated from traffic
2. has right of way
3. goes from the beach, to the city, to the hospital, to the university
4. has an interchange right next to the heavy rail line
It's really good and really convenient and they're going to be expanding it to the airport in coming years.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:36:45 No.1240681 Report

Quoted By:

>>1238632
American spoted

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:38:38 No.1240682 Report

Quoted By: >>1240687

streetcars are whack. a 10 million dollar bus that can only go on a track, good job.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Sep 2018 12:09:21 No.1240687 Report

Quoted By:

>>1240682
Basic tram is like 1 milion dollars... In shitholes at least

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Sep 2018 16:06:46 No.1240715 Report

Quoted By:

>>1240679
it should give americans hope that even gold coast can implement a fantastic light rail

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Sep 2018 18:13:30 No.1240723 Report

Quoted By:

>>1240679
10/10 post
>tfw some random anon on /n/ understands transit planning better than 90% of professional planners

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Sep 2018 18:21:40 No.1240726 Report

Quoted By:

>>1240679
It seems like if you want to have a really good transport service, you need to get the buses and the rail under the same authority, to make transfers easier and to make sure the system actually fits together.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 24 Sep 2018 19:19:22 No.1240760 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214373
> Passenger Rail for Dummies
>>1214375 pointed out general transit/transport principles is much needed. They need a for-dummies book for bus and urban planning as much as railway. Hell, even roads, aside from traffic management.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20180928_155643.jpg, 1MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Fri 28 Sep 2018 14:46:27 No.1242001 Report

Quoted By:

Commencing Moscow mini dump.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20180928_155859.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Fri 28 Sep 2018 14:48:55 No.1242004 Report

Quoted By: >>1242038

High-floor is still the norm, but some lines like number 11 run exclusively low-floor units.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20180928_155625.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Fri 28 Sep 2018 14:50:19 No.1242005 Report

Quoted By:

I counted as many as 4 different liveries, the blue one,...

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20180928_155702.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Fri 28 Sep 2018 14:51:32 No.1242006 Report

Quoted By:

...the orange one,...

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20180928_155821.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Fri 28 Sep 2018 14:57:18 No.1242008 Report

Quoted By:

...the white and cream one,...

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20180928_155718.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Fri 28 Sep 2018 14:59:05 No.1242009 Report

Quoted By:

...and the red, white and blue one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Sep 2018 16:22:57 No.1242038 Report

Quoted By: >>1242170

>>1242004
Never seen this thing in Msk... Is this new?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20180929_032620.jpg, 339KiB, 1200x800

Anonymous Sat 29 Sep 2018 00:27:10 No.1242170 Report

Quoted By: >>1242174

>>1242038
>>1242038
>>1242038
Internet says they entered service in 2017,so yeah, brand spanking new.

I've also been able to gather that some of the single section trams are actually quite recent as well, they have a low-floor area in the centre for wheelchair accessibility. Manufacturer rates capacity at around 200 pax, which isn't really believable at 4 pax/m2, but I would believe 150-160, which is still about as much as a large articulated bus, so they're still quite efficient over buses considering that operation and maintenance are likely cheaper.

My impression is that the tram network in Moscow has stabilised as a peripheral and feeder system, and that further closures are unlikely except maybe following Metro extensions that were to parallel tram lines. Unfortunately, the same may not be true for trolleybuses. Public transport promotional imagery also seems to favour buses and trams while giving little to no consideration to trolleybuses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Sep 2018 00:33:19 No.1242174 Report

Quoted By: >>1242260

>>1242170
Is this orange ones, or new Bитязь?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Sep 2018 07:01:51 No.1242260 Report

Quoted By:

>>1242174
Orange ones, you can hardly tell from my pic but if you look really close on the side windows there's two small yellow sticlers with a wheelchair symbol. Though I wouldn't know if some of them have gotten a blue livery which seems to be the current one.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tram.jpg, 141KiB, 1198x674

Anonymous Mon 01 Oct 2018 11:37:45 No.1242902 Report

Quoted By: >>1242903 >>1242904 >>1242919

Our new tram was revealed today, what do you think about the appearance

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO TampereenRatikkaHeader.jpg, 365KiB, 1920x1080

Anonymous Mon 01 Oct 2018 11:39:11 No.1242903 Report

Quoted By:

>>1242902
Personally I like the simplicity

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Oct 2018 11:56:11 No.1242904 Report

Quoted By: >>1242972

>>1242902
All modern trams look the same. Nothing will replace boxy and round tatras

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 5840415431_f6beb9d6f0_b.jpg, 594KiB, 1024x919

Anonymous Mon 01 Oct 2018 13:20:29 No.1242919 Report

Quoted By:

>>1242902
It's ugly. You should have bought Crotram.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Oct 2018 16:49:54 No.1242972 Report

Quoted By: >>1242999 >>1243053

>>1242904
Blame safety standards and basically no more possible inovation in the tram body design.
It was a whole different story back in the 90s when lots of producers tried to introduce their own unique solution of lowfloor trams. ULF, Eurotram, Breda Transpole, Socimi S350, etc.
Those times were far more exciting

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Oct 2018 19:08:50 No.1242999 Report

Quoted By:

>>1242972
Fuck safety regulation, I want my square boxes back.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO maxresdefault.jpg, 257KiB, 1531x861

Anonymous Mon 01 Oct 2018 23:21:13 No.1243053 Report

Quoted By: >>1243056

>>1242972
Apparently the bumper on their previous model is made as it is to make people bounce off it rather than fall under.

What's more with modern trams is that the low floor requirement essentially forces the same internal layout to every model as well.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO c9af7a8433447ad990c00bddbf5bc17f.jpg, 137KiB, 1024x690

Anonymous Mon 01 Oct 2018 23:33:57 No.1243056 Report

Quoted By:

>>1243053
The old trams had this cow catcher thing that also applied the brakes. I haven't seen any mention that the bumper in the new cars would do the same.

Those albert couplers were there purely for towing, these weren't multiple unit operation capable.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_131806.jpg, 1024KiB, 3120x4160

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:32:05 No.1243289 Report

Quoted By: >>1244267

Commencing St. Petersburg electric transport museum mini dump. See also >>1243287

Pic related is replica of 1907 tram.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_131956.jpg, 1MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:34:34 No.1243290 Report

Quoted By: >>1244267

1933-34 unit, some of these survived the war and were in service until 1979.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_132012.jpg, 1MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:38:12 No.1243291 Report

Quoted By: >>1244267

"Elephant" tram, because of its rounded shape and large size
Built right after the Great Patriotic War (WW2), 1946-47, using bits and pieces of earlier trams.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_133832.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:41:33 No.1243292 Report

Quoted By: >>1244267

"Dandy"tram, from the late 50s,called like that because of its colors and streamlined shape. Has an aluminium body and comfy seats.
(it's covered in Christmas lights).

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_133412.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:43:00 No.1243293 Report

Quoted By: >>1244267

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_133823.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:44:02 No.1243294 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_132142.jpg, 1MiB, 3120x4160

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:45:41 No.1243295 Report

Quoted By:

I think this was the Elephant's interior.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_133856.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:46:58 No.1243296 Report

Quoted By:

The museum is housed in a tram depot.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_134205.jpg, 3MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:48:09 No.1243297 Report

Quoted By: >>1244267

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_134521_1.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:51:02 No.1243298 Report

Quoted By:

The tram depot is operational,other than the museum area.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_20181003_134510.jpg, 2MiB, 4160x3120

Anonymous Wed 03 Oct 2018 12:55:01 No.1243299 Report

Quoted By: >>1244267

Regular tram passing in front of the museum.

That's all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Oct 2018 13:10:23 No.1244267 Report

Quoted By: >>1244351 >>1244360

>>1243289
>>1243290
>>1243291
>>1243292
>>1243293
>>1243297
>>1243299
St. Petersburg confirmed for most European city in Russia

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Oct 2018 20:02:05 No.1244351 Report

Quoted By:

>>1244267
Possibly, but they've also removed most tram service from the city center. Only one line, number 3, passes through the center, and it lacks ROW. At one point when I was on it it took about 5 minutes for just one stop because it was stuck in traffic. Sad!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Oct 2018 20:38:12 No.1244360 Report

Quoted By:

>>1244267
It looks as russian as possible

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 07 Oct 2018 17:00:55 No.1244638 Report

Quoted By: >>1244735 >>1244763

>>1238632
Name 1 reason why regular intersections are better than roundabouts

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO chad 4 way.jpg, 168KiB, 1920x836

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 00:09:00 No.1244735 Report

Quoted By: >>1244740

>>1244638

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 00:47:15 No.1244740 Report

Quoted By:

>>1244735
lmfao

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO MidtownGreenwayTrail6.jpg, 126KiB, 800x525

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 01:39:10 No.1244751 Report

Quoted By:

>>1226270
We have three planned in Minnesota
First is one connecting St. Paul with the airport which is only being called a streetcar for political reason and for cheaper rolling stock, other than that its pretty much an planned as a LRT.

Second is one on Nicollet ave which is going no where, will probably end up being an aBRT, and if made into a streetcar will be a meme

Third is the Midtown greenway streetcar which is the most promising, the tldr of it goes as such:
Minneapolis purchased around 5 miles of old Soo line ROW. The ROW is special because its in a trench bellow street level in the heart of the city eliminating all but 2 grade crossings. If built it'll be faster end to end then driving even outside of rush hour and will connect 3 different metro lines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 03:00:45 No.1244763 Report

Quoted By: >>1244881

>>1244638
better control over throughput priority, especially in high traffic intersections

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO haaberstiring.jpg, 284KiB, 1280x720

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 18:09:39 No.1244881 Report

Quoted By: >>1244883 >>1244988

>>1244763
You can use another type of roundabout, still better than the equivalent regular intersection

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 18:19:43 No.1244883 Report

Quoted By:

>>1244881
>haaberstiring

Well, well. That's honestly pretty efficient use of space with some at grade intersections. I mean compared to cloverleaf intersection that has pretty mild footprint. Too bad that intersection put end to 6 and 7 trolleybuses :(

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Low-middle_tram_in_Tallinn.jpg, 1MiB, 2048x1536

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 18:29:29 No.1244884 Report

Quoted By: >>1244887 >>1244888

It is a miracle how that middle section hangs there.

I think there has not been a three section high floor tram of this type historically, like if I recall correctly, really early, in some obscure Eastern European or Middle Asian country.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 6949111t1hcb99.jpg, 447KiB, 1980x1485

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 18:39:49 No.1244887 Report

Quoted By: >>1244890

>>1244884
What's so obscure about that? Lot's of cities use trams with lowered parts, Helsinki being the closest to Tallinn. Also these lowered units got renovated and they ride as smooth as the new CAF ones.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 18:43:06 No.1244888 Report

Quoted By:

>>1244884
>this type

What type? Is KT8D5 close enough to your definition?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO pikaratikka2-1024x663.jpg, 55KiB, 1024x663

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 18:53:05 No.1244890 Report

Quoted By: >>1244892

>>1244887
Well that solution you guys have there, does belong to pretty obscure club. Thee sections, only two bogies. Usually there are at least three (like those new cars in Moscow) or four with the most traditional Jacobs bogie layout.

But indeed. That is the next trend in the low floor trams I think: you know, those kind of floating middle sections and mechanical Newton-linkages to maintain loading gauge. I'm waiting someone to make 5-section three bogie unit. Couldn't have worked for Helsinki because the loading gauge doesn't allow long enough cars for both a center-bogie and double doors.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Ülemiste4.jpg, 170KiB, 1024x693

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 19:04:30 No.1244892 Report

Quoted By: >>1244893

>>1244890
Yeah I prefer pic related layout more, seems more efficient

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 19:05:19 No.1244893 Report

Quoted By: >>1244896

>>1244892
Fixed bogies are less comfy tho.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO pastram.png, 8KiB, 970x323

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 19:05:53 No.1244894 Report

Quoted By:

Like this.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO liikuvvanker.jpg, 128KiB, 1000x654

Anonymous Mon 08 Oct 2018 19:09:13 No.1244896 Report

Quoted By:

>>1244893
They aren't fixed tho but yeah, fixed ones also cause more wear on the tracks

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Oct 2018 00:28:10 No.1244988 Report

Quoted By: >>1245046

>>1244881
Hahaha, insanity :3 Try to cross this shit as a pedestrian, as a cyclist you have to be afraid some idiotic cager asshole rolls over you just for fun

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Oct 2018 06:58:15 No.1245046 Report

Quoted By:

>>1244988
There are tunnels for cyclists and pedestrians on that roundabout

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 9ssxq41l62r11.1.png, 835KiB, 2048x1024

Anonymous Tue 09 Oct 2018 16:26:18 No.1245142 Report

Quoted By: >>1245146

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO lol13.jpg, 11KiB, 258x195

Anonymous Tue 09 Oct 2018 17:08:33 No.1245146 Report

Quoted By:

>>1245142

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 13 Oct 2018 05:58:30 No.1246101 Report

Quoted By: >>1246324

Going to Milwaukee at the end of the month but will miss the opening of their new streetcar by 4 days. So I will not get to experience yet another decaying midwestern city try and re-birth itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Oct 2018 00:30:57 No.1246324 Report

Quoted By:

>>1246101
You should be more disappointed you're going to miss their East-West BRT line.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 4xb00y2vh1t11.jpg, 1MiB, 3024x4032

Anonymous Fri 19 Oct 2018 15:47:10 No.1248029 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO metro_rail.jpg, 501KiB, 2016x1512

Anonymous Wed 24 Oct 2018 18:59:50 No.1249840 Report

Quoted By: >>1250072

I like the traditional aesthetics of the Buffalo light rail. Non-articulated single cars, high floor and huge loading gauge.

Wouldn't have looked out of the place 60 years ago.

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Thu 25 Oct 2018 17:52:04 No.1250072 Report

Quoted By:

>>1249840
Nice

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Oct 2018 23:28:10 No.1250713 Report

Quoted By: >>1251352

Main problem with tram systems being built in the US today is that the government is behind them, so it's bloated, inefficient, and doesn't have to turn a profit. The trams of yesteryear were privately built, often by power companies

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Mon 29 Oct 2018 19:45:42 No.1251352 Report

Quoted By: >>1251390

>>1250713
t. Lolbertarian

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Oct 2018 21:41:26 No.1251390 Report

Quoted By: >>1251392

>>1251352
Nothing I said was untrue

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Oct 2018 21:51:03 No.1251392 Report

Quoted By: >>1251396

>>1251390
Well you basically said your opinion so it is hard proving if it is true or not.
Claiming something is a "main problem" is not a fact, but an opinion.

For instance the fact that it is not profitable is something like saying the grass is green. Majority of public transport systems are nonprofitable. For you it is a major problem, for me it is just another non-important fact.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Oct 2018 21:59:11 No.1251396 Report

Quoted By:

>>1251392
Public transportation in the US is entirely run by the government and none of it recoups its cost

When streetcar lines were built it was done by private companies, those companies made a profit or else they wouldn't exist for long

Not really an opinion unless you're kind of slow

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Oct 2018 23:38:34 No.1251445 Report

Quoted By: >>1255583

>>1214421
You do what UK systems do, like Edinburgh.
90% of the line is separated, then the last mile or so is street running in the centre.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Nov 2018 01:23:09 No.1252088 Report

Quoted By: >>1252134 >>1252138

I live in a city with transit corporation that has an extensive tram network, Toronto.

The vehicles and lines have a reputation for being absurdly difficult to drive and work that destroys mens souls. This is compared to downtown bus routes and subway lines.

Does anyone know why that is or might be? I can't under stand how something on rails is more stressful to operate in the downtown core than a bus which is expected to make turns and frequently change lanes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Nov 2018 07:47:59 No.1252134 Report

Quoted By:

>>1252088
Toronto trams don't have right off way, so they're in the streets in the middle of traffic. Literally sitting in a metal box while idiots with cars surround them

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Nov 2018 08:01:50 No.1252138 Report

Quoted By:

>>1252088
From the perspective of someone who's used (not driven) Melbourne's trams:
Going off the amount of collisions between trams and cars turning across their path (worldwide, like the wham bam tram) I'd say they're always on the look out for things in their path when at speed. There's frequently people walking across the tracks, often without looking. Finally, as a minor point, cagers at intersections where the tram turns can sometimes fail to sit far enough back from the tram. As a passenger, it's also quite frighting to think there might be some zombie cager (probably from out of town) that mows passengers down while they're alighting onto the street.

Also trolleypoles falling off and dragging down the overhead in Toronto lol @ your low tech.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Nov 2018 22:09:34 No.1253797 Report

Quoted By: >>1253805

I've been reading the "usa.streetsblog.org" and how come your transit planning costs run in hundreds of millions and build costs in milliards for a typical light rail line? That's like order of magnitude more than we have in the EU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 05 Nov 2018 22:21:29 No.1253805 Report

Quoted By: >>1253875

>>1253797
Politicians have to make sure their friends, especially "minority-owned contractors," get paid. Lots of graft and kickbacks. Plus the usual unnecessary red tape

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Nov 2018 02:29:15 No.1253875 Report

Quoted By: >>1253883

>>1253805
Back to /p...

Oh wait, this is actually interesting. Can you throw a breitbart link or something that could explain how these kinds of companies are used in corruption?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Nov 2018 02:57:11 No.1253883 Report

Quoted By: >>1257208 >>1260376 >>1260377

>>1253875
I also forgot that for the larger contractors, all of their labor is typically unionized so naturally that will add to the price tag. Those companies are experts in rigging contracts, working the bidding system to their advantage, and milking the government for all it can get. There is no way it should cost $100 million or more per mile for surface rail, especially in cases like streetcars where the government already owns the ROW.

There simply isn't much literature about it because if there was, it would be from federal racketeering trials.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 57af6d6781ac9.image.jpg, 102KiB, 1200x599

Anonymous Tue 06 Nov 2018 05:28:27 No.1253929 Report

Quoted By:

Heard you guys like light rail that goes no where, over budget, and dying for ridership.
Haha it's the worst.

>it terminates in my neighborhood

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 11 Nov 2018 16:06:57 No.1255583 Report

Quoted By: >>1255682

>>1251445
But why not separate the last 10% track too? That way you can get a tram system that's more or less guaranteed to be on time when junction signaling are also properly handled

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 11 Nov 2018 23:43:40 No.1255682 Report

Quoted By: >>1255687

>>1255583
Because the space is finite and widening the streets in the city center may be out of the question because one would need to raze down too many buildings people rather would want to keep. It is always a compromise between speed, cost and access to places. Plus Brits have it real easy, they have so much mothballed railway right of way so they can go all in with barriers and everything.

If trams must be on the main street where all the through going traffic also is, the "car party" would protest if the number of lanes was reduced or too many parking spaces were taken away. Most likely trams and buses would have shared lane and stops.

If, on the other hand, a narrower side street is used for the tram, perhaps because it is the primary shopping street, there still would be delivery vehicles and access to properties, people navigating to perpendicular streets, plus the odd lost hick, but all in all not too much to disturb the tram traffic if they are given the priority, which is easier to do when they are not on the main artery.

Priority at intersections anyway is the most important factor for journey time when the traffic levels are below jam formation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 11 Nov 2018 23:53:20 No.1255687 Report

Quoted By:

>>1255682
>Because the space is finite and widening the streets in the city center may be out of the question because one would need to raze down too many buildings people rather would want to keep. It is always a compromise between speed, cost and access to places. Plus Brits have it real easy, they have so much mothballed railway right of way so they can go all in with barriers and everything.
If it's city center then how about service frequency? That's supposed to be the most frequent part of the network?
>If trams must be on the main street where all the through going traffic also is, the "car party" would protest if the number of lanes was reduced or too many parking spaces were taken away. Most likely trams and buses would have shared lane and stops.
They're going to complain even without dedicated lanes anyway
>If, on the other hand, a narrower side street is used for the tram, perhaps because it is the primary shopping street, there still would be delivery vehicles and access to properties, people navigating to perpendicular streets, plus the odd lost hick, but all in all not too much to disturb the tram traffic if they are given the priority, which is easier to do when they are not on the main artery.
That would also be sidelining the tram. Also, won't those service road have higher risk of being blocked by something random from nearby facilities?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO R-871598-1272217523.jpeg.jpg, 81KiB, 600x597

Anonymous Mon 12 Nov 2018 20:00:49 No.1255909 Report

Quoted By:

>>1222213
>Supertram
Heh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 17 Nov 2018 21:25:48 No.1257178 Report

Quoted By:

Any proper non-pathetic vids and pics from El Paso?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 18 Nov 2018 00:54:49 No.1257208 Report

Quoted By: >>1257219 >>1257359

>>1253883
Imagine if the US had an anti-corruption agency with teeth, like the old Hong Kong one...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 18 Nov 2018 02:09:35 No.1257219 Report

Quoted By:

>>1257208
Sounds like recepie for corruption.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 18 Nov 2018 19:26:33 No.1257359 Report

Quoted By: >>1257390

>>1257208
The FBI does a lot of anti-corruption work, it's just that there are a ton of municipal governments and not enough feds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 18 Nov 2018 21:40:20 No.1257390 Report

Quoted By:

>>1257359
>it's just that there are a ton of municipal governments and not enough feds.
>implying I'm talking about the municipal level

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 00:14:44 No.1257430 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214373
>Passenger rail hasn't been a thing for the majority of Americans since about the time Amtrak formed in 1971
A 25 year old colleague was planning a trip on Amtrak. He had never been on a train of any kind in his life.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO artic in schöneiche.jpg, 276KiB, 1024x683

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 18:04:27 No.1257606 Report

Quoted By:

*slow walking and jazzy beat*

Congratulations, Schöneiche!

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO artic in schöneiche.jpg, 276KiB, 1024x683

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 18:07:49 No.1257609 Report

Quoted By: >>1257891

*Plays Booker T & the M G 's - Green Onions*

Congratulations, Schöneiche!

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ocmap.jpg, 220KiB, 723x565

Anonymous Tue 20 Nov 2018 06:16:33 No.1257742 Report

Quoted By: >>1257891

Where would trams be optimal in this place?

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Tue 20 Nov 2018 22:16:30 No.1257891 Report

Quoted By:

>>1257609
Looks like Helsinki tram
>>1257742
Post population density map

Short answer : Everywhere. Pacific Electric.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO dubaitram_1_Hero_Desktop.jpg, 225KiB, 1200x400

Anonymous Fri 30 Nov 2018 11:44:01 No.1260320 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Nov 2018 19:09:16 No.1260376 Report

Quoted By:

>>1253883
Just for reference:
Streetcar lines cost 5-20 million € per km in the EU

>>1214421

It depends. Where the lines are seperated from the normal lanes, which is mostly the case on main roads and along urban motorways, trams can operate at reasonable speeds. It can get messy and much slower in the old quarters and city centers, though. especially during ruh hours. Even then It's still helpful that in Europe trams (and buses) have general right of way over private vehicles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Nov 2018 19:10:23 No.1260377 Report

Quoted By:

>>1253883
Just for reference:
Streetcar lines cost 5-20 million € per km in the EU

>>1214421

It depends. Where the lines are seperated from the normal lanes, which is mostly the case on main roads and along urban motorways, trams can operate at reasonable speeds. It can get messy and much slower in the old quarters and city centers, though. especially during rush hours. Even then It's still helpful that in Europe trams (and buses) have general right of way over private vehicles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Nov 2018 20:29:27 No.1260396 Report

Quoted By:

>>1222222

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Nov 2018 20:48:07 No.1260399 Report

Quoted By:

>>1240679
>your decaying modern midwestern city
my sides are in orbit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 01 Dec 2018 00:05:24 No.1260434 Report

Quoted By:

>>1214421
Technically, there should be and there are rules against delaying trams. Victoria has a rule that it's illegal to delay a tram, for example by stopping while on the tracks to turn. In practice, cars sit on the tram tracks in the middle of Bridge Rd, Richmond all the time when turning from one side of the street to another. People will also stop in front of trams on Sydney Rd because no rule is going to stop them from doing what they expect to be able to do with cars, which is just stop traffic behind them while they wait to do a right turn.

The fastest sections of Melbourne's tram network are the light rail sections, since they have actual level crossing gates etc. Swanston St would also be fast in the middle of the night after most people are gone, since it's a bicycle and tram only corridor. There are other issues, like the drivers find it harder to close the doors than a train because all they can do is ring the bell to warn people off, or if people are trying to flood a crowded tram then the driver has to use microphone/yell out of his compartment to tell people to get off because they're not going to fit.

I'd also say that street-running trams are usually legacy systems built before the rise of the automobile which are only now facing issues with traffic where once they probably ran a lot fater. I'd differentiate these systems from a modern 'light rail' quite a bit as light rail vehicles tend to be longer than the average tram. So in terms of cost the rollingstock part is lower due to smaller units.

Anoɳymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO R_bogestra_strassenbahn_entgleist.jpg, 162KiB, 960x540

Anoɳymous Wed 05 Dec 2018 20:41:56 No.1261848 Report

Quoted By:

>a truck carrying six cars crashed into a tram today in Bochum, Germany
>eleven people were hurt, six of them severely so
>the tram had to be put back on the tracks with two cranes
>overhead wires may or may not have had to be removed
>recovery took until late evening
>several hundred thousands of euros in damage
>truck driver apparently "overlooked" the 30m (that's more than 100 feet) vehicle

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