/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1218775

[44 / 9 / ?]

Antarctic Railway

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 01:10:45 No.1218775 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1218776 >>1218782 >>1218810 >>1219008 >>1225216

Say the Atlantic Treaty was repealed and mining began on Antarctica. A mode of transport is required to transport raw commodities from inland mines to sea ports. How would this network be built and what kind of equipment would they run? The Qinghai–Tibet railway runs smoothly through extreme cold temperatures so it is possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 01:35:50 No.1218776 Report

Quoted By: >>1218779

>>1218775
Just how much does it warm in the summer? I imagine some massive sun kinks or loads of broken rail.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO fb81da1bffd1c402c7f0b791cdb70c24.jpg, 65KiB, 800x531

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 02:20:29 No.1218779 Report

Quoted By: >>1218805

>>1218776
The normal summer temperature is below 0 C. There is a lot of sun in the summer but massive freight trains run through the Sahara.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 02:54:31 No.1218782 Report

Quoted By: >>1222020

>>1218775
>mining began on Antarctica
Antartic soil is kilometers below the ice, it's nearly impossible to get there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 03:09:59 No.1218785 Report

Quoted By:

Impossible. Temperature isn't the problem. You can't build a railway on moving glaciers that are moving in different directions.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 56150af447deb0f5c5b53506d4c917ca.jpg, 205KiB, 1552x1024

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 03:13:49 No.1218789 Report

Quoted By: >>1218793 >>1218814 >>1219070

As others have said, the main problem with building a railroad in Antarctica is the unstable surface. There is a solution though, just use really big wheels that float over snow instead of rails and you can run trains in Antarctica as long as your generator will allow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 03:25:33 No.1218793 Report

Quoted By: >>1218794 >>1218968

>>1218789
That isn't a train, that's a really big truck.

Basically just a specialized version of this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 03:31:19 No.1218794 Report

Quoted By: >>1218797 >>1218970

>>1218793
It's still the most logical overland freight transport method in the Antarctic. Roads would be too unreliable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 03:41:38 No.1218797 Report

Quoted By: >>1224744

>>1218794
Cargo planes might actually be cheaper, given that it's cheaper to build an ice runway than an ice road.

But that obviously opens up a host of problems involving weather, not to mention things like maintaining planes out in the middle of nowhere, air traffic control, and that sort of thing.

This being said, I dig the idea of gigantic road trains driving on gigantic tires. I'm presuming you'd want to use a DMU configuration to maximize traction and allow for longer trains, but then you run into the problem of "if one tire blows out or one axle freezes up, or one engine craps out, we're two weeks drive away from anywhere."

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 04:26:58 No.1218805 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218779
That sun will heat the rail up nice and hot. If you don't do the welding work, you'll get kinks in the summer and a bunch of breaks in the winter. That's not even talking about what it does to engines, cars, and the roadbed. Ice will kill brake shoes, and softening ice will make for shitty roadbed.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 25495967913_e82312104e_k.jpg, 1MiB, 2048x1368

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 04:42:35 No.1218810 Report

Quoted By: >>1218935

>>1218775
probably an ice road like we use now in the north?

t. northern miner

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 05:06:56 No.1218814 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218789
Does that road train have a radar?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 16:20:41 No.1218935 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218810
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole_Traverse

This exists but they mainly use tractors instead of wheeled vehicles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 19:38:42 No.1218968 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218793
>That isn't a train
>Basically just a specialized version of this
>Road_train

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 19:44:01 No.1218970 Report

Quoted By: >>1218972 >>1218973

>>1218794
There are already roads in Antarctica

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 19:48:31 No.1218972 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218970
Yeah, but they're snow roads.

I think they only really run tractors across them, because regular wheeled road vehicles wouldn't be able to handle the snow surface.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 19:53:56 No.1218973 Report

Quoted By: >>1218983

>>1218970
>995 miles in ~40 days
There's got to be a better way then dragging heavy freight sleds with treaded tractors that can do 15 mph.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 20:29:34 No.1218983 Report

Quoted By: >>1218998

>>1218973
995 miles / 15 mph = 66.3 hours

I honestly have no idea how it takes them so long.

Maybe they're building the road as they're going, which would make sense given how low the current volume of cargo is.

I can't see trips taking more than a week once the road is already built and there's reasonably reliable equipment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 21:11:20 No.1218998 Report

Quoted By: >>1219000

>>1218983
Half the trip crosses a massive ice shelf, a permanent road is impractical.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 21:19:12 No.1219000 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218998
I mean seasonal snow roads like the North Pole Traverse.

You could have tractors build them at the beginning of the season and then massive overland trains handle the cargo load.

Frankly, I think only things like gemstones and precious metals are going to be worth mining in Antarctica, due to the immense transportation costs and logistical burdens. But giant antarctic snow trains are a really neat mental image.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO PistenBully.jpg, 80KiB, 940x529

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 22:12:20 No.1219005 Report

Quoted By:

this is what they use

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1059224041.jpg, 117KiB, 1000x541

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 22:32:24 No.1219008 Report

Quoted By: >>1219010

>>1218775
A good niche for this thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 22:37:38 No.1219010 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katabatic_wind#Impacts

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSCN2482.jpg, 2MiB, 4000x3000

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 23:10:21 No.1219017 Report

Quoted By: >>1219018 >>1219029

I worked in Antarctica with the USAP for about 7 years. It's logistically impossible.

For one, we had plenty of days that were in the 40s, which turned our ice runways into swimming pools.

Second, the shift nature of the ice would tear up the track in the span of a year.

The dark rail would heat up, and melt the surrounding ice.

Hurricane force winds are common, and come quick down there. So, good luck staying on the rails, or even keeping the rails clear of ice.

Large parts of the continent routinely break off. What are you going to do when part of the ice the size of Manhattan decides it doesn't want to deal with you anymore?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 23:16:04 No.1219018 Report

Quoted By: >>1219020 >>1219029

>>1219017
How would you arrange transportation for a hypothetical Antarctic mining operation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 23:29:33 No.1219020 Report

Quoted By: >>1219029

>>1219018
It would likely be the same way we now transport the majority of our supplies from McMurdo to South Pole, via staggered traverses, with mined materials loaded onto a cargo ship.

But, given the massive undertaking that is offloading our once a year cargo ship at McMurdo, it likely would not be worth the effort or cost. Having said that, my first season the Chinese were building several bases for "research", but we all knew it was for mineral exploration.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 28 Jul 2018 23:45:34 No.1219029 Report

Quoted By: >>1219033

>>1219018
>>1219020
When someone is going to "mine" Antarctica, most ice will probably be melted already anyway
>>1219017
With wind shield, rail can still work with hurricane force wind, see rail projects in Saudi Arabia, Xinjiang, Shinkansen. Ice could be a problem as they aren't like snow?
And China have built rail on Tibetan Plateau which aren't stable soil although they are still very far cry from what you would expect from building on ice

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 00:17:33 No.1219033 Report

Quoted By: >>1219036

>>1219029
As long as the ice isn't too thick, the weight of an engine is sufficient to break it off the rail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 00:26:15 No.1219036 Report

Quoted By: >>1219037 >>1219042

>>1219033
Average ice thickness on Antarctica is 2km?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 00:29:13 No.1219037 Report

Quoted By: >>1219040 >>1219045

>>1219036
Average.

Even on the traverse, we had a ground penetrating radar on the lead vehicle, to keep aware of a crevasse. When we found one, we'd typically dynamite the fuck out of it, to cave it in.

The landscape in Antarctica is ever shifting. You could lay down rail on 1km thick ice, and then next year part of that rail is gone, because the ice decided it wanted to split.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 00:35:26 No.1219040 Report

Quoted By: >>1219052

>>1219037
How often would you need to resurface a road to keep it serviceable, man who is probably LARPing but who I choose to trust.

Because if you could make the road once and then use it for a whole season, that would allow for reasonable throughput.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 00:55:03 No.1219042 Report

Quoted By: >>1219045

>>1219036
I was talking about the ice on top of the rail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 01:03:47 No.1219045 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219042
>>1219037
which reply is which?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 01:36:27 No.1219052 Report

Quoted By: >>1219054 >>1219070

>>1219040
The thing to remember is that it's not really a road. It's just a set of GPS coordinates that you follow.

The closest thing to a road, is the ice "road" that leads from McMurdo and heads towards the runways. This is nothing more than compacted snow/ice, which we "groom" a few times daily, to keep it compacted and level.

IIRC, the road from McMurdo to Pegasus runway is about 18 miles from the transition (the point where the volcanic rock that McMurdo station sits on becomes what's known as "shelf ice), and we routinely end up pulling the pickup trucks and wheeled vehicles out of holes on it.

The traverse itself, and there are traverses outside of the South Pole Traverse (SPoT), is just driving across the continent. We don't really prep the trail. I mean, the first team kinda preps it for following ones, by marking hazards and such.

Sorry for the disjointed response, I'm suffering a summer cold right now. Anyways, the route we use still can change pretty quickly, and even with only 3 SPoT teams, and 2 traverses per team, it's not like it's gonna hold up with a constant convoy of vehicles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 01:54:03 No.1219054 Report

Quoted By: >>1219079

>>1219052
nibba you sending this via satellite?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 03:22:32 No.1219070 Report

Quoted By: >>1219079

>>1219052
Would >>1218789 work well in this context?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DSCN2193.jpg, 3MiB, 4000x3000

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 03:50:27 No.1219079 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219070
No.
>>1219054
No, I'm CONUS at the moment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 04:17:20 No.1219088 Report

Quoted By: >>1219208

can anyone show cool looking trains that run in crazy cold/snow areas?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 869868C3-5421-4E11-B16B-38B67A7F (...).jpg, 119KiB, 1878x828

Anonymous Sun 29 Jul 2018 16:10:40 No.1219208 Report

Quoted By: >>1219351

>>1219088
:^]

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 30 Jul 2018 02:48:09 No.1219351 Report

Quoted By:

>>1219208

Technically a multi-track drifting scene...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Aug 2018 14:57:19 No.1222020 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218782
There are ice free areas such as the Dry Valleys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMurdo_Dry_Valleys

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Aug 2018 19:07:53 No.1224651 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Aug 2018 22:02:49 No.1224744 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218797
Think of these as landships, you'd carry your mechanic and spare parts along.
Or just put enough redundancies that it's virtually incapable of breaking down unless set ablaze or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Aug 2018 20:35:58 No.1225216 Report

Quoted By:

>>1218775
blimptrain

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches

Antarctic Railway