/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1299028

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Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 21:29:45 No.1299028 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1299030 >>1299038 >>1299040 >>1299045 >>1299048 >>1299053 >>1299080 >>1299105 >>1299125 >>1299477 >>1299479 >>1299483 >>1299545 >>1302699

Realistically speaking, would it be feasible to simply bury all downtown roads in a city, so that the surface will be reserved for cyclists/pedestrians?
(not in the dumb Elon Musk way, but rather just have all major streets built over)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 21:32:04 No.1299030 Report

Quoted By: >>1299032 >>1299045 >>1299441

>>1299028
emissions make it difficult because it becomes toxic for people on the lower area but its been done at least partially. see: lower wacker drive...which isn't quite what youre describing but is generally along the same lines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 21:34:24 No.1299031 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 21:40:25 No.1299032 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299030
maybe once EVs become the norm for city driving...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 21:50:37 No.1299038 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299028
No, IF you have to bury something, might as well just build a metro. All that money to bury a road is such a waste.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 21:51:38 No.1299040 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299028
I have a better idea. Make runways on top of buildings, so you can commute in a plane.
But for poorfags there will be no alt, but walk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 22:01:34 No.1299045 Report

Quoted By:

Stop spending effort by segregating car drivers. You aren't solving the problem by moving it out of your sight. Mixing and sharing the street is the modern way.
1. Waste of money
2. Rebuilding a entire street entails redesigning all the buildings on it, and the ends of all the connecting street.
3. If frontage for loading and unloading deliveries isn't a conern, consider buses, taxis (if not cars), and access by the disabled, etc.

>>1299028
>Realistically speaking
>would it be feasible
Do you want to know whether such a thing could be built or whether this could be done?
>all downtown roads
>all major streets
That's some contradiction.
>not in the dumb Elon Musk way
The dumb Le Corbusier way? It's not much different. Could even be worse.

>>1299030
Heard the underground levels is generally a bad place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 22:09:53 No.1299048 Report

Quoted By: >>1299049

>>1299028
The best solution is to ban all personal vehicles from the city centre, and convert the city centre into a large pedestrian zone.
Service vehicles and delivery vehicles may still be able to go into the pedestrian zone, but with permission only.
The city centre would then become accessible by public transport, such as with a tram or an underground metro.

Outer areas of the city would still feature regular roads and further out of the city, park & ride facilities will allow people who still commute by car to get to a point outside of the city and complete their journey by public transport. Realistically, all traffic not needing to go to the city should not be in the city, and should go onto bypass roads and highways.

By the way, if someone wants to know what I mean by "city centre", I mean the Central Business District, (CBD). These will be the key shopping and entertainment areas in the city as well as where major offices and corporate buildings will be located.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 22:15:22 No.1299049 Report

Quoted By: >>1299052 >>1299123 >>1302666

>>1299048
>The best solution is to ban all personal vehicles from the city centre, and convert the city centre into a large pedestrian zone.
Enjoy your empty centre.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 22:26:47 No.1299052 Report

Quoted By: >>1299469

>>1299049
As an example, Glasgow Buchanon Street is an example of a large pedestrianised zone. There are other streets nearby which are also fully pedestrianised.
There is a Subway station in the street and there are no cars allowed into the area. People mostly either take the Subway, walk or cycle into the city centre.

Plenty of cities in the UK, Ireland, France, the Netherlands, Spain and Germany have large pedestrianised city centres which have become vibrant and lively locations to be in. Meanwhile, American cities have become nothing but cars and people going straight from A to B, killing aspects like streetfood, street art and street events and keeping the city centre as a gathering spot for events.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 22:31:10 No.1299053 Report

Quoted By: >>1299082

>>1299028
drainage, flooding, exhaust, ventilation, and massive amounts of power consumption...

its a nice thought and all but when you actually think for more than half a second you realize its stupid as fuck and you should feel bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 22:42:11 No.1299057 Report

Quoted By: >>1299063

Putting pedestrian/biking corridors underground, out of the weather makes sense but it has downsides as well

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 22:46:33 No.1299063 Report

Quoted By: >>1299136

>>1299057
Toronto and other Canadian cities do this, but it really only makes sense because of the severe winters which you tend to get in Canada, which makes being a pedestrian basically insane at that time of year.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 23:34:02 No.1299080 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299028
A number of urban center highways have been partially undergrounded. It can be an effective strategy for reconnecting the fabric of urban centers.

The Alaskan Way viaduct replacement tunnel in Seattle is a good example of this. And the demolition of the old viaduct will be game-changing for the Seattle waterfront in the way the Embarcadero Freeway demolition was for the San Francisco waterfront. Seattle is also considering building a platform over more of I-5 on the east side of downtown.

Oakland is talking about removing I-980 and turning into a boulevard, with the possibility of a transit center underneath.

There are a number of smaller scale projects in this area that have been done throughout the US and world.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 23:35:26 No.1299082 Report

Quoted By: >>1299085

>>1299053
The Swiss have a ton of road tunnels that are several kilometers long and it's not an issue at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 Mar 2019 23:46:55 No.1299085 Report

Quoted By: >>1299094

>>1299082
A mountain tunnel and sub-grade roads are very different

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 00:07:42 No.1299094 Report

Quoted By: >>1299102

>>1299085
Not in most ways. If you're sunken freeway is below the water table, that'd be an added challenge. But otherwise, the concerns are very similar and quite easily overcome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 00:24:29 No.1299102 Report

Quoted By: >>1299112

>>1299094
Sunken streets aren't tunnels, they're just big viaducts/bridges

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 00:34:03 No.1299105 Report

Quoted By: >>1299113

>>1299028
No. Those are public property, you can't 'buy' them. You want some shitty 'city' that bans all cars? Go build one from scratch with your own money, no public funds allowed. Even then there are Federal, State, and County laws you must abide by, you don't get to be an Autocrat or Dictator.

Also go get medicated, you're a delusional Fringie. No one would want to live in your shitty city.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 00:44:41 No.1299112 Report

Quoted By: >>1299121

>>1299102
And? What is your point here? Whether you're talking about digging tunnels or capping streets, engineering in elements to deal with egress and ventilation and waterproofing are things that have already all been solved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 00:46:01 No.1299113 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299105
>fuck using public money to improve public space
>let's throw untold billions into subsidizing highways and cars

Must hurt being so stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 01:00:39 No.1299121 Report

Quoted By: >>1299351

>>1299112
Because tunneling through a mountain isn't the same thing as building viaducts in a city

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 01:04:13 No.1299123 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299049
Its pretty good if you plan it.
Trondheim and Oslo already do this.

There is caveats:
1. There must exist some parking and public transportation option that connects it somewhere. I.e entire downtown for parking, or a bus route that isn't cancerous, or a tram, or a subway
2. If its too big, there is only trade/shop facilities on the outskirt, meaning its a office only area
3. There is going to be a parking house bordering it. Or nobody in management of corporations is even going to look towards it
4. You must be able to walk or bike from neighbor districts to this area, without it being special or tedious. If the city infrastructure is fucked in the first place, a walk only zone won't save it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 01:07:38 No.1299125 Report

Quoted By: >>1299352

>>1299028
Feasible maybe, but definitely pointless. What is the main point of roads in a city? To provide access for people and goods to buildings, ie to the very city itself. If you bury all roads you're treating them as through roads, highways going through the city, not towards the city. What's the point? Cities are usually the nucleus of activity, so roads go into the city to serve it. The roads passing by the cities are better built as bypasses outside the city.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 01:25:27 No.1299136 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299063
>tfw walked from the CBC all the way up to the coach terminal with heavy suitcases
God they hate disabled people in that goddamn place

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 15:07:30 No.1299351 Report

Quoted By: >>1299436

>>1299121
Viaduct isn't the word you were looking for there champ.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 15:09:35 No.1299352 Report

Quoted By: >>1299357

>>1299125
This is. Areal dumbass line of thinking. Capping an urban freeway doesn't mean you remove the on and off ramps. It doesn't change access. It just means than instead of a wide space where literally nothing happens except cars moving at high speed, you can have additional public open space and development.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 15:25:53 No.1299357 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299352
>having urban freeways

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 18:03:10 No.1299406 Report

Quoted By: >>1299468

I like this idea, but ventilation is too expensive. Only trains, trolleybuses and electric vehicles can be cheaply put underground.

It would be more feasible to ban private passenger vehicles in urban areas and convert road lanes to other uses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 19:44:59 No.1299436 Report

Quoted By: >>1299465

>>1299351
Yes it is

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 19:54:14 No.1299441 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299030
>reclaim city space and literally gas cagers at once
Sounds good to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 21:02:03 No.1299465 Report

Quoted By: >>1299482

>>1299436
No it isn't you stupid cunt. A viaduct is a bridge, not a capped road/tunnel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 21:03:13 No.1299468 Report

Quoted By: >>1299587

>>1299406
Ventilation is not too hard or expensive. It's been done for decades all over the world. Stop talking about things you have no knowledge of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 21:04:05 No.1299469 Report

Quoted By: >>1299508

>>1299052
>killing aspects like streetfood, street art and street events
Except there's nothing like that on Buchanan Street anyways, it's a shopping street so what good does pedestrianising the place have other than making it difficult for shops to bring in their orders?

Christopher

Christopher Sun 17 Mar 2019 21:15:01 No.1299477 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299028
this is a great idea.
I've been tempted with the idea of planting a bunch of trees in the middle of one of two redundant connecting roads that run in parallel, neither of which are friendly to bicycles. that way cagers couldn't drive on one.

Neskay99

Neskay99 Sun 17 Mar 2019 21:17:23 No.1299479 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299028
It's nice that you try to make everyone happy but the cage has to go away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 21:28:52 No.1299482 Report

Quoted By: >>1299522

>>1299465
Capped roads aren't tunnels. They're just a road under a viaduct with a few inches of soil on top. It's literally one long bridge

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 21:33:19 No.1299483 Report

Quoted By: >>1299523

>>1299028
This is a stupid answer to a non-issue. The superior solution is raised light infrastructure for light vehicles. Bike fags stop causing accidents and being a net-drain by every metric. Additionally, the real roads are covered and road safety increases by eliminating the concerns of weather conditions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 22:37:28 No.1299508 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299469
>what good does pedestrianising the place have other than making it difficult for shops to bring in their orders?
It encourages custom. Or it used to, before online shopping threw all the rules away.
(Deliveries are either by parallel streets or in the early morning.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 23:07:08 No.1299522 Report

Quoted By: >>1299530

>>1299482
NOBODY. Literally fucking NOBODY who builds or designs these caps refers to them as or identifies them as viaducts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 23:08:10 No.1299523 Report

Quoted By: >>1299542

>>1299483
This is totally irrelevant to the idea of a freeway cap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 23:21:30 No.1299530 Report

Quoted By: >>1299621

>>1299522
That's what they are though. They're not tunnels.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 Mar 2019 23:50:40 No.1299542 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299523
>what if we burried roads for cars so that bikes can be on the surface?
>that's fucking stupid, it is absurdly cheaper and easier to just have raised roads for light vehicles
See how those two things are related?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 18 Mar 2019 00:00:17 No.1299545 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299028
No. But it is possible to do it with newly built residential areas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Mar 2019 01:36:55 No.1299583 Report

Quoted By:

Just go the ancap route and sell the space above streets provided the buyer pays the construction, maintanence, and ventilation costs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Mar 2019 01:50:11 No.1299587 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299468
Make me, cunt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Mar 2019 03:29:10 No.1299621 Report

Quoted By: >>1299891

>>1299530
They are covered and below grade. That's functionally a cut and cover tunnel. No amount of your anti-reality mental gymnastics will change that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 Mar 2019 19:42:58 No.1299891 Report

Quoted By: >>1302859 >>1303842

>>1299621
It's really not though. A bridge with a little bit of soil on it isn't a tunnel.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2019 23:31:42 No.1302666 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299049
>Enjoy your empty centre.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Mar 2019 00:15:17 No.1302699 Report

Quoted By:

>>1299028
what kind of fucking delusional fringie moron are you? did you escape from a mental institution?
>even more insane than the typical fringie

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Mar 2019 01:51:31 No.1302757 Report

Quoted By:

lmao, triggered the one and only fringie poster and didnt even need to say 'cager'

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 24 Mar 2019 04:13:24 No.1302859 Report

Quoted By: >>1304010

>>1299891
It takes a special kind of stupid to go against the terminology universally agreed upon by the people that design and build these things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Mar 2019 17:30:43 No.1303842 Report

Quoted By: >>1304010

>>1299891
It's a tunnel. A cut and cover tunnel. Now stop being a faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Mar 2019 23:09:52 No.1304010 Report

Quoted By: >>1304147 >>1304171

>>1302859
>>1303842

It's two retaining walls with bridge beams spanning the gap and a thin layer of soil that wasn't originally there laid on top. That's functionally a viaduct/bridge, not a tunnel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 01:41:52 No.1304147 Report

Quoted By: >>1304158

>>1304010
That's pretty much what a cut and cover tunnel is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 01:51:59 No.1304158 Report

Quoted By:

>>1304147
At first glance, sure. But mechanically they behave differently and are disparate structures. Cut and cover tunnels can carry more weight (earth) above them than a roadway cap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 01:59:02 No.1304171 Report

Quoted By: >>1304353

>>1304010
Except the part where it's not and you're leaving out a ton of engineering and material on both sides. Keep digging that hole deeper though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 07:08:35 No.1304353 Report

Quoted By:

>>1304171
Yes it is.

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