alright this might be a complete mistake but gonna try this anyway.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1303726 I have some road ideas for DFW since it is growing. We need to focus on the Northwest and South DFW areas.
One Idea is to build a toll road from Hillsboro, TX to Venus,TX label it I-35C and resign TX-360 and the northbound portion of TX-114/121 as I-35C with the new Toll median of TX-114 at I-35W signed as I-35C. This will facilitate Waco and South traffic to DFW Airport, AT&T and Ranger's stadium, and travel to Southlake. This will increase interest in the difficult to reach town of Maypearl and Venus, TX. It will relive traffic on both I-35W and I-35E. It will help trucks get to east Fort Worth and West Dallas faster. Signs will be placed in Denton, Roanoke, and Hillsboro advising the time difference to Each end of the 35 splits so that through traffic can make the decision to go on 35C/W towards Fort Worth from Denton or 35E to Dallas from Denton. In Hillsboro an exit will be placed on bothe 35E and W for I 35C a Sign there will advise the difference in time between the 3 roads to the north end in Denton.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1303749 I-35C is essentially an extension of State Highway 360. Along with cosigning TX-114 until it reaches the junction with I-35W.
Another idea is one that will eventually happen, and that is making 114 an interstate standard Highway Northwest of it's junction with I-35W. Another existing plan highlighted in my map is the Southwest future highway State Highway 170 which at the moment is just an access road, but will have a tolled highway that will eventually cross Eagle Mountain Lake. Eventually, I think it would be a good idea to extend it to Weatherford, TX to I-20.
The Northbound Yellow from Fort Worth in my map is an idea to build a bridge Toll road over railroad tracks called the Fort Worth North Tollway. Similar to the idea of the Dallas North Tollway to facilitate the development of North Fort Worth and Western Denton. It would terminate at US-380.
The Northwest orange line out of Fort Worth is an idea to build a bridged Toll road over State Highway 199 towards Azle. Portions of TX-199 to Azle are already interstate standard, but the rest of the highway is lacking. Under the 1950's plan for Interstate Highways, TX-199 was supposed to be the Northwest X from the loop (I-820) to downtown. Only two portions of the X were originally built while the town of River Oaks protested the idea of making 199 a limited access highway. Eventually by 2012 the Southwest portion of the X, the Chisholm Trail Parkway to Cleburne was built because the land had been set aside for decades.
the Gray and Yellow on this map are Bridge and tunnel ideas that my autism came up with.
Dump your road Ideas here.
Anonymous
unpopular opinion:
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1303755 DFW has done the opposite and has grown and has about the same time between places when it had less of a population. There is still some road work going on.
I like to drive 85 Miles per Hour on TX-130 when I skip past Austin.
I think parts of I-35C should have an 80 MPH speed limit.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1303755 That's not really an unpopular opinion in planning circles though. New roads are appealing because they enable and follow real estate development and help grow the tax base which is too irresistible for many places to resist. The cost of services per capita in those places though is higher and of course poses all kinds of problems like sprawl.
Anonymous
I think more roads are fine
Anonymous
>>1303772 You know I heard an interesting concept a while back. What it boils down to is that if you need to increase capacity between two points, traffic flow is slightly better if you split the additional capacity between multiple routes rather than increasing it only on one route.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
More limited-access highways, less freeways.
>>1303755 >unpopular Not so unpopular here.
>no more roads should be built > focussed on maintaining the existing roads, and where possible and beneficial, replace existing roads with rail Maintain existing capacity. Replace existing roads with roads further out regionally, and mass transit locally. More bypass and ring roads.
>>1303772 Where, and how are what make it not fine.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1303755 Kinda agree
I'm in favor for building things like better interchanges, longer on/off ramps, basically anything that improves traffic flow also bit of a history tangent but there are a lot of old U.S. highways that got abandoned when the interstate was built and maybe it's just nostalgia talking but I would mind if they where reincorporated back in the system.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1303790 One of the problems with my I-35C idea is that TX-360 currently has a lot of traffic jams due to poor ramp design, on and off ramps meeting each other, and a bad interchange (currently being replaced) between I-30 and TX-360.
A lot of traffic jams could be alleviated by increasing the distance where possible of lanes ending, having better merging points and encouraging motorists to merge when the lane ends and not earlier.
A lot of improvements don't necessarily mean adding more lanes, sometimes simpler work can do wonders.
Anonymous
>>1303870 >A lot of improvements don't necessarily mean adding more lanes, sometimes simpler work can do wonders Couldn't agree more.
It gets really annoying at times when talking about the highway system that both sides seem to think the only solution is to add more lanes. Kinda hope it doesn't devolve into that with the thread but that's just wishful thinking.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1303912 More lanes are a superior solution. Inasmuch that you can avoid lanes ending. Merging is the primary source of traffic jams when there isn't an accident/obstruction. When NTTA did the toll lanes on TX-183 and I-820 they left a lot of lane endings and chokepoints that the tolls did not have. (Until you got to where it ends) They promoted through the preconstruction videos that there would be an extra free lane on both ways, but it never materialized, though it could easily be put in. The space is there for it. But, overall simpler work can add less stress to a roadway.
Anonymous
>>1303921 By doing *any* improvements on freeways you are further encouraging modal shift towards cars, and causing the same traffic you're trying to fix.
It's a lose-lose in the end
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1303922 Mass transit can't compete with the convenience of cars. Even in the worst traffic in DFW, the two trains we have are still considerably slower than the roads.
The only mass transit that works is Aircraft.
Other than that, you need highly dense ant mounds for humans in order for mass transit to be profitable. And even then, in those areas you 'll still see cars.
In New York city, it was profitable for Chinese to run busses and it was profitable for people to take a large conversion van and have car pools for profit. That is, until the city shut both down.
In places that are ant piles, the government is also very corrupt. New York city only gives out so many taxi medallions. These permissions to operate as a taxi cost 1 million dollars.
In Europe and Japan, they still make and drive cars.
Overall, mass transit is a meme that is inconvenient, doesn't reduce traffic, cost more than cars, and isn't faster than cars and has limited coverage.
If I were dictator of the DOT and it were up to me, I would make it legal for anyone to operate a minimally regulated taxi and bus service.
Uber and Lyft could hire school bus operators to do private bus service at a low cost.
I would privatize all government rest areas so that a concession stand could be operated under a contract that the operator maintain the lot and the restrooms.
These are things that should happen. Instead we get regulation that stifles innovation and wastes money. We get pissy fights over things.
An example: Recently the same government that operates busses in FW built a train line to the airport. Several of these stops have parking so that riders can drive to the train and then drive home. At the Airport Station, they had a regulation put in place that nobody can park there for more than 18 hours because the government agency didn't want competition to incur between the Airport's parking lot and the private long term parking lots.
Anonymous
>>1303924 >In New York city, it was profitable for Chinese to run busses and it was profitable for people to take a large conversion van and have car pools for profit. That is, until the city shut both down. Jitney services are VERY overrated. A lot of economists promote them as a "free-market alternative" to public transit, but they're really the worst of both worlds.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1303926 Most of the problem that I've seen is that most people just want to drive themselves, at their own pace, and at a time of their own choosing. But just because an idea sucks, doesn't mean that it should be eliminated. I'd love to see weirdly decorated school busses driving people everywhere on demand with a rideshare ap. I think that it would be pretty neat.
Also forgot my other bad idea: Make it legal for freight trains to have a passenger car for the hobos that want to ride, they just have to show their ID to the train engineer. And if anything bad happens, who cares it is one less hobo.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1303922 I'm arguing under the pretense that the interstate highway system isn't going anywhere so we might as well try and make them as efficient as possible.
I haven't seen any sources claiming that improving interchanges and merging points adds as much traffic volume as adding more lanes does.
Anonymous
I really fucking hate how bad the merging in cloverleaf junctions is, people just don't understand how to navigate it properly. Whenever I know one is coming up I try to get in the lane furthest away from merge lane because I know someone is not going to enter traffic at the right speed
Anonymous
>>1303924 Sounds like you want to live in Latin America friendo, licensed and unlicensed taxis on every street corner, in every city and town. A true free market paradise. Why don't you move there? Of course people can eke by a living driving a taxi 12 hours a day, every single day of the year. Exemplary social equity without the hand of government to get involved.
A quick google search of your trip shows you're a regular /pol/ poster. Why don't you go back to your containment board now.
Anonymous
>>1303924 Mass transit definitely reduces traffic. If everyone on those crowded, unreliable rush hour buses and trains decided to drive instead, traffic would be many times worse. You not appreciating how convenient this makes your resulting drive is the real meme.
Unfortunately for most of the US I do have to concede that public transit is pretty trash, all things concerned.
Anonymous
Good thread.
Anonymous
>>1303979 >peak performance >roundabouts Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1303777 I strongly believe that.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1303954 Great on space, Uturning, and going in circles if one desires.
Bad: For drunks falling down the middle, trucks picking up speed to merge, trucks having to slow down so that they don't tip over, and confusion that normies get navigating them.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1303982 >more efficient traffic flow than traffic lights Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1303954 The ONLY time cloverleafs work well is when the merging lanes are separated from the main traffic lanes by a barrier or median.
Anonymous
>>1303979 Needs more diverging diamond
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1303955 >Having one aspect of the free market means that the rest of the country is free market. Uh no, they don't even have backyards or decent foreign investment in Mexico. They even have laws restricting who can own real estate there. There's a reason people leave.
That being said, private mass transit was a thing in America. Martin Luther King Jr organized a bus boycott in order to get the private bus company to ignore the local Jim Crow laws that said that blacks had to be in the back.
We didn't have government ownership of mass transit until progressive vermin took it over. NYC's Subway started out as a private enteprise before the city took it over. In the process, the private company was building new stations, in the 1930's, but today that station has still not came online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPhC3-9mSb4 >>1303979 Not bad. I love roundabouts, especially when the road is empty. My list: 1. Roundabouts 2. 4 way stops 3. Traffic lights.
Anonymous
Was going through the history of the interstate recently, surprised that this was the preferred layout initially looked something like this as well as a majority of the system being planned as a 2 lane network instead of the normal 4+ lanes today
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1303979 That being said, there needs to be a sign on all roundabouts:
GO SLOW! ALLOW ONE CAR IN!
Anonymous
>>1303726 A HSR line connecting the cities of America (all the metropolitan areas at least). Some lines will be less speedy, and less lanes, while urban corridors will have a lot more lanes and speed. It would mostly but not at all completely follow the Interstate's routes, depends where it is after all
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1304002 I can't remember if I have ever been in one of those. I know one Texas Highway decided to eliminate intersections and instead put Michigan lefts in if you wanted to turn left. You first had to go right and then do a u turn at the Michigan left.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1304020 Ah, HSR. All the advantages of air travel at ground altitude. This meme wouldn't work in America because every little town along the way would want a station.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304023 Many of the major suburbs and micropolitan areas if they were located between two metro areas would prolly have a station after all
Anonymous
>>1304023 Same poster. Anyway, my suburb town would ideally be among the top stopovers in my state (Maryland, between Baltimore and DC)
Anonymous
>>1303924 >I would privatize all government rest areas so that a concession stand could be operated under a contract that the operator maintain the lot and the restrooms. I'm surprised no one has talked about the service area's in Japan I've heard there actually quite nice, anyone ever been to one care to share
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Michigan roads are all bad, but some are worse than others.
Anonymous
>>1304034 Yeah, they actually are pretty nice. The ones I've been to seem to focus heavily on selling souvenir shit, lots of local specialty foods and fancy wrapped boxes of cookies and shit, and sometimes unusual stuff like anime merch if there's a relevant reason. (I stopped at one one the way back from Nagoya to Tokyo and they had exclusive Love Live Sunshine merchandise because apparently the series takes place near where the rest stop was.)
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1304034 They wouldn't work in most parts of the US because Interstates have exits with restaurants and gas stations on them every few miles or less
They do have service areas on some toll roads that are contracted out but they suck ass
Anonymous
>>1303954 We should have a minimum speed for merging lanes, if you don`t reach at least 80-100 km/h, you get a fine.
Enforcement could be done via speed-traps.
Anonymous
>>1304046 never said the U.S. had to copy it just asking if anyone been to one
This is a Infrastructure general thread where allowed to talk about Infrastructure outside America
Anonymous
Does anyone but me care about the way overpasses and minor bridges and pylons look? I think they're overlooked but box girders look so much better than concrete I-beams
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1304057 I used to drive under this crazy ass thing on the way to work every day.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304075 I like oblique-angled overpasses but that thing is just plain ugly
Anonymous
>>1304058 So what exactly is the issue again?
I just posted asking a bit about infrastructure that so happens to be outside the US and that's somehow a bad thing?
I'm a bit confused.
Anonymous
>>1304079 Stop sperging out
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1303979 The great swirly whirly of our time
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1303979 That thing would make a fun little race track.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304085 OK.
But still, what is the issue in me asking about another country?
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1304033 You might have a case there, but Airlines in Europe started getting cheaper. I think that Texas is going to get HSR before anyone else. Of course it is being done privately and all the ranchers along I-45 are somewhat opposing it. It'll be a Houston to Dallas HSR. I'm not sure if it will be a daily route, but it'll have a slower travel speed than airlines, but beat them simply because it'll lack the TSA inspections.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1304043 >>1304045 Interesting
>>1304046 Yeah, let the government monopolize anything and the service will suck. Shocker there.
Anonymous
>>1304105 >Yeah, let the government monopolize anything and the service will suck. Shocker there. Good luck getting /n/ to understand that
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1304057 Looks good. I like road art. They should commission more. DFW has some stone art within the newly remodelled highways. Always a cut out scene of the local culture is depicted.
Here is i-30 in Arlington...
>>1304075 Neat.
>>1304079 Using foreign examples is an excellent way to argue. Don't listen to that clown.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1304109 lol. True. Any infrastructure discussion is going to be populated by statists unfortunately.
Sort of like Amtrak fans can't admit that trains are really for freight and that once rail companies didn't have to deal with passengers, they never missed them.
Amtrak of course was created because a law was put in place requiring rail companies to carry passengers, when all they really cared about was freight. It's almost like the government keeping horse whip and buggy manufacturers in business.
Statists just can't let go of obsolete tech.
Anonymous
>>1304115 ...what? The railroads were literally in love with passenger service in the 1800's. They lobbied extensively and successfully for infrastructure and right of ways specifically for passenger service. Hell even the US National Park system exists in the way it does because of lobbying from rail back in the day. Railroads wasn't glad to be rid of passenger service, the automobile did that for them.
Anonymous
>>1304118 That's because there was no alternative back then except horse drawn carriages
Anonymous
>>1304124 OK....still doesn't change the fact that saying RR's were never intended for passenger travel is utterly false.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304128 That's not what
>>1304115 said.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1304118 Rails got tired of passengers when cars were barely able to cross the country. By the 1950's they couldn't wait to jettison them, but couldn't. They were forced to keep them even if better alternatives were in place (Airplanes, cars, busses)
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1304128 The rail infrastructure in this country is not suitable for passenger travel. Property swamped them and they got built up so much that it is almost impossible to build new lines across considerable distances without buying up property or bulldozing infrastructure. Heavy trains are limited by the fact that they can't climb hills very well. They need perfectly near flat inclines. This is why the southern tip of Arizona and New Mexico was purchased from Mexico. They needed that expanse of land in order to build the railroad.
Anonymous
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/26/business/economy/gig-economy-lobbying.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage /n/'s theme of the week should be "let the industry do the regulating." Here you go bro, here's your free market at work. fuck workers and people though, we can just replace more equitable public transit systems with uber and lyft.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1304487 Uber and lyft aren’t jobs, hense the idea of it being a rideshare. It started as digital hitch hiking. They had government go after them because taxis regulated competitors out of business. So government went after Uber and Lyft. Put all sorts of burdensome regs on them and made all sorts of dumb arguments against them. And by the end of it, tried to turn both into fully regulated taxi service. When in reality it was an enter at your own risk digital hitch hiking. Which I believe should be allowed as an option. But, government says no, so like flophouses, we instead have bums sleeping under bridges. Honestly I am not sad about people trying to make a living off of Lyft and failing, there just isn’t that much demand for taxi services.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304104 I heard, that's good news. If these guys can do it, then it may show that private organizations hiring engineers who already mastered such feats (i.e. Japan and Shinkansen) can match and surpass state and federal funds (California's hilarious failed attempts that just got killed not too long ago)
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304006 Out in rural areas, it is still all 2 lanes in each direction.
Anonymous
What is the point of this design?
Anonymous
>>1304866 (mostly) freeflowing traffic with as little tram conflict as possible? Love that mini tram roundabout though.
Anonymous
>>1304866 I assume the point is not annexing those houses. Looks like rich people might live there.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304866 Nothing special, just the road bending around the tram turning loop / roundabout. This maximizes queue storage on the crossing roads.
>>1304929 >freeflowing Alright time to settle this since we are in an appropriate general: "Uninterrupted" is the word you are looking for.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304930 This minimizes the number of arms crossed.
Nothing to do with what those houses are. It's equally obstructive as the park to the west, and school to the east protruding out of the grassland.
Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
besides corporate sponsorship like pic related how can we work together in a decentralized manner to build i/n/frastructure without greedy statist pigus?
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1304004 Private mass transit also exists in Latin America, dumbass. Why don't you come one of these days and try the basic and redlagged free market buses you love so much? I'm sure you'll love how missing one of them means waiting 20 minutes for the next one, the exciting roller coaster ride for an adrenaline infused commute and the ever increasing fare hikes. But hey, at least the right-wing government isn't getting their libtard hards on it.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1305213 I love how in order to imagine something’s existence, you have to take the rest of the surrounding circumstance for it to happen. You can miss public sector monopolised mass transit here and be out for hours, much less 20 minutes. Also reminder: this could only happen when the bus service had no risk of going out of business...
Privatized charter busses and tourist busses exist all the time in the us with no issue. Why not allow the private companies a legal means to operate a mass transit service?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1305187 I bet that staff wass delivered to him - on roads.
Anonymous
>>1304004 FYI, when planning is done right, infrastructure is built to anticipate (and encourage) growth because real estate prices and existing owners make building new infrastructure to meet existing demand tremendously difficult and expensive. New York City in the 1930's was nowhere near as expensive or intensively developed as it is today, it was a manufacturing city, not to mention it being in the middle of the depression.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1305274 The city taking over the subway stifled it’s growth. They also regulated the fares and didn’t allow it to adjust for inflation.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1305274 And remember, when the subway was built, urban planning wasn’t much of a thing. It was still somewhat anarchical with property rights being very well respected. Imminent domain abuse and urban planning only got worse during the Silent Generation’s leadership. It got worse during the Boomer era.
Anonymous
>>1305283 >anarchy >property rights respected Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1305165 Getting on the /sci/ and /g/ side, but ok. Better water locks. Those construction or loading machinery (including carnes) and transportation (ropeways and conveyor belts) are much ignored.
Tokyo's Tokyu Setagaya line light rail went 100% hydro and gerothermal powered this week.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1305284 Anarchy in the sense of ancap rules. Government had less of a say back then in what you could do with your property than they do now. The role of government is the monopolisation of the legal use of violence in order to enforce contracts. Property rights being respected meant that you couldn’t force someone to sell their property so that you could build your road or subway without their consent and compensation.
When the subway was built, New York City was more free than it is today.
Anonymous
>>1305253 I'm pretty sure mass transportation is absolute horse shit in America, whether it's public, private, run by Jews or chinks. Thanks for explaining what's obvious.
On the other hand, you're trying to convince us privatizing anything is better than letting the government run it, then I provide a counterexample and you just ignore it. Shadilay, kekistani bro. As much as this might surprise you, bad management can happen both with and without government intervention.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1305288 More likely with government intervention. In the private sector, bad management means failure
Anonymous
>>1303921 >More lanes are a superior solution It is absolutely not. Look up "induced demand". Texas is a great case study for where engineers have constructed more lanes only for traffic to get worse. It's not fake news or science fiction. Think about it logically. Perhaps right now many people think "I don't want to take that route, there's always traffic!". Engineers add 5 new lanes. Now you think "I can take that route, there's 5 new lanes". Multiply this repeatedly and once again, your demand exceeds capacity.
Anonymous
>>1303924 >Even in the worst traffic in DFW, the two trains we have are still considerably slower than the roads. The solution is obvious then, instead of blowing money on more lanes which won't do anything, they can improve transit. This cyclical thinking is why many states have shitty transit. Politicians see trains are crap so they're like "why invest in this shit?". If you invest in it and make it nice, people will use it.
Anonymous
>>1303979 Roundabouts yes but that design is actually very unsafe. You should not ever have a crosswalk like that so close to a highway entrance or exit ramp, especially around a curve like that where it pops up quickly.
Anonymous
>>1303995 Cloverleaves are antiquated and only work well when you have horse drawn carriages and rich old people taking leisure drives going 10 mph that can navigate curves and merges easily. In today's world they have no place.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304050 This doesn't solve anything though. What if you have someone who just merged into the lane to exit the highway and has to slow down because there's a sharp 270 degree loop ramp in front of them? Do you just floor it and run them off the road? This weaving lane is exactly why cloverleaves fail and why drivers have trouble navigating them.
Anonymous
>>1304133 The Northeast would not be as much of an economic powerhouse as it is today without rail. Rail works when planned correctly. No one is suggested trying to emulate Japan exactly in America, the country is too wide. However, many growing regions would benefit from connecting their cities with HSR and replicating the success of the NEC which actually does make quite good profits, especially the meme Acela.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1305385 >make it nice, people will use it. Still slower than jammed traffic.
The part that you are missing is that the trains can’t beat the car. And have a limited area of operation. Even in bad traffic the train is slower due to the multiple stops.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1305392 The northeast is the only place that passenger rail similar to Europe can exist. If we made our airlines less TSA induced wait fests, they’d be as fast as HSR.
Anonymous
Just strip out regulations and make it easier to build and maintain shit
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1305692 Strip out process, you can still regulate. The biggest burden is usually the group think caused by comittie’s and environmental impact studies followed by other comittie’s. There’s charts of how many steps were needed in New York to even begin process of creating any infrastructure that the trump administration talked about. Most of the complaint was not the code but simply who approved what, the appeals, the submission and response deadline. It was often arduous and complicated with numerous flow arrows. The core of rules on infrastructure building were usually not the thing holding it back. It was almost always the structure of who approves or rejects proposals.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1305383 The added lanes actually increased development. One thing to remember is that the Dfw metroplex is the 4th largest and constantly growing. Our population and economy have not been stagnant. Traffic flow has improved, but we still have a couple of spots that could use express lanes (eastern I-820 north and south, western section of 820 from I-35w) or are currently congested due to construction (to-360 at I-30). Everywhere else that had express lanes put in has seen a much better traffic flow. The back roads are still an option, but not as fast due to traffic lights vs heavy traffic.
Anonymous
>>1305744 Dallas Metropolex only have something like 6 million populations. Many modern cities around the world have 20 Millions upward
Anonymous
>>1305383 >Look up "induced demand" Meme invented by urbanist bugmen. There is only supply an demand. If demand outstrips supply, bugmen squawk "induced demand! induced demand!"
Anonymous
>>1305387 Not true. They work fine in certain situations.
>>1305392 >The Northeast would not be as much of an economic powerhouse as it is today without rail. Freight rail maybe
Anonymous
>>1305824 That's the most retarded thing I ever heard, please jump in front of a carpool lane.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1305830 >>1305824 Your just a hater that he is smarter than every planner, engineer, and anyone who has taken a single economics course.
Lmao
Anonymous
>>1304133 >>1305827 I stopped responding to your shitty fucking "arguments" days ago because you're too dense to be reasoned with and when confronted with facts blindly state the contrary.
Rail lines in the 19th century extended into every nook and hollow in Appalachia bringing urbanites to the hundreds of inns and tourist attractions in the mountains. Rail lines to move coal went as far as they could in the mountains in the coal belt. First you said the US isn't conducive to passenger rail travel, now you say, "well freight only ackshully!!!! Shut the fuck up, fucking imbecile.
Anonymous
>>1305837 >appealing to authority this hard >>1305844 >I stopped responding to your shitty fucking "arguments" days ago Not true. You're responding now
>First you said the US isn't conducive to passenger rail travel I didn't say that but it is true. Only a few areas are.
>Shut the fuck up, fucking imbecile. Nope
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1305165 pushing it but might as count since where i'm from most of the dams along the Mississippi have boat elevators
Anonymous
>>1305383 I guess we should rip out bike lanes too
>tfw talking to someone that hates all forms of transportation Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1305815 Yep and unlike some of those other metro areas, our traffic is tolerable. Ask Los Angeles how their traffic is. Or New York City.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1305824 Didn’t someone earlier say if you make rail nicer, people will use it? Wouldn’t this be an example of “induced demand”?
If making mass transit better makes more people use it, wouldn’t making roadways better also invite more users?
I don’t think that the term is wrong, I think the motives and applications of that term are simply devices to be used in favor of an anti car agenda.
The proponents of mass transit tend to be statists. The idea of individual independent travel is something they hate. Rail for example is immobile, once in it, you can dictate where people live and work. Similarly airplanes also have a bit more freedom of movement, they can go anywhere at any time pending that there is a runway. The Independent private bus also fits this concept, though consumer demand indicates that nobody likes sharing travel arrangements for more than a few hours.
But I notice, that there is always a bias against the vehicles that have the ability to go anywhere at any time, and always a favourable oppinion on vehicles that are confined to specific tech and locations (trains of all types)
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1305847 >rail is only good in specific areas A point I stated as well. But most other areas it tends to be a barrel full of burning $100 bills and wouldn’t be around if private investors built it. Also, as I pointed out, densely populated areas have done everything legislatively to prevent competition in the transit arena. New York banned for profit car pooling. Other cities would love to get people to car pool, in New York, they stopped it because they competed with taxis.
This is the real problem with the anti car agenda is that it plays into the hands of power hungry corrupt beaurocrats who don’t have our best interests at heart. And mass transit is a means to take advantage of our weakness, which is why the anti car agenda is so strong.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1305849 Texas put in some useless bike lanes that are comically dangerous in a couple of the suburbs. I guess the Obama admin gave municipalities grants or something. I honestly don’t see why they even bothered putting them in, they go nowhere.
Anonymous
>>1305824 I don't really agree with the term "induced demand" since its kinda a bad faith argument but I can see the reasoning behind it a little.
Driving away from infrastructure for a bit "induced demand" in a supply and demand scenario in the roughest sense of the word would be the same as a business encouraging the demand for more people to buy their product by finding ways to sell said product at a lower rate.
Back to highways, maybe I've been misrepresenting what most people say when they cite "induced demand", but the most reasonable(ish) train of logic that's not "Muh Roads ar bad" has been along the lines of
>Since it's not run as a business, the government has no incentives to meet the most optimal equilibrium point of supply and demand model >As such it's able to produce a supply (roads) at a artificially lowered price that would bankrupt any normal business to ensure that so long as there's any more demand even remotely available, it will bend over backwards to ensure it meet it Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1305847 I never thought of a high school junior who took an economics class as an "authority" but okay.
Anonymous
>Extend the Cottage Grove branch of the CTA Green Line >Bring back the station at University/63rd >Keep it going until it intersects with the Metra Electric train >Have a transfer with Metra trains at the 63rd and 67th Stops >Auxiliary entrance at Dorchester for the 63rd Stop >Have the Green Line assume the responsibilities of the South Chicago branch of Metra Electric
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1305918 Houston has some areas that need express lanes (US-290)
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1305911 Those digits.
Anyway, yes government uses infrastructure as a way to promote economic activity (trade). Even the founding fathers saw that promotion of trade between the state’s and prohibition against trade embargoes between the states as a reason behind the interstate commerce clause. Roads promote trade. We all benefit from their use, but I think there is plenty of room as to argue about the best way to fund their creation, maintenance, and the manner that they are constructed.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1305964 I assume that it has to be an improvement since most mass transit systems are total dogshit and barely useful. Please provide an illustration of your work.
Anonymous
>>1306015 https://i.imgur.com/67Tpsup.png Quick n Dirty shoop of what it might look like. Imgur link because the filesize is a beast.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1306049 Pretty cool. Connectors where there are none always make a system better.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1305316 >things don't fail if failure is not beneficial for you! That's why no private corporation has ever went bankrupt, right? That libtard cringe bluepilled Blockbuster died because of evil gubbimint intervention.
Praise kek, kekistani bro.
Anonymous
>>1306441 In what part of Latin America do you live in where you've never heard of Netflix?
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1306441 “In the free market, business failure is just as vital as business success. It tells you that what you are doing is wrong!”- Walter E Williams
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1306480 Some of these people are purposefully ignorant.
Anonymous
China is going to construct a new high speed rail between Sichuan and Lhasa, which will further connect to Kathmandu via another construction project. Because of the difficult terrain, the entire ~1000km long line will compose of ~80% tunnels and another ~13% bridges.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1306524 I bet they don’t have a limited access high between those two areas do they? What’s the connectivity like between those two cities?
Anonymous
>>1306536 >I bet they don’t have a limited access high between those two areas do they? They are building a new one, last time I checked
>What’s the connectivity like between those two cities? To be exact, the two end points of the planned rail line will be Ya'an, Sichuan and Lhasa, Tibet. There is a road that connect the two cities together, which isn't particular great from transportation point of view, but that's still one of the few roads that connect Tibet to the out side word which was constructed after overcoming many engineering challenges, and because the road is rather scenic so there are also many tourists who spend a number of days to drive between the two cities. And of course, the route is also a key military supply route just like all other routes into Tibet that can reinforce China's military presence in the area and defense against local rebellion or foreign military action from countries like India.
Anonymous
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Anonymous
>>1306524 Who the fuck cares, it's unlawful occupation of Tibet
>>1306567 >And of course, the route is also a key military supply route just like all other routes into Tibet that can reinforce China's military presence in the area and defense against local rebellion or foreign military action from countries like India. there it is
I can't wait for the coming global recession to fuck the CCP forever
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1306591 Evil infrastructure are still infrastructure
Anonymous
;_;
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1306756 0-walkability/10
Anonymous
There was a partial collapse of an overpass at the I-75/I-24 directional-T interchange in Chattanooga, TN... no injuries, authorities are looking to see if a vehicle might have caused it.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1306591 Personally can’t wait for China to collapse under its public debt desu
Anonymous
>>1303979 the Alberta and BC governments love this retarded kind of compound roundabout for some reason, there's another one half an hour north of me (Saanichton) that's equally inscrutable. However, mine goes one further and manages to fit a bus exchange in the centre
Anonymous
>>1306480 Are you trying to prove my point, or are you trying to imply Netflix is a corporation created by the US government?
>>1306508 Yeah but for whatever reason your quote doesn't apply to government funded companies. You gotta stop licking corporate ass and admit anything that's managed by people can fail, be it public, private or whatever. You're just as blind as the "statists" you hate so much.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1307850 Damn that bridge should have been replaced years ago!
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1307898 No, failure doesn’t happen when you can point guns at people and force them to pay for a terrible project.
Anonymous
>>1307958 >he doesn’t know about the CCCP Anonymous
>>1307956 Yeah it was built in 1959 when that part of the interstate was. Left hand entrance/exits and sharp curves. Semis flip there a few times a year.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1307974 Yes, eventually you run out of other people’s money. But it takes forever
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1308014 That shit sucks. Dfw has pretty much redone their interstates due to the toll roads being constructed as a private option.
Anonymous
>>1308041 Yeah like I said before people really wanted this interchanged rebuilt 20+ years ago. TDOT will probably make it bigger but not really improve the design like they did with the Hwy 53 interchange a couple of miles up I-75.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1308052 I hope Trumps red tape cutting gets these road situations fixed. Every state and location has really dropped the ball when it comes to managing simple infrastructure like a road. They almost are always so willing to steal money from highways to fund mass transit systems that are over priced and only serve a small percentage of the population. Hopefully making it easier to build a new road, train, airport, subway, or whatever will fix this problem.
Anonymous
>>1308078 States frequently get 80% of highway expansion costs covered by the feds and then nothing for maintenance. States drop the ball on maintaining their system. If there is federal money for maintenance it goes to the areas in the worst condition which is almost an incentive to run your roads into disrepair.
All transportation in the US is subsidized and highways are no exception. The level of acceptable subsidy runs into a values discussion. Not everyone can afford a car. If you take their Transit away then they can’t work and you’re paying their welfare indefinitely. Not raising the gas tax in 25+ years is a negligent policy and a large contributor to a lack of money in the Highway Trust Fund.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1308096 Most people aren’t city dwellers, even illegal immigrants can afford a car.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1308096 You raise a great point about the funding and a lack of accountability for the states. This I agree with. Kansas has kept I-35 tolled simply because they don’t have enough people to tax in order to pay for the maintenance when most of the traffic is drive through.
Anonymous
what is the motivation behind anti-transitards?>muh tax dollars >muh property values >muh dark skins
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1305386 This. Pedestrians have no place at interchanges and multi-lane roundabouts.
>>1307891 >retarded kind of compound roundabout It's not. It's cheaper, smaller, less complex traffic-intensive.
>File: mctavish.jpg (62 KB, 700x464) Here you have multiple roads connecting with the interchange. A single circular roundabout would be a big clusterfuck and waste, only less worse with an angled pinched roundabout = dogbone interchange
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1308144 They are completly and utterly blind to the negative impact a car has on it's surrounding.
Anonymous
>>1308144 I think there's an element of rampant projection going on, as well.
>some people who like public transport want to ban cars >THEREFORE EVERYBODY WHO USES PUBLIC TRANSPORT IS MY ENEMY I mean, it's the crux of fringieposter's arguments whenever that tumour decides to show up.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1308228 I am not against mass transit, I just hate when it is a government lead initiative simply because it often costs way more than a simple road, has inconvenient operation times, has government employment practices that gives jobs to incompetent morons and pays them way more than they are worth, will often have a day that it won’t run (Sunday), and often isn’t 24/7, and often in not so dense cities, it is slower than cars.
My preference would be:
1. Alllow private bus and van rideshares to operate.
2. Let virtually anyone operate an unregulated enter at your own risk taxi service along with having a regulated official service.
3. If we just have to waste money, then I want a subsidized shinook helicopter service picking up a various heliports and delivering to the roofs of downtown.
But mostly I tend to be against rail operations since they are fixed and can only go one direction at a time. I’ve attempted to use them and it just can’t beat the convenience that a car gives on traffics worst day. It has a host of reasons, but mostly it is due to having to go out of the way to get to the train station only to have to wait for the train and then what would have been a 40 minute drive with backroads or shitty traffic on the highways take about 45 minutes in the train. The only time DFW’s rails have been useful to me has been when going to the American Airlines arena. The only people that I’ve seen riding as regulars have been those working at the hospital or in either downtown as they’ve had a convenient stop. But mostly it is an overpriced inconvenient novelty. Heck, I’ve even delivered red dye diesel to them. Had the maintenance manager see an Amtrak pass by and he said that he heard that Amtrak barely maintains their trains. It was an interesting thing to see, and I have some affinity’s for the TRE, but it is mostly a white elephant at this point.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1308144 The very idea of making cities more desirable to live in is immensely ***triggering*** to the conservative mind. That and a firm belief that no one has ever successfully used mass transit in a city in any way, and if they did, they're a gullible schmuck who fell for shlomo's master plan.
Anonymous
>>1308330 >Its inconvenient for me even though I saw all these other people using it so its obviously shit and just a novelty imagine being this retarded
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1308334 It has limited audience. You pretty much have to work in downtown or at the hospital in Irving to be able to have a use for it. The only time I found it useful was for events at the AAC simply because it was cheaper than parking. I attempted to use it to get to Love field and it was a bit of a hassle.
But the main gripe is that this thing doesn’t actually save time, and if the damn thing runs over anyone (which it has) the whole operation gets shutdown and busses show up to remove everyone.
Mass transit systems only work if the population is dense enough and you intentionally sabotage the roads. The fact that sabataging roads in order to compete tells me rail as an option is less appealing than busses. I’d hinestly rather see school busses taking people places than more rail. The stuff is a nightmare due to how much dfw’s rail lines have been built around in areas where rail does exist.
Anonymous
>>1308342 >Its inconvenient for me even though I saw all these other people using it so its obviously shit and just a novelty imagine still being this retarded
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1308362 It isn’t faster even if you live next to the station and if you have a stop that is right next to any of the stations. It’s ridership is low and has a very slim appeal. These people either don’t want to drive themselves and they don’t mind the extra amount of time that it takes to get to work. But the cars on a weekday are mostly empty. That’s the point, the city subsidizes this and its ridership appeals to very few customers. I’ve attempted to like it, ride it, and justify it. But it is a white elephant. At this point it would have been better to have busses run the same routes.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1308366 Oh, and the thing doesn’t run on Sundays. (My biggest complaint)
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1303979 I fucking hate this interchange so much. No one has any fucking clue how it works, including me, so it's always a complete shit show.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
Reply to this post or your proposed mass transit project does due to environmental impact study.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
@1309611
Anonymous
>>1308367 Probably because ridership is so low on Sundays that they'd rather not bleed money running. This is also not typical of transit systems. Most do run on Sundays. It's also a benefit, not a drawback, to have hours when the system doesn't run, as this provides time in very low ridership hours for essential maintenance to be done without impacting the commuters who provide the bulk of the income. 24/7 running is part of the reason NYC's metro is such a shitfest of breakdowns.
>>1308342 With even a half-assed system, it would save time over traffic. Atlanta's for example is terrible, but it will still get you downtown or to the airport quicker than sitting in traffic on I-285/I-75/I-85, and also means you don't have to deal with fucked city streets.
>and if the damn thing runs over anyone (which it has) No heavy rail or subway should have grade crossings anywhere near the metro area. And drivers should not be fucking retards who ignore train signals. Even with grade crossings, this is not the train's fault. Maybe if it kills enough lemmings the rest will learn?
>Mass transit systems only work... and you intentionally sabotage the roads Absolutely false, but you've already shown you're a biased cager that thinks just because it isn't useful in your specific circumstance means it cannot be useful to anyone.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1309635 Even the people that it is useful for, it is still faster in traffic to drive from station point to station point in a car. The thing is that damn slow. Believe me, I’ve tried to justify this thing. I only have two uses for it: getting to love field when I am by myself and getting to the American Airlines arena. And in both cases: it is slower than car in heavy traffic
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1309635 (Probably) Sunday when NFL and baseball could bus massive amounts of people to the stadium from train stations. Doesn’t happen because of politics
Anonymous
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1308330 >I am not against mass transit, I just hate when it is a government lead initiative simply because it often costs way more than a simple road IF you build the system right, it can at least make money back (note that transit systems are not solely designed to make a profit, especially when positive externalities such as economic development are taken into account). A huge majority of roads in the world don't recoup any money whatsoever. The "gas tax" helps but is now being understood as a failure since a) it's never enough at current levels, and b) the rise of hybrids, EVs, and cheaper fuel are actually starting to have a noticeable impact on tax revenue. The exception is toll roads but these are not everywhere. Also in urban environments there's no such thing as a simple road. Look at the BQE plans in NYC right now. It will cost literally billions of dollars to rehab a small stretch of this thing.
All that being said, it is unfortunate that metro construction in the US seems to always cost a lot compared to some other places. On that point look up that really good article by the NYT about the 2nd Avenue subway, they go into all the major points on why that thing blew it's budget by an ungodly amount.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1305849 No, bike and bus lanes can create "modal shifts" where you have people who were taking cars switch to other methods which are more efficient. I would argue inducing more cycling and transit use is a good thing. Consider how cheap it is to build a bike lane, so even if you induce usage and it hits capacity, so what? Expand the lane. It costs pennies on the dollar compared to highway construction.
Anonymous
>>1305631 >The part that you are missing is that the trains can’t beat the car Says who? It just needs to be planned right. You can make it better than cars and many cities where transit >>>>>>>>> cars prove it. Multiple stops isn't an issue if you have express trains or lines which bypass many stops. A lot of this is heavily related to stuff like zoning and density which can help/hinder transit planning. So yes there may actually be areas where the zoning is so fucked that transit is not possible yet unless the zoning is fixed.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1310445 Please show an example where this is true. New York is the only place in the US where it is possible, but in DFW, the train can’t compete.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1304075 It's supposed to symbolize a Native American basket
The overpass is part of the Metro Gold line which is has a lovely view once it separates from the freeway.
Anonymous
>>1306756 Why can't high rise buildings have pedestrian bridges connecting them?
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1310616 There is one in downtown Fort Worth like this, but it’s only 20 feet off the ground. I know japan has a highway passing through a downtown building which is cool. I like the idea.
Anonymous
>>1310598 In Australia a lot of cities underwent the same post-war sprawl as in the US but with the exception of keeping most of their passenger rail lines, so here are some examples during rush hour:
Cranbourne-Melbourne (45km) is 1hr by train, but up to 2hrs by car.
Parramatta-Sydney (25km) is 30min by train, but up to 1.5hrs by car.
The train is more consistent and runs to a timetable, and travel time by car is more unpredictable due to traffic, parking etc. And you have to remember every person on a train, bus or tram means one less car on the road. Recently, there's been large investment into extensions of existing public transport systems (Regional Rail Link, South West Rail Link, Metronet etc) and new networks (Sydney Metro, Suburban Rail Loop...) into growth corridors, because the existing roads can't handle the amount of population growth. Investing into good public transport is far more efficient than more roads, simply because of how many people it can transport.
Anonymous
I'm currently on the Manx electric railway and this thing is amazing and terrifying. 100+ years old and it's still going (don't know how)
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1310685 Old electric systems are rather simple and rudimentary, they're not all that hard to keep running if you put some love (and cash) into it.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1310640 So basically you guys don’t have a lot of good controlled access highways? I’ll have to look into that system, if it is direct without multiple stops, then that would make sense. Then comes the question, if you have to drive to the station, how often does the train come and would it be faster to just keep going towards town instead of waiting?
Part of my concern is that you’d have to sabotage the roads in order for transit to compete (in the us outside of the northeast)
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1310640 Fucking DENSE. My god how slow do people drive there?
Anonymous
>>1310616 Minneapolis and St Paul have skyways, but like
>>1310635 , they are only a couple stories up. They aren't a sidewalk replacement either, as most, if not all, close overnight.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1311031 MSP and DFW are twins. We are the only cities that have twin interstates with letter designators I-35W&E(not counting the I-69 triplets, or my potential idea to make I-35C)
Anonymous
>>1311051 You mean the I-94 triplets in 394, 494, and 694.
And really the only cities that split the same interstate in the same fashion? Neat
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1311084 Spurs and loops don’t count. But yeah we have mirrored interstates.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1311084 And I-35 is the last one to have letter designator other than I-69
Anonymous
>>1310780 In DFW, Transit was sabotaged so roads could remain supreme.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1311094 Roads>transit
Speedlets BTFO’d
Think about it... Aussies always on /pol/ with threads about how expensive houses are, show examples of million dollar homes that’d sell for $290,000 in Texas. Can’t drive 80mph. Have to wait for train. Train drives 30mph. Have to ride with Mohammed bin Chinky. Potential terrorist trap. Youth can’t get jobs. Texas builds roads, has traffic, but builds nonetheless. Has toll lanes for rich and idiots, free lanes only 10 minutes slower at worst. Still btfo’s Transit. Why? Because freedom>slavery. The train has a schedule, the car is your servant.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1311094 Honestly if I was dictator of DOT, Trinity Metro, and DART I’d privatize the busses and let gov run the stupid train. I’d put a shit ton of parking at the DFW North station and I’d run the train 7 days a week doing track maintenance at nights. I’d run busses in Lue of the train. I’d also have the busses take people from trains to AT&T for special events so that traffic could be reduced.
Anonymous
>>1310780 >>1311016 >>1311098 Australia doesn't really "sabotage" the roads per se, we just didn't build as much of them. I like to think that Australia is a model of what the US could have looked like if they weren't as car-dependent after WW2 - we still have more freeways than Europe but also a robust public transport system with trains, trams (in Melbourne) and buses.
As much as we complain about them our trains are pretty good - 3-5 minute frequency on the busier lines in peak, and 10-20min frequency offpeak, so in some places you don't need the timetable. It only drops to hourly late nights, when they're running. Most people walk or take bus/tram to the train station, but some do drive - and carparks are usually full before 7 or 8 am. Unlike the US, we have electrified double track as standard for suburban rail, so trains are reasonably fast, and frequent in both directions throughout the day. You get express services for outer suburbs too, but also stopping trains. US commuter rail like in your picture just seems hopeless desu.
We also have a lot less speeding culture as well - typically you don't have much leeway over the limit (100km/h) before you get booked. Most of the time in heavy traffic you'd never get anywhere near that, though.
Our housing problems are a different problem entirely - mostly because our economy has been built on the back of house investments for the last few decades, so property prices keep rising and nothing is really being done to combat it because it would probably pull us into a recession. Housing prices are ridiculously over-inflated at the moment but should start to lower following the election this year.
Also, isn't the real freedom the ability to choose between a car and a train, if you want to?
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1311109 >”real freedom” is the ability to choose between car and train I suppose such a terrible duopoly can also extend to real freedom being the ability to choose between a vagina and another man’s ass.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1311109 >what the US could have been Isn’t Western Australia similar to Arizona in layout and car culture? I’m thinking something like Perth. I also want to drive a road train.
Anonymous
I bring some news from Southeastern Asia Railway Infrastructures
Anonymous
>>1311016 Thats rush hour mate, where everything is stuffed and completly crappy. Half of the time you'll be standing in a traffic jam or something
Besides, 1 hour for about 30 miles of travel inna city sounds like they've activly sabotaged the rail. Seriously, Dortmund -> Duisburg is done in 40 minutes and it's 10 miles longer. You need 50 minutes to do the same trip by car while driving on the Autobahn.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1313207 God damn, fuck rails seem simple and then become more complicated when you try to make them better
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1313214 They put too many stops, have one train run at a time. Rail in DFW is retarded, there is no point in it. Just a big government barrel full of twenty dollar bills on fire.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1313214 The speed limit on cars on that route?
Anonymous
>>1311120 Australia as a whole has a massive car culture.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1313376 I want my own Holden UTE.
Which of course is known as an El Camino in the US. Not sure why they ever stopped making them here.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1313587 Get yourself a used Subaru Outback Baja
Anonymous
>>1304930 Dude, look at the buildings in top left, the age of the rails, and the URL. This is post-Communist Poland
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1314077 Thanks, now we know where it is.
Anonymous
So, why aren't more roads and rails being built elevated on pillars in areas not affected by earthquakes?
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1315515 The unfathomable wrecks that happen with elevation.
t. seen a motorcyclist laying on ground because he ran off an off ramp bridge.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1315515 in fairness, I had an idea to build a toll road elevated above a rail line from downtown Fort Worth to Northern Tarrant county. Similar to the Dallas North Tollway. But it would have to be mostly elevated due to the rail lines.
Anonymous
>>1315515 Cost quite much more than just build on the ground. Also maintenance fee
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1315525 Even in hilly terrain? The cost of leveling out terrain (mostly bedrock) for roads here (Norway) costs a fucking fortune.
Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
this exchange finna make me cuuuum
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Why can’t we have mass transit chinooks?
Anonymous
>>1311016 Why the fuck are those idiots only running a train every 60 minutes? A more solid frequency would be every 15.
And making it go faster than a pushbike would be a good idea too.
Anonymous
>>1315843 You are referred to
>>1315546 Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1316410 The government doesn’t actually try to make the thing work well. It’s also closed on Sundays.
It could be more competitive, but the desire for that is not there.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1315515 That's a bridge approach ramp.
Anonymous
>>1304050 >if we make it illegal people wont do it why are e*ros like this?
Anonymous
Anonymous
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1316641 Hi john stossel. Nice that you joined us.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1316638 In fairness, nobody in Europe had died of a heroin overdose or been shot due to legality of guns and heroin. I think...
Shit got both wrong.
Anonymous
>>1303979 >peak performance Swindon
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1319041 I actually want to drive on that.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
Expresslane masterrace!
Anonymous
>>1319226 You want to try biking it. Most entertaining and, by some margin, Swindon's greatest contribution to Western civilisation.
Anonymous
>>1316410 lamo light rail in my city has 90 min frequencies during all non-rushhour timeblocks
why? cagershits and cage mentality. Nothing better than waiting over an hour for a rail to take you seven miles.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1315520 >center transit around private cages >can't even trust cagers not to run off a giant 4 lane wide road with concrete barriers at the sides Recipe for success, I tell 'ya.
>>1315515 Seattle has one of these mainly due to the constant water features. It's 10/10, keeps the cages away from peds and doesn't destroy neighborhoods and make an impassable highway of death through the center of the city.
Personally I think we should put all cageways underground so they're out of sight and not a danger to anyone else any longer. They can suffocate to death in their own exhaust fumes.
>no more dead children >cyclists, pedestrians, and wildlife able to walk through their own neighborhoods in safety >can keep all the cages in underground cageparks, reclaim all surface streets for gardens, bikeways, and public areas Infeasible but a man can dream.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1321182 I want to drive a car or lorry through it.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1321203 Even taking it at the exact time it leaves, the car still beats the train in DFW
Anonymous
Yep, they sure don't make bridges like they used to.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1321811 I’d like to see mass transit work, but other than human ant mounds I just can’t see it working everywhere.
And with city ran mass transit being shit, I’d like to see uber and Lyft run on demand flexible school busses. Would be interesting option.
Anonymous
We should privatize all the roads, and it should be legal to price gouge.
Anonymous
>>1323445 That looks communist or socialist so it won't work in America. I pay taxes too!
t. boomer cagelet
Anonymous
>>1323450 It's the most insanely conservative policy you can conceive of, but this is exactly the response I get from every libertarian I bring it up to.
>Yeah small government, low taxes, end the Fed, my man. >Private roads? Hell naw you can't have roads without a gubermint it's here in the constitution. It's like trying to convince Soviet teenagers that we should end the breadlines and try decentralized economics.
>But that's where bread comes from, are you crazy? Anonymous
>>1323460 Using massive government intervention to make public transit economically feasible isn't a free market
Anonymous
>>1323463 but the government is taking their hands off funding the roads and letting private enterprise be completely responsible for them so isn't that entirely free market?
Anonymous
>>1323490 The government is selling public property, likely at a substantial discount if history is any guide, for the express benefit of making transit economically sustainable. Hardly a free market solution
Anonymous
>>1323492 >The government is selling public property No. In libertarian circles, the proper owner of the roads is whoever would likely have owned them if the state didn't exist: the people.
The most just policy would be to establish a "road stock market" and distribute shares to each citizen. From here, citizens are free to sell their stock to corporations on an individual basis. This benefits everyone.
I personally think it's unlikely that road companies will own all the roads. More likely, homeowners associations, business owner groups, clubs, churches, etc. (any party that is interested in property values) will own the roads, but lease the roads to road management companies.
Anonymous
>>1323604 >In libertarian circles, the proper owner of the roads is whoever would likely have owned them if the state didn't exist: the people. Doesn't matter. The public owns them now.
Anonymous
>>1323604 >homeowners associations, business owner groups, clubs, churches, etc. (any party that is interested in property values) will own the roads, but lease the roads to road management companies. That's how most of the roads in Manila work aside from the major thoroughfares like EDSA and Ortigas Avenue. Manila is basically a libertarian paradise, anyone who thinks the state should fuck off and everything should be privatized should check it out and see how great everything works.
Anonymous
>>1323605 >The public owns them now. And the people will own them afterward.
>>1323606 Dude that's amazing. Where do I start reading about Manilla's infrastructure? I'll google it when I get back from work.
Anonymous
>>1323612 No idea, I imagine Rappler has plenty of articles bitching about the gridlock and the broken everything.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1323612 >And the people will own them afterward. Good argument for not getting involved in a massive government market intervention
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
Quoted By:
>>1323445 It would be an uphill battle, but generally speaking, I like the idea.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1323614 It's sad, they had one of the premier streetcar networks of the world before WWII.
Anonymous
>>1323445 >6. Cul-de-sacs become unnecessary when every neighborhood can cheaply set up collection infrastructure and make money from thru-traffic. Have you ever lived in a... neighborhood? The point of cul de sacs is to not have noisy traffic constantly going past your quiet house. What the fuck are you even rambling about?
Anonymous
>>1323896 >The point of cul de sacs is to not have noisy traffic constantly going past your quiet house. >What the fuck are you even rambling about? Imagine that your neighborhood collects tolls from thru-traffic. These tolls can be as high as you want. $10, even $25. People will accept a little noise if they are profiting from it.
You bought shares in the neighborhood roads when you bought your house.
Once in a while there's a blockage on some main road somewhere, causing traffic to reroute through your neighborhood. This makes everyone happy. The traffic block wastes fewer people's time, and you and your neighbors see more cash. (More realistically, a neighboring road might will pay your neighborhood to take emergency traffic they can't deal with, even if they're at a loss.)
This induces homeowner's associations to remodel their neighborhoods, adding outlets. Eventually cul-de-sacs will be a thing of the past, and the roadways will never have been so efficient.
Anonymous
>>1323896 >>1324487 It goes without saying that if you want less noise, you raise the toll on thru-traffic, and if you want more profit, you lower the toll to some optimum. You can have whatever balance you desire.
Bitcoinfuelhauler !!AQmQIwSif60
>>1324489 That’d be a lot of work, I’ve seen neighborhoods oppose creating an access road simply for this very reason, but what if you got a check for putting up with such traffic? People might change their tune. The real kicker is getting residents to ensure that their cars and the neighbors cars as well as visitors don’t get tolled.
Anonymous
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>1326212 >multi day HSR sleeper service Beauty
Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1326225 I was thinking frieght rail and truck/car highway. But an HSR line could be good here.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>A green earth documentary >Talk about green coal in China
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1323445 Your idea will only create more and more roads. Which is far from being a good thing for urban development. Also what about pedestrian. No road will have sidewalk in this hypothetical situation because it will be more profitable to use all the spaces for lanes and I doubt people will actually pay to walk. Bikes will probably get charged more expensively too because they don't really go well with traffic and people hate bikers.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1308096 My town is having one of it's local roads completely redone and widened from the ground up because the 20% local match was cheaper than having to pay the entire cost of repaving it.
Anonymous
>>1310047 Ok, here's some bullshit. Massachusetts has a project to extend to commuter rail system by reactivating a previously abandoned line between Stoughton and Taunton. Part of the abandoned line goes through a swamp for a couple miles on an existing embankment. It's already there. It should be just a matter of relaying track on the embankment right?
Nope. The EIS says that to reduce environmental impact from a causeway that's already fucking there, the line has to be built on a brand new several mile long trestle. To save money (and to further reduce the environmental impact) it recommends that this trestle be single track, which kills the operating frequency. To try to salvage the operating frequency, the EIS then recommends that the whole line be electrified, doubling the cost of the project. All because the retarded EIS thinks there will be a lower environmental impact building a new mile long trestle vs using an existing causeway.
https://www.nae.usace.army.mil/Portals/74/docs/topics/SouthCoastRail/VolIV/Appendix3.2CHockomockTrestleMemo.pdf The situation has become so retarded that the state is reexamining one of the previously rejected less direct routes via the Middleborough line.
Anonymous
>>1326634 Damn! This is why mass transit is always going to be a white elephant. Even where it could work, it always gets ran by idiots who are corrupt.
Anonymous
>>1324502 >The real kicker is getting residents to ensure that their cars and the neighbors cars as well as visitors don’t get tolled. The only way this stuff would work is with the cashless/plate reading tolls. Everyone would get tolled initially but then the system sees you're a resident plate so the charge doesn't go through. Multiple issues though: the initial cost of the reading system, opposition to installation (this type of toll emits a lot of light from camera flashes), cost to maintain it, cost of the IT infrastructure to actually handle tolling people and maintain said system. Most suburb areas probably won't have cash to do this, and likely don't see enough through traffic to warrant it.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1326961 Exactly, I think it’d be too much of a shock to the system. And in a lot of ways, probably wouldn’t work all that well.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1326961 >this type of toll emits a lot of light from camera flashes Could try using an infrared camera and only use light if the IR can't get a usable image.
Anonymous
>>1326634 >>1326794 Lol, I love it when liberals talk themselves out of transit. What a shithole
Anonymous
>>1327376 The left will ruin any good idea. Mass transit only works with human ant piles, but often leftist governments will get infused with nimbys that will go against human ant mound types cities. San Francisco could have been affordable if they were allowed to make new high rise housing greater than 3 stories tall.
Anonymous
>>1303726 Is that in germany? asking for a friend.
Anonymous
>>1326634 Is it possible to reform EIS so it's actually about environmental protection? The laws are twisted so badly.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1323612 what a shitty picture
Anonymous
>>1327387 >San Francisco could have been affordable if they were allowed to make new high rise housing greater than 3 stories tall. I think you'll find that cities where they allow structures taller than that are still very expensive to live in
Anonymous
>>1327624 San Fran will value a double wide trailer at $800,000. They need to tear down and replace buildings with skyscraper houses. Hong Kong did it, and they couldn’t even allow too many cars to exist on their tiny island. San Fran just serves the interests of the property owners. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be so restrictive on building heights. San Fran’s prices are artificial and a product of government meddling.
Anonymous
>>1327859 >Hong Kong did it And Hong Kong is still one of the most expensive cities to live in on Earth
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1305827 Commuter rail swells Philadelphia , boston, nycs working population everyday pal
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1327874 That's just all the mainlanders trying to escape the shitfight up north
Anonymous
>>1327387 I know the US is backward but are nimbys actually left wing over there? Wow
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1327961 Left wingers are the biggest nimbys
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1327961 Nimbys are mostly in urban areas, urban areas are mostly left wing, so not necessarily related, just a correlation.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1327961 Nimbyism, environmentalism, and zoning boards are all products of the progressive era here. When the industrial revolution happened certain property right were diluted intentionally in the name of progress, notably water rights and the ability to sue polluters who violated your property. It would eventually lead 100 years later to the government’s bureau of land management encroaching on a rancher’s lake in order to steal the land. It’s what lead to the Oregan standoff a few years ago.
Anonymous
What is the solution that doesn't ban cars? People like having their own private bubble of transportation, so how can you make a system that allows for that but not getting completely bogged down by traffic?
Anonymous
>>1329995 Just make sure that the people who are not too obsessed about privacy use public transport or cars. Also, encourage drivers to use smaller cars.
Anonymous
>>1327539 Nah, too many skyscrapers
Anonymous
>>1330007 This has been my current thinking:
Public transport hubs with parking houses closer to commuters homes. (Ideally those parking houses would have direct connections onto a highway so most of that traffic doesn't have to use city streets to get on a highway or to the parking)
Lots to learn from Japanese kei cars.
Denser cities with better zoning so apartments can be right next to shops and offices. Single/couples really wouldn't need to live far away in a suburb with yards and play areas like families do, walkable commute tier.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1329995 Maybe society as a whole would be better if people weren't so obsessed with MUH PERSONAL BUBBLE in general, because it also extends to housing, outside activities and social interaction.
Anonymous
chinese best buy CEO !bladee.a3k
Quoted By:
>>1306591 Cry more
The route will get constructed anyway
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1330007 Build the wall and return to a homogeneous society is the only way to get back to the good days when mass transit was a trustworthy experience. Face it, as long as white flight is a thing, it won’t happen.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1330017 >having to drive somewhere so you can wait and ride. This only works at airports and other long distance trips.
Anonymous
>>1329995 Banning cars is targeting a symptom of a wider problem which is your "personal bubble" garbage ideology. It would be like trying to control bedbugs by banning getting bitten by bedbugs. Why would you assume that would work at all?
The solution is to stop subsidizing bullshit in the form of zoning laws, tax breaks, foreign policy, and all the other stuff that goes into the cager-industrial complex.
If the true cost of cagerism was reflected in the sticker price of buying, owning, and operating a personal cage, cagerism would quickly die and people would naturally resort to more sane options for personal transportation.
Anonymous
>>1330326 Nah, we’d just keep our Car’s longer
Anonymous
>>1330495 Not if you can't afford to fill it with unlimited cheap gas and not if your hundreds of miles of paved roads per half dozen people stops getting free repairs by wealth transfers out of areas that use space more efficiently
Anonymous
>>1330502 Americans are the wealthiest people in the world in terms of large populations. We’re already paying the cost of our cars. Taking the burden away from the .001% that relies solely on mass transit wouldn’t change a damn thing. Europe, Japan, and China all have a majority car and truck dependent road system. Cars are almost always preferable until you get into human ant mound territory.
Anonymous
>>1330560 >We’re already paying the cost of our cars I'm paying the cost of YOUR cars. YOU are getting free gibsmedats, courtesy of ME.
>car and truck dependent road system Nobody is advocating the total elimination of ALL roads. It's like you cagers think that just because YOU won't have a personal road paved all the way up to your personal driveway in the middle of bum fuck nowhere, heavily subsidized by taxpayers, that means that surely we won't be able to transport goods to market, or operate crucial vehicles that actually contribute something to society.
>Cars are almost always preferable Because you are fat, lazy, and have an irrational fear of seeing other humans.
Anonymous
>>1330564 Yeah, and I don’t want to fund WIC, Food Stamps, or section 8 housing, but here we are!
Anonymous
>>1330569 >trillions of dollars to support your insatiable thirst for wasting petroleum and demanding barely-used roads >a few billion dollars for food stamps Tell you what. Why don't we cut about 600 billion off the cagerism budget, and we'll see if maybe there's a few billion rattling around to make sure that the next generation of poor people don't grow up with permanent brain damage and turn into super-predators because mommy couldn't afford infant formula?
Anonymous
>>1330577 Build the wall, deport the illegals, restart Liberia society and then I’ll let myself get put into a human ant mound and ride your trains.
Anonymous
>>1330590 >illegals In other words you want to do ethnic cleansing. You want a race war. This is the mind of the cager.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1330594 You caught me: gas the bikes, race car now!
Anonymous
>>1330564 lets be real, you are almost certainly a net loss the US government.
Anonymous
>>1310598 Hong Kong. It's faster to take the train from Hong Kong Central to the border with mainland China, than to drive from Kowloon to Hong Kong Central.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1330828 But Hong Kong isn't real because I don't have a passport. Also there are non-whites there, so how can it possibly be functioning? All places look exactly like my meth-infested flyover shit hole.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1330728 It's not the 80s anymore cleetus. Cities are for wealthy, productive, civilized people. The boonies are for useless fuckups like you who will sit on their asses forever taking prescription opioids and waiting for the abandoned box factory to reopen.
You're welcome, btw.
Anonymous
>>1330828 Bing Kong is literal human ant mound. They had to restrict how many cars get on the island. Plus it’s almost ancap in its mass transit approach
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1327859 The urban renewal bureau at Hong Kong is working too slowly
Also they are just building apartments without any sort of development or urban integrity in mind
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1329995 Elon Musk's Loop
Anonymous
>>1330850 There are no such restrictions, unlike many other big Chinese cities
Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1305187 VIVA LA LIBERTAD CARAJO
Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1333361 My mistake. I thought that they used to limit how many cars came onto the island due to limited space.
Anonymous
>>1326634 They actually had decent reasons for demanding a viaduct.
>>1326794 >>1327376 >>1327572 Listen up, y'all. None of you read anything about this.
First up, the "causeway that's already there" was built by dumbasses of the 19th century, trying to cash in on the dumbass incentive structures for railroads. It was used until the 1950s when, in addition to collapsing passenger numbers from freeway subsidies, the operators realized operating a railroad on a century-old causeway of unknown construction was a bad idea.
And that's implying the causeway wasn't damaging on its own. Environmentally, causeways are generally a bad idea because they block natural water flow. Half the white cedars in the swamp died because their water cycles were interrupted, and there aren't that many white cedars left in the world. Even as a hiking trail, the causeway floods frequently because the natural course of a river runs through it.
The environmental impact study was absolutely in the right to nix putting thousands of people on a train over a long dirt pile of indeterminate construction in the middle of a fragile swamp. All the "ballooning" costs that came after that are just reality sinking in.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1339805 Nigger it's a fucking causeway, have geotechnical engineers go over it and see what work needs to be done and cut bridges or culverts into it
Anonymous
>>1303924 The problem with New York City is it's designed like ass. Most of the jobs and entertainment is located in Manhattan which ensures that everyone has to commute into that part of the city making it ultra dense during the day.
Anonymous
>>1303974 The problem with adding mass transit in the US is getting over our urban sprawl problem. We design our cities so the small urban core is very dense but the surrounding sprawl is very low density. With the majority of these areas being of such low density mass transit would receive minimal use. We also need to increase the use of mixed zoning to ensure that more people aren't forced into long commutes.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1339947 The problem with fixing that problem is that NIMBYists get butthurt and start screeching about MUH RENTS ARE TOO HIGH when someone tries to expand economic activity outside the area of Manhattan between 23rd and 55th Street
The Woodside junction in Queens, the Hub area and Yankee Stadium area in the South Bronx, LIC obviously, and downtown Brooklyn would be ideal hubs to expand commercially but right now it's just for-profit diploma mills and correctional institutions occupying those areas
Anonymous
>>1339948 >can't expand transit because too low density >can't increase density because too much traffic >can't reduce traffic by expanding transit Sorry that you burgers are plagued by strict zoning codes and the nimby menace
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>1342240 rock paper scissors
lizard spock?
