/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1329371

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Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 17:42:44 No.1329371 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1329655 >>1332591 >>1332621 >>1333228 >>1334312 >>1334333 >>1334387 >>1335327 >>1337536

ITT: post where you live that has been cucked from good transportation, especially railway. Victoria, BC
>when it was operating here it was slow, bumpy and ran maybe once a day.
>they shut it down over 8 years ago and all the lines were bought by some bogus foundation that has done literally nothing besides let it rot
>our buses are fucking shit for a decent sized city, constantly off schedule, sometimes you can just not have a bus at the scheduled time and wait an extra 20 minutes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 18:14:39 No.1329388 Report

Quoted By:

>live in a medium sized town in Germany on a high speed rail line
>not even train stopped but enough did to quickly and comfortably get into the bigger surrounding cities in half an hour and onwards from there if you needed to
>completely new high speed rail route is built a few miles away with fewer stops and less shared traffic for many billion bucks so politicians and lobbyists can go from the capital to other economic centers more quickly without relying on flying
>now only get podunk regional trains that stop at every milk bottle, now takes over an hour for the previous half hour route, same time as driving

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 18:16:10 No.1329389 Report

Quoted By: >>1329394 >>1333761

>live in a medium sized town in Germany on a high speed rail line
>not every train stops but enough did to quickly and comfortably get into the bigger surrounding cities in half an hour and onwards from there if you need to
>completely new high speed rail route is built a few miles away with fewer stops and less shared traffic for many billion bucks so politicians and lobbyists can go from the capital to other economic centers more quickly without relying on flying
>now only get podunk regional trains that stop at every milk bottle, now takes over an hour for the previous half hour route, same time as driving

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 18:21:25 No.1329394 Report

Quoted By: >>1329397

>>1329389
What, you live in Jena or something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 18:24:54 No.1329397 Report

Quoted By: >>1329436 >>1329460 >>1333761

>>1329394
You're eerily close. I'm gonna leave it at that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 19:56:30 No.1329436 Report

Quoted By:

>>1329397
Yeah... I took an ICE from Augsburg to Berlin in the Spring of 2017. I went through a number of smaller cities/larger towns throughout the East, and I'm going to say that I'm thankful that they've managed to cut out what was a 6 hour journey into a 4 hour one.
It's kinda neat to go through some of these slow lines, but on the other hand, this is supposed to be a high speed service.

It's kinda a shame that the likes of places like Jena now have just Regional Express services. Heck, regular InterCity trains could still do the job. That said, the likes of Jena Paradies was a pretty lacklustre station for ICE traffic. Just 2 platforms?

Anoɳymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO R_Stadtbahn.png, 803KiB, 3371x2232

Anoɳymous Fri 10 May 2019 20:32:56 No.1329460 Report

Quoted By: >>1329464 >>1332165

Rhein-Ruhr area was cheated out of getting one of the largest metro networks in the world by gradually converting their tram lines into subways. From the sixties to today, plans and ambitions in the system have become smaller and smaller. Today, Stadtbahn Rhein-Ruhr is a disjointed mess of light rail tunnels and tram lines on different track and loading gauges on the brink of financial collapse.
>>1329397
VDE-8 is a big deal, you know

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 20:39:31 No.1329464 Report

Quoted By: >>1329467 >>1329469

>>1329460
VDE-8 is a prestige project, and the time savings for the people benefitting from it (Berlin suits) aren't worth cutting so many people (probably hundreds of thousands in towns and cities all along the old route) off access to high speed rail. German high speed rail is increasingly moving away from the average person and becoming an elitist travel network for the elite, with ever faster travel times between ever fewer stations. If we let this continue, in a couple of decades ICEs will go at 400 kph between five cities.

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Fri 10 May 2019 20:44:07 No.1329467 Report

Quoted By:

>>1329464
I, too, prefer the anarchist grassroots approach to transport planning. Screw the rich, this should be about the common person.
What is the problem with operating an ICE-tier shuttle between a town that was taken off the network and its closest ICE station? Like Jena and... Erfurt? That would only put a few minutes on the total travel time, if it was timed well.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 800px-Karte_Verkehrsprojekte_Deu (...).png, 241KiB, 800x1047

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 20:52:16 No.1329469 Report

Quoted By: >>1329471 >>1329472 >>1329480

>>1329464
>Five cities
Too few. The cities which *will* have to have HSR connections in Germany will be:
Berlin
Munich
Nuremberg
Hamburg
Bremen
Düsseldorf
Cologne
Frankfurt a.M.
Stuttgart

That's at least 8 cities. That's before we debate places like Leipzig, Hannover, Dresden, Mannheim, Karlsruhe, Essen, Bielefeld and Augsburg.

VDE-8 was an important project. The issue isn't necessarily connecting Berlin to Munich. In fact, the stretch from Berlin to the high speed line is done on an upgraded line to Leipzig first. The name itself gives a hint: Verkehrsprojekt Deutsche Einheit. These are projects to connect the East with the West. They covered railways, Autobahnen and a waterway.

I doubt the people going from Erfurt to Leipzig are the "elite" as you say.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 20:56:34 No.1329471 Report

Quoted By: >>1329473

>>1329469
>Verkehrsprojekt Deutsche Einheit
Not that anon, but any project that talks about le uniting the country by infrastructure sounds prestige as fuck. Infrastructure should serve the need of the citizens, not some weird political ideal of sewing up the country with HSR. That's what Spain did, and it only led to their conventional railways going from ok-tier to literal 3rd world-tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:00:52 No.1329472 Report

Quoted By: >>1329481

>>1329469
The only people going from Erfurt to Leipzig on an ICE now are coming from Nuremberg or Munich and going to Berlin or vice versa, and all those people are involved with politics because there's nothing else of financial value in Berlin. The politicians have basically built this route for themselves, and have IRONICALLY made a traffic project called German Unity cut off tons of Germans from being more mobile. All those people along the old route in eastern Germany are LESS mobile now. Unity my fucking ass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:01:04 No.1329473 Report

Quoted By: >>1329475 >>1329478

>>1329471
I mean, considering that before the VDE, the only train line into Berlin from the West was a diesel line which was limited to something like 120 km/h, it makes sense for infrastructure to genuinely connect the East, which was underinvested in, and the West, which had lots of money to spare.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:02:16 No.1329475 Report

Quoted By: >>1329481

>>1329473
IT WAS CONNECTED BEFORE, WE HAD AN ICE STOP IN MY TOWN

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 800px-ICE_Network.png, 442KiB, 800x1066

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:04:39 No.1329478 Report

Quoted By: >>1329483

>>1329473
>before the VDE, the only train line into Berlin from the West was a diesel line which was limited to something like 120 km/h
neger was

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:07:03 No.1329480 Report

Quoted By: >>1329484 >>1329487

>>1329469
Oh and also, just looking at that map the whole muh deutsche einheit thing just sounds like an excuse, and that it's really about building a lot of infrastructure to Berlin. It really seems like what that other anon is saying, fast trains for the suits in the capital.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:08:15 No.1329481 Report

Quoted By: >>1329482

>>1329475
And it used to take 6 hours to get from Berlin to Munich. Heck, it takes 6 hours still to get from Berlin to Cologne or Düsseldorf.
The idea was not to make the East connect with the East, but the East with the West. I get it, you're pissed that the ICE services stopped. I don't get why you didn't get IC services as a replacement, but Jena Paradies was such a crapshoot of an ICE stop.

>>1329472
You know it still takes 6 hours to get from the Ruhr to Berlin? The first stretch of high speed line from Berlin to Lehrte is alright, 220 km/h, but after that, it just falls down to 160 km/h maximum. Going beyond Hannover is just a tiring journey overall. I took a regular IC train from Berlin to Bielefeld once, and that took about 3 hours. Yet, it takes nearly that long to get from Bielefeld to Cologne. It's insane.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:10:01 No.1329482 Report

Quoted By: >>1329487

>>1329481
It doesn't even connect the east with the west, it only connects Berlin with the west. And that's all you yourself ever talk about as well. Berlin, Berlin, Berlin. It's a fucking dump. Burn it down. Fuck you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:10:32 No.1329483 Report

Quoted By: >>1329484

>>1329478
Berlin-Lehrte was built as VDE-4
Berlin-Hamburg was built as VDE-2
Berlin-Leipzig was upgraded and later incorporated into VDE-8

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:11:18 No.1329484 Report

Quoted By: >>1329487

>>1329483
see
>>1329480

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:14:21 No.1329487 Report

Quoted By: >>1329489 >>1329514 >>1332577

>>1329480
>>1329482
>>1329484
Why do you all hate the Bundeshauptstadt?
I love it. It's such a neat city. I guess I'm biased, since I lived nearby for nearly a year and spent 2 semesters studying at the Freie Universität there.
Plus, Berlin is close to the other major Eastern cities of Leipzig and Dresden. Leipzig is about 1 hour away by train and Dresden is about 2 hours away on the EC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 21:15:40 No.1329489 Report

Quoted By:

>>1329487
Because the suits decided invading it and draining resources into it that could be better used elsewhere. It's a fucking charity case. The entire fucking city. Top to bottom.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 May 2019 22:27:09 No.1329514 Report

Quoted By:

>>1329487
It's sole purpose it to contain drunk students and to distract rich Chinese investors from the better, mid-sized cities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 May 2019 03:09:25 No.1329655 Report

Quoted By: >>1332591

>>1329371
>live in Nanaim-hole
>went to 2018 Vic train show
>almost 3 hrs by tofino bus as we had to wait for late ferry with passengers to arrive
>another 30 mins or so to Langford by transit
>round trip cost ~ $75 not including snax.

I decided to skip the show last sunday. I can partake in the November show in Vancouver for about $40 total and spend the day with only a bit longer travel time.

Man, living on the Island is to know suffering. I want my freakin train back. Hopefully the new board at the ICF won't dogfuck for 8 years like the 1st one did.

btw, have multiple generations of family who worked the E&N.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 May 2019 04:03:09 No.1332165 Report

Quoted By: >>1333203

>>1329460
It’s funny to me to hear Germany would rather have cars than trains. The caged wind in the end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 May 2019 05:05:13 No.1332577 Report

Quoted By: >>1333203

>>1329487
Bonn will always be the capital in my mind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 May 2019 06:14:11 No.1332591 Report

Quoted By:

>>1329371
>>1329655
now there's 3 of us, I used to live right next to the E&N (in Langford). I have literally raced the #4 uphill to UVic on my bike and won

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 May 2019 08:24:30 No.1332621 Report

Quoted By: >>1334463 >>1337745

>>1329371
New England north of the Mass Pike & outside 128 is a PRIME example of rail cucking.
>pre-Amtrak, trains to Burlington, Concord/Manchester, Portland/Bangor, Albany, Montréal QC, Saint John NB, Haifax NS, fucking Philly and DC, all from North Station
>Cue Penn Central bankruptcy
>Amtrak formed
>only routes retained in New England are from New York to Montréal via Burlington, Boston via Providence and Springfield, and a shitload of commuter routes into Boston and NYC
>everything in NH: gone
>everything in northwest MA: gone
>everything in ME: gone, with the sole, bizarre exception of VIA's Atlantic, travelling from Montréal to Halifax, later Saint John, via Sherbrooke and fucking upstate Maine. Completely ignored Bangor, and went through Mattawamkeag, but it was something.
>a few years later: gone
>2001
>Downeaster established to connect Portland at a new station at Thomson's Point, rather than the original Union Station
>sucks that they couldn't restore the station, but whatever, it's a Portland-Boston link
>extended to Brunswick
>that's fucking it
>talks about extending it to Bangor, but nothing in stone yet
>talks about studies to connect Manchester & Nashua to Lowell via a commuter line, but nothing's set yet
Where did America go wrong with passenger rail?

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Sat 18 May 2019 17:50:09 No.1333203 Report

Quoted By:

>>1332165
What are you talking about?
>>1332577
Hahaha Bonn

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 May 2019 18:05:35 No.1333221 Report

Quoted By:

I live in burgerland so cagers have fucked everything over

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 18 May 2019 18:09:28 No.1333228 Report

Quoted By: >>1333704

>>1329371
>MFW my city's transport has improved

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Sun 19 May 2019 17:21:02 No.1333704 Report

Quoted By: >>1336637

>>1333228
Which city and what has improved?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 19 May 2019 18:39:57 No.1333761 Report

Quoted By: >>1334271

>>1329389
>>1329397

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Mon 20 May 2019 18:38:27 No.1334271 Report

Quoted By: >>1334289

>>1333761
This post doesn't make any sense

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 May 2019 19:03:41 No.1334289 Report

Quoted By:

>>1334271
jews

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 May 2019 19:53:56 No.1334312 Report

Quoted By:

>>1329371
Zurich and surroundings has generally excellent public transit, but it has been cucked as well in the past. There used to be a tram between Zurich and Dietikon called the Limmattal-Strassenbahn, it ran from the city limits of Zurich to Dietikon with a branch to Weiningen. Around 1930 it was cut back to Schlieren and the Weiningen branch was closed, and in 1956 it was mostly closed.
In pic related, the red part was closed by 1930 and replaced by buses, the orange part was replaced by trolleybus 31 (the thin orange line shows the rest of the western part of said line), and the pink part survived as part of tram line 2.

Yes yes very well HOWEVER now the new Limmattalbahn interurban tram project will essentially restore this line, extending it even further from Dietikon to Spreitenbach, partly following the same alignment of the old tram, but partly taking detours through the towns, since this is meant as a local line that will complement the parallel train line which is good for travelling greater distances (tickets are always valid on all transports as well).

The first phase of that project which will open later this year and extend tram line 2 from its current terminus at Farbhof to Schlieren, mostly replacing the trolleybus on that stretch. Trolleybus line 31 will be cut back to one stop west of Farbhof, where the trolleybus meets tram line 2. That means trolleybus and tram will share the alignment for one stop, so as to keep Altstetten railway station better connected (tram line 2 bypasses this station, it was supposed to be realigned but residents were opposed to that).

The Limmattalbahn proper will run from Spreitenbach (west of Dietikon) to Schlieren, then continue eastwards sharing tracks with tram line 2 until Farbhof, then follow the trolleybus alignment for a short stretch until Altstetten train station.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 May 2019 20:41:42 No.1334333 Report

Quoted By:

>>1329371
>Denver
>sprawling shithole, 40 miles south of denver is still "denver" apparently
>rtd turns 4 miles into a 90 minute commute, can't even get most places without spending 5 hours a day on a fucking bus, can't time connections for shit, just randomly 30 or 60 minutes late because they fuck up
>sprawled to absolute shit it's worse than houston, no matter what you couldn't have efficient transit here without leveling the place
>too far to walk too dangerous to bike, almost been killed multiple times here by asshole cagers
>sidewalks always in disrepair, they'll keep 3 lanes for cars but close the sidewalk making pedestrians walk a mile around it
>expensive as shit when it's basically wyoming
i miss the coast i miss the coast i miss the coast never ever ever ever move to a flyover never ever this place is hell

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO prr_electrified_territory.jpg, 703KiB, 1251x920

Anonymous Mon 20 May 2019 22:27:59 No.1334387 Report

Quoted By: >>1336631

>>1329371
>South Jersey
>use to have big electric train system
>two competing companies until they merged
>1976 was our day of reckoning
>only two lines survived
>PATCO & The Atlantic City Line

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 May 2019 00:56:29 No.1334463 Report

Quoted By: >>1334745

>>1332621
Hey, it's the other New England anon! Man, it fucking hurts to see what we lost.

We got shafted at literally every possible turn. The Penn Central destroyed most of our railroads because it was so incompetent. Bangor and Aroostook lost their entire potato cargo one year in the Penn's yards because the Penn literally forgot they were there. After that, the B and A was done for and limped along for another 20 years before bankruptcy and abandonment of half their network.

The Boston and Maine applied to join Amtrak but they'd abandoned their routes by that point a few years earlier outside of a few commuter routes in Boston. Had Amtrak formed earlier we might have saved passenger service to Portsmouth and Concord.

Then as a final 'fuck you' to Northern New England, B&M sold to fucking Gilford, who abandoned tons of the remaining viable trackage (RIP, Northern Route, Cheshire Branch, ect) that now would be really valuable for intermodal traffic. It's just so painful.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO pacific electric.jpg, 58KiB, 500x394

Anonymous Tue 21 May 2019 01:13:03 No.1334470 Report

Quoted By:

Do I even have to fucking say it? Pacific Electric was a wet dream for me
>Privately owned
>Favorable to low rise residential "streetcar suburbs"

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO portland-streetcar-lines-1920_v3 (...).jpg, 80KiB, 600x720

Anonymous Tue 21 May 2019 01:13:04 No.1334471 Report

Quoted By: >>1340417

This isn't even counting the interurbans that go further than today's WES ever dreamed of.

Why did they take it away, bros?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 May 2019 15:45:56 No.1334745 Report

Quoted By: >>1335374

>>1334463
The only ones hit worse than us in the US are Wyoming and South Dakota. Wyoming has no regularly scheduled passenger services (they're all either Overland diversions between Denver and SLC or UP steam excursions), and South Dakota has absolutely nothing. Not even tourist trains. Just freight.
It could be worse...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 22:23:36 No.1335327 Report

Quoted By: >>1337662

>>1329371
>>our buses are fucking shit for a decent sized city, constantly off schedule, sometimes you can just not have a bus at the scheduled time and wait an extra 20 minutes.
I live here and literally never have a problem taking the bus..

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 00:16:13 No.1335374 Report

Quoted By: >>1335383

>>1334745
True, they got it worse. But for an area of the country as dense as we are it's pretty inexcusable. Like, it's unacceptable that the densest states in the US have absolutely terrible rail transit because of Penn Central.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 00:35:46 No.1335383 Report

Quoted By: >>1335388 >>1336602 >>1337747

>>1335374
Why couldn't Amtrak be formed in the late 50s-early 60s in the way VIA Rail was? That would have helped with

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 00:46:01 No.1335388 Report

Quoted By: >>1335394

>>1335383
Who knows. You could say the same thing about every public transit agency in the country, if they'd been formed in the late 1940's instead of the late 1960's I'm sure a lot more streetcars would have survived. Although then again, New York took over public transit in 1940 and we still saw them abandon all streetcars and a good amount of elevated rapid transit.

I think that the only way in some alt-history narrative we avoid losing most of the railroads and streetcars in the US is if the US refuses to build the interstate highways. At least then, we'd have probably kept some of the passenger trains that as late as the 1960's were making money. And without losing the freight business to trucking, the railroads might not have collapsed and instead would have been able to start reinvesting in infrastructure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 01:10:59 No.1335394 Report

Quoted By: >>1335398 >>1335402

>>1335388
Have you heard of the YouTube channel AlternateHistoryHub? I'd love to see him do a video on that exact scenario: "What if the Interstate Highway System was never built?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 01:21:45 No.1335398 Report

Quoted By:

>>1335394
I haven't, but it's a cool thought experiment. I think that in the end we'd have seen a more fair competition between trains and highways. The interstate system was preceeded by a bunch of states making toll highways, so I think we'd have seen a much more equal fight. Rural and western states wouldn't have been able to fund interstates, so we'd probably see long-distance train travel hang on a bit longer than we did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 01:29:21 No.1335402 Report

Quoted By:

>>1335394
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/tollroads-1955.jpg

This is what we had before the interstates. As you can see, we already had a bunch of turnpikes dating back to the late 1940's that paralleled major railroad routes (New York State Thruway paralleled the New York Central main line and the Pennsylvania Turnpike paralleled the Pennsylvania Railroad's main line. The Mass Pike paralleled the New York Central's New England main line, the Maine Turnpike paralleled the Boston and Maine mainline for portion of its length, ect.)

And you can see a bunch of authorized toll roads that were never built as toll roads because the interstate highways took over their routes. So I think that even under the best circumstances we'd still see limited access highways everywhere, but we wouldn't have seen the extreme insanity that Congress inflicted on us. For one, I firmly believe that all the inner-city routes and spurs and the like wouldn't have been built or if they had they'd have been built in a way that prevented extreme suburban sprawl.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 19:59:22 No.1336602 Report

Quoted By: >>1337534

>>1335383
Via Rail is shit though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 21:52:52 No.1336631 Report

Quoted By: >>1337737

>>1334387
WHAT THE FUCK
i'm from sj. my hometown was literally connected to the line...it was possible to go all the way to nyc or philly or DC or the fucking watergap by rail... now it's impossible without a cage. FUCK WHO DID THIS
FUCK YOU BOOMERS
FUCK

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 22:16:39 No.1336637 Report

Quoted By:

>>1333704
Denver and specifically more light rail. Buses are still filled with human garbage, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 May 2019 17:58:12 No.1337534 Report

Quoted By:

>>1336602
That's beside the point. The point is CN willingly gave up its passenger services to the Canadian government in a crown corporation. I was lamenting that I wish Amtrak were formed from private railroads willingly giving up passenger services instead of going bankrupt and services being restored by the government

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 May 2019 18:03:06 No.1337536 Report

Quoted By: >>1337630

>>1329371
Hillsborough
Area
Regional
Transport

Anoɳymous

Anoɳymous Mon 27 May 2019 21:33:10 No.1337630 Report

Quoted By: >>1337677

>>1337536
Is that a real place? Looks like the map of GTA San Andreas

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 May 2019 22:38:04 No.1337662 Report

Quoted By:

>>1335327
have you tried the 4 or 11?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 May 2019 23:24:26 No.1337677 Report

Quoted By:

>>1337630
It's Tampa

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 28 May 2019 01:28:43 No.1337737 Report

Quoted By:

>>1336631
to make you even angrier. The Camden to Millville line and Atlantic city Line were electrified and MP54's ran on them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 May 2019 02:06:07 No.1337745 Report

Quoted By:

>>1332621
>Where did America go wrong with passenger rail?
If you're an American /n/erd, you should know very well that a significant class literally thinks "hurr drain r 4 gommiez!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 May 2019 02:13:15 No.1337747 Report

Quoted By:

>>1335383
But VIA Rail was formed in 1978.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 02 Jun 2019 01:05:39 No.1340417 Report

Quoted By:

>>1334471
Car companies convinced the McCarthyists that trains were more socialist than spamming the earth with parking lots

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