/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1336559

[46 / 8 / ?]

Amtrak Cascades derailment

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 18:32:14 No.1336559 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1336580 >>1337022 >>1337030 >>1337033

So it looks like the NTSB and WSDOT are trying use Talgo as the scapegoat for the 2017 DuPont derailment, when the real cause was a woefully inexperienced operator and the system that allowed him to be in control of an Amtrak train.

https://pedestrianobservations.com/2019/05/23/the-ntsb-wants-american-trains-to-be-less-safe/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 19:22:20 No.1336580 Report

Quoted By: >>1336595

>>1336559
>blaming based Talgo
OH HELL NAW

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 19:46:21 No.1336595 Report

Quoted By: >>1337014

>>1336580
The NTSB thinks truck separation is to blame for the fatalities and not the 80mph impact with a concrete bridge abutment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 18:31:27 No.1337014 Report

Quoted By:

>>1336595
So they are going to make new rules that will make trains in America to become even more heavy?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IMG_4270.jpg, 404KiB, 1000x750

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 18:58:26 No.1337022 Report

Quoted By: >>1337043

>>1336559
The operator was only inexperienced in the fact that he had either only qualified on the line a few days before or wasn't even qualified on that line. I think the RFE and some other higher ups also had been distracting the driver as well. Also, the state should have straightened that segment out if they truly wanted "High speed" trains through that corridor.

pic related; it's where the train jumped the tracks or where the brakes had been applied too late to do anything, can't remember which.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 19:07:00 No.1337030 Report

Quoted By: >>1337043

>>1336559
In what magical fairy world do a massive corporation not throw a single employee to the wolves to save face?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 19:12:20 No.1337033 Report

Quoted By: >>1337043 >>1337045 >>1337895 >>1338081

>>1336559
how do you even derail a train? doesnt it just go on the rails even if you do nothing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 19:18:46 No.1337043 Report

Quoted By: >>1337048 >>1337064

>>1337022
>The operator was only inexperienced in the fact that he had either only qualified on the line a few days before or wasn't even qualified on that line.

In addition to being unfamiliar with the route, he was also unfamiliar with the locomotive he was operating. The report says he was distracted for about 30 seconds trying to figure out what an overspeed warning was and probably missed signage about the approaching 30mph curve (the warning was for the general track speed limit of 79mph, and was not related to the local 30mph zone).

>>1337030
Apart from the manufacturer of the train cars, these are all government entities (no, Amtrak doesn't count).

>>1337033
Fun fact, the Talgo cars probably would have successfully navigated the 30mph corner at 80mph if they hadn't been pulled off the track by the locomotive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 19:20:30 No.1337045 Report

Quoted By:

>>1337033
American trains are far from being that advanced

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 19:24:35 No.1337048 Report

Quoted By: >>1337052 >>1337053

>>1337043
I forgot it had a Charger on it. Yeah, being a first time user of the desktop control style on those really fucked him up, too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 19:27:54 No.1337052 Report

Quoted By: >>1337056 >>1338357

>>1337048
The conductor-in-training watching Sportcenter on his phone instead of being a second set of eyes didn't do him any favors either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 19:28:03 No.1337053 Report

Quoted By: >>1337056

>>1337048
sounds like they should have put someone else there with him on the first day/days so he could learn how the thing works.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 19:31:03 No.1337056 Report

Quoted By:

>>1337052
OH SHI- really? Wow, what a fucking queer.
>>1337053
It almost seems conspiratorial for how bad the chain of events occurred. This was Amshack's version of the "Swiss Cheese Model" failure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2019 19:44:19 No.1337064 Report

Quoted By:

>>1337043
>Apart from the manufacturer of the train cars, these are all government entities (no, Amtrak doesn't count).
The government would never scapegoat anyone

>Fun fact, the Talgo cars probably would have successfully navigated the 30mph corner at 80mph if they hadn't been pulled off the track by the locomotive.
Neither fun nor a fact

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO wt.jpg, 144KiB, 1024x768

Anonymous Tue 28 May 2019 06:27:56 No.1337864 Report

Quoted By: >>1337966 >>1338421 >>1338676

WSDOT sounds like they want to replace the Series VI sets quickly, but I can't imagine that any rolling stock they can get on short notice would meet current FRA standards either. There are two Series VIII trainsets in storage at Beech Grove, but that would only fill half of Washington's needs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 May 2019 08:38:33 No.1337895 Report

Quoted By:

>>1337033
stain on the rails is communisms son sometimes you gotta derail if y ou wanna get the job done yep

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 May 2019 12:47:59 No.1337966 Report

Quoted By:

>>1337864
What do they call that? The "Red Rocket"?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO BN-WS778_3kZ2v_M_20171222100000.jpg, 298KiB, 1280x852

Anonymous Tue 28 May 2019 18:58:25 No.1338081 Report

Quoted By: >>1338676

>>1337033
Trains are really tall and narrow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 01:11:07 No.1338276 Report

Quoted By: >>1338362

>The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the Amtrak 501 derailment was Central Puget Sound Regional Transit Authority’s failure to provide an effective mitigation for the hazardous curve without positive train control in place, which allowed the Amtrak engineer to enter the 30-mph curve at too high of a speed due to his inadequate training on the territory and inadequate training on the newer equipment. Contributing to the accident was the Washington State Department of Transportation’s decision to start revenue service without being assured that safety certification and verification had been completed to the level determined in the preliminary hazard assessment. Contributing to the severity of the accident was the Federal Railroad Administration’s decision to permit railcars that did not meet regulatory strength requirements to be used in revenue passenger service, resulting in (1) the loss of survivable space and (2) the failed articulated railcar-to railcar connections that enabled secondary collisions with the surrounding environment causing severe damage to railcar-body structures which then failed to provide occupant protection resulting in passenger ejections, injuries, and fatalities.
Next time don't believe some fucking media dumbasses trying to strawman the based NTSB faggots

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 02:36:07 No.1338357 Report

Quoted By: >>1338358 >>1338419

>>1337052
That's against 2.21 and Amtrak engines have two engineers in the cab.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 02:40:18 No.1338358 Report

Quoted By: >>1338359

>>1338357
As in 49 CFR Part221?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 02:46:58 No.1338359 Report

Quoted By:

>>1338358
Gcor rule 2.21

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 02:52:38 No.1338362 Report

Quoted By: >>1338368 >>1338369 >>1338370

>>1338276
The NTSB's finding with respect to crew performance and safety culture are excellent, but their assessment of the performance of the Talgo rolling stock is one step from horse shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 03:16:08 No.1338368 Report

Quoted By: >>1338371

>>1338362
>.The Talgo Series VI passenger railcar AMTK 7424 (8) did not provide adequate occupant protection after its articulated connections separated, resulting in complex uncontrolled movements and secondary collisions with the surrounding environment which led to damage so severe to the railcar body structure, that it caused passenger ejections.31.The failure of the articulated connections of both Talgo Series VI passenger railcarsAMTK 7422 (10) and AMTK 7504 (7), the detached rolling assembly from AMTK 7422 (10) and its secondary collision with AMTK 7504 (7) directly resulted in three fatalities and two partially ejected passengers who had been traveling in AMTK 7504 (7).32.The safety straps used for the Talgo Series VI trainset rolling assembly retention modifications were degraded due to their use in exposed outdoor conditions and were used far past their service life.33.During the grandfathering approval process the Federal Railroad Administration failed to consider the limited useful service life of the nylon straps used for the Talgo Series VI trainset rolling assembly retention modifications which had degraded and failed to improve the crashworthiness of the train. 34.The Talgo Series VI trainset is structurally vulnerable if it is involved in a high-energy derailment or collision due to its lack of crashworthiness protections and is at risk to severe and catastrophic loss of survivable space.35.The Talgo Series VI trainset designated as Amtrak train 501 was not in compliance with the terms and conditions of Federal Railroad Administration’s grandfathering agreement.36.Allowing the grandfathering provision to remain in Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations238.203(d), “Grandfathering of noncompliant equipment for use on a specified rail line or lines,” is an unnecessary risk that is not in the public interest nor consistent with railroad safety.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 03:19:05 No.1338369 Report

Quoted By: >>1338371

>>1338362
>38.The lead locomotive’s crashworthiness design and crash energy management features minimized the severity for injuries and fatalities to the train crew by performing as intended in this accident.
>39.After the Talgo trainset separated from the power cars, there was no power to the train for emergency lighting which hampered the ability of passengers to evacuate the train and the ability of the first responders to conduct rescue operations within the railcar.
>40.The lack of emergency lighting hampered the ability of passengers to evacuate the train and the ability of the first responders to conduct rescue operations within the railcar.41.The instructional signs located above the railcar door exit controls and manual release mechanisms lacked the required high performance photoluminescent material or suitable alternative that would have allowed them to be visible and read in low-light or no-light environments.
>42.The inability of the passengers to see and read the instructional signs regarding the exit controls and manual release mechanisms resulted in the inability of the passengers to use that point of egress for escape and delayed their evacuation from the train.
>43.The rotation of the train seats (1) minimized the effectiveness of compartmentalization by allowing passengers to travel greater distances within the railcar during the accident, (2) caused injury to several passengers, (3) decreased the available aisleway space for passenger egress.
>44.Existing procedures and design standards for antirotational seat locking mechanisms do not adequately protect passengers in accidents.
>45.The failure of the articulated connections defeated the compartmentalization feature of AMTK 7421 (11) and provided a pathway for passenger ejection.
sorry fucked up formating on the last one
these cars are rolling deathtraps

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 03:20:40 No.1338370 Report

Quoted By: >>1338374

>>1338362
>46.When the articulated connections failed, it resulted in a secondary collision that caused railcar AMTK 7424 (8) to roll over onto its roof and collapse its structure which dislodged the windows and allowed passengers to be ejected.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 03:20:52 No.1338371 Report

Quoted By:

>>1338368
>>1338369
Translation: not 'Murican

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 03:31:19 No.1338374 Report

Quoted By:

>>1338370
let's see a comparable accident with fewer fatalities.

protip: an amcan isn't going to do any better when it falls off a bridge at 80mph and gets hit by a semi truck

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 08:37:36 No.1338419 Report

Quoted By: >>1338421 >>1338635

>>1338357
>Amtrak engines have two engineers in the cab

I don't think that's true

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 08:56:00 No.1338421 Report

Quoted By: >>1338422

>>1338419
I know Amtrak like to have the option of having two engineers in the cab (why you get cabs that look like >>1337864) and I can see it being standard policy on long distance routes, but I don't know if it's the case on Cascades trains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 09:01:11 No.1338422 Report

Quoted By: >>1338519

>>1338421
In my experience the engineer is alone, the conductor and other crew are in the train itself

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 15:03:53 No.1338519 Report

Quoted By: >>1338554

>>1338422
For which route(s)? On the Southwest Chief I've seen engineer and fireman/conductor in the cab.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 16:11:59 No.1338554 Report

Quoted By: >>1338573

>>1338519
California Zephyr. I can't imagine they'd willingly pay for another crewman in the cab. A fireman is just a trainee engineer and the conductor should be back with the pax. Not saying it doesn't happen, it just doesn't make sense

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 16:37:30 No.1338573 Report

Quoted By:

>>1338554
Hmm, It's possible the Southwest Chief just has the fireman from Trinidad, CO to Belen, NM on account of the CTC on that route. Also, semaphores. Of course that's just my conjecture.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 18:25:19 No.1338635 Report

Quoted By:

>>1338419
Some of their trains do have them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 19:51:14 No.1338676 Report

Quoted By: >>1338682 >>1338737

>>1337864
>>1338081

Amtrak honestly just needs to have Talgo supply the locomotives.

Having Genesis', Chargers, F59PHs and F40s hauling the Cascades looks just fucking hideous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 19:56:31 No.1338682 Report

Quoted By:

>>1338676
They are about to replace the Talgos, so it won't matter.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 392-31529v0_20121022.jpg, 220KiB, 1024x768

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 22:23:44 No.1338737 Report

Quoted By: >>1338750

>>1338676
Americans don't deserve Talgas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 22:56:18 No.1338750 Report

Quoted By: >>1338800

>>1338737
jfc what loco is that?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 6897256555_f15f9fb507_b.jpg, 576KiB, 1024x668

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 23:53:40 No.1338769 Report

Quoted By: >>1338772 >>1338833

Question for Americans, how come all your trains are loco hauled?
Here in Bongland the vast majority of trains are DMU/EMU like pic related.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 29 May 2019 23:58:59 No.1338772 Report

Quoted By: >>1338780

>>1338769
we have DMUs and EMUs mainly on suburban networks on the East Coast, see Metro-North and the LIRR. Bong trains also don't have to traverse large sections of uninhabited country between stops, and I don't think DMUs are suitable for that purpose

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 153370.jpg, 499KiB, 1024x642

Anonymous Thu 30 May 2019 00:14:35 No.1338780 Report

Quoted By: >>1338837

>>1338772
>Bong trains also don't have to traverse large sections of uninhabited country between stops
What do you mean by this?
>I don't think DMUs are suitable for that purpose
How so? DMUs are used here from stuff that spans the whole country (13hrs20mins total on a 125mph DMU) to rural 1/2 coach stuff like pic related.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 30 May 2019 01:19:23 No.1338800 Report

Quoted By:

>>1338750
RENFE Class 354, an actual Talgo locomotive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 30 May 2019 02:32:53 No.1338833 Report

Quoted By:

>>1338769
Because nearly all our trains carry freight

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 30 May 2019 02:36:31 No.1338837 Report

Quoted By:

>>1338780
>diesel multiple unit
>1 car
oh ok

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO th.jpg, 35KiB, 474x266

Anonymous Thu 30 May 2019 23:17:20 No.1339280 Report

Quoted By:

How come they didn't use the original talgo power? Maybe it wouldn't of derailed then?
Pic related

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches

Amtrak Cascades derailment