/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1476535

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Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 20:10:19 No.1476535 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1476552 >>1476609 >>1476629 >>1476729 >>1476809 >>1476953 >>1476970 >>1476996 >>1477013

How did air travel completely wipe out the existence of ocean liners? Why couldn't they coexist?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 20:38:37 No.1476546 Report

Quoted By:

Cheaper and faster.
Postwar immigration from Europe across the Atlantic (which had been a major source of revenue and traffic) dwindled.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 20:48:37 No.1476552 Report

Quoted By: >>1476563 >>1476635 >>1476733 >>1476809

>>1476535
The Steamship Lobby was a powerful political force in deciding american immigration policy but with immigration heavily curbed in 1924. It is true many ships could survive this, but it marked the declined of the ocean liner. The death blow came when the first commercial trans Atlantic flights starting in 1939 and liners went the way of the dodo. Planes are primarily much cheaper, much much faster than ships. There is literary no reason beside risk, which was quickly mitigated with the rapid improvement of technology in WW2, to not use a plane.

Why couldn't they coexist?
In sense they do, but the relative strengths of these ships compared to plains, leaves them in a position of only transferring large volumes of cargo. which is something that at its peak, with numerous of larger, transporting more cargo than ever before.

thread over.

What do you guys think of the various wack-jobs trying to bring back cargo schooners?
Its interesting subject to me, though i think its commercial success will be very limited at best. They are surprising not labor insensitive with the requirement for crew being a Captain, cook and one man per mask.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 21:30:01 No.1476563 Report

Quoted By: >>1476584 >>1476733

>>1476552
would be pretty cool to see a modern large scale schooner. Theres that one rendering of whith the chuncky sails, but idk how they would really look.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 22:20:44 No.1476584 Report

Quoted By: >>1476585 >>1476623 >>1476733

>>1476563
The proposals for modern sailing vessels are goofy but I would imagine they would look like this monster. I remember see a design roughly based on this but the guy could not find investors, so it was dead in the water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 22:25:29 No.1476585 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476584
That's the Wyoming Btw, 450 ft long, crew of 14. Pretty impressive but too big for a wooden vessel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 22:53:28 No.1476609 Report

Quoted By: >>1477061

>>1476535
I don't get the point of these, cruise ships or yachts. What's the point of traveling on a flat boring ocean at 50 km/h? I'd rather enjoy the destination vs taking 3 weeks to get there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 23:20:03 No.1476623 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476584
Imagine something like that, but as a hydrofoil and used as a cargo-ship.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 23:37:19 No.1476627 Report

Quoted By: >>1476637 >>1476638 >>1476870

Ocean liners became cruise ships and cargo ships, duh.

The real question is why we still don't have cruise BLIMPS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Apr 2020 23:42:26 No.1476629 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476535
Two weeks to cross the Atlantic by boat, one day by air.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 00:09:31 No.1476635 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476552
Sailing could only work for cargo that isn't time sensitive and durable. Which rules out food, energy, and cars.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 00:18:47 No.1476637 Report

Quoted By: >>1476657

>>1476627
hydrogen is cheap and abundant, helium is not. I'm convinced hydrogen as a lifting gas could be designed/engineered safe, but the perception of it makes it too risky for any business to r&d it

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 00:19:08 No.1476638 Report

Quoted By: >>1476657 >>1476870

>>1476627
>The real question is why we still don't have cruise BLIMPS.
bad image

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 01:40:32 No.1476657 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476637
>>1476638
And? We still have cruise ships.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 05:37:04 No.1476729 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476535
Obviously planes are faster, but they're also more fuel efficient per passenger and have a lower crew/passenger ratio.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 05:52:02 No.1476733 Report

Quoted By: >>1476964 >>1476975

>>1476552
>>1476563
>>1476584
Sailcargo Inc is building a three master schooner brig. Their concept is zero-carbon sustainable goods from Costa Rica to the west coast. Probably one of the few runs I could see being viable, funded by California bleeding hearts. It's an interesting project, I had a similar idea years ago when I was still idealistic. The Picton Castle, while primarily a training and school ship, will purchase and transport cargo on her world travels to sell/auction off when she gets back home, mainly to help fund ongoing operations.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 09:04:16 No.1476809 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476535
>Why couldn't they coexist?

Cheap airlines basically killed an entire customer base for the ocean liner industry, steerage. Instead of spending 4-5 days on an passenger ship, immigrants and people on cheap business trips could take the same journey in 8-10 hours at comparable if not cheaper prices (not to mention no need for spare clothes, paying for meals and the like). That basically only left the wealthy and those looking for a vacation as their only real remaining customer base, hence the rise of cruise lines.

Not to mention as >>1476552 mentioned, the ocean liner industry had already taken a massive hit when the National Origins Act of 1924 was passed, curtailing immigration, even more so when the US became Ground Zero for the Great Depression. The two leading British companies, White Star and Cunard were on the verge of insolvency and had to be merged in the 1930s to prevent their collapse.

There was a brief boost in demand following the end of WWII as survivors of the Holocaust and the general absolute dumpsterfire Europe was in 1945 began moving abroad, but then the Cold War set in and Western Europe experienced an economic ressinance as a result of the Marshall Plan (the Eastern European market on the other hand was firmly locked behind the Iron Curtain) and the largest market for ocean liners (Europe-to-the-United States) largely whittled away, those few immigrants who did come generally preferred to travel by air by the time of the 1960s.

tl;dr we have three main causes

-Rise of rabid xenophobia in the United States that led to extreme restrictions on immigration that were not repealed until 1965
-Western Europe becoming rich again following WWII (to the point where they now have a higher standard of living than the United States in many respects) and Eastern Europe being effectively closed off to immigration entirely
-Rise of the Airline Industry

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 13:05:47 No.1476870 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476627
For a time, Zeppelins and airships were the answer to transatlantic air travel. Heavier-than-air craft weren't quite equipped for long-distance travel yet, and planes that were still couldn't fly nonstop. Like ocean liners, airships could cross the ocean nonstop, in some cases faster than a ship could.

Problem is: weight limits put restrictions on payload and amenities, so you could only carry so many people at a time - in close-quarters accommodations comparable to third or cabin class on any given steamship. Travel by airship was expensive, too: about $7000 American by modern estimates. And of course, >>1476638

Planes eventually got better, faster, and cheaper, effectively killing the ocean liner and dashing any further prospects of the airship. Would have been interesting to see how airship travel might have developed, if given the chance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 18:41:22 No.1476953 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476535
Air travel can be done from literally everywhere, whereas ocean travel can only be done on coastline cities. There's also the issue that it can take weeks to get there, necessitating things to do, which drives up costs as you stay in a floating hotel for weeks. The end result is that air travel reigns supreme while ocean travel (cruises) remains a novelty for the wealthy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 20:58:45 No.1476964 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476733
>small deck hatches
>no ventilation
>muh buzzwords
>square-rigged
That's you know it is LARP. But seriously there are a couple programs where you can pay to be part of a crew on a tall ship. The one that take some token cargo in hold, from what I have seen things like chocolate or rum, do so because they have some short and easy route because of geographer and wind. Like you said these are a afterthought and are used to support ongoing operations. Most of the cargo sailing ship companies have a single ship have seen that operate there and back routes. There is a certain two faced BS as to the public and investors they say of it’s the future cargo shipping but in reality you find their main income is for those looking for some adventure and the exercises paying to work their vessel.

I think a ship that where to be primarily a cargo ship, must be a schooner because of low crew requirement. Secondly, it must have the ability to hold shipping containers, even if in limited number.

BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2

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BaconRider !yuA7eZE8l2 Fri 24 Apr 2020 21:31:52 No.1476970 Report

Quoted By: >>1477001 >>1477014

>>1476535
lackofreedoms,,,rules,,,,mafia profits.,
,,,,id like tosee,,,cargo ships reperposed,,adjuncted,,,toallow personal containers.,
,,solarpower standalone,,or ship tie services.,,soon there will be pieshops,,massage!,
,iwanthe starboardside,,,lowon theship,,,fishing pole.,
,,,then someone spills overthedge,,,lawyers get involved,,,fun,,freedoms,,,,,gone.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 21:56:12 No.1476975 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476733
>zero-carbon
We were there. Once.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 22:43:21 No.1476996 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476535
Nobody gave a shit when faster boats were invented.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 22:59:21 No.1477001 Report

Quoted By: >>1477014 >>1477016

>>1476970
You okay, man?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 23:35:15 No.1477013 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476535
Efficiency.
A crate doesn't care if it's travelling at 5kn or 500kn.
With passengers, time is money. You can't sit in a chair and eat peanuts for three weeks. Both because there's an opportunity cost to taking three weeks out of your life and because you'd probably die. Feeding and housing people for many days is expensive.
Cruise ships make it work because the passengers are effectively agreeing to spend the trip locked in a casino with an overpriced bar staffed by third-world servants.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 23:35:29 No.1477014 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476970
>>1477001
He the Vermi/n/
Vermi/n/ post from basement
Listen to him, for Vermi/n/ speak truth

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Apr 2020 23:38:14 No.1477016 Report

Quoted By:

>>1477001
No, he probably is inbred, psychotic, gay and has jewish genes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 00:43:59 No.1477061 Report

Quoted By:

>>1476609
Liners are gone. Their market was eaten by airlines.
For the other two, the value lies in being able to go along the water in scenic locations; the journey is part of the holiday instead of being something to be just endured. In some parts of the world, that's by far the best way to see it.

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