/n/ - Transportation » Thread #1477470

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Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 17:11:39 No.1477470 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1479953 >>1480376 >>1480425

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2020/04/25/boeing-embraer-deal-collapses/#7b920954247f

RIP Boeing
RIP Embraer

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 17:25:09 No.1477482 Report

Quoted By:

thanks for checking the catalog

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1578682703124.png, 117KiB, 500x584

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 18:12:42 No.1477509 Report

Quoted By: >>1477516

>because changing your business model to depend on churning out bell-and-whistle upgrades to 50 year old airframes and not new cutting-edge designs that customers want couldn't possibly backfire

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 18:36:56 No.1477516 Report

Quoted By:

>>1477509
It's too big to fail and the government floods it with gibs from the military. It also doesn't pay too much taxes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 18:45:48 No.1477518 Report

Quoted By: >>1477533 >>1477694 >>1477778

>Embraer had less and less profits in teh last 5 years
>E2 Jets haven't reached its estimated sales even before Corona

Yeah they're fucked, three things are gonna happen, either they just go bankrupt and die, gets bought by the Chinese or Boeing tried to buy them again for 1/5 of it's current price in 2021/2022.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 19:41:05 No.1477533 Report

Quoted By: >>1477536

>>1477518
Also Mitsubishi will become their competitor soon and Bombardier is an existing direct rival.
Their products may compete also with less costly solutions from De Havilland Canada and ATR depending on the use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 19:50:19 No.1477536 Report

Quoted By: >>1477546 >>1477779

>>1477533
Mitsubishi was shitting the bed for years now and Russia it's just laughable.
Now that Airbus is selling that CSeries rebadged as A220 and COMAC swallowing the Asian market, they don't have much options outside the American market.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 20:19:59 No.1477546 Report

Quoted By: >>1477547

>>1477536
There is the remote possibility of disruptive technologies being used. This, as the name implies, would turn the market upside-down. Brazilians are extremely ritualistic, stagnant and dumb, so they would get even more screwed in this scenario.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 20:25:20 No.1477547 Report

Quoted By: >>1477605

>>1477546
>There is the remote possibility of disruptive technologies being used.

Explain further, i'm dumb too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 22:50:12 No.1477605 Report

Quoted By: >>1477621 >>1479968

>>1477547
Fuel cells and hybrid aircraft. Also different types of aircraft for other uses (something like the current air taxi craziness, but real).
Also composite materials, manufacturing methods, simulation and design software, software technology... are evolving so the market for anything that flies could look completely different from what you see now. But this isn't certain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 23:10:28 No.1477621 Report

Quoted By: >>1477637

>>1477605
Isn't Embraer working on a hybrid executive jet?
I remember a thread about that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 23:25:22 No.1477637 Report

Quoted By: >>1477641

>>1477621
I could only find this:

https://www.airway1.com/hybrid-propulsion-makes-embraer-postpone-possible-new-turboprop/

A small electric concept and a contract with USAF for hybrid propulsion in military propeller airplanes.
Maybe it was a reaction to this:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers/dubai-atr-considering-new-corporate-structure-for-flexibility/126143.article

Smaller companies can change their products much faster than big bloated ones. You certainly can't expect any legitimate attempt like this ones by Boeing, for example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Apr 2020 23:36:04 No.1477641 Report

Quoted By: >>1477657

>>1477637
This one seems nice, though we prolly won't see it this decade.

https://www.aerospacetestinginternational.com/news/drones-air-taxis/embraer-and-uber-launch-air-taxi-concept.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 00:15:53 No.1477657 Report

Quoted By: >>1477658

>>1477641
This is the current normie trend but the technology to get it done doesn't exist yet in stable and mass produced technology as far as I know, only prototypes. And there are lots of vaporware in this sector.
But I got impressed by the claimed specs of this one:
>>1477512

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 00:17:01 No.1477658 Report

Quoted By:

>>1477657
Seems nice, it's the same philosophy as the Osprey, though not as murderous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 01:27:49 No.1477694 Report

Quoted By: >>1477696 >>1477698

>>1477518
Is the Brazilian Government buying the company a possibility? Also what about bailouts in Brazil?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 01:29:00 No.1477696 Report

Quoted By: >>1477698 >>1479849

>>1477694
>poor and corrupt govt
>bailouts

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 01:34:59 No.1477698 Report

Quoted By: >>1477704

>>1477694
Only the commercial business was valued at about 5 billion near the time Boeing tried to buy it. It could buy it back, but this would certainly end in a terrible situation (again).

>>1477696
Contractors and shitty state companies earn infinite bailouts here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 02:04:26 No.1477704 Report

Quoted By:

>>1477698
I really doubt they would do it for Embraer but ok.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 07:16:22 No.1477778 Report

Quoted By:

>>1477518
>Boeing tried to buy them again for 1/5 of it's current price in 2021/2022.
Politically unlikely

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 07:17:50 No.1477779 Report

Quoted By: >>1477900

>>1477536
>A220
They're larger than RJ
>COMAC
They're worse than Russian planes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Apr 2020 16:55:42 No.1477900 Report

Quoted By: >>1478029 >>1478289

>>1477779
It's more about $$$ anon, Embraer is pisspoor compared to those two. They have a lot of money to lobby.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 01:01:19 No.1478029 Report

Quoted By: >>1478418

>>1477900
Still they are not even in the same market.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 14:55:08 No.1478231 Report

Quoted By: >>1478587

How long before A220-500LR capable of ORD-CDG?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 17:44:32 No.1478289 Report

Quoted By: >>1478418

>>1477900
If ATR or DHC migrate to modern propulsion systems, they may predate the market of E2 jets (with about the same range, speed and number of seats, but smaller costs in fuel, maintenance and purchase).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Apr 2020 22:53:02 No.1478418 Report

Quoted By: >>1478441 >>1478489

>>1478029
Yes, but in the beginning of all of this it was because Airbus had bought Bombardier, which was Embraer's #1 rival in the market.

>>1478289
I read in a magazine that Embraer had might try to develop a new prop propulsioned plane to compete with ATR sometime in the future.
Maybe they'll do it now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Apr 2020 00:08:44 No.1478441 Report

Quoted By: >>1478446

>>1478418
The efficiency for fuel cells that use hydrocarbons are way above 60% for stationary power stations and the power train that would go coupled to it is also more efficient.
No idea if the technology can be easily adapted to aircrafts.
Even fatass EVs like Porsche Taycan store small amounts of energy (79 kWh, I think you get 201 kwh out of an ICE using the 70L tank inside a Panamera and it has the same weight).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Apr 2020 00:29:12 No.1478446 Report

Quoted By:

>>1478441
I assumed a 30% efficiency for the ICE but the range is also different, about 250 miles for Taycan and 650 for Panamera.
Still the powertrain is supposed to be more efficient even without a proper transmission (it has only 2 gears on the rear).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Apr 2020 03:09:52 No.1478489 Report

Quoted By: >>1478585

>>1478418
>Yes, but in the beginning of all of this it was because Airbus had bought Bombardier, which was Embraer's #1 rival in the market.
What, they are brought by Mitsubishi

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Apr 2020 10:35:14 No.1478585 Report

Quoted By: >>1478817

>>1478489
Bombardier sold their aviation business in pieces. First, Dash 8 was sold to a private equity fund. Second, 50% of CSeries (now A220) was to Airbus. Third, CRJ (maintenance business and certain patents since the production had already been wound down) was sold to Mitsubishi. Fourth, Bombardier's remaining stake in CSeries/A220 was sold, giving Airbus 75% share and the Quebec retirement fund 25%).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Apr 2020 11:04:56 No.1478587 Report

Quoted By:

>>1478231
No A220-500 before Airbus is allowed to trigger its share options to buy out other shareholders.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Apr 2020 22:33:15 No.1478817 Report

Quoted By:

>>1478585
What you said is an oversimplification of what happened

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 01 May 2020 05:30:54 No.1479849 Report

Quoted By: >>1479973

>>1477696
youre allowing brazil's status as a shithole country to blind you to the fact that its a massive economy

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO boeing whats boeing.jpg, 139KiB, 866x1390

Anonymous Fri 01 May 2020 11:06:31 No.1479953 Report

Quoted By:

>>1477470
>oh you bribed the reps to shit on the air tanker deal?
>it would be shame if europe never accept the merge and you have to do a TIL with embraer

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 01 May 2020 11:53:21 No.1479968 Report

Quoted By: >>1479973

>>1477605
>Also composite materials, manufacturing methods, simulation and design software, software technology...
Isn't that already a thing? Airbus is investing hugely into 3D metal parts printing and generative design at least.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2017/09/first-titanium-3d-printed-part-installed-into-serial-production-.html
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2016/03/Pioneering-bionic-3D-printing.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 01 May 2020 12:12:13 No.1479973 Report

Quoted By:

>>1479849
Most of the GDP are rednecks selling commodities.

>>1479968
For small operations it is, like car accessories.
It's a disruptive technology that lets you use different materials and shapes easily, many aerospace companies have it for prototyping and high-end military grade components.

https://wordlesstech.com/airbus-unveils-3d-printed-electric-motorcycle/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 May 2020 06:41:35 No.1480376 Report

Quoted By: >>1480406

>>1477470
They make military choppers, fighter jets, and guided missiles. They'll be fine, we'll be enslaved and funding them for the rest of our lives.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 May 2020 09:21:41 No.1480406 Report

Quoted By: >>1480482

>>1480376
>they make choppers
no they just offer RR anything they made in the past 5 years are all shit that nobody but usa but in small quantities
>fighter jets
again only offering services since you know they havent made anything for the past 10 years
>PAC 3
considering that europe is making their own version that ACTUALLY has aesa radar id say in 10 years they will be obsolete on that area

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 May 2020 12:25:16 No.1480425 Report

Quoted By: >>1480471 >>1482573

>>1477470
How long before China swoops in on Embraer?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 May 2020 15:46:08 No.1480471 Report

Quoted By:

>>1480425
If you search for who bought every aviation company in the US and Europe they could, you will find your answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 May 2020 16:02:58 No.1480482 Report

Quoted By:

>>1480406
Nigga, F-15s are still being manufactured.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 May 2020 03:29:25 No.1482573 Report

Quoted By: >>1482589

>>1480425
Embraer and China already done that and the brazilians regretted that.
COMAC only exists because of Embraer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 May 2020 03:58:07 No.1482589 Report

Quoted By: >>1482717 >>1483030

>>1482573
I thought COMAC got a bunch of tech from Bombardier?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 May 2020 14:16:21 No.1482717 Report

Quoted By:

>>1482589
Embraer tried to open a manufacturing plant in China (Brazil has cheap labor too but the taxes and bureaucracy are insane), but they gave up after some manufacturing plans "leaked".

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO file.png, 2MiB, 1200x800

Anonymous Thu 07 May 2020 22:49:56 No.1483030 Report

Quoted By:

>>1482589
Chinks stole the ERJ plants.

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