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Anonymous Thu 17 Mar 2022 22:02:37 No.1774186 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1774615 >>1774642 >>1775492 >>1775787 >>1776510 >>1776577 >>1777015 >>1777594 >>1777604

Why is Japan unable to produce a valuable airliner?
Even Brazil can do it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Mar 2022 23:53:27 No.1774223 Report

Quoted By: >>1774628

No historic incentive for a civil aviation industry. Country is small enough for travel by other means, international movement historically revolved around goods, not people, in which case ships were the only relevant means.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 05:09:30 No.1774615 Report

Quoted By: >>1774642

>>1774186
They do build 777 fuselages for Boeing, but that might not count, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 06:41:57 No.1774628 Report

Quoted By: >>1774630 >>1776318

>>1774223
Also Japan's manufacturers already see that aviation's future will regress to one that is expensive and unsafe

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 06:46:58 No.1774630 Report

Quoted By: >>1774638

>>1774628
>aviation's future will regress to one that is expensive
Ok, I can see that
>and unsafe
What

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 07:24:48 No.1774638 Report

Quoted By:

>>1774630
You have increasingly violent passengers and the way the air travel system has changed enables overworking pilots and building planes from shoddy materials

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 07:28:08 No.1774642 Report

Quoted By: >>1774644 >>1774652 >>1774660 >>1775439

>>1774186
>Japan
Civil and military doesn't procure enough. Rocket science (JAXA's H-series) is less harsh than the realities of economics for a wholly domestic brand airliner.
MRJ is doing fine in GA.
>airliner
YPX was to be a twin-engine civil version of Kawasaki P-1. Seems difficult to convert this military dedicated design to meet commercial needs, compared to beginning on the drawing boards as the opposite.
>Brazil
Government support, geography, and Latin America market?

>>1774615
They participated in r&d and the entire launching effort, with manufacturing and parts supply continuing till now. Aside from B-777, the then B-767 (CTDC consortium at that time, although dropped out after B-7X7) and B-7J7 ("J" stands for JADC) are from YX and YXX projects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 07:31:31 No.1774644 Report

Quoted By:

>>1774642
+ Embrarer has been cooperating with KHI, and Bombardier is with Mitsubishi, aside from Boeing's relation with MHI et al.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 07:45:14 No.1774652 Report

Quoted By: >>1774660

>>1774642
A passenger P-1 isn't a hard design, the nose would make it look like a twin-engine version of a Convair CV-880

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 08:37:32 No.1774660 Report

Quoted By: >>1774683 >>1774936

>>1774642
>MRJ
* HondaJet
SpaceJet will be fine if not for Wuhan Coronavirus.

>>1774652
Still very big. Needs substantial redesign to a smaller fuselage to be competitive...? But yeah. not that "hard".
Ideally a Boeing--Japan--Embrarer regional alliance will help them combat Airbus's gain in A220 and above, with existing advantage in the market segment below (including against future advance in Zeroe). Now that CRJ is owned by MHIRJ (this MHI RJ is a confusing brand), the programme can just as easily be restarted and further developed. Only lacking in turboprop, with regional airlines forced to choose from ATR and Bombarder/DHC (for feeder and remote islands,

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 09:55:09 No.1774683 Report

Quoted By:

>>1774660
It could still be competitive while being wider-than-normal for its class, that was the idea with the cancelled Dornier 728 and 928 jets

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 19 Mar 2022 23:56:40 No.1774936 Report

Quoted By:

>>1774660
The MRJ was also slowed down by them choosing the P&W geared turbofan, which had development problems

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 01:36:57 No.1775439 Report

Quoted By:

>>1774642
>Seems difficult to convert this military dedicated design to meet commercial needs
*Laughs in IL-76*

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 04:15:28 No.1775492 Report

Quoted By: >>1775505 >>1775870

>>1774186
Have you seen their debt to GDP ratio? Its appalling even by Murican standards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 05:22:20 No.1775505 Report

Quoted By:

>>1775492
Japanese public debt is owned for the most part by japanese population, which makes the debt way more sustainable.
+ You could say the same for rail investment but they keep investing in it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 17:14:38 No.1775787 Report

Quoted By: >>1775879

>>1774186
They did. NAMC YS-11. It was a decent turboprop for its era it just didn't do well commercially relative to its budget but it saw a number of overseas operators.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 17:22:06 No.1775793 Report

Quoted By: >>1775970

Not like Brazil been doing it since the early days.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 18:17:48 No.1775817 Report

Quoted By: >>1776051 >>1776090

The biggest problem with the Japonese, is that they have no stomach for risk taking. It was always about failing safe and saving face at the end of the day. Now if you have been following aircraft developments, there is always a risk factor, but it is culture not technical intuitiveness that is the big problem when it comes to Japan and Airplanes.

The Japanese have always worked with a hierarchical structure as the root of their organization and planning, and in the many instances I've read, this is probably where the weakness lies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 20:17:55 No.1775870 Report

Quoted By:

>>1775492
>Its appalling even by Murican standards.
I know the US ran up lots of debt recently but historically it's been very low compared to Europe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 20:43:41 No.1775879 Report

Quoted By:

>>1775787
It likely would have done better if they put more funding behind the marketing of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 00:41:39 No.1775970 Report

Quoted By: >>1776049

>>1775793
Brazil invented true airplane, wtf ar u talking about

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 02:48:22 No.1776038 Report

Quoted By: >>1776049

>brazil
Dude. We invented/inaugurated aviation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 03:16:20 No.1776049 Report

Quoted By: >>1776383

>>1776038
>>1775970
And you want to take it down with you, judging by Embraer's continual investing in and banking on the least safe segment of the market (domestic and regional flights have higher crash rates and less-trained crews than international ones)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 03:17:21 No.1776051 Report

Quoted By:

>>1775817
Japan is one of the few societies that would have genuinely benefitted from socialism

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 05:01:36 No.1776090 Report

Quoted By:

>>1775817
>The Japanese have always worked with a hierarchical structure as the root of their organization and planning
I think this stems from being closed from the world for most of its modern history and then being forced to jump from a feudal agricultural state in the 1870s to an empire in about half a century then neutered straight after the war. It's hard to shake off the feudalistic culture of Japan considering they've only practiced moving away from that form of power structure for what, 150 years or so?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 14:29:35 No.1776318 Report

Quoted By:

>>1774628
yep, woman diversity building planes as we just saw.

Come to think of it, it has been down hill since concord, then went the 747 ....

now we are down to pajeet nigger planes with trap management.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 15:52:21 No.1776349 Report

Quoted By: >>1777022

Now that the dust has settled,

How good was pic related?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 17:51:48 No.1776383 Report

Quoted By: >>1776465

>>1776049
The regional market is the most profitable, the fuck you talking about?
Ofc companies would want to dip into this segment, it's the reason why Airbus bought Bombardier in the first place and why Boeing was desperate to to merge with Embraer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 21:45:00 No.1776465 Report

Quoted By:

>>1776383
READ: "HIGHER CRASH RATES" AND "LESS TRAINED CREWS"
THESE CREWS ALSO TEND TO BE OVERWORKED AND CAN EVEN GO DAYS WITHOUT SLEEP. IT'S LIKE YOU BELIEVETHE FAA AND NTSB AREN'T REAL. ANY AIRLINE YOU RUN WOLD DESERVE TO HAVE ITS EXECUTIVES CHARGED WITH NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 23:14:43 No.1776510 Report

Quoted By: >>1776574

>>1774186
The reason the MRJ isn't being certified in America is purely due to political reasons, the mutts don't want anymore competition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 00:33:23 No.1776574 Report

Quoted By:

>>1776510
Nah, japanese programs always been plagued with delays, just like their 5th gen programs.

Yes, ProgramS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 00:37:00 No.1776577 Report

Quoted By: >>1776616

>>1774186
Japanese are bugmen just like Chinese. Just read about the crash of JAL123.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Flight_123
Specifically read the section about the “delayed rescue operation” and one of the survivors recounts of the wails of the survivors each silencing as hours passed without rescue.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 01:46:06 No.1776616 Report

Quoted By: >>1776622

>>1776577
>No amelicajin, we'll take cale of it
>What, no signs on the spot? Better build camp and let the clashsite get even more caotic

Idk why, but this is reminded me of Junk Furuta case.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 01:49:55 No.1776622 Report

Quoted By: >>1776624

>>1776616
yikes, no need to be racist

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 01:52:53 No.1776624 Report

Quoted By: >>1776643 >>1776959

>>1776622
Nah, i lived in Japan bro.
The only difference between them and Chinese in terms of bugmen is that Japan hides it behind anime.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 02:24:26 No.1776643 Report

Quoted By:

>>1776624
And a 2 party system

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 16:20:10 No.1776959 Report

Quoted By: >>1776961

>>1776624
you are a racist

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 16:25:18 No.1776961 Report

Quoted By: >>1777012

>>1776959
What's wrong with being racist?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 18:28:55 No.1777012 Report

Quoted By:

>>1776961
You don’t have the salt to be a racist in public. You wont call a black man the N-word or an Asian man a bugman irl. Being an anonymous online racist is the most beta activity imaginable. So you are literally the embodiment of pathetic cringe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 18:34:30 No.1777015 Report

Quoted By: >>1777084 >>1777260

>>1774186
Why is SpaceKek so overweight? The program is suspended now because they spent billions of dollars and years of R&D trying to shave off weight to make the airframe competitive and ended up getting nowhere with their efforts. They even bought CRJ support ops from Bombardier in anticipation of SpaceJet launch (so that they'd have global maintenance ops ready), and what's going to happen to that now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 19:03:29 No.1777022 Report

Quoted By:

>>1776349
It's awesome. In fact, too awesome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 21:08:45 No.1777084 Report

Quoted By: >>1777246 >>1777253

>>1777015
Because It's capacity is too low for the Japanese domestic market (Max of 70 people). Japan uses widebodies for domestic flights because of how dense their population is in the cities. Airlines in Japan know that every flight with this plane would be full and risk overloading.
The idea of air travel downsizing falsely presumes that air travel is mainly intended as the replacement for travelling by car or bus, and that major roadways were intended to be used as runways

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 04:40:25 No.1777246 Report

Quoted By: >>1777257

>>1777084
Japan flies lots of domestic narrowbodies. I've flown on a lot of A320-series and 737s on Japanese domestics before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 04:53:44 No.1777253 Report

Quoted By: >>1777284

>>1777084
>capacity is too low for the Japanese domestic market
Quite a lot of regional airports are using sub- B-737 and A320, or for certain routes.
>widebodies for domestic flights because of how dense their population is in the cities
By your logic, they can support more narrowbodies where others have to use regionals.
>major roadways were intended to be used as runways
No?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 05:02:13 No.1777257 Report

Quoted By: >>1777258

>>1777246
>737
>A320
Those are bigger than the MRJ

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 05:03:41 No.1777258 Report

Quoted By: >>1777285

>>1777257
Yes, but I was addressing your point about widebodies on domestic routes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 05:28:34 No.1777260 Report

Quoted By: >>1777373

>>1777015
Too much aluminum because they couldn't afford carbon composites.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 07:40:57 No.1777284 Report

Quoted By:

>>1777253
>Quite a lot of regional airports are using sub- B-737 and A320, or for certain routes.
Yeah this jet would totally land on short runways in the Izu islands

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 07:57:55 No.1777285 Report

Quoted By:

>>1777258
I'm not him

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 12:45:25 No.1777373 Report

Quoted By: >>1777533 >>1777599 >>1777917

>>1777260
>Too much aluminum because they couldn't afford carbon composites
more like they couldn’t figure out the carbon composites. There is hardly any of that cutting edge industry in Japan. The Japanese have been technologically stagnant for 30 years.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 19:47:32 No.1777533 Report

Quoted By: >>1777575

>>1777373
How?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 22:23:18 No.1777575 Report

Quoted By:

>>1777533
I can't tell if he's being sarcastic or he's just a typical /pol/cel retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 23:35:25 No.1777594 Report

Quoted By:

>>1774186
America banned them from making aircraft during the occupation, so they technologically regressed. Especially because that was when we switched from props to jets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 23:44:36 No.1777599 Report

Quoted By: >>1779544

>>1777373
They did it because of costs. Boeing and Airbus can employ economies of scale in their orders of composite parts. The MRJ didn't have enough orders and the program would've been billions further in the red with their salebook if they went carbon composites.

Remember this is supposed to be an affordable regional jet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Mar 2022 23:53:17 No.1777604 Report

Quoted By: >>1778141 >>1779618

>>1774186
they have dope asf trains, why use plains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Mar 2022 15:33:35 No.1777917 Report

Quoted By:

>>1777373
Toray, a japanese company, is a main supplier of carbon fiber to all aerospace industry

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 26 Mar 2022 02:07:14 No.1778141 Report

Quoted By: >>1779618

>>1777604
It's actually cheaper and quicker to fly than use the shinkansen in many cases, especially if you live off the "backbone." For example, If you live in Okayama, then you can ride a train to Tokyo directly. But if you're in Tottori which is just north of Okayama, the pain and time associated with traveling south to Okayama means you're better off just going direct from Tottori airport.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 10:01:22 No.1779544 Report

Quoted By:

>>1777599
I think the issue was its capacity was too low, the other jets in its class are all roughly 100-120 passengers. Low-capacity regional jets now are only useful in travelling to remote locations that have short or rough runways. The smallest jets used for regional travel are Dassault Falcons that fly for Air Nunavut

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 14:05:29 No.1779618 Report

Quoted By: >>1779640

>>1777604
They have LCC and bus too.

>>1778141
>Tottori which is just north of Okayama, the pain and time associated with traveling south to Okayama
Yonago. Tottori via Himeji, and Super Hakuto on Chizu Express Line is faster than Yakumo on Hakubi Line. Both have airport close to the city center, unlike the worst in Hiroshima. Okj is still separated in the mountains, without direct motorway access.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 29 Mar 2022 14:33:38 No.1779640 Report

Quoted By:

>>1779618
I'm not sure of what you are trying to say. Do you mean that Yonago is the better airport? Or do you mean that taking the train to via Chizu express line is best if you want to take the Shinkansen?
Nonetheless, the cost and time associated with long train travel when you are not near the Shinkansen usually means taking a regional airport flight is more cost and time effective.
Take Tokushima for example. If you're hellbent on taking trains then you can go to Takamatsu and take the marine liner to get to Okayama, but that's basically two full hours and something like 5000 yen. Or if you don't want to fly then you can take a Ferry to Wakayama and train from there. Still, a lot of time taken.
Basically, flying makes sense in a lot of cases.

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