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Minimal offgrid electric consumption

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 08:15:51 No.1155800 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1155801 >>1155838 >>1155851 >>1155903 >>1155980 >>1156000

How much electricity does one need for a "normal life" offgrid (having an office job, not going full survivalist) ?

I don't know where to post this, sorry if I'm in the wrong board but I don't think this belong on /diy/ or /k/.

I unplugged all the electric appliances I could and tried to live a week without electricity. My fridge, electric heater and hot water heater were the only things working but I still managed to spend 10kwh despite using a solar panel to charge my phone and computer.

What is the minimal offgrid electric consumption one could reach ?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 08:21:45 No.1155801 Report

Quoted By:

>>1155800
>10kwh
*100

I'm considering dropping the fridge and living from canned meat and fresh trouts. At this temp, butter and any other food will surely survive outside the fridge. But those freakin heaters are draining all my money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 09:16:05 No.1155818 Report

Quoted By:

get rid of the hot water heater and the electric heater
take cold showers and use a blanket. warm up by the fire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 10:23:07 No.1155838 Report

Quoted By:

>>1155800

Heating water takes a fuckload of energy. I bought an on demand compact hot shower machine about the size of a suitcase which runs on coleman propane cylinders (but can be hooked up to any size tank)

That's all I really need hot water for, so one cylinder lasts a surprisingly long time.

Heating is also energy intensive. Don't heat the air, heat your body with an electric blanket. You can wear a jacket indoors, you only really need to be warm to sleep.

If that's not good enough, go propane for heating too. Heating air electrically is also very energy hungry and expensive to do with PV and batteries.

If you switch all heating and cooling stuff over to propane but do the rest with solar and batteries it should be a lot cheaper and more feasible. That's what a lot of RVers and van dwellers do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 11:17:21 No.1155851 Report

Quoted By:

>>1155800
How long is a piece of string?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 14:09:41 No.1155903 Report

Quoted By: >>1155904

>>1155800
>"normal life"

That's extremely subjective. My electric bill states my usage is around the 250Kwh to 450Kwh range per month. When I had a live-in girlfriend, it was over 2Mwh per month. I'm not really trying to use less electric, but I am certainly not actively wasting it. I also keep everything unplugged unless I am using it or like the fridge it needs to be on. Here's a list of my devices:

Gaming PC: 600watt PSU
Monitor/TV:204watt
Sound System: 200watt
Various electric cookware (toaster, toaster oven, sandwich maker) that I rarely use 1kw - 2kw
Box fan
Ceiling fan
Fridge
Lighting: LED, CFL, & FL

Obviously, my largest usage is the PC being on several hours a day. On the rare times I want or need to save money I will break out my 32watt netbook and use it for shitposting, movies, and porn instead of the huge PC. That usually gets me into the 50-100kwh used in a month range.

You should get/make a wood stove. They are great.

>What is the minimal offgrid electric consumption one could reach ?

0kwh/month

Heating: wood stove
Heating water: wood stove/solar

Use coppacing and pollarding for your wood fuel needs. That allows the same use of land without the need for replanting. Also, you can harvest the wood when it is the right diameter so you don't need to split it. For solar water heating, only use a passive system. In cold weather areas where t he water freezes outside, use a 2-part system that has an antifreeze loop for the outside. The sun heats up the outside loop and a heat exchanger inside transfers that heat to your insulated batch heating water system for later use.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 14:10:44 No.1155904 Report

Quoted By:

>>1155903
>For solar water heating, only use a passive system. In cold weather areas where t he water freezes outside, use a 2-part system that has an antifreeze loop for the outside. The sun heats up the outside loop and a heat exchanger inside transfers that heat to your insulated batch heating water system for later use.

Like this, but however you may need to rig it up a bit differently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 14:44:04 No.1155917 Report

Quoted By:

Why do you need hot water? Just lather and rinse with freezing water, dry off by the fire. Or with a towel, jump into your sleeping bag with your electric blanket/honey/dog to warm up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 15:10:48 No.1155934 Report

Quoted By: >>1155992

Anon, off grid living is the ultimate dream.

If you want to work towards self sufficiency, you have to rethink, and re-define your quality of life.

A wood stove is the ultimate heating/cooking apparatus. No need for heaters.

Yes, unplug the fridge. If it's something you can't live without, get a smaller fridge unit, monitor the watt hours you need to power what you have. Don't forget a fridge full of food takes MUCH less energy to keep cold, as opposed to an empty fridge.

What generator are you running? Hopefully not the overpriced Goal Zero in OP pic. Build your own solar generator with a power inverter, solar charg port, and you can also throw in an AV wall outlet. Get some batteries to put in tandem.

The large Goal zero costs $2k USD. You can make a solar generator with more battery holding power for under $500. There's currently a thread open about it on /diy/

>>>/diy/1290850

Another great thing to consider is getting a pressure canner, and canning jars of meats, or vegetables yourself. Most of the improvements you can manifest to get you off grid are skills and understanding.

Work on the little changes, but take a journal of what is not working, so you can find the weak link in your rhythm.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 16:06:28 No.1155980 Report

Quoted By:

>>1155800

You can drastically reduce power consumption of your refrigerator by buying a chest freezer. Chest refrigerators are hard to find but easy to make.

Depending on your usage patterns, a tankless water heater might save you energy. Insulation and sealing your home helps... these days on adafruit you can buy the parts to make a thermal camera to find leaks for under 50 dollars, including a raspberry pi and screen. Which btw becomes your Linux pc that handles your nongaming computer needs at 10 watts max including display.

Reduce your energy consumption gradually. Eventually your power needs drop enough that solar or whatever becomes practical.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 16:21:41 No.1155992 Report

Quoted By: >>1156014 >>1156054 >>1156145

>>1155934
>Cut down more trees
Will never understand this meme
All my friends too think wood stoves are the bee's knees, when in reality it's just an unsustainable, romanticized piece of technology
They're nice to have in an emergency, but they are not efficient and will eventually cost you and your family the surrounding forest which provides more sustenance given that you're not a compete idiot and are trying to off grid in an area lacking natural resources found in wooded areas

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 16:31:15 No.1156000 Report

Quoted By:

>>1155800
My friend lives off grid in Canada. He is retired but he still checks Facebook and email. He has his own cell tower for that. That's a big investment. He also has solar panels where he gets a lot of his power (he doesn't use much electricity) pretty much everything is propane. Propane fridge and freezer, hooked up a washing machine and dryer on propane recently. Stove obviously propane. He has a propane heater but mostly he uses wood stove for all his heating and sometimes cooking. He has a generator but rarely runs it because it's so inefficient. He also has a windmill that he's in the process of fixing. Our cabin uses solar for basic lighting. We have 48 volt batteries from an airplane hooked up and solar trickle charging them. But we also have a generator in case we want to watch a movie or if one of the ladies needs to dry her hair, but the generator uses gas like nothing. when the generator runs it also charges them. Hot water is brutal on propane consumption. If you can rig a way for the wood stove to heat up your water try that. We looked into it. My friend off grid goes through a hundred gallon propane tank a month, we go though one a week. But he pulls all his propane tanks in on a wheeler though 25 miles of trails, if you can have a truck drive right up to your house and fill up one of those big ones it'll be cheaper. If you can get natural gas it's even cheaper. Maybe even drill for it, I'm not sure how that goes. Geothermal energy might be about 50K one time , if you're interested in that. My other friend runs off mostly solar but that cost 30k to install. If you have a creek near you look into damning it up and using that to spin a turbine. Good luck

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 16:51:51 No.1156014 Report

Quoted By: >>1156024

>>1155992
Youre assuming you don't replant / coppice. Look at it like a crop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 17:02:28 No.1156024 Report

Quoted By: >>1156044

>>1156014
A crop that takes years and in most cases decades to regrow and mature to the point where the material is useable for fire wood is not sustainable
Maintaining a forest and expanding upon it's natural resources as well as introducing an increasing number of edible and medicinal plants far outweighs the short term benefits of not having to pay for fire wood and temporarily heating your home or in this case, one space within your home due to the shit heat transfer of wood burning stoves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 17:43:59 No.1156044 Report

Quoted By:

>>1156024
When you coppice you have several stands of wood. You cut one down every year and by the time you get to the last stand, the first stand is ready to cut down the following year. It is a type of very old land management developed in Europe because they cut everything down doing other stupid things. The number of years in the cycle is dependent on the type of trees you are growing. You still need to fertilize the soil of course.

>shit heat transfer of wood burning stoves.

That really isn't a problem with any popular stove design. You can also get an outdoor model that pumps heat into your house. Circulating stoves are really good too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 17:52:04 No.1156054 Report

Quoted By: >>1156057 >>1156265 >>1156367

>>1155992
Gathering deadfall, and splitting wood yourself is a free method of heating your home. All it takes is a little time devotion.

2 days worth of splitting and stacking deadfall can be enough wood to last you an entire year.

Now can 2 days worth of pay be enough to heat your home for an entire year? I highly doubt it.

1 large fallen tree is about a 1/2 cord of wood. Roughly 4 cords of wood are needed for a year for heating purposes.

1 split log is all you need to heat up a 500sq ft room for 3+ hours, and that's only counting burn time, the radiant heat from the cast iron will keep the head rocking for about an hour after that.

I'm guessing you've never owned or operated a wood stove before.

Not to mention you can duel purpose this appliance if you get a model that you can cook on top of, or even get a wood oven model. Your heating and cooking unit is the same piece, and saves on space as well as being nearly free. Saving you on tons of electric, or gas consumption.

If you're still not sold, there are countless free wood adds on craigslist of people who have fallen trees on their property. A pick up truck, or trailer, a chain saw, and an afternoon can yield enough wood for half a winter. Do that twice, and you're set.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 17:57:37 No.1156057 Report

Quoted By:

>>1156054
Contacting local companies who do tree felling like in the USA there's Asplundh who cut trees down and turn it all into wood chips. You can befriend a few of them and show up where they are working to haul off logs and wood chips. They love that because they have to find places to dump the wood chips and they don't like driving very far.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 20:31:20 No.1156145 Report

Quoted By: >>1156163

>>1155992
What the fuck? My parents have been living on a 25-acre parcel for 30 years, burning about 6-8 cords/year, with no depletion whatsoever to the forested 20 or so acres of it. In fact, it's more grown in than it was when they bought the place. You need to get your facts straight.

Or maybe you were only pretending.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 21:05:21 No.1156163 Report

Quoted By: >>1156172

>>1156145
I should also mention that their only heat source is a woodstove in the kitchen. No other heat is used all winter. It gets cold in the bedrooms, which is what wool blankets are for. And they live in a drafty pre-Revolutionary War house with not a lot of insulation. You could easily do 2-4 cords/year and be comfortable if you have a smaller house with good insulation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 21:23:46 No.1156172 Report

Quoted By:

>>1156163
>It gets cold in the bedrooms, which is what wool blankets are for.
That's also how little brothers, and sisters get made.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 21:39:50 No.1156183 Report

Quoted By:

My parents live a completely "normal" life off grid, satellite TV/internet, microwave, dryer, etc. I don't have all the specs for the solar system but it's 8 sizable panels, and a bank of 12 lead acid batteries that were retired from a phone company battery bank (good place to source them). They use a wood burning stove for heat and a propane fridge, hot water heater, and stove. They have both a 5k watt and 2k watt generator but only need the 2k watt unless it's the middle of winter and they are running the dryer + other things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 23:34:00 No.1156265 Report

Quoted By: >>1156356

>>1156054
Depending on where you live you might be severely underestimating how much wood you need. In just a winter you might go through 10-15 cord of wood.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Dec 2017 23:43:35 No.1156278 Report

Quoted By:

I lived for three yrs with no phn, electricity, running water or indoor plumbing.

I used a propane two burner, kerosene lamps and heater and a wood burner cast iron stove. I hauled water in 5gal jugs and washed in a basin.

It changed my life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Dec 2017 00:01:10 No.1156295 Report

Quoted By: >>1156309

I live "off grid" in a heavily modded 2014 Subaru Forester. Got 4, 120 watt panels on the roof with a solar water heater system. Works really fucking well in the summer, kind of conks out in the winter because I live in an area that's basically all-grey. In the summer I'm near 100% utilization (generating ~450 watts, the loss due to all the tech behind battery charging/watching), in the winter it's more like 25%-75% efficiency (usually ~40%). It's more than enough to keep my laptop, heated seats, and lights powered with no thought to "oh, do I have to conserve now?". The only time I had an issue with getting low on power was a solid two weeks of basically no break in cloud cover. To fix it I just ran the car for a bit to recharge the batteries.

My total setup:
>4, 120 watt solar panels
>4, 155ah deep cycle AGM batteries in parallel
>a 500 watt pure sine wave converter
>some chinkshit MPPT charging controller

it powers:
>heated seats in my car
>overhead and laying around in the tent/car lights
>macbook pro, my phone, and all other doodads like an iPad and raspberry pi
>12V 50 quart ARB fridge

for things like water heating, i use a propane system i made myself if it's the winter. otherwise i made this black PVC system that heats the water up with the sun. the only reason i'd want a large amount of warm/hot water are showers, which is exactly what i use it for. otherwise, hot water for cooking is through my coleman stove or jetboil.

Been doing this for 3 years now, so if you have any Qs just ask.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Dec 2017 00:17:01 No.1156309 Report

Quoted By:

>>1156295
All this and no pics.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 11 Dec 2017 00:51:52 No.1156332 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Dec 2017 01:22:35 No.1156356 Report

Quoted By:

>>1156265
It also depends on the type of wood you are using, how large your home is, and the size of your stove.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Dec 2017 01:33:59 No.1156367 Report

Quoted By:

>>1156054
Depends where, maybe in someplace mild like new mexico, in Canada or Alaska, no, I did 15 cords a year for 800 sq ft in Alaska with good insinuation and blankets and cold weather gear. It just depends.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Dec 2017 02:04:24 No.1156388 Report

Quoted By:

On a good day I get 2kw of sunlight average. So that's 2000 watts, amirite?
With that, I power 1 possible 2 solar chestfreezer/fridges, real led light bulbs, air purifiers, aquarium pump, computer and speakers, then other doodads.
My batteries are massive and hold 9000 watthours. I drained them once by mistake so I have to replace them soon since their efficiency is now shot.
Rocket stove is malfunctioning so I'm using a kerosene heater.
I did get a backup generator that runs off propane, so will plug an infrared heater/air conditioner into that while I refresh my batteries once or twice a week.
I live in a concrete cave so it absorbs and regulates the temperature.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 12 Dec 2017 07:04:14 No.1157276 Report

Quoted By:

Thank you everyone. I have decided to shut down the fridge for ever and use a heating blanket instead of an electric heater. Will post my weekly electricity consumption if the thread doesn't 404.

Currently :
electric heater every night and all weekend
hot water heater 1h every morning
600W computer for 8h a day
cooking on a induction stove
phone solar charged
100kwh a week

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