/out/ - Outdoors » Thread #1399569

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Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 16:42:47 No.1399569 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1399575 >>1399601 >>1399621 >>1399693 >>1399798 >>1399838 >>1399869 >>1399883 >>1400762 >>1400809 >>1401090 >>1403312 >>1403315 >>1404264 >>1405310 >>1405606 >>1405608

I've dabbaled in snowboarding when I was in high school but didn't get really into it.
I'm 32 now and thinking of trying to getting into it.
Or is it too uncool for an old man to hit the slopes

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 16:56:16 No.1399575 Report

Quoted By: >>1399576 >>1399621 >>1399884 >>1399886 >>1400762

>>1399569
35 here - do you want to hurt yourself and also get sucked into a sport that costs like $75 for a lift ticket, as well as a new deck, boots, and bindings. You’re not eleigible for the high school kid discount anymore at the mountain

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 16:58:49 No.1399576 Report

Quoted By: >>1399620

>>1399575
lol yeah. I don't mind putting down the money. It's more if I can find a group or something that'll teach a grown adult and I'm not learning with 13 year olds

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 17:04:02 No.1399579 Report

Quoted By: >>1399601

Start mountaineering instead. The only gentleman's sport.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 17:43:18 No.1399601 Report

Quoted By: >>1399799

>>1399569
Honestly, as a snowboarder of 14 years who started at age 10, I really regret not having gotten into skiing from the get go instead. I was all hopped up on Tony Hawk PS2 games and wanted to do something with “boarding” in its name. Don’t get me wrong, it’s been fun, but there’s far less utility and cross-discipline applicability to boarding vs skiing. One day when I have the income to do so, I’ll make the switch, but for now my meager discretionary funds are sunk into boarding so a boarder I remain. You can pay for one on one lessons at most mountains if you don’t want to be learning with zoomers, but it’ll cost more than group lessons.

TL;DR take up skiing (especially XC), snowshoeing, or what >>1399579 suggested, don’t fall for the boardmeme

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 18:13:50 No.1399620 Report

Quoted By: >>1401091 >>1406028

>>1399576
I am 32 and ride. I also make dough (it sounds like you do too)... take a few private lessons or find "adult" classes just so you don't get lumped in with a bunch of 14 year olds. i wouldn't worry about cool and uncool. everyone "cool" at a resort mountain is a tool or country club thug. Also no one is really looking at you unless you do Hollywood runs and even then no one really cares.

i would also apply the rule of 10 (don't buy any gear until you have done it 10 times in a year) just so you dont sink a grand into something you never use.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 18:14:36 No.1399621 Report

Quoted By: >>1399630 >>1399838 >>1399982 >>1405530

>>1399569
I find that the older snowboarders are the most chill. It's the older skiiers that tend to have a telephone pole stuck up their asses. If you wanna be really cool, just snowboard anyways because fuck what everyone else thinks.

>>1399575
>$75 for a lift ticket
jfc go to a less pozzed hill, I pay *maximum* $30 a day for the hill I go to, $200 for season pass which pays for itself if you go every weekend.
>pic related my backyard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 18:29:15 No.1399630 Report

Quoted By: >>1399633

>>1399621
>jfc go to a less pozzed hill, I pay *maximum* $30 a day for the hill I go to, $200 for season pass which pays for itself if you go every weekend.
Op is 32, and probably has a job, and it’s probably Monday-Friday. Looking at a somewhat local mountain to me, which isn’t a ski resort destination by any means, the weekend rate for an adult is $88
https://www.goremountain.com/tickets-passes/ticket-rental-rates

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 18:34:23 No.1399633 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399630
Not gonna lie to ya, I would definitely pay the $80 to snowboard that hill. It looks like amazing fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 20:08:35 No.1399692 Report

Quoted By:

Explains a lot about this board that there are so many snowboarders here

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 20:13:22 No.1399693 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399569
Patricians ski

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 22:30:57 No.1399798 Report

Quoted By: >>1399820 >>1399829 >>1404178

>>1399569

Lmao enjoy your broken ass and exploding knees.

Ski>>>>sled>>>>>>rolling down with your body>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Snowboard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 22:31:59 No.1399799 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399601

Sell or change your board shit for skis and boots, or you could rent material, it's not expensive or hard to do. I

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 23:11:35 No.1399820 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399798
>ski less injurious than snowboard
is this nigga fo real

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 23:34:26 No.1399829 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399798
you forgot sliding down on your belly after a running start (penguin style)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 19 Nov 2018 23:51:00 No.1399838 Report

Quoted By: >>1399869 >>1399882 >>1399962

>>1399569
>is it too uncool
no it's not, do it, but do skiing and get into ski mountaineering eventually

>>1399621
>jfc go to a less pozzed hill
some of us like skiing on mountains, anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Nov 2018 01:05:47 No.1399869 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399838
fuck that picture is awesome.

>>1399569
OP you are literally the snowboarder version of me, only a couple years younger.
"Skied" a little in high school, but moved out west earlier this year to learn how to properly ski and begin ski mountaineering. everyone's got different goals of course but basically I've managed to find snow to ride every month since April so far, except for August and September.
Also snowboarders *are pretty fuckin chill, lots of awesome splitboarders in the backcountry

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Nov 2018 01:36:18 No.1399882 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399838
Guy on the left in that picture is just chilling on the cornace. Doesn’t even know he’s about to die

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Nov 2018 01:36:45 No.1399883 Report

Quoted By: >>1400723

>>1399569
Nah dude. I was 30 when I first learned to snowboard.
Here's the reality though.
The first day snowboarding sucks. A lot. You WILL fall. You WILL be covered with bruises. It won't be so bad of there's good fresh powder though.
Skiing vs snowboarding: skiing is way easier to pick up as a newbie and you can do it at older age. My mate's 70yo dad still goes skiing every year and when I worked in hotels we'd always get 80 and 90yo skiiers check in. Skiing it's also easier to move across flat ground.
Snowboarding though is "more fun" if that makes any sense. On a good powder day it's like surfing a never ending wave. Also snowboarding is better in shitty conditions. Skiiers have a real hard time on icy or slushy conditions like in spring, snowboarders don't give a shit.
If you fall in a tree well on a snowboard though you're fucked. Skiing you have a decent chance to get out by yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Nov 2018 01:37:53 No.1399884 Report

Quoted By: >>1403321

>>1399575
Best place to learn to ski for cheap is go to Japan and get lessons from an English speaking instructor.
Lift passes are $15 a day there and a day's lesson will only set you back $20 or so as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Nov 2018 01:39:06 No.1399886 Report

Quoted By: >>1403321

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Nov 2018 03:22:48 No.1399962 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399838
>some of us like skiing on mountains
lol the poster you quoted is in MN, where's he supposed to go??

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 20 Nov 2018 04:06:09 No.1399982 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399621
>jfc go to a less pozzed hill, I pay *maximum* $30 a day for the hill I go to
enjoy your 400 vert, sounds totally worth the money

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 17:35:45 No.1400723 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399883
> snowboarding is better in shitty conditions. Skiiers have a real hard time on icy or slushy conditions like in spring, snowboarders don't give a shit.

I'd push back on that. In powder snowboarding > skiing. On hardpack/ice skiing > snowboarding.

Reason being that skis can have 2 edges in the snow while snowboards can only have one. This provides much better traction and control in icy/hardpack conditions. For the same reason, though, skis have less surface area on powder and are more likely to get caught. Either way, both sports are great, but skis are definitely more versatile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 18:36:05 No.1400762 Report

Quoted By: >>1400763

>>1399569
Go nuts dude, get a lesson and try to listen to your instructor, if you get an American or a kiwi they tend to be pretty good, as other anons have said Japan is great, the big fields there are expensive and lessons aren't cheap, but the snow is unrivalled, the food is spectacular, onsens are amazing, and there's heaps of middle aged dudes who snowboard there
>>1399575
Don't listen to this fag

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 18:40:24 No.1400763 Report

Quoted By: >>1400801 >>1400824 >>1400929

>>1400762
>as other anons have said Japan is great, the big fields there are expensive and lessons aren't cheap, but the snow is unrivalled, the food is spectacular, onsens are amazing, and there's heaps of middle aged dudes who snowboard there
I don’t think op is moving to Japan to learn how to snowboard... are you high

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 19:43:48 No.1400801 Report

Quoted By:

>>1400763
bro you're not living until you've travelled to Japan to learn how to ski, and to america to learn how to eat cheeseburgers

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 19:53:35 No.1400809 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399569
you're 32 and still worried about looking cool?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 20:18:03 No.1400824 Report

Quoted By:

>>1400763
>not moving to Japan to study the way of the board
get away from me you filthy casual

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Nov 2018 23:40:31 No.1400929 Report

Quoted By:

>>1400763
Its a cheap country, best powder in the world and lift passes and lessons there only $20 a pop. Also post ski hotsprings.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Nov 2018 05:33:23 No.1401090 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399569
Best advice I can give you is to get yourself a short wider pair of ski's, I didn't really start hitting mountains till I was about 32 yrs old other than a few times on smaller hills when I was younger. I am good on skates, always have been. I am good on ski's as well, naturally. Wasn't long before I was hitting double black diamond runs and what a rush, but to me I have to attack them and it's do or possibly die no shitting.
Boarding is different and I don't enjoy the locked into that position and getting around with one foot out doing that technique. A friend of mine was learning snowboarding at the time and I thought no way in hell would I rather that, but to each his own.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Nov 2018 05:34:26 No.1401091 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399620
Great advice, you should listen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Nov 2018 06:48:39 No.1401112 Report

Quoted By:

come to NZ jajajajajajajajajajajaja

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Nov 2018 23:02:24 No.1403312 Report

Quoted By: >>1403323 >>1403346 >>1403986

>>1399569
29 here, only ever skied or snowboarded on school trips. Thinking about getting into skiing this winter season.
How often does one have to go skiiing before it makes more sense to buy your own gear instead of renting?
Also what sort of outerwear should I be getting?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Nov 2018 23:19:17 No.1403315 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399569
oldfag here.. only started myself at 29
now 42 and still go every year.
probably if i would start from scratch again. i'd take up skiing as i've been told it's faster to get a hang of it...also the two sticks make waiting
breaks a lot more comfy.
other than that once you get the basics down. i really see no difference in (un-) coolness and i'll probably keep on doing it till my body gives out.
if you have the money. just shell out for private lessons... i took grouip lessons when i started and my group was 4 people from 22-26 ish ., nobody would care i'd think

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Nov 2018 23:24:15 No.1403321 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399884
>>1399886
can vouch for the hotsprings , but lift passes are usually 30- 40 Euro a day. accomodation is also a tad more expensive than say austria or italy or france. Atmosphere is chill and relaxed, food is good , but no apres ski :(

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Nov 2018 23:26:19 No.1403323 Report

Quoted By:

>>1403312
It all depends on you, my dude
You can generally get second hand clothing and stuff like gloves and goggles for cheap, and depending on where you are you might be able to get skis for cheaper than renting
There's a few cost saving things you can do, I use my rain jacket as an outer shell sometimes if it's not too cold, maybe you don't need to buy or hire a ski jacket at all, but I will recommend that you don't try the same trick with waterproof pants
Owning your own gear is also a huge quality of life improvement over renting, but until you don't need to rent anything, you won't get there
The one thing that people say you should buy are boots, and they are right, but boots are expensive, the return on investment there is up to you to calculate vs renting, good boots from a bootfitter will help you more than you might think, but yeah I'd probably still hold off and go a few times before buying anything to make sure it's something you enjoy first

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Nov 2018 23:54:23 No.1403346 Report

Quoted By:

>>1403312
I would say 1-2 times a month would make sense to buy your own gear.
But I think the bigger requirement is how many years you go.
If it's something you see yourself doing long term, then it makes sense to get your own gear. But if you're the kind of person who picks up a hobby for a year or two then drop it. Just rent

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Nov 2018 00:00:12 No.1403352 Report

Quoted By: >>1403988

32 fag here, been skateboarding forever, only recently got into snowboarding and I love it. Best advice is to quit being a jew and take some private lessons - learn to carve and have tons of fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Nov 2018 22:50:03 No.1403986 Report

Quoted By: >>1404850 >>1404856

>>1403312
go to a recycle shop or 2nd hand store, preferably near a ski resort and buy second hand shit. just know how to check for gear that's fucked vs gear that's still in good nick.
My first set of snowboarding gear set me back just over $100 all up at the recycle shop in Whistler.
$14 for a helmet
$32 for a snowboard
$10 for goggles
$10 for boots
$15 for bindings
$30 on a good jacket
already had my own gloves and pants

ended up replacing the pants, gloves, goggles and bindings with better ones later in the season

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Nov 2018 22:51:40 No.1403988 Report

Quoted By:

>>1403352
>Best advice is to quit being a jew and take some private lessons
This. Do 2 or 3 half-days of private lessons. Well worth the money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Nov 2018 04:41:39 No.1404178 Report

Quoted By: >>1404189 >>1404244 >>1405324 >>1405718

>>1399798
Skiing fucks your knees dog

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Nov 2018 04:58:41 No.1404189 Report

Quoted By:

>>1404178
It fucks your feet way harder than anything else d e s u

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Nov 2018 07:04:24 No.1404244 Report

Quoted By:

>>1404178
I worked in hostels and hotels, maybe it's still because snowboarding is still relatively new but I was always amazed getting guests in their 80's and 90's check into the hotel to go skiing. I think oldest we had was a 92yo guy. We first thought he just came to get drunk and hit on the young girls but he was killing it on the ski hill.
We also used to get a pair of best friends in their 80's come twice a year every year for a week each time to ski and drink together to get away from their wives.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Nov 2018 08:26:23 No.1404264 Report

Quoted By: >>1404883

>>1399569

Hey, I worked at a ski resort for a few years to get through college.

>age
Your age isn't an issue as far as injury or aesthetic. You'll be under layers anyways so no-one is going to see your wrinkles. You're also young enough to bounce back on the things the most people hit. If you decide to start dropping into cliffs, just go on a powder day. If you decide to hit up the park, you might hurt a bit longer than the teenagers.

>price
Buy a pass on an off-season. Passes are usually the best deals if you're planning on going crazy during the ski year. Some resorts also offer passes for volunteer work. So if you work a certain amount of days for the resort, you could get a season pass. I'd recommend you just pay the pass though, the resort will use you as slave labor.

>coming back to snowboarding
I have never seen it take longer than 3 consecutive days of boarding to pick up the basics. People always fall a lot and get REALLY sore on the first days, but once that curve is out of the way it's a lot easier to progress quickly.

>back-country or local hills
You can train yourself on slopes that aren't groomed. The style will be a bit harder for a novice, but it's something to consider if you want to improve without having to go to a resort every time. Back-country is kind of a vague term. I wouldn't suggest you go into avalanche prone areas with very steep slopes and high snowfall until you have training and a couple of years under your belt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Nov 2018 03:21:51 No.1404850 Report

Quoted By: >>1405307

Don't worry at all about looking cool, something about the mountains makes everyone laid-back and non-judgemental.

Others have already discussed the finer points about your options, so all i'll say is that you should go for it, you will not regret your decision, a nice day on your board is as good as great sex.

>>1403986
i recommend spending a little more than $10 on boots

Something I might mention is that I almost always unsold gear from a few years ago. Mountains also often sell old rental gear in the early/pre-season.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Nov 2018 03:36:46 No.1404856 Report

Quoted By: >>1405307

>>1403986
I just bought snowpants and a jacket new. Kept the tags on, I'll check out a second hand shop.
I have leather driving gloves but no snow gloves. I have literally zero snow gear. Still, hoping to get my shit together and try it out next week on my time off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Nov 2018 04:10:40 No.1404876 Report

Quoted By:

I am convinced that no-one on this website shreds park. Prove me wrong /out/

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Nov 2018 04:18:22 No.1404883 Report

Quoted By:

>>1404264
friendly reminder to all itt that avalanches are absurdly dangerous and deadly! one of the worst ways to go out, comparable to drowning.
These things have the kinetic energy of a freight train, they are a force of nature like a tornado or earthquake.

>if you're not certified and want to go backcountry, take a course. it will save your life.
>avalanches can occur on slopes as mild as 35 degrees
>always bring a beacon, probe, and shovel. know how to use them and practice often
>check both the weather forecast and avalanche danger forecast before setting out.
>if you're with a group, stay spread out on traverses and when descending

there's a lot more to it than that though, please take it seriously as others can be killed by an avalanche you start. Training, practice, caution and discipline will help keep you safe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Nov 2018 04:24:03 No.1404888 Report

Quoted By:

Go for it. it's my favorite winter sport because of the backcountry aspect. Theres so much variety and even rudimentary skills will be a blast on the slopes. But you'll fall a lot if you've never boarded before. start on little hills and try to hit pow runs (thicker/fluffy snow) instead of groomed runs. Falling is much more forgiving in pow for beginners. I see lots of older people on the slopes as snowboarding has become much more popular in recent years. If you dont have a set up, go to your local board/skateboard shop. Oftentimes they have better stocked gear and know what they are talking about, so you can get the right set up. Big stores like REI, zumiez etc always have less customization and employees with no knowledge. A bad set up really makes it tough on a beginner to master the beginning stuff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Nov 2018 22:02:17 No.1405307 Report

Quoted By: >>1405445

>>1404850
yea i regret not spending more on the boots. they were kinda dodgy but survived two seasons until they were fucked.

>>1404856
you can always try asking around some friends if you can borrow some gear for a few runs. just be honest and tell them you wanna try learning to board. it'll give you a couple of days or if you're lucky a couple of weeks while you learn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Nov 2018 22:10:35 No.1405310 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399569
> is it too uncool for an old man
>letting other peoples' opinions affect what you're interested in
i see you're body may have left high school but your mind still hasn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Nov 2018 22:28:56 No.1405316 Report

Quoted By:

I'm damn near 50, learned at 30, and still go every now & then. I'll never qualify for the olympics, but it's fun anyway.

I'm more careful than I used to be, for sure. But if I'm in CO or MT for a weekend, renting gear and just spending a day cruising green & blue routes is a great time.

Also... I've done both skiing & snowboarding, and found snowboarding to be MUCH easier. Night & day, almost. I've heard others say the exact opposite, so YMMV.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Nov 2018 22:37:09 No.1405324 Report

Quoted By:

>>1404178
Maybe if you do it every day every winter for 40 years, you fucking pussy.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 02:45:04 No.1405445 Report

Quoted By: >>1405553 >>1405921

>>1405307
>you can always try asking around some friends if you can borrow some gear for a few runs.
I don't have any friends.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 05:18:10 No.1405530 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399621
is that breckenridge? It looks super familiar but I can't quite place it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 06:04:05 No.1405553 Report

Quoted By:

>>1405445
Ain't that some shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 08:14:14 No.1405606 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399569

old man? 32! you fking bonehead you havent even hit your prime yet. /baka

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 08:21:31 No.1405608 Report

Quoted By: >>1405710 >>1405762

>>1399569
As someone who has skiied half my life and snowboarded the other.

Skiing > Snowboarding.

Snowboarding is a good way to injure yourself, and have fun unstrapping constantly (especially if your tall) and being stuck on flats.
Snowboarding only became popular with the young crowds because it looked cool and is arguably better in parks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 14:23:10 No.1405710 Report

Quoted By:

>>1405608
I haven't exactly run the stats but I've talked to ski patrol and they say that roughly the same number of both come in. Bending down to strap in takes all of 5 seconds. You only get stuck on flats if you haven't properly waxed your board and if you dont make an effort to keep up your speed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 14:34:35 No.1405718 Report

Quoted By: >>1405759

>>1404178
Skiing fucks your knees when you crash.

Snowboarding fucks your knees as a matter of course.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 16:27:57 No.1405759 Report

Quoted By:

>>1405718
It might be time to turn down your DIN

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 16:30:16 No.1405762 Report

Quoted By: >>1405816 >>1405834

>>1405608
Arguably better in parks, guys today on skis can do way gnarlier rail tricks than snowboarders.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 18:17:21 No.1405816 Report

Quoted By:

>>1405762
Yeah watching that in the last Olympics was a trip

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 19:23:11 No.1405834 Report

Quoted By:

>>1405762
Forgot the link
https://youtu.be/94SC2fRxJ2Q

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 22:19:59 No.1405921 Report

Quoted By: >>1405957

>>1405445
if you live near somewhere where people ski then you already have friends. just go to a pre-season hype party in a pub or bar and drink beers with random skiiers. say you're new and go from there.
most friendships in ski towns are as simple as "we both drink beer and ski so we've been best friends for 40 years".
thing is though like 90% of your conversations will end up being about skiing, ski runs, conditions, ski gear, fresh pow and other ski-related shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Nov 2018 23:21:51 No.1405957 Report

Quoted By:

>>1405921
> "we both drink beer and ski so we've been best friends for 40 years"

painfully accurate. add smoking a little grass and you have best friends.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Nov 2018 01:41:55 No.1406028 Report

Quoted By:

>>1399620
This: as well as hitting up ski and snowboard sales, Tonnes of insecure teens and college kids people get a new board every years because of good marketing,
You'll need a solid day of lessons and then 2-3 additions days on the hill before you "get it"
I started at 33, Im 55 now, love it.

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