/out/ - Outdoors » Thread #151262

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 02:31:50 No.151262 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>151325

Friendly /out/ motorhead here, with a reminder to fire up your generator and run it for a bit every month or two.

Don't depend on it for backup, camping, foul weather, whatever if you don't keep things moving in 'em when you're not using it regularly.

So ... Generator thread, I guess.

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 02:37:23 No.151265 Report

Quoted By:

Pop the access covers off.

Check the oil level, make sure there's oil in there and it's within tolerance. Don't want it too low, most gens have a low-oil shutoff, and overfilling it can pressurize the crankcase and push oil into places it doesn't belong.

Pop the air filter out. Is it in good shape? Clean? No mouse nests in the air intake? Good. These are cheap to replace and often overlooked.

Fuel - Looks right? Smells right? Tank topped off? Store the tank full - this gives it less volume to condense water. If it sits for a real long time (over 6mos), siphon it out and run it through your car/truck, then top it off with fresh fuel. Mine runs best with cheap fuel (85oct). It is not a high-performance engine.

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 02:45:59 No.151272 Report

Quoted By:

After you've done a once-over to make sure things are the way they should be, prime the fuel system (see owners manual, mine has a pump in the gas cap) and fire it up. Start with choke on and "eco mode" off. Open the choke valve slow enough the engine doesn't flood or bog down. Once it's running steady, let it warm up for a minute or two before turning "eco mode" on or applying any load to it.

The biggest thing I see people do is fire it up then plug everything in their camper into it without letting it get up to operating temp. This is really hard on the engine and can cause the gen to seize up. Air-cooled motors have a lot of mass on the engine and cylinder that needs to heat up with the piston.

Once it's warmed up, throw some load on it. I have a 600w halogen work light I put on it. The engine will bog initially, then the stepper on the carb opens the throttle and it revs back up to operating speed. I'll run it here for 10mins or so to get the oil up the cam gears and into the valve drive on the engine head.

Shutdown's the same way - Pull all the load off it, turn the "Eco-mode" off and let it run for a minute or two without anything hooked up. This allows the stepper motor on the carb to throttle down to its idle position, making the generator easier to start next time. Once it's stable, use the engine-kill switch and close the fuel petcock (On my generator they're one and the same, there's a switch in the petcock; on a buddy's generator it's a switch on the panel and a fuel valve).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 02:47:50 No.151275 Report

Quoted By: >>151283

Way too heavy to lug anywhere if you're backpacking. I have a capacious lithium ion battery the size of a dictionary. It holds more power than I could ever use and I have a big folding solar array to fill it. Weighs maybe a tenth of what that generator does.

Why would I choose the generator? Sincerely curious if there's some situation I'm overlooking where it'd be preferable. Caving, maybe? But then you'd want something without emissions. What am I missing?

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 02:56:49 No.151277 Report

Quoted By:

Change the oil at least once a year, more if you use it regularly. Spec on mine is every 100 hours of runtime. Adding a motorcycle hour meter is a cheap and easy way to keep track of actual engine runtime.

I put about 58 hours of runtime on mine last year, did an oil change because I hit the 1-year mark. As engine oil is used, it gets acidic and if an engine is used infrequently, that acidic oil degrades seals and mechanisms. If you know an engine is going to be sitting for a long time (dirt bike or lawn mower over the winter, etc) do an oil change in it so it's sitting with fresh oil.

Take care of your equipment and you can depend on it when you need it.

That's all I have for now, discussion and questions welcome.

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 03:07:11 No.151283 Report

Quoted By: >>151469

>>151275
Definitely not for backpacking .... obviously.

I use mine primarily in the winter. Added some living luxuries to my snowmobile trailer, such that I can camp in it in the parking lot on the weekends. The big deep-cycle marine battery powers the furnace and lights, but when it's sub-zero out all day and even colder at night, the furnace has to run quite a bit to keep the trailer warm and the dog happy. So I fire up the generator in the evenings to recharge the house batteries, run my laptop to process photos from the day, and charge camera/radio/GPS.

Solar doesn't have the capacity to fully recharge the trailer battery. Solar's great on RV's in storage to keep the batteries conditioned and counteract the cells self-discharging, but don't rely on it for big-power items (like furnace blowers).

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 03:23:03 No.151303 Report

Quoted By:

Also they're not *just* for camping.

I've used mine to run the 600w work light at a friend's place in the woods, packing things up because of a fire evacuation. The barn we were clearing out didn't have electricity nearby, and car headlights weren't doing the job.

During longer power outages I can hook mine up to the house through a transfer switch and it'll keep the fridge running overnight on a gallon of gas, and a light or two on.

The inverter models (like mine) convert AC off the stator windings to DC, then run that DC current into an inverter to produce 2kW of 120V AC power. Because of that AC>DC>AC conversion, these engines can change the engine RPM and still hold power which allows them to run quietly and more efficiently.
The bigger usually open-framed construction site generators run at a constant 3600 RPM and couple the windings directly to the AC output. As loads are added and removed, the AC output changes dramatically and can damage sensitive electrical devices like battery chargers and computers. These are also much louder and less fuel-efficient since they run at a higher RPM, but because they don't need all the electronics they can provide significantly more power (5kW is the low end for them, some go close to 20kW single-phase, larger trailer-mounted diesel gensets can crank out 100kW+ three-phase multi-voltage power.)

Pic is the engine of the generator. Everything's been removed, this is just the cylinder/piston, head, valve drive (cover removed on the top), and crankcase. Flywheel mounts to the PTO end of the crank, visible. Carb is on top where the studs are sticking off of, crankcase breather that the airbox mounts to in the middle, and the engine oil filler on the bottom.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 03:40:24 No.151325 Report

Quoted By: >>151341 >>151359

>>151262
how is that generac working out for you?

We have 4 of those at work, and 3 of them started every time for a week, then never fucking ran again. never ever ran again.

IMO They're junk, not trying to bash your choice of generator, maybe they're finicky or something, but our honda suitcases run all the time, every time.

or are we doing something wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 03:53:02 No.151339 Report

Quoted By: >>151346 >>151349

Those little honda generators shaped like op's are really nice. It looks like it would be a huge pain in the ass if the rope ever breaks.

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 03:55:42 No.151341 Report

Quoted By: >>151345

>>151325
I bought two of them for $300. Kinda couldn't say no to the offer. Construction company went out of business, they had the two of these and 8 of the bigger 6kW units. I'd have bought everything they had if I didn't have a truck full of shit already.

One ran well, but was -extremely- dirty. Pulled it all apart, cleaned it all up, and it's been my primary gen since. The second looked like it had some oil starvation issues. I can get it to run, but it doesn't run well and I have to fight the stepper from throttle hunting. So it's my parts generator. Next time I feel spunky I'll probably check all the sensors or swap the carb; I swapped inverters between the two so I know it's not the inverter/controller module (whew, $$$).

Like I said, the biggest thing is not letting them warm up before you load it.
Starting/stopping an inductive load like a drill or saw is really hard on the inverter. For this application you're better off going with a 3600RPM gen, even with the eco-mode off you're still putting wildly different current requirements on the inverter assy. (Stopping an inductive load puts a big reverse-current spike on the line, between people using/abusing cheap tools on gensets they don't really understand, I suspect that's what kills a lot of the inverter modules.)

Hondas are great generators, no doubt. But you also pay a lot more for them. Around here the lowest I've seen them go for is $800. When I saw these two come up for $300, and knowing I can do the repairs on it myself, it was kind of a no-brainer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 04:03:35 No.151345 Report

Quoted By: >>151349

>>151341
I would have paid $300 for a pair. I guess I have an easy time saying "fuck you, [employer] shove this generator" since I'm not the one paying for it. I think I'd be willing to put up with taking extra care to not load it when cold, be easy on it, etc.

But yeah, those hondas man, fucking bombproof.

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 04:03:51 No.151346 Report

Quoted By: >>151430

>>151339
Yep, like I said the hondas are -great- units, but overpriced IMO.

The recoil rope actually isn't that bad to replace. Pull the outer shell off, you'll have to pull the panel, fuel tank, and inverter module out but they all pull out once the shell is apart (with connectors/fittings, obviously). The recoil assy is held onto the inner housing with a couple of bolts, pull those out and the assembly/hub/spring/dogs all come right off. (It's the black part on the right side of the motor in the pic. Inverter assy is on the bench.)

Wind the hub against the spring, use a zip-tie to lock the hub to the housing, then tie a length of rope from the hardware store into the hole in the hub. Once its secured and pulled through the housing, cut teh zip tie and the spring force will wrap the rope around the hub.

Protip: Put a knot on the rope just past the handle. 90% of the time the rope breaks at the knot holding it into the handle. With a second knot in place, the rope winds up to the second knot leaving you a nub to pull on to start the engine.

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 04:08:48 No.151349 Report

Quoted By: >>151355

>>151345
If/when I ever kill the two I have to the point where I can't get them to run again, I'll part 'em out on ebay and pick up a Honda. Till then, this cheap generator will do fine.

>>151339
Here's what you'll see with the front panel and outer shell opposite the access panel removed. Push the engine and fuel tank out of the way to disconnect the fuel fitting from the tank (make sure the tank's empty first) and the electrical connectors between the engine/stator and inverter. Pull the fuel tank and inverter out, then pop the recoil assembly off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 04:19:05 No.151355 Report

Quoted By: >>151359

>>151349
>if you ever kill
You seem like you have the patience and know how to tinker with it and make it last a long time, that's totally cool and respectable.

I work for an internet/phone utility company and the generators have to be able to run on 0 notice and flawlessly. I think that a factor may be that some of the dudes just throw them in the back of the truck and let them get rained on for a week before putting them back into the shed (while they're still wet)

tl;dr: take care of your shit i guess

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 04:24:38 No.151359 Report

Quoted By: >>151361 >>151454

>>151325
Also, more out of my own curiosity... but what kind of fuel were you running in there?

Mine runs pretty poorly on 91oct premium fuel. Misfires at higher loads, and when it revs up it blows out a bunch of carbon buildup out the exhaust. Put some 85 octane in there and it runs like a boss all night long.

I'm guessing since its such a low-compression engine the spark plug doesn't fully ignite the mixture making it run rich and push some unburnt fuel out the exhaust. Lower octane is a little more volatile and easier to ignite.

Protip #2: The "best" fuel to run in an engine is the lowest octane that doesn't det (or ping, or knock, or whatever you want to call it).
Higher octane fuel isn't necessarily better fuel. Octane rating is simply gasoline's resistance to preignition.

>>151355
If I didn't do the labor myself, there's no way I could afford to keep and ride a snowmobile and dirt bike. I like to know that my generator's going to start up when I ask it to, and so far it's never failed to perform. A little bit of maintenance (like starting it every month or two) goes a long way towards making that happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 04:27:24 No.151361 Report

Quoted By:

>>151359
I can't speak for the plebs I work with, but I always topped off with 87octane whenever I had to deploy them.

for all I know those guys had 87octane that was sitting in a can for months. We get yelled at HARCDORE if we put anything but the cheapest gas on our company cards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 06:37:16 No.151430 Report

Quoted By: >>151436

>>151346
Protip: Put a knot on the rope just past the handle. 90% of the time the rope breaks at the knot holding it into the handle. With a second knot in place, the rope winds up to the second knot leaving you a nub to pull on to start the engine.

that's pretty good

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 06:44:23 No.151436 Report

Quoted By:

>>151430
It's one of the first things I did on my snowmobile. That little trick saved me a lot of headache on a week-long vacation a few years ago.
(My old sled required you to loosen the engine in order to pull it up far enough that you could get to the bolts on the bottom of the recoil housing and get it off the motor.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 07:58:56 No.151454 Report

Quoted By: >>151460

>>151359
> complains of being poor
> rides based ktm

this is truly having your priorities strait

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 08:18:00 No.151460 Report

Quoted By:

>>151454
What dealers charge for shop labor nowadays... I honestly don't know why more people don't do the work themselves. $100 an hour is pretty excessive when you've got guys with less technical and engine-building experience than I do working on them.

To have the bike's engine torn down and rebuilt, labor alone would be close to $1000. The snowmobile probably twice that.

Tearing the gen down, washing it all up, going through everything, and getting it back into running condition is a weekend project.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 08:49:40 No.151469 Report

Quoted By: >>151476 >>151479

>>151283
>my snowmobile trailer,
Got picks? Have never seen such a thing here.

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 09:01:02 No.151476 Report

Quoted By: >>151479 >>151493

>>151469
Of course I've got pics.

Early spring ride a few years ago. Blew up my sled that Feb, shitty snow year anyways, so out on the bike whenever I could. Still got down below freezing at night, and this particular weekend it was windy as fuck so I was really glad to have a roof over my head (and a furnace in teh wall) that night.

I'll save you the full details but...
-Installed furnace, thermostat, propane line
-Installed 3 duplex 120v outlets inside connected to a "motor base" inlet on the front of the trailer
-Insulation in walls/ceiling/doors, 1" foil-backed iso board, spray-foamed in all the gaps
-All new wiring: brakes, interal lights, external (vehicle) lights, furnace (obviously), trailer harness
-New tires, grind/undercoat steel frame... wireless backup camera on the back... i'm sure there's some other stuff i'm forgetting. Been a few years now.

Anyways... Furnace's combustion air intake and exhaust are in that small section of diamond plate on the top-rear of the trailer's side. Box on the front of the V-nose is for the propane hose/regulator. Motor base is kinda behind the 40lb propane cylinder, yellow extension cabled plugged into it and the generator by the front tire of the truck.

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 09:08:15 No.151479 Report

Quoted By: >>151480

>>151469
>>151476
Inside the trailer's not terribly exciting. Helmet/hanger rack for gear, utility shelf for stuff... Bunch of hooks on the walls for stuff. Seems like trailers never have enough hooks inside.
Thermostat and one of three duplex outlets above my pillow...
Camp cots work great; pack down small.
6x8ft carpet is kinda nice in the morning, floor doesn't get terribly cold (3/4" polybead decking) but that extra bit of cushy helps.
Tote for cooking gear, gearbag by the front door (The drivers-side of the V-nose drops down to unload sleds, whole back door drops down to load sleds).

House battery, CO2/Propane alarm, and trailer's electrical junction box are on the floor/wall between the tote and work light.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 09:13:21 No.151480 Report

Quoted By: >>151485

>>151479
its like a stealth mini house. I gotta say, bretty baws. do you work in the oil industry or something?

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 09:27:37 No.151485 Report

Quoted By:

>>151480
Engineer, electrical/test.

And yeah, I'm real happy with the way the trailer turned out. I can easily go 2 or 3 days completely off-the-grid with this setup. If I wasn't burning 8+ gallons of fuel through the sled every day, and packed a bigger cooler with some more food, I have no doubt I could go even longer.

Mule

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Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 09:42:03 No.151488 Report

Quoted By: >>152324

Back to the generator, since I just ran across this shot... Gasoline.
Yeah, i'm on /diy/ a bit too.
Some fittings from the hardware store, fuel/utility jug, tygon tubing from McMaster, and a lawnmower gas cap... extended-run fuel tank.

With the gallon on-board, plus 6 in the jug, this will run the entire weekend without having to refill it. Set it up behind the trailer or up by the truck, hook everything up, and it'll run as long as I need it to without having to screw around with fuel.

As long as everything's sealed up except for the vent on the aux. jug, the vacuum from the generator's fuel pump will pull gasoline into the on-board tank.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 01 Jul 2013 10:04:09 No.151493 Report

Quoted By: >>151497

>>151476
And here was me thinking it was a trailer you tow WITH the snowmobile.

Mule

Mule Mon 01 Jul 2013 10:10:41 No.151497 Report

Quoted By:

>>151493
ah, nope.

Know a guy who builds rescue sleds for search&rescue, utility, etc for towing behind a snowmobile though. More for the wide-track utility sleds, not the mountain sleds. They're different like a pickup truck to a ferrari.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Jul 2013 14:13:37 No.152324 Report

Quoted By: >>152432

>>151488

Hey Mule, are you still selling your GPS?

Mule

Mule Tue 02 Jul 2013 19:17:48 No.152432 Report

Quoted By: >>152499

>>152324
Listed on fleabay; auction closes this weekend.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 02 Jul 2013 21:11:07 No.152499 Report

Quoted By: >>152528

>>152432

Can you post a link?

Mule

Mule Tue 02 Jul 2013 22:15:37 No.152528 Report

Quoted By:

>>152499
60csx with citynav and ram mount. Shouldn't be too hard to findd.

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