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Stoves

Anonymous Fri 08 May 2020 23:03:28 No.1757793 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1757806 >>1757887 >>1757995 >>1758065 >>1758137 >>1758481 >>1758621 >>1758633 >>1758649 >>1759064 >>1765686 >>1766032 >>1766094

I want a non gas canister stove so I ended up reading about the Svea123R. They say that while it can burn both you should really use coleman fuel over regular pump station unleaded gas but where I live the first isn't even sold. Has anyone used this stove with regular gas? Any advice to give?

Else has anyone got other stoves to recommend, maybe designed for kerosene instead?

>inb4 campfire bro
It's forbidden everywhere here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 May 2020 23:09:59 No.1757797 Report

Quoted By: >>1757804 >>1765683

It might be sold as white gas (not white spirit, that's something else) or naphtha.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 May 2020 23:20:44 No.1757804 Report

Quoted By: >>1758485

>>1757797
I guess I could import it but at around 30€/l that's a big fat no from me.

What I read is that using pump station gas will eventually clog the stove because of the additives they put in it, but if someone can deny that or has found a way to reliably unclog it (e.g. bathing the stove in some solvent every once in a while) then I want to know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 May 2020 23:21:15 No.1757806 Report

Quoted By: >>1757807

>>1757793
gas stoves work but you can taste it
great for an army trying to keep supply simple but probably not the best choice unless that's the only thing you have
what made decide against alcohol?
it's cheap
stoves are cheap

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 May 2020 23:25:56 No.1757807 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757806
>what made decide against alcohol?
No decision made yet, that's why I asked for other stoves as well. I will have a second look at alcohol stoves then.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 08 May 2020 23:37:02 No.1757812 Report

Quoted By: >>1764297

I have one of these and it's been pretty reliable, the burn's pretty consistent, boils nice n quick

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 00:06:21 No.1757833 Report

Quoted By: >>1757978

I used one of those for years with regular gas and always had problems with clogging. They’re kind of crazy to start as well with pouring fuel into the ring and lighting it. When they really get roaring they’re hard to shut off as well. Is there a better stove of this style? Mine worked ok MOST of the time but was always kind of janky.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 01:12:09 No.1757887 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757793
You could probably use regular gas, but make sure you burn through it all when you're done. regular gas can go bad in just a few weeks unless it's stabilized and it forms almost a shellac inside the orifices, this is what "kills" most neglected small engines. Diesel fuel will be the equivalent of kerosene. I would try to use something like that instead.

These stoves are designed to be fuel flexible, because they're used in backwoods shitholes. I wouldn't have a worry about it using whatever fuel you have available but I would expect there may be some quirks depending what it is

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 04:14:32 No.1757978 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757833
It's a 65 year old design. I don't really have any experience with them (I'm usually a campfire and Trangia guy), but more modern multifuel stoves do exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 04:33:47 No.1757993 Report

Quoted By:

I just use that MSR international liquid stove. Works with lots of fuels

New Zealand

New Zealand Sat 09 May 2020 04:38:28 No.1757995 Report

Quoted By: >>1758064

>>1757793
MSR whisperlite multi fuel.
Nothing can beat it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:11:31 No.1758064 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757995
Hell yeah dude

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:19:26 No.1758065 Report

Quoted By: >>1758066

>>1757793

Try any of the manually pressurized multi-fuel burners from brand names?

Multi-fuel burners are great for remote places where availability of a single fuel type is not certain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:21:14 No.1758066 Report

Quoted By: >>1758070

>>1758065

>The Multifuel burner 750001 X2 is a fast and safe alternative and especially suitable for extreme weather conditions, eg. very low temperatures. The multi-fuel burner fits all Trangia storm cookers series 25+27. A somewhat more complicated device to use than other burners because preheating and regular maintenance are required. This burner can also be used with gas. Fits all propane / butane gas containers with threaded valves that meet the standard EN417, which is an international standard and found worldwide. Primus, MSR, Optimus, Jet boil are some examples on brands for gas canisters.

>First choice of fuel to use should be cartridge gas or high quality fuel such as white gas, alkylate petrol or Primus Powerfuel. These fuels have the relatively highest energy content, burn very cleanly and require least cleansing and maintenance. Kerosene and diesel should only be used in absolute emergency and require a lot of cleaning. Ordinary 95 octane gasoline should not be used at all. Please note the quality of these fuels varies all over the world.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:25:35 No.1758070 Report

Quoted By:

>>1758066

Primus Multifuel (that first one was Trangia):

>MultiFuel is a sturdy stove that works with gas, gasoline/petrol, diesel, kerosene and even aviation fuel. It produces a powerful flame that works very well even under extreme weather conditions. The new pot supports (grids) locks securely in the unfolded position and folds tighter, making the stove more compact when stuffed away. The jets are clearly marked for each fuel type and attached to the pot supports (grids) so that they are never lost. MultiFuel III comes with an ErgoPump™, a multi-tool, a nylon bag, a windscreen and a heat reflector.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:34:22 No.1758074 Report

Quoted By:

And here's more about fuels:

https://www.msrgear.com/blog/liquid-fuel-stoves-101-choosing-the-right-fuel-for-your-liquid-fuel-stove/

White Gas (Naphtha)

White gas (aka “naphtha,” “100% light hydro treated distillate,” or “Coleman Fuel”) is the first choice for most people in North America whether they’re headed out for a summer weekend or for a month-long winter expedition in the Alaska Range. Almost any pressurized-type liquid fuel stove will run well on white gas. Because this fuel burns cleaner than most others and because it evaporates (vaporizes) at a lower temperature, it makes starting your stove an easier, cleaner, and overall more pleasant experience. It also won’t leave as much of a nasty residue or odor if you have a spill.

You might hear white gas referred to generically as “Coleman Fuel”. Not all brands are identical, but any stove that runs on white gas should burn Coleman fuel without issue. MSR offers a unique blend of white gas called SuperFuel. It is more refined and burns cleaner than almost any other white gas on the market. It is free of additives and so reduces fuel line clogs and other stove maintenance.

Unless you’re going through gallons of fuel, it is best to buy white gas in smaller containers, like MSR SuperFuel. Once you open the container and expose it to air, the fuel starts to degrade. If you don’t get out that often, a gallon container of Coleman fuel will degrade and possibly build up shellac that will clog your stove or stove pump filters.

Although white gas is similar to automotive gasoline, these two fuels are quite different and are not necessarily interchangeable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:35:29 No.1758075 Report

Quoted By:

Kerosene

The World Traveler’s choice, you’ll be able to find kerosene in even the most remote corners of the globe. It’s inexpensive and widely available, but it is also dirty, stinky, and more difficult to light. It can be highly variable—something labeled “kerosene” in Canada is likely to differ a lot in quality and performance from “kerosene” in Bangladesh. Fuels in some parts of the world are dirtier and less refined than elsewhere. Be sure you’re familiar with the maintenance procedures for your particular stove—there’s a good chance the fuel you bought from a local merchant on the side of the road out of an old oil drum will burn dirtier than you expected, and will clog your stove faster than you’d like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:36:43 No.1758076 Report

Quoted By:

Diesel

Some love it, most hate it. Diesel is very dirty, has a strong and pervasive odor, is difficult to light, and is more likely to cause your stove to flare up. But it is also inexpensive and requires less energy to refine from crude oil, so it has a positive environmental story to be told. Several multi-fuel stoves that will run white gas and kerosene will not run diesel, however, so be sure to check the manufacturer’s approved fuel types before you find yourself twenty miles from the nearest road with a fuel you can’t use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:37:46 No.1758077 Report

Quoted By: >>1762947

Automotive Gasoline (petrol)

Consider this a fuel of last resort. As stated above, most stoves capable of burning white gas can also burn gasoline, but this fuel has some downsides of which you’ll want to beware. Gasoline contains additives designed to make car engines run smoother, but these additives can harm the seals in your stove’s pump and fuel line, making them harder and more prone to leaking. Gasoline will also produce more smoke and fumes than white gas. Further, what you buy at the pump might have upwards of 25% ethanol mixed in. Ethanol is an alcohol; in low percentage mixtures it may not make a big difference in how your stove burns, but it can cause pitting corrosion in aluminum fuel bottles. If you do use gasoline with ethanol, don’t leave it in your fuel bottle for long-term storage.

Contrary to popular belief it’s usually best to buy the lowest grade of auto gas, not the highest. Lower grades have fewer additives and therefore often behave better in backpacking stoves where we are superheating the fuel. This superheating causes additives and impurities to clog the fuel line and jet. Also, auto gas varies since the additives and mixture changes regionally as well as seasonally. So the gas you buy in Colorado in winter is different than what you get in the summer and is different again from what you might find in Arizona or California.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:41:33 No.1758081 Report

Quoted By:

Denatured Alcohol

Go to most any backpacking blog, and you’re likely to hear about denatured alcohol as a cooking fuel. Some ultralight backpacking enthusiasts build their own alcohol burners and use them successfully. We’ll discuss the pros and cons of these stoves in a separate article. It’s important to note that most pressurized-type liquid fuel backpacking stoves will not operate safely on alcohol. Again, read those manuals.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 06:43:18 No.1758083 Report

Quoted By:

Alternative liquid fuels

There are many other fuels out there, some of which could get you by in a pinch and some of which probably won’t work at all. Some fuels like certain grades of aviation gasoline (“avgas”) and jet fuel are similar to more common fuels like automotive gasoline (often with lead additive) or kerosene, and may work okay in your stove. Other fuels, such as some grades of biodiesel or pure plant oils, are less likely to give you a good experience. Most manufacturers do not suggest using these alternative fuels, but you can read about the experiences others have had with a quick online search.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 08:00:22 No.1758112 Report

Quoted By: >>1758121

Speaking of stoves, what are you guys thoughts on the Jetboil Minimo? Considering it for my outings to replace a more barebones one

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 08:35:42 No.1758121 Report

Quoted By: >>1758142

>>1758112
It has that Jetboil quality. Its shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 09:02:43 No.1758137 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757793
Why Gasoline? Stoves designed for gasoline (or kerosene, for that matter) are rather expensive because they need to have a pump and be able to withstand the pressure.
Unless you're out in temperatures far below freezing, a simple ethanol stove works just as well. Those can be had for ~5€ from brand name manufacturers (ex. esbit), or for a few cents from chinese manufacturers. Also, as they burn just about any alcohol including methanol, fuel is cheap (or even free, if you know a moonshiner).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 09:06:56 No.1758142 Report

Quoted By: >>1758356

>>1758121
Good to know. What do you recommend?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 15:17:14 No.1758356 Report

Quoted By: >>1758359

>>1758142
do you want to cook or just use freeze dried food? Alpine or lightwight backpacking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 15:20:51 No.1758359 Report

Quoted By: >>1758391

>>1758356
Lightweight backpacking, I'll cook occasionally but it will mostly be for quick and dirty meals such as soup, freeze dried food or instant noodles, and roast some coffee beans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 16:09:49 No.1758391 Report

Quoted By: >>1758408

>>1758359
>I'll cook occasionally but it will mostly
Okay, then you are after a canister stove.

Check out either the GSI Pinnacle Stove
https://gsioutdoors.com/pinnacle-canister-stove.html

Or if you have cash to burn and you want the best
https://sotooutdoors.com/product/windmaster-new/

If you were more serious about cooking look into a remote canister stove.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 16:30:29 No.1758408 Report

Quoted By:

>>1758391
Thanks dude

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 18:16:09 No.1758481 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757793
Hey OP, you can probably still get it anyway. Coleman fuel = white gas = naptha = zippo fuel. Look for lighter fluid for wick-based cigarette lighters, that'll do the trick. US brands are Zippo and Ronsonol - what country are you in? Also charcoal lighter fluid may work as well.

I have one of those stoves and they're fucking great, would recommend.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 18:21:23 No.1758485 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757804
you should be able to find naptha at a home depot, ace hardware or any tractor supply store. not a hard find even in rural areas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 21:07:48 No.1758574 Report

Quoted By: >>1758739

What are good European gas stoves brands? Most of the recommendations here are in sweet dollars but basically unsourceable here (and import tax and delivery fee are so high it's not worth it)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 22:08:30 No.1758621 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757793
If you're hiking in the woods to begin with you could use a woodgas stove. They produce significantly less smoke than a traditional campfire and fuel is all around you

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 22:36:40 No.1758633 Report

Quoted By: >>1761891 >>1762951

>>1757793
kerosene my friend (aka liquid paraffin)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 22:49:09 No.1758641 Report

Quoted By:

make your own coleman fuel from unleaded gas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN-U5mepbmk

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 May 2020 22:55:48 No.1758649 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757793
The msr whisperlite international is exactly what you need.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 00:36:01 No.1758739 Report

Quoted By:

>>1758574
Bump for interest

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 13:02:28 No.1759064 Report

Quoted By: >>1759516 >>1762963

>>1757793
Alcohol stoves - I want to go lighter but stick to alcohol (fuel is everywhere, I can bring as much or little as I need, weight goes down as I burn more fuel).

I have a trangia kit like the one in the picture, it's obviously heavy, but it works reliably.

I tried building a tuna can stove (punch two rows of holes in an empty tuna can) but it keeps snuffing out, even with a windscreen. Have tried 4-5 times and never managed to get a boil.

So what are some in-between solutions I could try? I'm thinking:
- keep the trangia burner
- get a standalone pot stand
- get a smaller cook pot (the frying pan lid alone is heavy af)

How does this sound? Any experience with using the trangia burner standalone? What add-on products (stands etc) would you recommend?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 00:23:24 No.1759516 Report

Quoted By: >>1759736

>>1759064
>works reliably.
Except in:
-Cold weather
-High Elevations
-Windy Environments

Meme stove is meme.

>So what are some in-between solutions I could try?
There are a lot of rocket stoves that act as shrouds that are trangia/alcohol stove compatable (Solostove) as well as twig stoves (Buchbox etc)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 May 2020 05:26:43 No.1759736 Report

Quoted By:

>>1759516
The kit in that picture is a storm stove. The more wind there is the hotter it burns.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 13 May 2020 12:57:25 No.1761891 Report

Quoted By: >>1762953

>>1758633
My man

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 May 2020 08:49:08 No.1762947 Report

Quoted By:

>>1758077
>Further, what you buy at the pump might have upwards of 25% ethanol mixed in.

This is total horseshit, E10 is common, E15 (or 85) is barely being introduced in most states still. Mixtures beyond this have to be specially marketed since they are basically non functional in older vehicles. I wouldn't take advice from someone implying that you "might" run into 25 percent ethanol gasoline. It's labeled on the pump regardless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 May 2020 08:54:40 No.1762951 Report

Quoted By:

>>1758633
Ok....this pic made my day. Much appreciated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 May 2020 08:55:47 No.1762953 Report

Quoted By:

>>1761891
This too

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 May 2020 09:43:13 No.1762963 Report

Quoted By: >>1763024

>>1759064
>He fell for the trangia meme
Why would you buy an overpriced ripoff of the esbit design?
>tuna can stove
What are you using for wick? how are you preheating (if you aren't, make a dent in the top inside the ring of holes, fill with ethanol and light)?
>Any experience with using the trangia burner standalone?
Well, with the esbit stove, which is identical except for the different logo and lower price. Works well with both ethanol and cleaning gasoline.
>stands
For a potstand, the most sensible thing is to get something like the trangia triangle (or make it yourself, you only need some thin aluminium sheet and sheet metal scissors). That's what I did, and it works without any problems so far.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 14 May 2020 12:33:28 No.1763024 Report

Quoted By: >>1763053

>>1762963
>ripoff of the esbit design
I know right can you believe some Japanese guy copied the 4chan code and set up a clone site in Japanese?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 May 2020 13:26:08 No.1763053 Report

Quoted By: >>1763122

>>1763024
Dude, Trangia only started producing their moder ethanol stoves in 1951 (https://trangia.se/en/our-history/).
Esbit (still known as Schumm back then) has been building them since the 30s, and there have been ripoffs ever since. For example, I inherited one from my grandfather that has the 3rd reich "D.R.G.M." patent mark on it. Except for having a bigger tank, it's identical to modern trangia stoves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 May 2020 15:31:56 No.1763122 Report

Quoted By:

>>1763053
Esbit made alcohol stoves in the 30s? I'd like to see a source on that. And photos of that WWII German alcohol stove, I thought they used solid fuel tablets?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 14 May 2020 23:54:22 No.1763533 Report

Quoted By: >>1763894

Looking for a nice comfy wood stove, are Lixada stoves any good?
Other recommendations?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 07:04:20 No.1763894 Report

Quoted By: >>1763907

>>1763533
Lixada, Tomshoo and all the other aliexpress ones are stamped out on the same production line. They're fine.
Get a titanium one, the weight savings are very perceptible and the price difference is pocket change for something that will last forever unless you break it or lose it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 07:37:46 No.1763907 Report

Quoted By: >>1763912

>>1763894
Thanks! What are the advantages and disadvantages of the square stoves vs the round ones? The square ones can pack smaller as you can put all the metal sheets on top of each other in a small bag, but what about combustion or efficiency?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 07:46:29 No.1763912 Report

Quoted By: >>1764016 >>1765673

>>1763907
>combustion or efficiency?
Why do you care, it's fire under a pot and the fuel's free. Mine boils a liter of water in under 10 minutes on a few handfuls of twigs, that's all I ask of it. Also works as a wind shield for a gas stove, I don't know if you could adapt a round one for this purpose.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 11:22:15 No.1764016 Report

Quoted By: >>1764079

>>1763912
Getting more heat out of less wood is always good, sure I could keep feeding the stove every couple minutes but if there's another option why wouldn't I take it?
Wind shield part is rather cool, I think it could work for the round one but the square should be better in that regard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 13:06:34 No.1764079 Report

Quoted By: >>1764084

>>1764016
I watched some youtube reviews of this one and it didn't look too impressive.
>tall and unstable
>finicky to assemble
>NOT a gasifier stove
But I don't have first hand experience so I can't definitively declare that it sucks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 13:16:21 No.1764084 Report

Quoted By: >>1764095

>>1764079
Seen some as well
>unstable
Seems true, that's really bad.
>finicky to assemble
Only seen a couple retards say that, mentioning that there was no instructions. Meanwhile on that Chinese one you've got instructions and it literally comes together in 2 seconds, you have three pieces so it's not rocket science. I've seen that with earlier models the dimensions were not right but it seems fixed now.
>NOT a gasifier stove
True, you can remediate this by carrying an extra pierced plate that you drop down at the bottom of the combustion chamber, to reduce the size of the airholes. Apparently this also alleviates the problem of the original TOAKS design choking after a while due to the ash clogging the airholes.
I personally don't know about gasifier stoves, what advantages do they offer?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 13:27:18 No.1764095 Report

Quoted By: >>1765557

>>1764084
Purportedly wood gas stoves create less smoke (for that stealth aspect) and are more fuel efficient. From my understanding they are designed to burn top to bottom, so I don't know what lighting them in wet conditions looks like or if you can add more fuel halfway through cooking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 17:08:28 No.1764297 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757812
I'll second these, they are very simple too. It takes less than a minute to set up and get going.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 17:33:36 No.1764315 Report

Quoted By:

Are there canister stove kits that I could boil water, make coffee but than also do a fish fry in? Can I cheap out or are they prone to failure?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 18:14:20 No.1764354 Report

Quoted By:

Anybody else own a BioLite stove? I fucking love mine. Not compact or light, but for where I live (southeast) it's great. Plenty of small sticks and such. Never worrying about fuel is worth it, imo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 21:01:25 No.1765557 Report

Quoted By:

>>1764095
Thanks anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 22:48:02 No.1765673 Report

Quoted By: >>1766038

>>1763912
What are the modifications you did to this? I want to be able to bbq with one too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 22:57:29 No.1765683 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757797
isn't white gas just kerosene?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 23:02:29 No.1765686 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757793
Is a diy wood stove a bad idea?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8he7txE6uLw

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 23:23:49 No.1765693 Report

Quoted By:

If your looking for something that runs on all kinds of shit look at the Brunton optimus nova's. I got one when I first got into backpacking and bought a bunch of heavy shit I really didn't need. Dont get me wrong its a fucking great stove, tried and true but heavy if you start trying to shave weight. An alcohol stove is all I've ever needed (aside from fires) for my meals.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 07:58:29 No.1766032 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757793

This one's pretty good. (Link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B4L1BPQ?tag=campstovemodels-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&keywords=kerosene%20camp%20stove)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 08:13:15 No.1766038 Report

Quoted By:

>>1765673
Steel mesh around the floor so coals don't fall through it, with this and the aluminum tray you can feasibly use it on a wooden table without damaging it.
The perforated piece of steel is from a tea tin, I cut it out myself. Prevents open flames from touching whatever I'm grilling (mostly), also reduces the heat output and makes it more even, which helps with frying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 11:46:11 No.1766094 Report

Quoted By:

>>1757793
I recently gifted myself an Optimus Multifuel. It's capable of burning pretty much anything liquid and does not require changing of a valve. I already have different stoves, penny stoves, gas stoves, oil stoves, different sizes... I wanted one that will work for the whole family cook out and be easy to use in the field (as in you pour what you have and go).

Considerations were:
*ease of use - also for my family members
*ability to burn different fuels - I already have other stoves.

I like it. A lot.

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