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Every week seems like someone posts a new thread asking what dog they should get to hunt what. Below is the /out/ approved tier list of hunting dogs and their purpose.
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Continued because fuck copy and paste
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My biggest complaint about German Shorthaired Pointers is their biddability is generally lacking.
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>>1984504 All pointing breeds are somewhat known for being independent. The nature of their hunting style requires it. That said biddability has a lot more nurture involved than nature. A well disciplined and well trained dog will obey. German Pointers are probably the smartest of all the breeds listed but if you want a dog to outright enjoy being told what to do a lab or golden is probably your best bet. German Pointers are probably the best “out of the box” all around hunting breeds for a novice to not screw up. Hence the popularity.
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>tfw your labs hunt and flush better than a lot of spaniels you see
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>>1984587 Pretty common. Spaniels are losing out on popularity. Pretty much everything they can do a lab can do and a lot of them can do it better. Chasing a phez up in the air isn’t really difficult. A 25lbs dog trying to retrieve a goose though...
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>>1984504 That’s why I got a Vizsla. This dude loves to work for me.
Anyone in NAVHDA?
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>>1984759 Used to be when I was in GSPs. I know theres another anon on this board that trains dogs for NAVDHA. I got into NSTRA and horseback trials a bit as well. Prefer to just hunt my dogs now. Much more relaxing and enjoyable lol.
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>>1984759 Hows your V run anyway? Seen a lot of them that are boot polishers and seem to be softer tempered than the German dogs. Definitely become more popular in the last few years.
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Chesapeake lab here. He is a fetching machine but I can’t get him to not sperg out when I get ready to take the shot. Starts barking like crazy anytime the gun comes out. What do?
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>>1984808 Drills. Just fake his ass out repeatedly. Throwing a bark collar on him and readying the gun over and over until he chills should do the trick.. Older it gets the harder it will be. Chessies are known to be pretty hard headed to begin with.
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>>1984338 Any reason to put poodle in the shit tier for fowl? I was looking at a standard poodle as they apparently take to training very well.
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>>1984853 Poodles are smart and trainable but are almost exclusively show bred these days, lack the thick double coats of the Lab and Chessie, and are known to have aggression issues. There are maybe like ten “field bred” poodle litters a year in the US. Most of which are just AKC bench breeders trying to market their dogs as dual champions by hanging the easiest to obtain ribbon they can on their dogs.
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>>1984853 Also if I’m being honest smarts isn’t necessarily the best trait for a waterfowl dog. Labs and Chessies are great waterfowl retrievers but it isn’t just their thick coats that make them good at it it’s their thick ass heads. A smart dog is generally going to become apprehensive at the idea of diving into icy water, beating thick brush, or getting its ass whipped by a hog. A tough dog will do all those things but won’t be maneuvering a scent cone, identifying a good objective habitat, or learning a wide array of commands.
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Springers and cockers were ruined by the show ring, almost every American line has spaniel rage/epilepsy running through it because every dipshit in America bred to like 3 sires in the 70s.
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>>1984905 English Springers are generally fine. Welsh are an easier sell to a wife but forest ponies either hunt or they dont. Definitely shit tier breed. English Cockers still have some good field lines. American Cockers are absolute trash though and definition of shit tier.
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>>1984875 I can respect the "fuck AKC" attitude, given that their pressure is what created the toy poodle breed, but that doesn't necessarily mean standard poodles are a bad hunting breed. The championship ad monkeys are in every breed of dog though, it's not like it's any more prevalent in poodles than it is in German wirehairs, griffon pointing dogs, or labs.
>>1984880 I can see that, but you can train them to be okay with it if you reward them appropriately. The breed itself is pretty good from a trainability standpoint, which I think overcomes the "hey this is fucking gay" attitude about having to do the bitch work when hunting.
Anonymous
So I've been looking at Nova Scotia Duck tollers. Obviously they're pretty well bred for waterfowl but my main interest would be training it as a squirrel dog, I have no dog training experience at all. Is this a stupid undertaking? What are some good resources for learning about the process?
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>>1984933 Yeah fuck bench breeders but I am going to have to strongly disagree on the amount of ribbon hanging going on between the breeds. Organizations like American Field, Field Dog Stud Book, etc generally do not give a flying fuck about conformation. The drathaar guys are the most strict about it but they’re absolute nazis about everything and consistently produce imo the most versatile and field oriented hunting dogs in the world. Theres a huge difference between that and taking your bench bred setter and putting it in a local trial or test with a half dozen other dogs and claiming your dog is a champion to double its stud price.
As far as choosing a poodle I’ll be honest man. I’m not trying to piss in your cheerios but I can bring up a million pics of faggots with poodles to bash them though frankly thats not really the point I was trying to make. In all honesty I would like a hypoallergenic retriever to help expand the number of people that can get into the sport but the poodle of today and the poodle of 150 years ago are simply different breeds. I wouldn’t expect a modern poodle to even be consistently soft mouthed let alone hold up to ice cold water like a lab or chessy or even be derpy enough to enjoy diving into thorns and cattails after pheasant like a golden. Retrieving is generally the easiest base task of a hunting dog though and I’ve seen German Shepherds and Pitbulls force fetched before. It can be done but unless your girl is like adamant about getting one or you are allergic I am always going to advise a lab, chessie, and golden in that order above a poodle. When I start seeing them consistently place in reputable trials, mark, and beat brush like a savage I will happily upgrade them. Until then I have to keep them shit tier.
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>>1984935 You would be surprised.
Tollers have kind of been taken over by the show people and are notoriously hard mouthed. I’ve seen people use them as retrievers in the past but expect a slow process. As far as using it to chase squirrels that is honestly a very easy process as most dogs will just do that naturally. Just encourage the behavior. I wouldn’t expect the dog to legitimately tree a squirrel but you can trap one and hang it in a tree from a rope. Let the dog chase it and make a big ruckus encouraging it to get excited. Pull the rope and keep it out of their reach. Or just buy an already trained squirrel dog. They are pretty cheap. Like few hundred bucks cheap.
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>>1984338 Here is my English Setters. Just took this today. Love the breed. That is all I will ever have
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>>1985075 Good looking dogs. Rymans? Any names in the pedigree worth mentioning?
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>>1985051 Fair enough. My other considerations were a wirehair or Brittany. I have limited experience training up a dedicated hunting dog (only really taught house pets), and I've heard they're kind of a bitch to teach if you haven't done advanced training.
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>>1985093 Depends on what you want to hunt. Both will point upland birds. Wirehair is going to be the better retriever in general. Probably more of a “born broke” type of dog as well. Aggression towards other critters like cats you don’t want them to go after can be a problem. Brittanys are generally softer natured. Sometimes too soft. Anxiety and nervous pissing is an equally obnoxious problem to cat chasing in my opinion. I usually suggest German Pointers for novice trainers because they’re typically the most forgiving of mistakes and smart enough to get the gist of what you want and figure out the rest.
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>>1985087 Yeah they are Ramans! Not many know about that bloodline
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>>1985135 And thats a damn shame. Excellent grouse dogs and the perttiest gundogs imo.
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>>1985149 And they are super good pets too! Like in the house all they do is lay around. I would recommend them to anyone. Them right now.
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>>1985170 Definition of classy. Top Tier. I’m a Pointer man myself but I like my dogs hyper and autistic. Rymans are what most foot hunters typically want though. A family dog that will go out and work at a comfortable pace, find birds, and then look damn good laying by the fireplace.
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>>1984338 German Shorthaired Pointers are pretty top tier for upland birds. There's even one in the OP image.
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>>1984679 To be fair, this is in the UK. The situation with working spaniels over here isn't as bad as the states. People buy them over labs a lot because they're the OG English dog too. Still a huge number of labs on the driven scene though.
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>>1984338 more like LARP dogs
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>>1985296 Oh yeah Americans and Brits have very different tastes in dogs. Scotland is OG uplander clay
>>1985300 Get AIDS
Anonymous
Concidering getting a beagle for hunting purposes. But I really wonder how they are as family dogs, and if they are dumb as fuck/hard to train (as I've been told they can be). Anyone with a beagle that could talk from their experience?
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>>1984338 I'm thinking of getting a dog and am interested in starting hunting. Should i get into hunting first or get the dog or does it matter. I heard you should start training your dog for hunting at young age so i'm hesitant of getting the dog before i'm moving.
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>>1985570 Havent owned one but known plenty. Pretty dopey and thick headed but not that hard to train for chasing rabbits. Just need the ecollar and to master recall with it. Beyond that its mostly just exposure to game and gunfire. Expect barking.
>>1985592 Depends. You don’t want to get a hunting dog if you aren’t gonna remain interested in hunting. You will generally enjoy hunting behind a dog and moving around actively searching for game than just sitting around waiting and freezing your balls off. I usually suggest people try hunting first to see if they are into it but a dog is also a great motivator. Working my dogs is my primary motivation at least. A big handsome pointer eating up ground and then slamming on point is just a pretty sight. Birds taste great too. Training generally starts young yes. A lot of people will wait until a dog is a year old before serious training begins but mine get exposure to game, gunfire, collar, and the elements from day one. If you are moving I would have to know details before providing advice. What is it you are wanting to hunt? Where are you moving? What kind of accommodations are you moving into? Apartment? Home? Country? Suburbs?
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>>1985515 You shouldn't discount the grouse moors in England either. I grew up in Angus on the edge of a big moor but I'm now working on an estate in England with something like 20,000 acres of heather moor and God damn, if you wanted to shoot red grouse, snipe and woodcock over pointers you'd be in a little slice of heaven.
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>>1985681 Damn 20k? I thought yall mostly had 40-200 acre plots in the south?
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>>1984765 GSPs dominate the NAVDHA game. They make up like 50% of my chapter. I would have gotten one, but Viszlas are just so damn handsome. I do the NAVDHA thing as a way to keep my dog sharp in the off season. I look at it as a bar to aspire towards and as a community to network with.
>>1984766 I’ve also heard that Vs can be soft. I didn’t get that. I’ve shocked my dog on full power and watched him twitch as he chased a rabbit till it went to ground. Thankfully I’ve broke him of that habit, and now points every thing. I had a pro-trainer who was impressed enough with my dog to tell me that this will be the dog that I judge all others against. Which is great cause I got my dog from a backyard breeder who just wanted to make some money off of their Vs.
>how does your V range? In open prairie he works out to 200 yards. In the woods he works closer. And he will check in with me about every 2 minutes. Yesterday I went scaled quail hunting, I walked 6 miles and he did 18, he covers massive ground.
Idk why everyone say the Drahthaar is the chad of the versatile dog world.
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>>1985999 Because those dudes are absolute nazis about their breeding standards. Hard to argue with the results. They follow the German doctrine of breeding and cull pretty ruthlessly. Not the behind the kennel way like the old timers did but their club won’t register a litter unless the dam and sire meet their relatively strict standards. AKC breeders can be pretty clownish in their form over function philosophy. Even us AF guys don’t really give a shit about conformation. Seems like the draht, kurz, and brittany guys strike the best balance between the two. The former two being more versatile and the draht having the more functional coat. Thats the logic behind the reputation imo.
Glad to hear the Vs doing better. They are a good deal more aesthetic than a GWP lol. Sounds like you got a great one. When I was in NAVDHA we only had two in our club and they were both boot polishers. That was when I learned you can reel a horizon chasing dog in but getting a closer hunting dog to range out is a bigger challenge.
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>>1984338 Loads of lurcher type crosses here in the UK. A friend of my gf was walking her three whippet crosses when they took off after a deer. By the time she found them they'd caught, killed and eaten it with basically only the head of the deer still more or less intact.
Great dogs. Perfectly calm and gentle 99% of the time, until they spot something they want to chase, at which point they instantly transform into a horrifying 40mph death machine.
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>>1986450 Wooosh. The joke was my V was jumping a Draht. And yeah, those guys are nazis about their dogs. That’s why the breed is so good. I’m strongly considering adding one to my string.
