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Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 09:51:40 No.2358353 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>2358357 >>2360216 >>2362779

Anyone have experience with permaculture in a Med dry environment (xeroscaping)?

Pic related is my land. I just don’t know how to plan out where to plant things, and I feel like that's placement is important given it's going to be a lifelong project

End goal is an edible forrest with a small stone path and benches inside

Native plants are:
>fennel
>fig trees
>olive trees
>rosemary
>castor beans
>anise
>hardy wild pear trees (that I can graft regular pairs on)
>squills
>sage
>jerusalem sage
>prickly pear cactus
>thyme

I am 25 so I have time to plant trees and wait

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 10:12:43 No.2358357 Report

Quoted By: >>2358366 >>2360214

>>2358353
Does it works? I first want to buy a book to understand better the method. But i need to know is permaculture a bulltshit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 10:34:43 No.2358363 Report

Quoted By: >>2358368

Layout is srs business.
Go to the pub and ask people, you'll be listening for days but maybe you should.

Soil quality can be hard to improve in these climates, wind breaks near the sea can be tricky.

I know some people from the region and can put a few questions to them for you.

.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 10:45:23 No.2358366 Report

Quoted By:

>>2358357
Why would it be bullshit? It’s what is the anti of bullshit. the name is kind of BS, but in reality all it is is agriculture without monoculture, shaping a forrest or such in a way that technically could have happened naturally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 10:45:55 No.2358367 Report

Quoted By:

Also, start taking soil samples and rain/ wind measurements.
This is foundational and only an inbred would fail to do this.

I imagine you will want to plant a hedge row.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 May 2022 10:48:23 No.2358368 Report

Quoted By: >>2362736

>>2358363
The thing is that I am talking to many people, but it’s an old and rural bunch of people who don’t know what the heck permaculture is. They have a lot of knowledge but it’s old school, not using any sort of modern stuff / drip irrigation / etc.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 05 May 2022 05:29:30 No.2360002 Report

Quoted By: >>2360215 >>2361527 >>2363755

It's xerascaping btw, not xeroscaping. Autistic gripe of mine.

Anyways, we need more information if you want any feedback of value. Everything from low points in the landscape to aspect ratio can come into play. The most generalized advice I can give you is to go look at what's working in your area. Find the most lush patches of landscape you can in the area and see if there are patterns you can replacate in your landscape.
You can consider planting really drought hearty fruiting crops. For example, Sea buckthorn produces delicious and nutritious berries and is suited for exactly this kind of site. Refer to folk wisdom for non-conventional edible plants that could work on that site. Was there ever an indigenous population there? What did they eat?
Additionally, consider plant successions. If you want to work your way up to fruit trees and such you can't just plop em in. You need to work your way up from grassland, to scrubland, to woodland.
You'll also want to get some shelter trees up asap to reduce the wind, it's going to really dry the site out.

If you want to really turbo-charge it, you need to build the soil with a compost tea. Don't bother trying to bring it fertilize or outside soil. It will erode away instantly. You need to build the soil natively. "The hidden half of nature" have a fairly easy to follow description of the compost tea process in the prologue or first chapter I think, but regular treatment of the soil for a year will put you 40 years ahead in terms of building the site than if you just try to work up to it.

t. ecological planner

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 May 2022 14:10:29 No.2360214 Report

Quoted By: >>2361527

>>2358357
>plant tree
>wait
>eat fruit
>repeat x200 with different species to get variety of food throughout year

Not bullshit just lots of complex factors to do it well and you can easily do it badly if you don't understand trees.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 May 2022 14:14:41 No.2360215 Report

Quoted By:

>>2360002
Thank you anon, this helps immensely. The area is very windy as you said so wind blockers should go asap as suggested.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 May 2022 14:16:05 No.2360216 Report

Quoted By:

>>2358353
Start with a shelter belt all the way around your land, figure out a species mix that will protect you from salt wind. These should be the hardiest evergreen trees that will grow in your area.

Then from there I would plant lots of soil-improving trees and herbaceous perennials like comfrey randomly around, leaf mulch helps the soil as do nitrogen fixing trees. Also put in some bird-friendly trees to help control pests in future.

While you're establishing these foundations you can observe your land and think more about your plan for fruits and nuts. Maybe dig a pond for water collection. Take into account where south is, your soil type and where water flows (dryer and wetter areas).

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 May 2022 02:53:28 No.2361527 Report

Quoted By: >>2361641 >>2361650

>>2360214
This system is what you do if you either You are kind of just describing conventional agriculture. OP could do it this way if he is fine with putting a lot of additional inputs into the trees, both while they are establishing and on an ongoing basis that's not a self sustaining permaculture.

>>2360002
Doubled back to this because I realized I should clarify what I mean by plant succession. Basically, how it works in nature is that a site first gets populated by pioneer species, and every plant after is reliant at least in part on the changes that the plants before them made to the conditions of that location. To replicate that to your advantage for permaculture, you would essentially want to:

1) plant your toughest plants first. Whatever loves full sun, dry soil and can handle getting beat up by the elements.

2) Once those establish (as little as a year), come in with things that are more tender. Plants that still like it dry but maybe can't take the wind for example
2) Next come in with the heartiest trees you intend to plant, or the larger leggy savannah shrubs. These types of trees often have to start under hearty shrub cover, oaks for example often start to come up under the shelter or rose hedges that are dense and protect them from browsing.
3) Now that you have a canopy you can start planting the more tender understory perennials and shrubs. The stuff that needs dappled shade to kill the worst of the summer heat, needs a richer soil that will be built by leaf litter from the canopy, and needs slightly more moist soil.
4) Once you have a good understory set up, you can plant basically whatever else, like you more needy fruit trees.

You can help each phase by adding natural materials strategically around the planting. Deadfall logs and boulders for example. These provide shade or shelter to establishing plants. Deadfall will also encourage invertibrates and fungi into the site that will aid in soil dev. The whole process would take 3-6 years

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 May 2022 09:16:46 No.2361641 Report

Quoted By:

>>2361527
Absolutely epic, and that timeline sounds about right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 May 2022 09:53:42 No.2361650 Report

Quoted By: >>2361651 >>2362040

>>2361527
What about the current plants? There are quite a few growing and a lot of grasses, should I just spot-remove them when I am planting the toughest plants/trees and shelter belt? Or should I plow all the fields and start that way?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 May 2022 09:56:18 No.2361651 Report

Quoted By:

>>2361650
This is a current pic of existing growth btw, it looks like this throughout. Original pic was from center of summer last here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 May 2022 00:25:08 No.2362040 Report

Quoted By: >>2362650

>>2361650
Spot remove. Unless the site has problem plants like noxious invasive plants. I would grub the soil back up to around a 300mm radius around each of your Starter shrubs, both to prevent the grass from choking them out to helping keep track of where you planted.
Everywhere else leave em, they will help hold water on site and prevent erosion. If you clear tilled the soil it could take years to get it back to get it back to this point depending on how dry and windswept it is.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 08 May 2022 21:37:50 No.2362650 Report

Quoted By:

>>2362040
Okay that’s what I thought, thanks. No invasive plants, but a ton of “””weeds”””, but I like them. Like pic attached some lupines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 May 2022 23:21:21 No.2362736 Report

Quoted By:

>>2358368
You nigger, that is permacultural folk knowledge; just because they don’t know the word doesn’t mean they can’t offer you something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 May 2022 00:26:43 No.2362779 Report

Quoted By:

>>2358353
Well your list of native plants is a bunch of great stuff to grow. You'd probably do great with pomegranates as well, and may be able to pull off some citrus. Honestly mildly dry climates are what most permaculture literature focuses on, with all the focus on swales and collecting water.

Don't have any firsthand experience myself though, since I live in an incredibly wet climate and if anything I have to keep the water draining and not flooding my plants.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 May 2022 05:54:46 No.2363755 Report

Quoted By:

>>2360002
Apparently it's actually Xeriscaping, although that's strange because plants that prefer dry environments are Xerophytes.

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