/out/ - Outdoors » Thread #374068

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452KiB, 1000x1605, nano as jacket green lichen.jpg

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 19:44:46 No.374068 View View Reply Original Report

Hi guys, newbie here.

Will goretex active jacket keep me warm with regular hoodie, regular shirt and regular underwear?

I'm going for a trip in a two days, and I'm set on buying Marmot Nano As Jacket (pic related), but I'm wondering if in windy weather circa 10 degrees C thats going to be enough

Also, is goretex worth it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 19:48:27 No.374074 Report

Quoted By: >>374086

is it better to get a cheaper jacket and invest in some kind of super high tech base layer, or regular everyday cotton clothes are enough for amateur mountaineering?

I've read wonders about Goretex jackets, but are those comfy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 19:53:17 No.374085 Report

Quoted By: >>374086 >>374090

>>374068
It depends on the weather. Most likely yes. Keep in mind that if your 'regular' clothes are made of cotton and they get wet they won't keep you warm.

I was out today in windy weather and around 5c in a breathable membrane type jacket (gore-tex knock off) and a polyester T-shirt and I was warm enough. Keep in mind that if you gain altitude, the temperature drops.

Gore-tex type fabric is worth it IMO. The breathability is noticeable compared to other options.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 19:55:47 No.374086 Report

Quoted By: >>374090

>>374074
Personally I think base layers are something that are fine if bought cheaply. Cotton is bad as I said >>374085

>mountaineering
Please no. What are you actually planning on doing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 20:01:16 No.374090 Report

Quoted By: >>374092 >>374104

>>374085
Thanks! So polyester base layer is a must then, right? How expensive are those? Do I need to also have a polyester hoodie, or it's mostly about the layer closest to skin?

>>374086
sorry, I was hoping that adding amateur in front would soften the expression.

I'm planning on climbing few mointains in central Norway with my friends, less than 2k over the sea level, in a course of 3-4 days, with sleeping under the tent in between

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 20:04:11 No.374092 Report

Quoted By:

>>374090
also, I have around 250 euros to spend on the gear.

I do have a sleeping bag, and super cheap sleeping mat, and decent boots. Tent is also not a problem. All I need is a good jacket and possibly some underwear

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 20:17:51 No.374104 Report

Quoted By:

>>374090
The ones I have cost ~€6.50, but prices are probably higher there. To wear on top of the T-shirt you probably want a polyester fleece. Again, these can be found cheaply. You don't want to wear cotton at all really, although I wear cotton boxers.

Your trip sounds good. I hope that you stay safe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 20:24:02 No.374106 Report

Quoted By: >>374112

i red somewhere that you should have 3 layers: first one should be covering sking and its only purpose is to keep you dry from sweat. it should transmit moisture from skin to the second layer asap. second layer should be insulating layer - fleece (if i remember correctly)
its main purpose is to evaporate the sweat and keep you warm. the third layer is weatherproof, it should not let water and wind come inside.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds reasonable to me.

Going to the secondhand shop tomorrow to buy stuff for my first outdoors trip, so gonna try to find those 3 layers.
Also, i know its not topic related, but i dont want to create new thread so can anyone recommend me good tent to buy? or at least name some brands

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 20:35:34 No.374112 Report

Quoted By: >>374120 >>374474

>>374106
OP here.

Yep, 3 layer system is true, my original problem was - can cotton clothes serve as 1st and 2nd layer. Apparently they can't.

Brands to some degree do depend on the continent - are you from europe? Also, and probably more importantly on your price range.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 25 Aug 2014 20:48:55 No.374120 Report

Quoted By:

>>374112
im from east europe and dont have much cash, so would prolly not spend more than 50 dollars. in other words best thing for me is cheap brand with good quality/money ratio

opium

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO MODEL_TERLAN_HINTEN.jpg, 172KiB, 500x500

opium Tue 26 Aug 2014 11:49:09 No.374474 Report

Quoted By: >>374608

>>374112
cotton has the nickname "death cloth" in the S&R community,
The reason is:
the cotton will lose its thermal properties when wet
will take ages to dry ( try open air drying some jeans)
but it won’t burn when you get it by sparks from a fire with is good

polyester is good for its wet & warm properties
will dry very quickly (i have stuff thats dry right out of the washing machine)
but it can be noisy so people often use a cotton polyester mix.
sparks will melt holes into it.

if you are on a low budget go second hand
or into a hardware store, look for work clothes, check the inside where the size is written for the material. often you can get 70% poly 25% cotton 5% elastane stuff.
lots of pockets and good cuts for movement.
they will cheap and durable looks ok i gues (pic related)
its best to add some water proofing with additional treatment (impregnation spray)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 13:17:16 No.374510 Report

Quoted By: >>374608

>>374068
If you do not need it to be 100% waterproof (not expecting to be in rain for hours on end), get a "soft shell" jacket.

It is much more versatile, but can get soaked - use plenty of DWR (dirt water repelant) to get it water resistant.

If you need insulation from cold - using only GoreTex won't do that for you. You need something to keep you warm, like a sweater (wool is always a better when wet when compared to synthetics), a base layer (preferably wool again).

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO GoreTex fabric.jpg, 44KiB, 320x407

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 15:52:20 No.374569 Report

Quoted By: >>374608

>>374068
>Also, is goretex worth it?

Nothing ruins a good time quicker then being soaking wet.

Don't be suckered by the advertising, water "resistant" means it's only sufficient for dashing from your car to the grocery store entrance
but if you're out in the rain for any length of time, you'll get soaked thru and thru.

And while old school style rubberized rain gear will keep the rain off, you'll be sweating your ass off and end up almost as wet on the inside
and just as miserable.

Personally, I feel a GoreTex jacket (or similar modern water PROOF yet breathable fabric) is a critical /out/ item everybody ought to have,
same goes for GoreTex boots.

Absolutely worth the money IMO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 17:25:39 No.374608 Report

Quoted By: >>374611 >>374619

>>374569
>>374510
>>374474

Thanks guys.

I hope that I haven't failed you completely, but I dodn't go for a goretex. Insted I bought Marmot Storm Watch Jacket with 2.5 layer ( NanoPro waterproof/breathable membrane), seam taped and with pit zips.

It's supposed to have 10k waterproofness and 17k breathabilty. Is that decent?

On top of that I bought smarwool's next-to-skin merino wool baselayer shity 250g/m2 and some cheap Quechua polyester sweater, also around 250g/m2

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 17:29:02 No.374611 Report

Quoted By: >>374619 >>374633

>>374608
* shirt, not shity. That thing is hopefully anything but shitty, since it costed almost as much as the jacket

Anyone with experience with merino wool? I'ts supposed to be odour-free. Do you guys think that it is acceptable to go on a 4days trip with only one baselayer merino wool shirt?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 17:42:08 No.374619 Report

Quoted By:

>>374608
it's fine. pretty much all the branded waterproof/breathable shell fabrics are similar, goretex, h2no (patagonia), hyvent (tnf) etc. with performance varying depending on temp, humidity, perspiration level. in the end none are very breathable when you're exerting yourself. you'll still get humid inside, but less so than with a fisherman PVC rain coat. eVent is the newest and supposedly the best, also the most expensive.

>>374611
merino is a staple for base layers. relatively soft, warm. like all wool it's naturally odor resistant and retains some warmth while wet. dries quickly, not like cotton which sops up water like a towel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 18:02:54 No.374633 Report

Quoted By: >>374642

>>374611
> Do you guys think that it is acceptable to go on a 4days trip with only one baselayer merino wool shirt?
for 10 C, merino baselayer + hard shell would be fine while hiking but you'd probably need an insulating layer while sitting around camp at night, and more depending on how high you go. your trip is 4 days, starting at sea level and ending at 2,000m? is this right? what's the absolute lowest temp you expect at night?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 18:15:09 No.374642 Report

Quoted By: >>374649 >>374654

>>374633
Yep, that's about right. It should not fall below zero degrees celcius.

I'm not sure about the wind though, but I'm not expecting extremes in that department either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 18:19:31 No.374646 Report

Quoted By: >>374654

I am a little bit worried about my sleeping bag - it's comfort temperatures end at around +3C. I guess I will have to sleep in my merino and possibly some leggings

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 18:25:24 No.374649 Report

Quoted By: >>374655 >>374656 >>374658

>>374642
>It should not fall below zero degrees celcius.
at what elevation? temp drops 6 C/km

opium

opium Tue 26 Aug 2014 18:29:22 No.374654 Report

Quoted By: >>374658

>>374646
if its rated for the new EU norm 3°C should be ok.
otherwise take the temp numbers with a grain of salt.
>comfort means: not cold
>limit means: really fucking cold, limited sleep.
>extreme means: you won't die at this temperature.

i assume you are not a grill, and not going alone, more people in the tent make it a good bit warmer.

also sleeping naked to be warmer is a retarded myth, so wear your merino legins, beany-hat

>>374642
also dont forget the windchill effect and possible rain, but i think you should be fine not like the weather prediction is 50 kph winds right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 18:29:57 No.374655 Report

Quoted By: >>374656 >>374658

>>374649
>6 C/km
Really? I thought it was 1 C°/100m

opium

opium Tue 26 Aug 2014 18:34:14 No.374656 Report

Quoted By:

>>374649
>>374655
Average temperature drop per 100 m of altitude: 0.65 degrees.

That is valid all the way up to the tropopause, the top of the troposhere where temperature sinks with altitude. Above that, in the stratosphere, the temperature remains much the same.

Our weather is very much based on the difference of temperature with altitude.

Dry air temperatue drops with about 1 degrees C per 100 meter and saturated moist air, at about 0.5 degrees C per 100 meter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 18:36:25 No.374658 Report

Quoted By:

>>374649
well, I'm getting my forecast from norwegian site with pretty detailed temperature maps covering both the bottom of the fjords and the summits. so hopefully it won't get below 0 anywhere.

>>374655
is it really 1C/100m? That sounds drastic

>>374654
beany hat, thats something that I should get
Other than that, thank you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Aug 2014 18:41:26 No.374659 Report

Quoted By:

I guess I'm set. Thank you all for the help.

Now my only concern will be to get the most out of this trip, and hopefully, the WW3 is not going to start when I'm gone. That would be one awkward trip home.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tnf baltoro.jpg, 64KiB, 480x640

Anonymous Wed 27 Aug 2014 11:11:39 No.374978 Report

Quoted By: >>374998

Hijacking this thread for a question. Help me /out/ please.

I can get my hands on a TNF Baltoro (pic related) - currently renamed to Himalayan Parka - which is basically brand new for about €150/$200. Retail price here are slightly less than €700/$900. An absolute steal all in all.

Pros
>insane bargain
>never cold again
>snowproof
Cons
>bulkier
>not rainproof

I'd be using it for a few summits every year, usually 4000-6000m or so. A down jacket is no luxury at those altitudes, so I've noticed. Worth it, or is it just plain and total overkill and would you recommend going for a lighter down jacket, even if it would cost me more?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Aug 2014 13:03:36 No.374998 Report

Quoted By: >>375029

>>374978
It would be serious comfy-mode for general everyday winter use.
I wouldn't use for /out/ activities though. (never need something like that in Scotland)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Aug 2014 15:16:19 No.375029 Report

Quoted By: >>376555

>>374998
Well, that's the thing - I live in Belgium, and winters here aren't even as cold as in Scotland. I'd probably rarely use it here, only for alpine trekking and summits. That said, any decent winter coat is probably going to set me back at least as much...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Aug 2014 09:46:46 No.376555 Report

Quoted By:

>>375029
That jacket is overkill if you're in Belgium. Think baselayer, midlayer and shell, and adjust those to the weather/situation.

If yore really doing summits with snow and fredzing temperatures, add a good quality packable down jacket to use in camp or to put on top of your shell during short rests.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Aug 2014 23:58:36 No.376891 Report

Quoted By:

merino wool baselayer?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 31 Aug 2014 00:53:51 No.376932 Report

Quoted By:

Also jacket question:

Does anyone have experience with the Northface Venture, Resolve, or Allabout?

They seem like a decent low-cost light waterproof, but I can't find the difference between the 3 online.

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