/out/ - Outdoors » Thread #44437

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Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 20:16:25 No.44437 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By:

What would be the safest method to lower yourself/someone else down a cliff in an emergency with nothing but paracord?

I realize it's never safe, but assume there's no other choice, and you have enough paracord to double it up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 20:22:47 No.44455 Report

Quoted By: >>44470 >>44482

What kind of cliff? How tall? What pound rating is the paracord? Is down-climbing not an option?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 20:28:22 No.44470 Report

Quoted By: >>44482 >>44493

>>44455
The situation I was thinking about was a stopped ski-lift. You'd have a secure horizontal bar above your head, 40-50 feet to the ground and no danger of abrasion on rocks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 20:31:59 No.44482 Report

Quoted By: >>44493

>>44470
>>44455
Oh, and 550 paracord, so you'd have about 275 lbs. breaking point in most knots, giving you just enough strength to abseil a person in ideal conditions on one cord.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 20:35:42 No.44493 Report

Quoted By:

>>44470
>>44482
Tie off paracord, slide down it, using your ski gloves as brakes (hopefully they have leather palms) rather than climbing down the cord. You'd hit the ground with a crash, but less hard than without the cord.

I'm not sure how well that would work, just throwing my thoughts out there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 20:42:51 No.44514 Report

Quoted By: >>44522

i guess i would tie the rope off the the ski lift using a slip knot, wrap the secure end a few times around a bar on the chair then lower my friend down, then i would follow bringing the other end so i can release the knot and take the rope with me

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 20:45:13 No.44522 Report

Quoted By: >>44799

>>44514
The problem isn't keeping the rope.
The problem is that you can't hold someone's bodyweight on 2 paracord strands. It would just slide through your hands and cut/burn them up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 21:35:07 No.44675 Report

Quoted By: >>44799

There is no way. Even if you double up, the shock load of stopping a human weight could easily snap the cord, nevermind the fact that paracord doesn't have enough friction for a munter hitch or belay device.

Survival isn't about doing amazing things with minimal materials. Survival is about doing what's necessary to stay alive and, above all else, minimizing your exposure to danger. If you're in a situation where you have no safer route and it's not safe to wait for rescue, you already fucked up. You're already dead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 21:53:45 No.44747 Report

Quoted By: >>44795

I can't for the life of me remember it now, but whatever the olden days mountaineering way of abseiling was, without harness or belay device etc. Some kind of wrap around the legs shoulders whatever type of jig.

Anyways, that - and as many strands of the paracord as the distances will alow

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Duelfersitz.jpg, 44KiB, 364x576

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:06:19 No.44795 Report

Quoted By: >>44813 >>44955

>>44747
The Dulfursitz.

Paracord would theoretically support a person's weight. The typical (there is no real standard) cord supports 550lbs, or 2kN. A person hanging on a line can reasonably expect to put 1kN of static load on the cord. Dynamic loads begin at 3kN (10 cm drop) and can climb higher than 25kN when increased. Generally, the standard is 10:1 for static loads, and for dynamic loads a shock-absorbing element must be employed. Doubled up, you get 4kN (or 1100) MBS theoretically, which is still nowhere near any modern safety standard. TL;DR, there are MUCH better ways of doing this. 8mm rap lines are cheap and much stronger, and 8mm 1/2 (half) ropes are designed to have dynamic characteristics.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO skilift.png, 29KiB, 1094x528

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:06:58 No.44799 Report

Quoted By: >>44857 >>44900

>>44522
>>44675

aight, i think thats arguable but i have another method

tie bro to rope
tie off rope to chair with a slipknot about 6 feet down from bro
lower bro off chair, might slip through hands but will only fall a couple of feet
climb down and sit on bro, taking the res of the rope
tie the release rope in a half hitch to the weight bearing rope just below the chair
pass release rope underneath bro then back up and through the half hitch and use his body as a brake
give the release rope a yank to undoe the slipknot

our combined weight and the cord running around my bro should provide enough friction to allow us to absail down

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:11:15 No.44813 Report

Quoted By:

>>44795
Aaah yeah that's the fucker... Ta.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:25:08 No.44857 Report

Quoted By: >>44880 >>44886

>>44799
Knots are usually assumed to halve the strength of the rope. That's not always true, depending on the knot, but slipknots and half hitches are pretty close to that. You're also doubling the weight that's being held. That puts you well over the static strength of a brand new piece of paracord, and possibly at least triple the static strength of a piece that's had some use. Doubled up, you'll still have the dynamic load to deal with, and depending on wear and tear, you could still be over the static strength.

The safe load on paracord, at 5:1 safety factor, is only 110 pounds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:29:47 No.44880 Report

Quoted By:

>>44857
5:1 is for things that aren't alive, 10:1 is for humans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:30:17 No.44886 Report

Quoted By: >>44926

>>44857
This guy actually tested 3 different kinds of paracord and none of them broke below 650 lbs. INSIDE the knot.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=36592

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:33:11 No.44900 Report

Quoted By:

>>44799
If you brought 30 meters of paracord (or stronger,) you also brought 2 'biners and some webbing for a harness. Toss the rope over a convenient steel pipe so both ends touch the ground, then monster munter/fireman's belay to the ground. No knots required.

Oooooorrrrr...
You can bring a thermos and some weed and wait for patrol.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:41:55 No.44926 Report

Quoted By: >>44940

>>44886
You call that testing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Cg8homvoU&playnext=1&list=PLD7687EC9569E8750

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:45:45 No.44937 Report

Quoted By:

Actually, there's better data here: http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/blackdiamond/search/results/q/qc+lab

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:47:10 No.44940 Report

Quoted By: >>44951 >>44955

>>44926
They test it in a way that makes sure it has a 0% chance to fail when millions of people use it regularly.
I'm looking for something that's better than 10% failure chance using it once. That's a big difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLqLdNoMvB4

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:49:56 No.44951 Report

Quoted By:

>>44940
Yeah, try that then bounce on it a couple of times until it breaks (and it WILL break.) Video then report back, I will give you internets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Mar 2013 22:51:09 No.44955 Report

Quoted By:

>>44940
also, see >>44795

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