/out/ - Outdoors » Thread #623909

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37KiB, 660x360, Fallkniven-DC521-pierre-Stone.jpg

dc4 whetstone

Anonymous Tue 03 Nov 2015 23:50:22 No.623909 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>623952 >>623958 >>624243 >>624253 >>624256 >>624381 >>624641 >>626145

Hey guys, i'm learning to sharpen knives with my shitty Mora on my Fallkniven DC4 whetstone.

The instructions are here;
http://www.fallkniven.com/en/shop/details/369/13/sharpeners/dc4

It clearly states; "Use no oil or water."

Am i meant to soak the whetstone in water beforehand?

My assumption is yes... but these instructions seem to state otherwise, and all the YouTube guides i've watched haven't mentioned soaking it.

Thanks

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Nov 2015 23:52:50 No.623912 Report

Quoted By: >>623914

>shitty mora
Stopped reading there. Moras ain't shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Nov 2015 23:55:34 No.623914 Report

Quoted By: >>623924

>>623912
By shitty Mora, i just meant the cheapest Mora i could find. I like the knife a lot. Didn't mean to offend.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 00:06:42 No.623924 Report

Quoted By:

>>623914
No worries, I don't like people unreasonably shitting on it. Yes soak the stone for a bit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 00:10:53 No.623926 Report

Quoted By: >>623939

It's not a stone, it's diamond and ceramic...

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 00:36:09 No.623939 Report

Quoted By: >>623949

>>623926

>It's not a stone, it's diamond and ceramic...

How does it not qualify as as a stone?

The ceramic portion is merely a block of sintered aluminium oxide.

If i took a waterstone which is also just a block of bonded aluminum oxide and glued a diamond plate to one side, would it no longer be a "stone"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 00:54:58 No.623949 Report

Quoted By:

>>623939
In practice yes, in theory no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 00:57:38 No.623951 Report

Quoted By: >>623953 >>623954

So, to soak or not to soak?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO fscan12600.jpg, 500KiB, 600x498

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 01:00:53 No.623952 Report

Quoted By:

>>623909
Scandinavian edge sharpening is among one of life's greatest pleasures. Your first time, keep removing material until all manufacturing lines are gone. The tip will take some time, so be patient.
Your blade should look like pic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 01:02:11 No.623953 Report

Quoted By:

>>623951
Don't soak. When it loads up wash the stone. I have ceramic/diamond sharpening rods and have never needed to use any liquids

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 01:04:14 No.623954 Report

Quoted By: >>624726

>>623951
After double checking op link to instructions I can confirm it CLEARLY STATES, "use no oil or water,".

So what is the question again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 01:10:11 No.623958 Report

Quoted By: >>623963

>>623909
Yours came in a box? Mine just has the leather sheath.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 01:14:42 No.623963 Report

Quoted By: >>624016

>>623958
Your's came with a sheath? Mine came with a buffalo robe.

Man, they're really cutting corners these days.

FrozenZoo !TLemZHlLhI

FrozenZoo !TLemZHlLhI Wed 04 Nov 2015 02:48:03 No.624016 Report

Quoted By: >>624033

>>623963
buffalo robe?
mine came in a cum towel

Drunkinnatent

Drunkinnatent Wed 04 Nov 2015 03:58:19 No.624033 Report

Quoted By: >>624084

>>624016
Cum towel?
Mine came in a Tupperware of cum

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 05:28:26 No.624084 Report

Quoted By:

>>624033
tupperware of cum?
Mine came in a diaper of what looked and smelled like diarrhea after indian food

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 08:04:02 No.624134 Report

Quoted By: >>624195 >>624726

i think op should probably use no oil or water and stop asking retarded questions on the internet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 12:57:11 No.624195 Report

Quoted By: >>624651

>>624134
Op sounds like a female, females on 4chan in general and /out/ especially are responsible for some of the most retarded and unnecessary post

Also the primary source of attention whoring posts

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 14:13:06 No.624209 Report

Quoted By: >>624261 >>624291

A diamond and ceramic jobby like the OP has should do as good a job as a normal whetstone right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 16:11:22 No.624243 Report

Quoted By:

>>623909

Ignore that nonsense and use a little mineral oil on it. All sharpening stones will work better and load far less with some lubrication (oil or water depending on stone type). It is a diamond plate and sintered ceramic, how would mineral oil even conceivably damage it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 16:19:38 No.624248 Report

Quoted By:

I use some water but only when cleaning it. In the field I just spit and swipe. Done.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO professor_birnbaum_high.jpg, 87KiB, 1500x844

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 16:32:32 No.624253 Report

Quoted By: >>624726

>>623909
real help is nigh, OP:
We, at the renowned Bernhard.-B.-Birnbaum-Instititute for Science checked this subject, read the manual, further instructions and came to the following, phenomal conclusion:

USE NO OIL OR WATER

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Bakunin_not_sure.png, 36KiB, 600x600

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 16:38:03 No.624256 Report

Quoted By: >>624726

>>623909
>It clearly states; "Use no oil or water."
>Am i meant to soak the whetstone in water beforehand?
>My assumption is yes

srsly? whats so hard to understand about "Use no oil or water."? are you a retard by chance?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 16:42:42 No.624261 Report

Quoted By:

>>624209
i use a belgian whetstone in addition

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 18:36:57 No.624291 Report

Quoted By: >>624301

>>624209

Most of he commonly used modern sharpening stones can be effective if used correctly, but they each have different strengths and weaknesses.

Diamond plates and sintered ceramic stones are convenient because they don't require flattening, and great for setting a final apex on a knife because they do t generate a slurry of loose abrasive that dulls the apex as you sharpen. On the other hand they are slow, need to be cleaned frequently, and tend to generate a large, ragged burr in use.

Conversely, friable abrasives have to be flattened and are a pain for final finishing an edge, but they excel in speed and the slurry keeps the apex relatively burr free.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 18:57:24 No.624301 Report

Quoted By: >>624398

>>624291
Well that's interesting, good to know this of course since most of the whetstones I see are worth more than the knives I buy.

I've seen combination waterstones with varying (grit?) scores, 250/1000 or 1000/6000.
I mean, I've mostly just got 440 steels but would it be a waste to sharpen with those tools?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 20:46:58 No.624381 Report

Quoted By:

>>623909

What made you go with this brand?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 21:17:22 No.624398 Report

Quoted By:

>>624301

With waterstones you should get a diamond plate like an XXC DMT or Atoma 140 plate that can be used to flatten the waterstones.

Then which combination of grits to get should depend on the desired scope of work. For kitchen knives I would get a 1k/6k combo stone, for rougher work where a coarse edge is useful I would get the 250/1k.

Just remember that some type of solid abrasive will be better for finishing off the apex. All friable abrasives have the problem of having loose grit impact the apex and slightly dull it while using edge leading strokes. You can get around this by either finishing off with edge-trailing strokes only on the waterstones, or by switching to a solid non-friable abrasive for finishing up the apex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 21:45:26 No.624420 Report

Quoted By: >>624427

What is a quality brand whetstone?

I am just getting into sharpening knives and want to know what grit to get and which brand is worth buying.

Is there any tools apart from the whetstone I need?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Nov 2015 21:59:47 No.624427 Report

Quoted By:

>>624420

What kind of whetstone are you looking for?

For diamond plates I would take Atoma first and DMT second. For oilstones I would take Norton Crystolon first and India second (use them with lots of mineral oil! They clog very fast using water or any other cleaner shit).

For sintered ceramics I like Spyderco, but if you want coarser Falkniven is also good.

For waterstones I would personally recommend Sigma Power Select II, but most people would probably recommend Shapton ceramic waterstones (it depends on how you like waterstones to behave, I vastly prefer fast cutting and muddy and I don't care if they have to be lapped often).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 02:31:49 No.624641 Report

Quoted By: >>624726

>>623909

Dont think that's one of those nice sharpening stones, anon.

That is a field sharpener, not the best for sharpening edges precisely.

Do NOT use water or oil, tie it down securely so it doesnt move and start grinding against it.

Scandi grind is perhaps the worst grind for this sharpener. Works great with convex though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 02:42:58 No.624651 Report

Quoted By: >>624666 >>624912

>>624195
>females on 4chan in general and /out/ especially are responsible for some of the most retarded and unnecessary post
Your /b/tard is showing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 02:58:08 No.624666 Report

Quoted By:

>>624651
> confirmed has not read the recent "feels" thread on /cgl/

Feels good about your shitty life after you read it!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 03:58:51 No.624726 Report

Quoted By: >>624731

>>623954
>>624134
>>624253
>>624256
>>624641

So, what do any of you geniuses believe will happen if he uses a little mineral oil on his DC4? It will spontaneously combust? Find me any other metal grinding application where you could find a bunch of chuckleheads cautioning against using lubrication. Literally any other than knife sharpening, riven as it is by superstition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 04:03:23 No.624731 Report

Quoted By:

>>624726
If you don't follow the directions, you are doing it wrong.

Deny that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 08:57:39 No.624871 Report

Quoted By:

Use water, the fact they say not to doesn't mean you shouldn't.

The reasoning is probably similar to food items that say "best cooked from frozen"

Despite it sometimes being better to thaw before cooking, its much less convenient so people are more likely to buy a product that they think is at its optimum from frozen.

If someone is looking for a pocket sharpener, chances are one that claims to work best dry is more desirable.

Regardless of their reasoning though, both the ceramic and diamond side will work better wet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 09:26:26 No.624876 Report

Quoted By: >>624885 >>624922

I don't understand what's going on in this thread. It says don't use a thing and OP is asking if you use a thing.

Then some guy is actually defending the use of a thing it says not to use?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 10:09:53 No.624885 Report

Quoted By: >>624892

>>624876

If you sharpen dry, loose abrasive and metal will clog the stone and also dull the knife by hitting the apex directly.

Using a diamond plate without water will also damage it, the nickel bonding isn't strong enough and diamonds will be torn out, especially by softer low ally steels.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 10:27:28 No.624892 Report

Quoted By: >>624900 >>624922

>>624885
Would you wet a ceramic/diamond rod system like the lansky croc sticks?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 11:10:21 No.624900 Report

Quoted By:

>>624892

Diamond - yes.

The reduced cutting efficiency of a dry abrasive can be used to your advantage but for the most part you want to keep abrasives wet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 12:33:16 No.624912 Report

Quoted By:

>>624651
Lol whut? Your new is showing, just hang around and pay attention when you see women post, it will become obvious what I said was true

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 05 Nov 2015 13:30:38 No.624922 Report

Quoted By:

>>624876
>>624892

The first thing you need to understand is that a large percentage of what you read, even from manufacturers, about knives or sharpening is basically superstition or marketing never tested for accuracy.

Fallkniven probably recommended that because it is good marketing. A lot of people don't like to mess with lubricants while sharpening, and sure, it will work dry, but it will work MUCH better with a lubricant.

Using stones dry will cause them to clog up with metal removed from the edge, and the additional friction and heat generated makes burr formation much worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Nov 2015 08:39:36 No.626145 Report

Quoted By: >>627482

>>623909
I have a dc4 and the new cc4 and I use them both dry. Gives a good edge very quickly. I use my homemade strop and polish afterwards if I want to give it a bit of extra bite.

Might work a bit better with oil but will work fine without.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Nov 2015 10:33:39 No.626164 Report

Quoted By: >>626201

DC stones from falkniven are meant to be used dry, they're basically field stones.
whetstones are meant to be soaked before use.
OP do NOT soak the stone, or use any oil or water, it could ruin your sharpener.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Nov 2015 13:09:11 No.626201 Report

Quoted By:

>>626164
>DC stones from falkniven are meant to be used dry, they're basically field stones.

Why does being a field store or "basically" a field stone mean it should be used try.

>whetstones are meant to be soaked before use.

Whetstone is a catch all term, it literally means sharpening stone, the DC4 is obviously no exception. Soaking certain stones can cause them to crumble and crack so that's pretty horrible advice.

>OP do NOT soak the stone, or use any oil or water, it could ruin your sharpener.

Go on? Some stones will wear faster when soaked but this isnt a case with a sintered stone like the DC4. Any traditional diamond plate is more prone to damage when used dry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Nov 2015 03:40:24 No.627277 Report

Quoted By:

Original reason the DC4 manual said not to use water is because it would act as a solvent on the shitty adhesive gluing the two sides together. I believe this has been rectified in recent times, so you should be alright to use water. I always do.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1357352514644.jpg, 2MiB, 3264x2448

Anonymous Mon 09 Nov 2015 03:51:28 No.627280 Report

Quoted By:

Sharpening knives is fun.

I find it cathartic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Nov 2015 11:47:29 No.627482 Report

Quoted By:

I am
>>626145
You guys got me thinking to do some experiments and I can now confirm that the DC4 and particularly the CC4 work better when used with a little bit of water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Nov 2015 22:20:15 No.628406 Report

Quoted By: >>628484

I have 0 (zero) experience with knives and sharpening stones. Polishing aside, will I need anything more than http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-fallkniven-diamond-ceramic-whetstone-dc4.htm

to sharpen a Mora Companion and a CS Recon Tanto? I'm thinking of buying them all in one go.

How long will the whetstone last under hard use? It seems pretty thin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Nov 2015 01:13:22 No.628484 Report

Quoted By: >>628485

>>628406
> CS Recon Tanto

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Nov 2015 01:15:56 No.628485 Report

Quoted By:

>>628484
two late

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