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I think I have solved it.
This chart is different modifiers on the light.
Top line is bare bulb which is prob close to my shit LED lights.
Mid is octa and beauty dishes.
Bottom middle is big umbrellas.
The umbrellas are incredible for removing shadows and by far the most common modifier I see in reflections.
That explains why no matter how I tried setting up my shit led lights, it was always making shadows.
Also fuck how the solution in photography always seems to end up being something that costs heaps.