/p/ - Photography » Thread #2621807

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Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 21:34:19 No.2621807 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>2621810 >>2621861 >>2621872 >>2621880 >>2621886 >>2624081

Is it stupid to invest in a mirrorless system like m43 for professional use? It just seems like the high quality m43 stuff is a fraction of the price of the high quality full frame, yet the gap in quality between the two is questionable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 21:36:48 No.2621810 Report

Quoted By: >>2621827

>>2621807
>for professional use
what kind of "professional use"?

depends on your needs

do you need a hyper portable weather sealed kit?

be more specific

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 21:51:39 No.2621827 Report

Quoted By: >>2621834

>>2621810
Just like portraits and some local low end commercial work

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 21:57:56 No.2621834 Report

Quoted By: >>2621878 >>2621883 >>2621888

>>2621827
M43 doesn't have the resolving power needed for professional anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 22:37:04 No.2621861 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621807
wait for some magical m43 sensor from sony.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 22:41:54 No.2621872 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621807
>It just seems like the high quality m43 stuff is a fraction of the price of the high quality full frame

Have you ever looked how much those professional Olympus lenses cost?

FF with slow-ish lenses (f/4 70-200, f/1.8 primes) is definitely a cheaper option.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 22:46:57 No.2621878 Report

Quoted By: >>2621881 >>2621963

>>2621834
35mm film did pretty OK for a lot of "pro" applications and it's certainly worse than 4/3

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 22:47:12 No.2621880 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621807
Micro four thirds is primarily marketed to people who
A) are teenage girls and like cute little cameras
B) old ex-pros who want an all metal high quality camera that isn't too heavy for their hands

teenage girls are too stupid and old men are too blind to see the poor IQ

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 22:48:38 No.2621881 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621878
What are you talking about? Pros near the end of the film age almost exclusively used 645 and 6x7.

With, of course, the exception of the occasional photographer who didn't need portability and used an 8x10 camera.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 8006094668_26296e5aee_b.jpg, 184KiB, 781x1024

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 22:53:16 No.2621883 Report

Quoted By: >>2621888 >>2624434

>>2621834
Let's see what a professional watch photographer had to say http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/09/21/olympus-60-2-8-macro/

>That said, the Olympus system – and Micro Four Thirds – for macro work has a lot going for it; firstly, a truly outstanding lens which is almost completely CA-free; flashes that aren’t that expensive, and very, very small – like the rest of the system. I could fit an equivalent system to what I use now in a bag half the size. Although on the face of things, the Nikon system has a huge resolution advantage – you lose something in diffraction (despite the D800E not having an AA filter), and the OM-D files are clean enough to upsize well to 25MP or so. The difference is much less than you might think. I think I’d have a very difficult time deciding what to buy if I was starting over again with the same objectives.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 22:56:08 No.2621886 Report

Quoted By: >>2621960 >>2621962

>>2621807
for product or macro, yeah it's a viable system.

For portrait/wedding/event/fine art/landscape/low light professional use it's full frame or nothing.

crop is good for sports and wildlife in good light.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 8006661065_09606ed52c_b.jpg, 270KiB, 855x836

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2015 22:59:44 No.2621888 Report

Quoted By: >>2624434

>>2621834
>>2621883
And here's a 100% crop.

Now with that said, I'm not going to give an opinion one way or another on whether it's a good idea for OP to buy m43 if he wants to be a pro because I don't know what his needs are and maybe he really does need full frame or digital medium format or whatever else. I just wanted to point out that your blanket NEVER EVER statement was pretty dumb. Full frame is still better and it always will be, but we've reached a point where technology has advanced enough to make almost any camera good enough for a very wide range of uses and for these uses it's becoming less and less necessary to use the biggest most expensive camera you can get your hands on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 00:54:04 No.2621960 Report

Quoted By: >>2622282

>>2621886
>sports and wildlife
not with that mirrorless af. full frame is still king and the good telephoto lenses are not designed for micro four thirds. you are still better off cropping from a full frame if your lenses don't have enough reach.

crop is good for when you want a smaller or cheaper camera and don't want to deal with a used 6d or sony's user experience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 00:59:48 No.2621962 Report

Quoted By: >>2621966 >>2624167

>>2621886
>For portrait/wedding/event/fine art/landscape/low light professional use it's full frame or nothing.

Okay, this simply isn't true. In none of these situations would simply having a crop sensor prohibit you from doing anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 01:00:08 No.2621963 Report

Quoted By: >>2621967 >>2621968 >>2621970 >>2621981

>>2621878
in a perfect situation 35mm film can out resolve anything on the market 5 years from now. in a professional situation 35mm film can out resolve anything on the market right now.

its not the end product that caused everyone to switch to digital; the digital end product is still far worse. its just that dealing with film was enough of a pain in the ass for the entire world to do away with it, even if it was and will be for a while a higher quality process.

the benefits 4/3 has over film is that it can take thousands of pictures and put it on an sd card to be completely processed and printed as fast as you want it to happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 01:03:49 No.2621966 Report

Quoted By: >>2621980 >>2621984

>>2621962
Might as well use your phone then. The topic is for professional use. Full frame is the professional tool.

Its like saying should you go out and play baseball with a wood bat and leather ball or a plastic bat and ball. Obviously they both can play the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 01:05:36 No.2621967 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621963
hahahahahahahahahahaha

!trolling/g

!trolling/g Thu 09 Jul 2015 01:05:55 No.2621968 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621963
>in a professional situation 35mm film can out resolve anything on the market right now.

Maybe phone cameras, you mean.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 01:07:32 No.2621970 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621963
it's cute to see this still happening. many mfd backs challenge 4x5 side film very closely, in end result resolution.

love, a film to digital convertee

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 01:50:16 No.2621980 Report

Quoted By: >>2621984

>>2621966
Didn't that one wedding photographer win something like first prize for some national contest with secret iphone pics just to prove a point?

I know that's vague as fuck but I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 01:52:51 No.2621981 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621963
Thanks for proving to everyone that you don't know what you are talking about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 01:57:59 No.2621984 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621980
I definitely recall seeing something like this. Something along the lines of he took photos with his normal setup, but also liked iPhone pics and was able to wrangle himself some real nice ones that he ended up preferring? Maybe.

>>2621966
You realize there is a dedicated professional crop sensor series of camera for many of the most popular manufacturers, right?

A better baseball analogy would be the difference between crop and full frame is like the different between plastic and metal cleats. Both can be worn by players performing at the highest levels, they just offer different advantages.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 12:39:20 No.2622282 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621960
>don't want to deal with a a used 6d

can you elaborate on this? i'm in the market for a 6d

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 23:24:15 No.2622621 Report

Quoted By: >>2622622 >>2624083

m4/3 is better for video over full frame. Full frame is better for stills over m4/3.

One of the perks of m4/3 though, is you can practically use any lens for it with an adapter. There is a wider range of lenses you can use for sure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 23:26:04 No.2622622 Report

Quoted By: >>2622627 >>2622630

>>2622621
Of course finding old lenses that are still usable after a 2x crop isn't easy, or cheap, as even a 35mm becomes a portrait length on M4/3, but maybe we won't talk about that much...

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 23:30:55 No.2622627 Report

Quoted By:

>>2622622
only if you restrict yourself to 35mm film lenses. the meat of the good stuff is in super 16mm glass

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2015 23:34:17 No.2622630 Report

Quoted By:

>>2622622

This is why speedboosters exist though, So you can reduce crop from 2x to like 1.2x. Canon FD's are popular lenses as well. Soft, but they have character.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 09:19:32 No.2624081 Report

Quoted By: >>2624267

>>2621807

People still use m43?

Thought that shit was beat out by cell phones.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 09:20:46 No.2624083 Report

Quoted By: >>2624084

>>2622621
>m4/3 is better for video over full frame.
>LOL WUT?

A7s and new A7r II

>where is your micro frame now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 09:27:28 No.2624084 Report

Quoted By: >>2624111 >>2624967

>>2624083

>thinking video IQ is all about sensor size and not mb/s and dynamic range

a BMCC for example will shit all over an A7s /5DmkII any day.

The only reason why retards dislike M43 is because of the myth of "lol no DoF!! i need muh DoF!!! otherwise how will people know that i have a good camera? bokeh is everything >:("

search your feelings, you know it to be true

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 10:46:32 No.2624111 Report

Quoted By: >>2624410 >>2624884

>>2624084

And the Red Weapon 8k (Full frame) will shit over everything m4/3turds for the next decade.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 12:18:34 No.2624167 Report

Quoted By:

>>2621962
No, but the low light performance and depth of field is a massive performance gap for weddings and events where you are usually indoors with messy backgrounds. Landscapes benefit from the added feeling of depth a larger sensor gives.

Yeah you could go crop or 4/3 but for the same photos there will be a massive image quality loss and a big reduction in the amount of flexibility you have with poor lighting and depth of field options.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 15:22:40 No.2624267 Report

Quoted By: >>2624276

>>2624081
M43 is currently the best selling mirrorless system, above sony and nikon and canon and samsung.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO mirrorlessjapan.jpg, 112KiB, 640x573

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 15:30:25 No.2624276 Report

Quoted By: >>2624279 >>2624524

>>2624267

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 15:32:04 No.2624279 Report

Quoted By: >>2624282

>>2624276
Note that if you add Olympus and Panasonic together, they match Sony - and that graph is only in Japan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 15:33:36 No.2624282 Report

Quoted By: >>2624295

>>2624279
Sorry, I wasn't looking closely enough. Sony is both trending downward and selling less than Olympus + Panasonic (m43), which are both trending up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 15:44:35 No.2624295 Report

Quoted By: >>2624312

>>2624282
This is true, Sony is selling less and less units, but the units they sell are stuff like A7s whixh made their profits record high compared to previously.

It's sad to see the Ricoh GR struggling at the bottom though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 16:01:15 No.2624312 Report

Quoted By: >>2624327

>>2624295
It's supposed to be a graph of mirrorless sales, I'm pretty sure what they mean by Ricoh is the Pentax mirrorless cameras and the GR probably isn't included at all. I'm pretty sure the majority of what Sony sells isn't A7 cameras, it's low end crop stuff just like every other manufacturer mostly sells their low end. Also keep in mind that Sony also probably sells most of the sensors in all of these cameras.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 16:14:45 No.2624327 Report

Quoted By:

>>2624312
The GR is a mirrorless.

>I'm pretty sure the majority of what Sony sells isn't A7 cameras,
You're underestimating how much they have been selling less of the low end stuff, and more of the high end stuff.

From 2013 to 2014 they sold 26% less camera units, but their profit increased by 107%. These numbers are the big cameras doing the talk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 18:32:53 No.2624410 Report

Quoted By: >>2624419

>>2624111
>actually buying into red anything
are you real

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 18:42:12 No.2624419 Report

Quoted By: >>2624421 >>2624447

>>2624410
Yeah, the BBC really shouldn't have hired the red system for their nature documentaries.

/s

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 18:44:27 No.2624421 Report

Quoted By:

>>2624419
but I read on the internet that it's not as good. So...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 19:00:37 No.2624434 Report

Quoted By: >>2624436 >>2624443

>>2621883
>>2621888
Now imagine this using the E-M5 II's high res shot mode, which makes 63mp RAW files, or 40mp JPEGs.

Fool frame 100% replaceable by M4/3 for product photography? Absolutely. Will FF give you better ultimate IQ for general use? Most of the time, yes. Do you NEED full frame? Probably not, unless you have a very specific need for extremely shallow DoF or will be competing with dozens of other photographers shooting the same event, and only one will be picked based on absolute image quality.

Can M4/3 give you the ability to carry more gear (flashes, lenses, bodies, filters, other stuff) in a smaller bag than a FF kit? Absolutely. I'd say 95% of professional photographers would get by just fine with an E-M1 or E-M5II and a the M4/3 lenses available now.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO compact2.jpg, 357KiB, 1063x975

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 19:05:45 No.2624436 Report

Quoted By:

>>2624434
Especially when you start talking long telephoto glass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 19:22:39 No.2624443 Report

Quoted By:

>>2624434
>watch wimbledon finals
>not 1 lolympus

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 19:50:59 No.2624447 Report

Quoted By: >>2624514

>>2624419
it's one thing if it suits your workflow. i didn't work with BBC on their documentaries, so i can't say for sure whether it did theirs or not. but what in the world do you need 8k raw for?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 21:38:14 No.2624514 Report

Quoted By: >>2624517

>>2624447
so you can downscale to 4k and get maximum 4:4:4 colorspace while using pleb codecs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 21:47:18 No.2624517 Report

Quoted By: >>2624894

>>2624514
>shoots 8k raw to export to pleb-quality 4k codec
you'd better do some explaining, mister.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 21:57:56 No.2624524 Report

Quoted By: >>2624530 >>2624560

>>2624276
It's customary to add labels to axes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 22:06:22 No.2624530 Report

Quoted By:

>>2624524
Not in an M4/3 thread it's not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2015 22:50:58 No.2624560 Report

Quoted By:

>>2624524
Presumably it's market share every month, but who knows if it's by units shipped or units sold at retail or by total value or what.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Jul 2015 07:49:12 No.2624884 Report

Quoted By: >>2624909

>>2624111
>mfw the Arri Alexa has an S35 sensor
>mfw it's still a better camera than Red

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Jul 2015 08:17:02 No.2624894 Report

Quoted By: >>2625081

>>2624517
>shoot h264 4:2:0 8k.
>downscale without downscaling chroma.
>get 4:4:4 colorspace.
the same thing is happening with 4k to 1080p downscale right now.
even if you don't have 4k monitor you will benefit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Jul 2015 08:56:03 No.2624909 Report

Quoted By:

>>2624884
Because you own both these cameras?
Face it, you're a faggoty little video fanboy who will never use this sort of equipment.

Can you explain what's not good about the red?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Jul 2015 11:34:19 No.2624967 Report

Quoted By:

>>2624084
>a BMCC for example will shit all over an A7s /5DmkII any day.
>implying bmcc has more dr then A7 series
>implying bmcc can shoot in moonlight

Fucking pleb.

>The only reason why retards dislike M43 is because of the myth of "lol no DoF!! i need muh DoF!!! otherwise how will people know that i have a good camera? bokeh is everything >:("

Well it is to people who have none.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Jul 2015 15:32:40 No.2625081 Report

Quoted By: >>2625100

>>2624894
am i missing something as to why shooting 4:2:0 8k is somehow better for you than just using a 4:4:4 pipeline and proxying? because with h.264, you're still going to get quality loss in-camera; h.264 is a lossy codec, so it'd make sense that it's going to look worse than raw (though this could be anywhere from imperceptibly to severely worse). downscaling from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 will fill in the blanks in color data, but any artifacting here would carry over to your downscale. a downscale won't fix stuff like macroblocking, but it will reduce its visibility, so there certainly exists the benefit of preventing people from looking to closely at your shitty 8k footage. but if you're getting quality loss anyway, then again: why not just record 4k 4:4:4 and export to h.264 at the end, where you can better control your quality?

moreover, if you care that little about your quality, why shoot at such a resolution to begin with?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Jul 2015 16:13:06 No.2625100 Report

Quoted By: >>2625128

>>2625081
because lugging a shogun is not fun.
because panasonic will deliver 8k by 2020.
because macroblocking can be filtered with a deblocker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Jul 2015 16:31:49 No.2625128 Report

Quoted By:

>>2625100
i concede on all those fronts. if it were my workflow, it'd be very different, but you know. do what you want.

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