/p/ - Photography » Thread #2666686

[209 / 16 / ?]

357KiB, 825x506, Screen Shot 2015-09-11 at 3.16.55 AM.png

Sony a7sII

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 09:17:23 No.2666686 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>2666688 >>2666730 >>2666746 >>2666747 >>2666864 >>2667057 >>2669844

Sony announced the a7sII.

http://nofilmschool.com/2015/09/sony-a7s-ii-mirrorless-internal-4k-1080p-120fps

/Specs/
>Full-frame 35mm 12.2 Megapixel Sensor
>3840 x 2160: 30 fps, 24 fps, 25 fps
>1920 x 1080: 120 fps, 100 fps
>1920 x 1080: 60 fps, 50 fps, 30 fps, 25 fps, 24 fps
>XAVC S 4K: 3840 x 2160 (30p/100Mbps, 30p/60Mbps, 24p/100Mbps, 24p/60Mbps)
>XAVC S HD: 1920 x 1080 (60p/50Mbps, 30p/50Mbps, 24p/50Mbps, 120p/100Mbps, 120p/60Mbps)
>AVCHD: 1920 x 1080 (60p/28Mbps/PS, 60i/24Mbps/FX, 60i/17Mbps/FH, 24p/24Mbps/FX, 24p/17Mbps/FH)
>MP4: 1920 x 1080 (60p/28Mbps, 30p/16Mbps), 1280 x 720 (30p/6Mbps)
>ISO 100 – 102400, Expandable to ISO 50-409600
>0.5" 2.36m-Dot XGA OLED Tru-Finder EVF
>S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3
>New Gamma Assist Display
>Enhanced Zebra Function
>HDMI Output: [NTSC] 3840 x 2160 (30p/24p) / 1920 x 1080 (60p/24p) / 1920 x 1080 (60i), YCbCr 4:2:2 8bit/ RGB 8bit
>4x/5x slow motion recording and full pixel readout without pixel binning in full-frame format
>5-Axis Image Stabilization
>30 Minute Clip Length
>Availability: Fall 2015
>Price: $3,000

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 09:20:08 No.2666688 Report

Quoted By: >>2666691

>>2666686
>S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3
I don't know what this is, but it's probably better than the Slog2 people were raving about.

Does the sensor itself have Back-Side Illumination?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 09:31:59 No.2666691 Report

Quoted By: >>2670135

>>2666688

Slog3 gives a boost of 1.5 stops of DR over Slog2.

Not sure about the back illumination, but I *almost* want to assume so since its pushing 4k, however the A7RII has a 42mp sensor which it benefits it from more, compared to 12 on this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 10:28:38 No.2666699 Report

Quoted By: >>2666753

expected something a bit more wacky tbh

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 12:19:27 No.2666730 Report

Quoted By: >>2666739

>>2666686
>a7s ii
>no a7000
apsc is kill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 12:39:56 No.2666739 Report

Quoted By:

They really kept it secret this time around. But not sure about
>don't know if BSI
>CDAF rather than PDAF
>Still no clean 10-bit (not too much of an issue, but BIONZ X is due for an upgrade)
>Stated 14-bit raw stills but not sure that that actually means
Seems like the A7 line will finally shine once Sony decides to upgrade the image processor. I'm guessing it's also a reason for the compressed raw, which isn't much of an issue for non-pixel peepers. I mean, what are you even going to peep at with 12MP images?

>>2666730
fugg i actually wanted to upgrade my NEX-6.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 12:49:15 No.2666741 Report

Quoted By:

so can it take photos or what

let's see 'em

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 12:57:57 No.2666745 Report

Quoted By: >>2666880

I think a couple of things have changed since their last lineup.
A7 = all purpose workhorse
A7R = Landscape
A7S = Low Light

A7ii = Cheap all purpose workhorse
A7Rii = Expensive all purpose workhorse
A7Sii = Low Light

This makes their line up a lot more complete in my opinion. I like the new direction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 13:02:00 No.2666746 Report

Quoted By: >>2666750

>>2666686

Meh. Disappointing. They just chucked in IBIS and made 4k internal. Sony is really milking it these days.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Sony_-SLT-A57_HongKong_2.jpg, 55KiB, 450x464

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 13:04:18 No.2666747 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666686
iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s+, Galaxy Note 6, Galaxy Note 6 Edge users confirmed for suicide watch!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 13:07:57 No.2666750 Report

Quoted By: >>2666789

>>2666746
Those are the 2 main features that everybody wanted when the A7S launched though. I'd say they listened pretty well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 13:16:37 No.2666753 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666699
I think there is a natural explanation to why people were expecting more.

Take A7 and A7R as example. These two's sensors were sold off to third parties such as Nikon. So these paid for themselves and where fully profitable after 1 product cycle.

Take the A7S in comparison. This was kept Sony exclusive, and the sensor might not have sold as big volume as the other two camera sensors, so Sony had to use this Sensor for 2 product cycles to make the economy work.

The A7Rii will most likely be the same situation as A7S. It's an exclusive 1st party product, so it won't pay off after 1 product cycle, but will need 2 cycles.

Hence the future A7Riii will most likely use the same 42 Mp sensor as the A7Rii.
Whereas the future A7Siii might have a completely redesigned sensor since the A7S sensor had 2 cycles by that time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 13:41:33 No.2666769 Report

Quoted By: >>2666775 >>2666778

A few Qs

Has the ISO performance improved at all even if the ISO number has not increased?

Should anyone complain about 12.2 being the "S" standard?

A semi follow up from the second Question should this be considered a movie camera instead of a stills camera?

Will 5 Axis stabilization work with third party lenses?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 13:46:46 No.2666775 Report

Quoted By: >>2666823

>>2666769
I think you know the answers to all those questions already.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 13:54:23 No.2666778 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666769
>Should anyone complain about 12.2 being the "S" standard?

considering this is almost exclusively a camera intended for video it looks like, it doesn't make a difference

its a shame though because for photos that does definitely make a difference for prints larger than postcards

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 14:18:31 No.2666789 Report

Quoted By: >>2666811 >>2666857 >>2668259

>>2666750
>when the A7S launched though

And they should have been included in the original a7s. The a7sII is really just a slight incremental refresh. Nothing revolutionary or groundbreaking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 14:20:52 No.2666792 Report

Quoted By: >>2666811 >>2666857 >>2666914 >>2667000

>be Sony
>move position of shutter button
>fix a few firmware bugs
>announce it as a new model

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 14:51:52 No.2666811 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666789
>>2666792
The bait is hard and in full force today.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 15:12:43 No.2666823 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666775

I dont know I really dont know :(

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 16:49:12 No.2666857 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666792
>>2666789
>new version of an existing model

marinated cucumber resolution pun !!0Z+XAssRGPW

marinated cucumber resolution pun !!0Z+XAssRGPW Fri 11 Sep 2015 17:05:27 No.2666864 Report

Quoted By: >>2666881

>>2666686
Wasn't the original A7s released like 6 months ago

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 17:36:39 No.2666880 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666745

I think you mean

>A7Sii = Expensive Low Light

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 17:38:26 No.2666881 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666864
April 2014-ish

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 18:39:42 No.2666914 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666792
>be canon
>make the exact same camera
>add a s, i, ii
>announce it as a new model
at least sonyggers get a different shutter button.

rubber shoes in motion !FwDS1IFr..

rubber shoes in motion !FwDS1IFr.. Fri 11 Sep 2015 18:46:46 No.2666916 Report

Quoted By:

Was hoping for a slight pickle bump. But then I remember things were just fine with a 10mp rabal.

Basically all I need now is confirmation that 5d4 will indeed be shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 20:57:26 No.2666993 Report

Quoted By: >>2667001

will the price of the a7s drop you think?

Anonymous !!uPiHYFPeJke

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1379618610442fixed.gif, 194KiB, 443x600

Anonymous !!uPiHYFPeJke Fri 11 Sep 2015 21:06:56 No.2667000 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666792
Sony=/=Apple of the camera industry

>implying it won't sell like hot cake

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 21:10:59 No.2667001 Report

Quoted By: >>2667019

>>2666993
Yes. Just like how the price of the a7 and a7r have gone down (albeit the a7r hasn't dropped too much). The used market is a lot cheaper, you can find an a7r for like $1200.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1358380199572.jpg, 17KiB, 210x230

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 21:41:26 No.2667019 Report

Quoted By: >>2667023 >>2667034 >>2667050

>>2667001
>The used market

>buying a used piece of electronics
>2012+3

>buying shit some greasyass gearfagwhore salivated and cummed all over before moving on to his next disposable electronic trinket

i bet you like to pickup used fuck-off underwear from goodwill too, don't you?

pleberifical

Muhmegapickels !!0Z+XAssRGPW

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 12867765772.jpg, 113KiB, 960x619

Muhmegapickels !!0Z+XAssRGPW Fri 11 Sep 2015 21:49:27 No.2667023 Report

Quoted By: >>2667027

>>2667019
>paying a premium because autismal fear of germs and cooties

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO AbsolutelyDisgusting.jpg, 13KiB, 240x320

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 21:55:00 No.2667027 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667023
>not paying for virginal tech
>wanting another man's used goods

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 21:57:47 No.2667034 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667019
I know it's a troll so I'll give you a 10/10

But anyways
There's next to no point on buying new in the modern digital market unless you want and NEED the end all be all newest performance.

Just like a week ago I found a Canon 100mm 2.8 IS L Macro for 450€, brand fucking new with all the packaging and original bags. I could have never justified buying it new.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 22:08:23 No.2667050 Report

Quoted By: >>2667071 >>2667090

>>2667019
>search used.
>find some soccer mom who is selling the camera she used to shoot timmys soccer games.
>200 actuations.
>salivate knowing I can get the camera for half the price of retail.
>extra features include: warm boob sweat touching the display on a summers day.
>possible chance of her rubbing her cooch on it.
>get off immediately. buy camera.
>didn't have to spend full retail like some pompous who think it matters.
>go back to ebay and buy some used stained panties to jerk off into.

good day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 22:18:54 No.2667057 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666686
What's about rolling shutter? It was the biggest flaw of a7s and without global shutter or drastically reduced rolling, it will be worthless upgrade.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 22:22:26 No.2667061 Report

Quoted By:

Pretty glad I didn't hold my breath and just got the A7rii.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 22:35:11 No.2667071 Report

Quoted By: >>2667076

>>2667050
kek

>>200 actuations.
I'm seeing a used 7S with a little in excess of 2,800 shutter acts for the equivalent of $1580 USD or so (retails for about $2,220 without discount).

Is that a taker?
They don't come up used often in my country.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 22:41:40 No.2667076 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667071
bretty good deal imo

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 23:09:31 No.2667090 Report

Quoted By: >>2667102 >>2667139

>>2667050
Realistic story only that usually it's a soccer dad

but still, real story time:
>want to go up to fullframe
>can't really really afford it though, but just barely
>check out used cameras
>Canon 5d2 with 4000 actuations
>850€
>wat

Well, it's not TOO under the average price, but usually they go for 950-1000 if they have less than 5k actuations.

>meet the guy
>old fuck who knows little about photography, bought it for family occasions and all that shit
>didn't use it much, "too heavy"
>he's switching over to Fuji
>includes a 16gb sandisk CF, a holster-like bag and a second original battery.

Okay.jpg
He'll probably sell his Fuji like new in the coming years to "switch to Sony" if he doesn't die before that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Sep 2015 23:27:12 No.2667102 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667090
kek

This is why I love the elderly. They have the money to buy shit, use it a couple times then sell it.

There is a local group for selling foto gear and the likes. So many people will just sell their old shit. One that stands out the most is a soccer mom selling her 5DMKII with the 24-105 lens for like $1300 or so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 00:17:11 No.2667119 Report

Quoted By: >>2667127 >>2667131

>A7sii
>Still using XGA VF
>Leica point-and-shoot is using 3.6 million dot EVF
fucking Leica privilege ...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 00:47:54 No.2667127 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667119
>less magnification
>not T* coated

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 00:51:45 No.2667131 Report

Quoted By: >>2667210

>>2667119
>implying you would notice the difference

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 01:03:16 No.2667139 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667090
I have seen a 60D, lenses and speedlights go for 850 USD. I am half tempted to buy it and sell it back to KEH for $$$ (but I am thinking it might be stolen for that low price)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 03:00:25 No.2667204 Report

Quoted By: >>2667218

>be Sony
>release new model every two months

How is this okay?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 03:35:43 No.2667210 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667131

NO. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

YOU CAN'T SAY THAT EVF IS BETTER THAN OVF BUT THEN A BETTER EVF ISN'T BETTER THAN A WORSE EVF.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 04:13:19 No.2667218 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667204
>How is this okay?
If thirsty, talent-less whores keep buying your latest, you're gonna keep churning out each incremental step.

Protip:
Sony has the ability to release the A7/R/S iii,iv,etc., etc., ad infinitum., right now but chooses to release each incremental step in their research flow because they can make more cashes from those that have that consumerist compulsion to buy the latest model.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 05:12:53 No.2667231 Report

Quoted By: >>2667245

>ps3 has no games
>a7 has no lens

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 06:28:01 No.2667245 Report

Quoted By: >>2667262

>>2667231
Meanwhile in reality.
Wii and Wii u both die in PS3's lifetime
Nikon is slowly dying as it can't get neither the A7S sensor nor the A7Rii sensor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 06:29:58 No.2667246 Report

Quoted By: >>2670011

>mirrorless
Into the trash it goes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 08:46:30 No.2667262 Report

Quoted By: >>2667263

>>2667245

The Wii outsold the ps3 by an order of magnitude.

Nikon outsells anything Sony makes by a similar amount, and Sony relies far more on Nikon than the other way around. They don't even use a Sony sensor in their top shelf product.

but it must be nice living in Sonygeria.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 08:55:08 No.2667263 Report

Quoted By: >>2667264

>>2667262
And yet the wii still died, it's the real no game console today in 2015.

Nikon, huge sales drop, what was it, 17% compared to previous year?
Their top line DSLR uses 2nd rank sony sensor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 08:59:16 No.2667264 Report

Quoted By: >>2667265

>>2667263

No, retard, their top of the line camera uses a Toshiba sensor.

The Wii still died, just like the PS3 died. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 09:01:26 No.2667265 Report

Quoted By: >>2667266 >>2667270 >>2667677

>>2667264
The D810 is their top DXO camera. It's a 2nd rank Sony sensor, how long will the Nikon enthusiast be okay with that?

The PS3 is actually still alive and kicking, getting games left and right, up and down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 09:03:03 No.2667266 Report

Quoted By: >>2667268

>>2667265

>dxo

k.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 09:08:26 No.2667268 Report

Quoted By: >>2667273

>>2667266
How long will you tolerate being 2nd rank before it's enough?
Do you have any ETA as to when Sony and Canon will let you have their top sensors?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screen Shot 2015-09-12 at 10.09.00.png, 155KiB, 2410x466

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 09:09:36 No.2667270 Report

Quoted By: >>2667271

>>2667265

no

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 09:10:31 No.2667271 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667270
"their" meaning Nikon. It's "their" top camera.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 09:13:42 No.2667273 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667268

>14-bit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Sep 2015 09:27:04 No.2667280 Report

Quoted By:

inb4 overheat

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1441997668799.gif, 3MiB, 500x500

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 03:54:54 No.2667642 Report

Quoted By: >>2667644

>didn't fix rolling shutter
>didn't fix slow af
>didn't increase resolution
>didn't increase iso
>didn't increase useable iso
>didn't fix overheating
>didn't fix raw compression
>no fast pdaf compatibility with Canon lenses like a7rII
>same shit different shell with a newly placed shutter button position as it's main feature
>charge an extra $1000
>Sony fanboys still worship it

Sony is Apple now. Ironic since they used to be the cheap affordable underdogs a few years back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 04:00:01 No.2667644 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667642
>posts Anita
This is bait on a different level.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 05:39:37 No.2667664 Report

Quoted By: >>2667665 >>2667670 >>2667694

Daily reminder an A9 pro-tier camera is still in the works.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 05:41:58 No.2667665 Report

Quoted By: >>2667688

>>2667664

lol, then they'll REALLY have no excuse to charge three grand for this deprecated bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 05:56:38 No.2667670 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667664
>A9 pro-tier camera is still in the works.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just added dual SD card slots and charged $7000 for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 06:22:06 No.2667677 Report

Quoted By: >>2667712 >>2667736

>>2667265
>using dxo as the metric for a top camera
The D4 is Nikon's top of the line model, and it uses a Renesas sensor, not a Sony sensor. Also, Nikon has a history of getting better results out of Sony sensors than Sony themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 06:59:46 No.2667688 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667665
Just wait until Hasselblad rebadgeds it, slaps some wood on it, and charges $25k for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 07:25:45 No.2667694 Report

Quoted By: >>2667737

>>2667664
all i want is this sensor with ovf and a real body

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 08:27:04 No.2667712 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667677

>Nikon has a history of getting better results out of Sony sensors than Sony themselves.

Pretty much everyone does.

See also: Pentax, Apple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:03:19 No.2667736 Report

Quoted By: >>2667739 >>2667741

>>2667677
>The D4 is Nikon's top of the line model, and it uses a Renesas sensor, not a Sony sensor.
The sensor is uses is still a 2nd rate sensor compared to the A7S's.
So how is this any different from the point I previously made?

>Nikon has a history of getting better results
Again, even if this was true, so what? They are still crippled by not having the best sensor.
Their 2nd rate sensors don't get better results than Sony's top sensors. That's the more critical point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:06:36 No.2667737 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667694
It's an exclusive 1st party sensor.

So you would need to wait until A7Siii gets an updated sensor, then you can get the A7Sii sensor on your "real" body.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:15:16 No.2667739 Report

Quoted By: >>2667740

>>2667736
Homie, you're arguing that because a car can't go 175 mph, it can't be used to drive on a highway with a 75 mph speed limit.

Even including things like Canon, Oly, and Pentax's low grade sensors from five years ago are perfectly capable of doing what most photographers need their camera to do.

Most people who are actually out there using their cameras realize that the differences between most camera sensors are minimal as far as real world results go. Yes, there are some edge cases where certain sensors definitely do better, but again, that's not addressing the needs of the majority of the market.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:19:54 No.2667740 Report

Quoted By: >>2667742

>>2667739
The Nikon sales drops are speaking for themselves. Things that are good enough for you might not be good enough for others.

The notion that Sony's life and well-being depends on Nikon is hilarious at worst.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:26:02 No.2667741 Report

Quoted By: >>2667743

>>2667736
> best sensor
> 12mp

lmfao

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:26:50 No.2667742 Report

Quoted By: >>2667745

>>2667740
>The Nikon sales drops are speaking for themselves.
Methinks you don't know enough about the market to interpret what they're saying. Here's a hint: the camera market is shrinking.
>Things that are good enough for you might not be good enough for others.
And, knucklehead, the opposite is just as true. What's even more true is that even the shittiest digital camera on the market right now can do almost everything everyone needs. No matter how much pixelwankers like you want to spew performance numbers, this remains true.
>The notion that Sony's life and well-being depends on Nikon is hilarious at worst.
Apple cider is tasty.

See, I can post random, unrelated sentences too!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:27:14 No.2667743 Report

Quoted By: >>2667744

>>2667741
12Mp is a good min-maxing for 4K content.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:30:50 No.2667744 Report

Quoted By: >>2667747 >>2667749

>>2667743
But for still images its pretty low unless you need the ISO performance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:31:33 No.2667745 Report

Quoted By: >>2667748

>>2667742
>unrelated sentences
But it's the basis of our discussion. Don't butt into a discussion if you don't understand the root of it.

>Here's a hint: the camera market is shrinking.
But some camera manufacturers don't lose sales like Nikon did.
Their crowd is in the pro/enthusiast segment, and the only explanation is they moved elsewhere to a different camera maker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:31:41 No.2667746 Report

Quoted By:

A new sensor comes out, and everyone acts like the whole industry is changing... funny stuff.

It's evolutionary, not revolutionary. Relax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:35:12 No.2667747 Report

Quoted By: >>2667760

>>2667744
But the reality is, if Nikon could have the A7Riii and A7Sii sensor, they would have taken them faster than you can take a snapshot. The problem for them is, they can't. And that's going to be an advantage to Sony's cameras from here on out. Which was the point.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO fastest_growing.png, 37KiB, 655x254

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:42:00 No.2667748 Report

Quoted By: >>2667750

>>2667745
>>unrelated sentences
>But it's the basis of our discussion. Don't butt into a discussion if you don't understand the root of it.
...you're showing IRL signs of an autism spectrum disorder.
>>Here's a hint: the camera market is shrinking.
>But some camera manufacturers don't lose sales like Nikon did.
Pic related. Also, you're seeing a MASSIVE constriction of the compact camera market, something that comprises much more of Canikon's share than Sony's.
>Their crowd is in the pro/enthusiast segment, and the only explanation is they moved elsewhere to a different camera maker.
Nope. There's not much churn in the ILC market. Most people invest in a given system and then stick with that ecosystem for a *long* time. Sony is getting new sales, not people jumping ship.

Also, there is no "pro/enthusiast" segment. Those are two *very* different market segments, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Sony's market is the enthusiast market. It's not the pro market -- they still lack the lens selection to make a serious dent in the pro market, it's getting there, but not this year.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:46:41 No.2667749 Report

Quoted By: >>2667763

>>2667744
Eh not really. 12mp is ideal for 99% of photos if you don't crop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:49:01 No.2667750 Report

Quoted By: >>2667751

>>2667748
And this is your problem: You finally understood that you missed all and every context of the discussion when you butted into it, and now resort to personal attacks to weasel yourself out.

>Also, you're seeing a MASSIVE constriction of the compact camera market, something that comprises much more of Canikon's share
Meanwhile back in reality, Canon kept up its sales well. Nikon did not. You can't use that excuse.

Everything you point out has a few wrongs here and there, it's just a sign you're desperate to keep up in a pointless argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:53:34 No.2667751 Report

Quoted By: >>2667752 >>2667753

>>2667750
...umm
>Despite the increase, it failed to meet analysts' expectations. Canon's imaging business saw its operating profit fall 6.2% year-on-year, with a 58.3 billion yen operating profit. Sales in that segment fell by 7.3% YOY. By region, the biggest decline in sales came from the Americas, down 11.9% from 2013.

>Smartphones are cited as a big cause for the slowdown in camera sales. In 2015, the maker anticipates its compact camera sales will only hit 7.8 million units, which is a substantial decrease from 2014's 9.03 million, and predicts interchangeable lens camera sales will remain relatively flat at 6.4 million units. Still, Canon expects that this year will prove favorable as far as sales go, with the company estimating it'll bring in 3.9 trillion yen, a year-on-year increase of 4.6-percent.

Canon as a company overall saw growth, but not as much growth as was expected, and there was constriction in camera sales.

Try getting some facts friend.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:55:23 No.2667752 Report

Quoted By: >>2667754

>>2667751
I should also point out that you're seeing much stronger market proliferation from smaller competitors like Oly and Pentax which are also taking hunks out of Canikon's new consumer sales, but nah, you want to imagine that's only Sony.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:56:26 No.2667753 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667751
6-7% is fine. It's showing a resilience which Nikon doesn't have, they have it far, far worse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:57:56 No.2667754 Report

Quoted By: >>2667755

>>2667752
>but nah, you want to imagine that's only Sony
This is all inside your head. It would be more useful to you if you could point to the post where I said this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 10:59:58 No.2667755 Report

Quoted By: >>2667756

>>2667754
>But some camera manufacturers don't lose sales like Nikon did.
>Their crowd is in the pro/enthusiast segment, and the only explanation is they moved elsewhere to a different camera maker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:01:27 No.2667756 Report

Quoted By: >>2667757

>>2667755
And where does that specifically say Sony?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:07:28 No.2667757 Report

Quoted By: >>2667758

>>2667756
Ah, going to play that game?
Yes, you did not mention Sony specifically in that post; however, if you follow the post thread to two post prior of you'll find:

>The notion that Sony's life and well-being depends on Nikon is hilarious at worst.
Apple cider is tasty.

>See, I can post random, unrelated sentences too!

The only two companies that were being addressed were Nikon and Sony. You were clearly stating that Sony was taking Nikon's customers.

But nah, you're going to try to play it off and continue to shift the topic to anywhere/anything you might almost be correct on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:13:24 No.2667758 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667757
>however, if you follow the post thread to two post prior of you'll find:
You would find a response to the chain of arguments that imply Sony is so desperately dependent on Nikon.
Which you know yourself very well this is blatantly bullshit.

>You were clearly stating that Sony was taking Nikon's customers.
No, I specifically said "different camera maker" for a good reason. Because the opposite implication was the sales went to smartphones, which I disagree with. The markets who deal with Full Frame and APS-C would never "upgrade" to smartphone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:34:07 No.2667760 Report

Quoted By: >>2667762

>>2667747
> They would have taken them in a heartbeat

Too bad this a completely baseless claim.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:40:00 No.2667762 Report

Quoted By: >>2667764 >>2667768

>>2667760
With the rate Nikon is bleeding at, I wouldn't be surprised if they were desperate for Canon's new sensor as well. The problem is just, it's a Canon exclusive sensor.

Of the big three, Canon and Sony are the two who have less dire prospects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:40:03 No.2667763 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667749
> 12MP is ideal for 99% of photos
> 99%

No. It isn't. Not when higher resolution bodies exist for people who want them, even without cropping.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:42:00 No.2667764 Report

Quoted By: >>2667765 >>2667786

>>2667762
What new Canon sensor? It must not be the 5ds one that got outclassed by the 3 year old 36mp sensor in the d810.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:45:02 No.2667765 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667764
5DS is better in certain situations, worse in other situations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:53:24 No.2667768 Report

Quoted By: >>2667769 >>2667770

>>2667762
Man you sure are eager to bash Nikon. Too bad they are not going anywhere anytime soon. Neither is Sony, despite how much you hear about how much they are suffering; according to the internet Sony was supposed to go under like 2 or 3 years ago.

> Nikon is desperate for sensors
Just because they outsource now, doesn't mean they cannot develop their own sensors anytime they want.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 11:58:33 No.2667769 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667768
this guy's right i don't cameras are even the majority of nikon's business

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 12:00:08 No.2667770 Report

Quoted By: >>2667803

>>2667768
>doesn't mean they cannot develop their own sensors anytime they want.
That's really, really hard to do when you start from scratch and need to catch up with the others.
You need to poach all the good engineers from the other sensor designers, and that's costly as hell. You also need sensor fabs that cost 5 billion dollars each.

Nikon isn't going anywhere. But they won't be catching up to the other two anytime in the close future.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 12:58:31 No.2667786 Report

Quoted By: >>2667801

>>2667764
Both cameras are MP count whores that perform well only on a tripod. This mp race has to fucking end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:22:55 No.2667801 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667786
> only perform well on a tripod

Err, no. I own a d810, it serves me just fine in multiple handheld situations. The 5ds may be different, although I've never used it. Even so, if I do most of my work on a tripod, I would vastly prefer a body that is rich in resolution, detail and dynamic range, over a low res body with inflated iso performance. You need to understand that photographers want a camera that excels at being the right tool for the job, not one that's "just fine".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:29:02 No.2667803 Report

Quoted By: >>2667807 >>2667821

>>2667770
What "catching up" does Nikon have to do outside of sales performance?

They continue to put out excellent bodies and lenses so..
> inb4 muh A7R2 and 7s2

You cant compare a 7s to a d4, you can compare a 7r to the D800 line though all mirrored cameras are still plagued with some issues; ie awful battery life.

> but muh sensor tech
Wow Sony makes a couple nice sensors and this is supposed to be the end of Nikon? Top fucking lel.

> really hard to do
I dont think Nikon is having the issue with sensor manufacturing that you think they do...but its cute that you think you know exactly what that company has planned and what options they have going forward.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:38:21 No.2667807 Report

Quoted By: >>2667810

>>2667803
The D800 uses a Sony sensor...
Sony doesn't just make " a couple of nice sensors" The sensors in every high end Nikon DSLR is bought from Sony.

>I dont think Nikon is having the issue with sensor manufacturing that you think they do...
They don't have problems because for high end DSLRs, they aren't doing it at ALL. But if Sony starts saying "no you can't have these sensors" (there is no evidence that this will happen) then there will be issues.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:45:29 No.2667810 Report

Quoted By: >>2667813

>>2667807
>The sensors in every high end Nikon DSLR is bought from Sony.
I bet you post on /v/ in anti-xbox one threads and hate on anything that isn't a vaio on /g/.

>Since you're too thick to understand this dismissal, I'll explain: you're stupid, wrong, and being obviously a brandfaggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:48:15 No.2667813 Report

Quoted By: >>2667814 >>2667817

>>2667810
I shoot fuji...

Would you care to explain WHY I'm wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:50:11 No.2667814 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667813
No friend. Educate your ignorant ass. You are factually incorrect. You didn't include that many facts in your post, so it can't be that hard to figure out where you're wrong. Hell, it's even spelled out in this very thread! You don't even have to bother with Google.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:53:27 No.2667817 Report

Quoted By: >>2667823

>>2667813

I'll do it for you, faggot:

>Renesas

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:57:16 No.2667821 Report

Quoted By: >>2667824

>>2667803
>You cant compare a 7s to a d4
Yes I can. The D4 would have benefited greatly from the A7S sensor. But they're just not allowed to, because those sensors are not for sale.
By the same logic, the D810 is benefiting from the A7R sensor.

>Wow Sony makes a couple nice sensors and this is supposed to be the end of Nikon?
>I dont think Nikon is having the issue with sensor manufacturing that you think they do
Wrong.
Nikon's troubles come from not being privileged to the best Sony sensors.

They will not be able to catch up unless they overbid Sony's salary to their engineers and steal them.
Second of all, only 1 company in the world has advanced multibillion dollar Fab that can produce Full Frame BSI sensors. And that company isn't Nikon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:59:32 No.2667823 Report

Quoted By: >>2667831

>>2667817
Show me an example of their BSI production capability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 14:59:39 No.2667824 Report

Quoted By: >>2667830

>>2667821
>They will not be able to catch up unless they overbid Sony's salary to their engineers and steal them.
You have no fucking clue how businesses work.

>Protip: there is literally *nothing* about the Sony sensors that Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Oly, etc. engineers do not know or understand.

How are you so consistently full of stupid?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:05:38 No.2667830 Report

Quoted By: >>2667832

>>2667824
That is how business work. Engineers don't grow on trees, the best of them move to the companies that pay them the best.

>there is literally *nothing* about the Sony sensors that Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Oly, etc. engineers do not know or understand.
Sensor production is closer related to microchip production. It's a different beast than designing optics.
You don't just cook up a sensor in your home lab, you need the right tools, the right research on semi-conductor materials, the right grasp of nanotechnology. It's not enough to dream up a sensor, you need the research to be able to produce them as well.

The best fabs with the best researches will have the best patents and the best sensors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:07:32 No.2667831 Report

Quoted By: >>2667833

>>2667823

Oh, you're right... Sony was the first company to reduce costs of manufacturing an existing technology. Nobody else is going to be able to do that.

There aren't currently 4 companies manufacturing, them either... nope.

>YFW it becomes the industry norm just like the transition to CMOS

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:08:28 No.2667832 Report

Quoted By: >>2667835

>>2667830
You keep using words and have no clue what they mean.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:09:48 No.2667833 Report

Quoted By: >>2667838

>>2667831
Come on. Show me Renesas' BSI production capability.
I would like to know how big BSI sensors they can produce and when they were capable of mass producing them.

>reduce costs of manufacturing
Opposite. BSI increase the cost of manufacturing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:10:50 No.2667835 Report

Quoted By: >>2667836

>>2667832
If there is anything that's too hard for you to understand, just ask and I'll clarify.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:13:57 No.2667836 Report

Quoted By: >>2667839

>>2667835
I'm not the one who somehow thinks that hiring away engineers somehow nullifies patents and gives you access to another company's research.

The best part is you even mention patents at the end of your post not even once stopping to wonder just what effect that they might be currently having on sensor design, but no, please, keep educating us in the ways of business.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:17:11 No.2667838 Report

Quoted By: >>2667848

>>2667833

>Opposite. BSI increase the cost of manufacturing.

No shit. Are you high?

Clearly I was saying Sony put lots of R&D into reducing the cost of BSI fab, which is why they are now in production for consumer electronics.

Try thinking before you react.

As for Renesas: I believe you have very little knowledge of industry. Using your logic, the first companies to produce things should still be on top, which is not the case at all. If anything, they take the burden of trailblazing for everyone else.

One modern example would be saying that since AMD made the first consumer dual core CPU, Intel is dead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:17:12 No.2667839 Report

Quoted By: >>2667843

>>2667836
>I'm not the one who somehow thinks that hiring away engineers somehow nullifies patents
I don't either. But you need their help if you're going to go have a chance to catch up.
Alternatively, you can hire other engineers who are even better than the ones working in Sony's fabs.
But I have no idea where you can find those.

>The best part is you even mention patents at the end of your post
So what if I did?
You're going to need a bunch of these process engineers if you're going to have a shot at your own patents. Without them you're screwed. I'm really just stating the obvious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:18:54 No.2667842 Report

Quoted By:

Zenith is currently shitting all over Samsung televisions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:20:34 No.2667843 Report

Quoted By: >>2667850

>>2667839
HEY GUYS!
Breaking news: Nikon can't into patents.

Also only process engineers can into the kinds of patents that will save Nikon!

Seriously guy, you have no clue what you're talking about. It's like you accidentally clicked on a Forbes article while fapping to your high school crush and now think you've got an MBA.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:24:10 No.2667848 Report

Quoted By: >>2667852 >>2667857 >>2668111

>>2667838
>Clearly I was saying Sony put lots of R&D into reducing the cost of BSI fab
That is also correct.

But to even get that far, you need to know-how to even make possible the production of full frame BSI. This is the first babystep, and Nikon doesn't have this.

>AMD made the first consumer dual core CPU
Intel made dual core consumer CPU before AMD did. They also made the first Quadcore, the first 12 core, the first 18(?) core, etc.
AMD doesn't have the right technology to catch up with them. AMD is the fitting analogy to Nikon in this example.

Anyway, please show me what your great white hope Renesas is capable of in BSI sensor production. I'm starting to think you're avoiding the subject.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:28:28 No.2667850 Report

Quoted By: >>2667855

>>2667843
>Nikon can't into patents.
We're taling about microchip design/production patents here.
Their current crop of employees were educated in other fields, everything from marketing, to optics, to electronics.
But microchip design and microchip manufacturing are two different beast to electronics.

They need to hire that expertise from the outside. Since I doubt I had microchip Fab employees sitting around, idling during all these decades.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:29:52 No.2667852 Report

Quoted By: >>2667854

>>2667848
No no, all they need to do is throw tons and tons of money at tons and tons of people who have tons and tons of talent in a really general vague "lack of a real handle on the situation" sort of way, and they'll be the best! God, don't be so stupid, everybody.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:32:40 No.2667854 Report

Quoted By: >>2667859

>>2667852
>all they need to do is throw tons and tons of money at tons and tons of people who have tons and tons of talent
That would give them a fighting chance. But there is no guarantee they could catch up.

Again, I'm just stating the obvious. Nikon owns 0 fabs, they don't have the production expertise. They're going to need help from the outside.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:32:50 No.2667855 Report

Quoted By: >>2667858

>>2667850
I guess no one at Toyota has a degree in mechanical engineering...it's some new Japanese management strategy where they hire experts in every field except for the one of their core competency.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:33:31 No.2667857 Report

Quoted By: >>2667861

>>2667848

>Nikon doesn't have this

You realize you're talking to 2 or 3 different people, right? I have made 3 posts ITT.

Nikon designs sensors, and contracts production. I understand this.

Sony didn't invent BSI. They tackled the cost aspect. There are also other manufacturers currently producing, did you know that? Sony just happens to be the first to produce for DSLR.

This will quickly become the industry standard, just like every other advance made in CCD / CMOS since the beginning. Much bigger problems than this have been overcome already.

This is simply progress, Anon. And now that Sony is proving the gains, the resources will be allocated by everyone else, once again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:35:06 No.2667858 Report

Quoted By: >>2667862

>>2667855
Wrong analogy. They've been buying sensors from other companies, so it makes sense they don't need employees who know how to design or manufacture them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:37:03 No.2667859 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667854
(I was being sarcastic. I realize that the idiot's arguments are so idiotic that you can't differentiate them from satire, so I'm sorry I wasn't more clear)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:40:41 No.2667861 Report

Quoted By: >>2667866

>>2667857
Don't worry about me, I don't have any problem taking on all of you.

>Nikon designs sensors, and contracts production.
Hmm, not quite.. Nikon contracts sensor designers, and contracts sensor production.

A good example of this is the D800. They contracted with Sony's sensor designers, then they contracted Sony's fabs to produce it for them.
For this reason, Nikon had exclusivity rights to that particular sensor, until the A7R came about.

But you understand the rest pretty well. I don't know who invented BSI.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:41:23 No.2667862 Report

Quoted By: >>2667864 >>2667867

>>2667858
No it doesn't. Not one iota of sense.

Outsourcing production is normal. These aren't the days of Standard Oil and the godking of vertical integration. Fuck, how many factories do you think any tech company owns? Or,let me guess, Foxconn designed the ipad and iPhone, right? You realize when it comes to certain types of tech, competitors will as a rule, use the exact same manufacturing plants?

Again, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:44:15 No.2667864 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667862
>competitors will as a rule, use the exact same manufacturing plants?
Just to use an example, AMD don't have the right to use Intel's fabs.

Likewise, Nikon will have to cough up a ton of money to rent any of Sony's high end fabs. These fabs are already busy churning out Smartphone sensors, so I don't even think Sony wants to rent out the space to them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:44:34 No.2667866 Report

Quoted By: >>2667870

>>2667861

>taking on all of you

This is now a cringe thread.

Also:

>Not tripfagging while talking big

Sounds like do you have a problem, pussy.

But back to the argument: Nikon in fact designs the sensors fabbed by Renesas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:44:58 No.2667867 Report

Quoted By: >>2667868 >>2667927

>>2667862
So you are under the impression that Nikon is designing the sensors, and that Sony is producing them for them? It's weird how Sony uses the sensors in their own cameras first, and then gives them to Nikon after a short time. Do you have any evidence or citation to support your claim? Or is it just how you "feel"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:46:52 No.2667868 Report

Quoted By: >>2667870 >>2667874

>>2667867

Ummm... Nikon designs sensors for Renesas to build. Also, they hold sensor patents. Look them up for yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:49:37 No.2667870 Report

Quoted By: >>2667878

>>2667866
>>2667868
>Nikon in fact designs the sensors fabbed by Renesas.
That doesn't quite align with how the D800 came about.

If Nikon had engineers to design sensors, they probably wouldn't have asked Sony to design their 36 MP sensor.
The D4 sensor you're referring to, it's probably a different 3rd party team who was responsible for it.

This happens all the time in the electronics industry. They hire someone, for example IBM, to design a chip. IBM them sells them the license to produce said chip at particular fabs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:50:30 No.2667871 Report

Quoted By: >>2667876

No, guize! Nikon pays ppl to design sensors! They donet design them themselves, lul

Sony doesnt pay ppl. Mr. Sony draws the designs on his desk for free.

Everyone = FUKT by Sony

Sony flag over every company

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:52:48 No.2667873 Report

Quoted By: >>2667877 >>2669882

Sony needs Zeiss to get any good lenses.

>Is Sony kill?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:54:01 No.2667874 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667868
Which sensors? The D4s? The D810? The D600? The D750?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:54:09 No.2667876 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667871
Well, Sony needs to employ them under their own hand. That's actually much costlier.

Nikon's business model is more nimble. They can go from different contractors to different contractors. But this approach has its weaknesses, for example, they would need to contract the leading manufacturer if they want to best tech in their sensor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:56:19 No.2667877 Report

Quoted By: >>2668029 >>2669882

>>2667873
Sony has made 3 really good FE lenses so far without Zeiss.
The 90mm, the 28mm and the 70-200mm.

But yeah, they would be screwed without Zeiss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:56:27 No.2667878 Report

Quoted By: >>2667879

>>2667870
>f Nikon had engineers to design sensors, they probably wouldn't have asked Sony to design their 36 MP sensor.
Why would you make that assumption?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 15:57:55 No.2667879 Report

Quoted By: >>2667881

>>2667878
>Why would you make that assumption?
Because those kinds of engineers are expensive as hell. They are not babysitters, they will burn your pocket.

You don't hire them just so they can twiddle with their thumbs while you contract other engineers to do their job.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:05:19 No.2667881 Report

Quoted By: >>2667882

>>2667879
Yeah, you just let them sit there (actually there is a business case to do exactly that) and you don't put them to work on other projects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:07:34 No.2667882 Report

Quoted By: >>2667887 >>2667897

>>2667881
And is that actually happening? Is there any actual evidence for any of the crap being tossed out in the end of this thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:14:21 No.2667887 Report

Quoted By: >>2667896 >>2667897

>>2667882
Generally, the chip designer needs close familiarity with the process engineers at the microchip fab.
To design a market leading chip, the two need to work together and optimise the design to make it fit into the fab's manufacturing capabilities.

It's a bit of a haywire business model for Nikon if they actually employed those designers in-house. Because they don't own any fabs, and they seem to have closer relationship to Sony's fabs than any other.
It's very unlikely that they actually employ them in-house, given the circumstances.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:25:29 No.2667896 Report

Quoted By: >>2667899

>>2667887
So to summarize, no, there is no evidence to substantiate the bullshit in this thread.

Sony makes amazing sensors, all on their own. They use them, then, when they're a little old, they offer them up for sale to someone else. (Pentax, and Nikon) This helps to offset development costs, and introduces a new revenue stream with little risk to Sony, since they usually already have a newer better sensor on the way.

Your logic, borne of absolutely no experience in the camera/imaging industry, has no effect on what's actually happening in the world.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:25:31 No.2667897 Report

Quoted By: >>2667903

>>2667882
Tweedledee hasn't offered anything but idiotic conjecture based off of 19th century business practices, so no.
>>2667887
They really don't. Chip architecture is not the same thing as chip layout. Also, a process engineer wouldn't be involved in the design stage barring a few consultations for estimated costs with regard to fabrication between competing designs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:30:20 No.2667899 Report

Quoted By: >>2667933

>>2667896
>Sony makes amazing sensors, all on their own. They use them, then, when they're a little old, they offer them up for sale to someone else.
Almost. Sony has multiple business models going on. What you described here is for example the RX100 sensors.

For the more high end of their clients, they lease out their sensor design engineers as well. This would be an example of the D800.

You had a hard time understanding all this, so I don't blame you for being confused all along.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:37:47 No.2667903 Report

Quoted By: >>2667907

>>2667897
>Chip architecture is not the same thing as chip layout.
A microchips layout has everything to do with the architectural principles it's build on. I have no idea why you're trying to imply differently.

>Also, a process engineer wouldn't be involved in the design stage barring a few consultations for estimated costs
This is for the bottom dweller chips. Companies like Nikon, Canon, and Sony want the best of the best, which is a different best.

If you want to be the market leader, your designs must be perfectly optimised for your process.
And even this isn't enough.
To be an unreachable market leader, your process must be perfectly optimised for the goal of your designs as well.

The two are bound to each other at the very highest top-end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:45:00 No.2667907 Report

Quoted By: >>2667909

>>2667903
Do you even begin to know how a processor works?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:47:02 No.2667909 Report

Quoted By: >>2667921

>>2667907
Are you implying that Intel aren't optimising their fabs specifically for their CPU designs?

Do you actually believe any 3rd party Fab can produce a Core i7?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 16:57:27 No.2667921 Report

Quoted By: >>2667926

>>2667909
Which is layout, not architecture.

Also sperglord, there are exactly 3 fabs other than Intel, and yes, they could make any Intel chip exactly as Intel does. The question is why would they?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1.png, 124KiB, 1487x836

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 17:09:15 No.2667926 Report

Quoted By: >>2667955

>>2667921
>Which is layout, not architecture.
I can only repeat myself.
>A microchips layout has everything to do with the architectural principles it's build on. I have no idea why you're trying to imply differently.

>there are exactly 3 fabs other than Intel, and yes, they could make any Intel chip exactly as Intel does
This is blatantly false. And you clearly don't understand that Intel is designing their fabs in such a way that their process is ideal for the chips they produce.

Pic related. Should illustrate to you that different processes are optimised for different tasks.
This is the reason why Intel and Sony are the market leaders in their respective niches. They Fine-tune their Fabs exactly to their needs. This is made possible because the fab and the chip designers are closely tied together under the same company.

They have their fabs tuned for their needs.
Renesas and TSMC have their fabs tuned for EVERYBODY'S needs. And that's why their chips will fail at the high end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 17:10:19 No.2667927 Report

Quoted By: >>2667933 >>2667949

>>2667867
> Sony uses the sensor first

Except that part where the d800/d810 and d610/d750 sensors were used by Nikon first, not to mention the Nikons give higher quality files.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 17:11:48 No.2667933 Report

Quoted By: >>2667949

>>2667927
See>>2667899
Sony has different business models, that's why you guys argue different things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 17:53:23 No.2667949 Report

Quoted By: >>2667951

>>2667933
The thing is there's one guy arguing that Sony uses their sensors first exclusively and then gives them out afterward, citing the A7 and A7R as examples, when in fact it's the opposite as >>2667927 said.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 17:56:36 No.2667951 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667949
I believe that Anon is referring to their A7rii and A7S.

You're both right.. But it depends on the camera/sensor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 18:04:09 No.2667952 Report

Quoted By:

>itt: a bunch of american consumers arguing about japanese industrial logistics

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 18:15:13 No.2667955 Report

Quoted By: >>2667963

>>2667926
No, there literally just are three other fabs in the same market space as Intel. Period, end of story, full stop.

You asked if the other fabs could. Having the ability and it being economically feasible are two entirely different things. Yes, each fab optimizes for its designs, but optimizations are not relevant.

Further, I cannot be more clear layout is not the same as architecture. Architecture is how the components are connected to one another. Layout is actually plotting in physical space how this happens. There are many, many possible layouts for any given architecture with many reasons to go with any choice that's not got the smallest footprint (usually heat).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 18:18:27 No.2667957 Report

Quoted By:

FF 2 yrs:

BSI is standard practice. Every camera has glorious 100MP BSI sensor.

>Except Canon
>800MP
>Bottom of DxOMark

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 18:43:49 No.2667963 Report

Quoted By: >>2667974

>>2667955
>No, there literally just are three other fabs
Is there a reason why you've hesitated listing them so far? Don't be shy, I won't shoot you.

>Having the ability and it being economically feasible are two entirely different things
It's two sides of the same coin. If you're capable in theory, but in practice your wafers output 0 chips per wafer, you don't have that capability.

Furthermore, the chips also need to qualify for certain speeds. Optimisations are extremely relevant and critical for this.

>Yes, each fab optimizes for its designs
You mean Sony and Intel's fabs optimize for their designs. And that's it.
Nobody in the world is going to customize their fab just for Nikon's needs, and you are insanely naive for implying this.
Nikon try their best to optimise their designs for the Fabs they rent, but never the other way around.

>Further, I cannot be more clear layout is not the same as architecture
I'll give you an example since you are ignorant on this.
AMD tried to fuse two CPU cores into 1 core, by having two integer core share a floating point core. This would in theory allow them to save a lot of real estate on their wafer while at the same time save some power as well.
But the project went bad compared to its competitor. Why? Because it was a classic case of only optimising your design for your process, and lacking the optimisation of your Fab to fit into your design.

What did Intel do?
They redesigned their fab and invented newer processes which allowed them to gate off entire ic / cores in idle. This "architecture" as you put it, was developed explicitly for a very particular design: the design of the complete cores.
This is a classic case of the Fab being optimised for a design goal + a chip design being optimised for a particular Fab.
So the intel chip won, among the reasons where this interaction between process engineers and design engineers. Do you now understand of interaction between process engineers and chip designers?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 19:05:51 No.2667974 Report

Quoted By: >>2668007

>>2667963
>name them
Intel, TSMC, Samsung, and Global Foundries.
>two sides
Horseshit. Literal horseshit.
>optimisations
Optimizations in what manner? I bet you haven't even the foggiest clue what sort of optimizations are needed in a manufacturing environment. Hell, I'd be surprised if you can name a single quality initiative without using google.
>you mean
No I don't fucking mean that. I mean that anyone who makes something performs some level of optimization for their product in their market space.
>you're insanely...imply
I didn't imply shit. Are you talking to yourself? That must be what's going on here because this entire time you do nothing but keep moving goalposts over and over and over and over again. You get shutdown in one avenue and immediately turn down another.

Everything you write after this is even further twisting and again addressing something that's not even close to what was being talked about. AMD failed at a product and Intel succeeded at a different product -- and? So fucking what? That's in *no* way a proof that architecture and layout are the same. More to the damn point, it would have violated more patents than you could print on a case of printer paper had they attempted to copy another company's architecture (or layout for that matter).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 19:42:23 No.2668007 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667974
>TSMC, Samsung, and Global Foundries.
There we have it. This pure ignorance thinks TSMC, Samsung and GF can produce an 18 core Xeon E7 out of the blue.

These three fabs do not have anywhere near the capability to produce such a CPU. I don't know how to spell this to you. Is "physically impossible" an easy enough concept for you to understand?
They are physically incapable of matching the design, and they are incapable of matching the speed of that design.

>Optimizations in what manner?
Look at the picture I provided you above. There are certain processes that are designed for cache, and certain processes for analog. When you use a wrong process for a particular design, you either cripple the production of the chip and/or you cripple the speed at which the chip can operate under. Was this easy enough to understand?

>No I don't fucking mean that. I mean that anyone who makes something performs some level of optimization for their product in their market space.
That's terribly naive way of thinking. I'll try to spell it out for you:
When Nikon rents a section of a fab, they cannot optimise the fab to their design, they can only design under the restriction of the fab.
When Sony owns a fab, they can finetune their fab exactly to their design goals, AND they can optimise their chip designs to produce optimally from their fab.
Do you understand now?

>AMD failed at a product and Intel succeeded at a different product -- and? So fucking what?
I pointed out a clear CPU feature which was enabled directly because of a special process optimisation. Intel fine-tuned their Fab, which enabled a particular feature in their chip design.
This should have been an easy example to understand.

>would have violated more patents
Actually, every fab can design chips that power gates these days. But back in the days, only Intel was capable of this. And they were first to the market with this feature because their process engineers took feedback from their design engineers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 20:07:09 No.2668029 Report

Quoted By: >>2668033 >>2668052

>>2667877
do any of the zeiss lenses autofocus? I couldn't imagine sony getting into the pro market if they can't compete with say the L series lenses

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 20:09:50 No.2668033 Report

Quoted By: >>2668048

>>2668029
Of the native FE lenses:
Zeiss 25mm
Zeiss 35mm 2.8
Zeiss 35mm 1.4
Zeiss 55mm
Zeiss 85mm

All have autofocus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 20:36:23 No.2668048 Report

Quoted By:

>>2668033
The Batis 85mm even got IS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 20:39:31 No.2668052 Report

Quoted By: >>2668083 >>2668118

>>2668029
>if they can't compete with say the L series lenses
Zeiss and Sigma both beat the living shit out of Canon's lenses. It's only a matter of time before Sigma goes into the FE market.

Sony's 90mm is also top of the pop, for what it's worth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 20:55:01 No.2668061 Report

Quoted By:

is the A7II worth the ~$500 premium over the original A7 for IBIS?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 21:29:24 No.2668083 Report

Quoted By: >>2668091

>>2668052
WTF?!?!?!?! are you guys serious?!?!?!?!?!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 21:41:38 No.2668091 Report

Quoted By:

>>2668083
sigma owns, too bad they haven't shed their budget/shit build reputation yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 22:20:37 No.2668111 Report

Quoted By: >>2668121

>>2667848
Didn't Samsung release a BSI in the NX1 in third quarter 2014? Or was that using a Sony sensor?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 22:30:44 No.2668118 Report

Quoted By: >>2668123

>>2668052
Ehr
>Sigma beats Canon on some lenses which luckily will probably get updated by Canon, but Canon will make you pay a lot for them
>Zeiss is irrelevant unless it has autofocus, but there are some nice Zeiss lenses.

Canon is still untouched in 80% of its lineup (teles, specialty lenses, superwides, fullframe standard lenses), but Sigma did deal some heavy strikes to Canon with its fast Art primes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 22:32:43 No.2668121 Report

Quoted By:

>>2668111
That is correct. But that is not evidence that they are capable of making a Full Frame one.

Full Frame sensors are hard to make than APS-C.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 13 Sep 2015 22:34:30 No.2668123 Report

Quoted By: >>2668152 >>2668326

>>2668118
All of Zeiss' E-mount lenses have autofocus, except for 2.

So I don't know where you have this narrowmind from.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 00:43:58 No.2668152 Report

Quoted By: >>2668326

>>2668123
That's a fairly recent occurrence though. How does Zeiss equivalent lenses compare to recent Canon lenses like the 11-24 or 35mm 1.4. Granted those are the only ones I can name off the top of my head, but Zeiss are competing against older lenses that should be somewhat updated by Canon's 5 year expo (hopefully, if not, Canon's in twouble)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 06:49:45 No.2668259 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666789
>And they should have been included in the original a7s.

With that kind of attitude you sound like ungrateful posters on /v when a game gets optional expansion dlc months/a year later and they cry that it should've been included in the original game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 10:44:16 No.2668326 Report

Quoted By: >>2668350

>>2668123
Well those aren't very impressive, anon. When I say Zeiss I mean shit like the Otus and 15mm 2.8

>>2668152
Canon's 35 1.4 is shit and Sigma's 35 1.4 is better than Zeiss's. But luckily Canon is about to release a new 35, it's probably going to blow both out of the water but any reasonable human being will buy the Sigma one as it's going to be dirt cheap.

Canon is showings its muscles in lens design lately, kinda reminding everyone who's boss as far as professional lenses go. The uber expensive 11-24 was just that, a big "fuck you" to everyone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 12:00:00 No.2668350 Report

Quoted By: >>2668379 >>2668404

>>2668326
>>Well those aren't very impressive, anon
3rd highest DXO lens
4th highest
7th hghest
8th highest
14th and 19th highest

This isn't impressive to you? One camera maker has 4 lenses in in DXO's top 8 lenses. And you're not impressed.

Why do you apply this kind of difference in standards? What must this particular manufacturer do to impress you?
Must they have 6 out of top 8 to impress you? Must they have 8 out of top8 to impress you?

>Zeiss is irrelevant unless it has autofocus
>When I say Zeiss I mean shit like the Otus and 15mm 2.8
Those are manual lenses. Explain why manual lens on DSLR systems as impressive while manual lens on mirrorless isn't impressive. Why this difference in standards?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 13:44:44 No.2668379 Report

Quoted By:

>>2668350
>Why this difference in standards?
Fanboyism anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 14:07:54 No.2668404 Report

Quoted By: >>2668414

>>2668350
I wouldn't use DXO for lens ratings, ever, anon. Hell in general DXO is fucking cancer for everything unless you're in a lab and just looking at numbers.

>Why this difference in standards?
Because the Otuses are great lenses but without AF they just aren't a viable alternative to Nikon/Canon/Sigma gear in 99.9% of occasions. Mirrorless or not, it has to have autofocus to be a viable alternative to Canon.

The lenses in your list aren't that different from Canon glass to justify switching systems.

Like:
>that 90mm macro is cool but it's not a game changer compared to Canon's already sharp 100 2.8 IS Macro

>a 55 1.8 lens that's sharp? Eh, cool?

etc etc.
It's not exactly stuff you CARE about when choosing a system. If you want a sharp 50 you get the Sigma Art, it's 1.4 instead of 1.8 which actually makes a difference.

"impressive" is when it allows you to work in ways the other systems can't do as well, which is something Canon does well. (all the great T/S lenses, the new 11-24, the MP-E 65mm super macro lens, the artsy fartsy f/1.2 lineup, etc.
I'm not saying Canon iz best hurr durr, just saying that you don't go to Sony for lenses, compared to the Canon lineup which is just better. You go to Sony for the sensors, and maybe adapt Canon glass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 14:15:53 No.2668414 Report

Quoted By: >>2668425

>>2668404
>If you want a sharp 50 you get the Sigma Art, it's 1.4 instead of 1.8 which actually makes a difference.
About the only lens that's sharp at 1.4 is the Otus. You don't buy 1.4 lenses for sharpness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 14:20:49 No.2668420 Report

Quoted By:

I just hope they improved on the awful rolling shutter problem the first model had. Not that I expect a global shutter but at least have it passible enough to be fixable in post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 14:31:50 No.2668425 Report

Quoted By: >>2668431

>>2668414
You don't buy 1.8 lenses for sharpness either, but 1.8 isn't really worth that kind of money, is it?

As I was saying, it's just an uninteresting lens that will hardly find its way in anyone's kit, anyone with that kind of money to spend on a 50 will get Sigma's Art one, which is very close to the Otus, pretty much the same lens in most regards, but with AF and at a reasonable price. Really, look at real photos from both, and you'll see that the Sigma looks the same except for some slight softness on the borders at f/1.4, which is still freaking sharp considered the aperture, from f/2. onwards they look the same. Stopped down further even Canon's 1.8 plastic fifty looks the same, because all 50mm lenses are freaking sharp.

Of course on DXO it doesn't seem like that but any real world test shows how close they are (that's why I say that DXO is fucking cancer if you take it seriously.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 14:39:20 No.2668431 Report

Quoted By: >>2668438

>>2668425
>You don't buy 1.8 lenses for sharpness either,
You do in this case. There is nothing shaper than that 1.8 and those 1.4 Otus lenses. Those are the go to lenses for sharpness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 14:50:08 No.2668438 Report

Quoted By: >>2668441

>>2668431
If you look at real word examples the Sigma will be just as sharp, read the rest of my post, go check out samples. Really, it's just a laboratory test thing with no application to the real world, as most of DXO shit is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 14:53:46 No.2668441 Report

Quoted By: >>2668446

>>2668438
>the Sigma will be just as sharp,
Sorry but it isn't.

That lens has other advantages, but sharpness isn't one of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 14:59:07 No.2668446 Report

Quoted By: >>2668448

>>2668441
Sigh. Whatever. Convince yourself of anything you'd like.

http://text.flowtographyberlin.de/zeiss-otus-vs-sigma-art-vs-nikkor-58/2/

Literally the only downside of the sigma is the slight amount of focus shifting when stopping down, but in the real world they're the same.

But of course all laboratory masturbators will think otherwise, whatever, real world results is what PHOTOGRAPHERS care about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 15:01:41 No.2668448 Report

Quoted By: >>2668449

>>2668446
You can say it's your favourite lens, it's better balanced for you and most people because it has the features you need. But it wrong to say it's just as sharp.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 14 Sep 2015 15:02:33 No.2668449 Report

Quoted By:

>>2668448
>But it wrong to say it's just as sharp.
But it is in any situation except a black on white chart in a studio. And even then the difference is marginal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Sep 2015 22:40:28 No.2669826 Report

Quoted By:

Pretty good for CDAF, I wonder how it will behave with third party and adapted lenses, but the reviewer says that is on par with m43.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDKVhARCWp4

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 16 Sep 2015 22:44:34 No.2669829 Report

Quoted By:

Pretty good for CDAF, I wonder how it will behave with third party and adapted lenses, but the reviewer says that is on par with m43.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUQ4eCFB70Q

lacks megabretzels tbh

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO o0oo71s4.jpg, 56KiB, 257x257

lacks megabretzels tbh Wed 16 Sep 2015 23:21:18 No.2669844 Report

Quoted By: >>2669888

>>2666686
>Full-frame 35mm 12.2 Megapixel Sensor

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 01:10:04 No.2669882 Report

Quoted By: >>2670016

>>2667873
>>2667877

All of the Sony Zeiss lenses on e-mount are Sony designs. Anyone who tells you otherwise, including Zeiss marketers, are bullshitting you. The 55mm f1.8, 35mm f2.8, 35mm f1.4 and the two zooms are in-house Sony designs. All of those, excluding perhaps the 24-70mm are either good or outstanding lenses. Sony knows how to design lenses just fine.

Only the Loxia and Batis lenses are actual Zeiss products (with the caveats that entails, built by Cosina etc)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 01:30:28 No.2669888 Report

Quoted By: >>2669890

>>2669844
I know right. I wanted it to be 8mpx. Imagine that noiseless iso 800.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 01:31:18 No.2669890 Report

Quoted By: >>2669895 >>2669912

>>2669888
Imagine actually taking photos, and having something to look at in them besides sharpness, and noise, and dynamic range.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 01:37:53 No.2669895 Report

Quoted By:

>>2669890
Yea, fortunately cameras and lenses are actually slowly getting there.

Right now, we can still see tons of defects with common gear, though.

OTOH, if your point was that we should just ignore those - that is just not how the world and people work.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO scan01s.jpg, 212KiB, 1000x799

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 01:56:13 No.2669912 Report

Quoted By: >>2669914

>>2669890
I don't need to imagine taking photos because I actually take photos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 01:57:36 No.2669914 Report

Quoted By: >>2669928 >>2669946

>>2669912
Where did you find that neat purple building? What a superb creative photo you have created.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO scan02s.jpg, 295KiB, 1000x803

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 02:18:34 No.2669928 Report

Quoted By:

>>2669914
I'm glad that my simple photo caught your attention. I hope it allowed you to learn something new about yourself. I sure learned something about you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 02:45:13 No.2669946 Report

Quoted By:

>>2669914
You colour blind mate? That's obviously a brown and blue building.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 05:44:34 No.2670011 Report

Quoted By:

>>2667246
muh nigga

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 06:14:45 No.2670016 Report

Quoted By: >>2670023

>>2669882
This.
If it's "____ + Zeiss", it's not really Zeiss.
Just stuff made to a standard that won't significantly embarrass Zeiss that they'd want to disallow their licensed name.

If it's Zeiss only then it's actually made by Zeiss (in Japan, dunno what consumer optics are still made in Germany - maybe cine stuff).

It might have been on here, but I remember someone asking Zeiss engineers about the properties of their sony/zeiss lens and they basically laughed at him and said that they have nothing to do with those except to apply a rubber stamp if it met a certain standard.

Good enough lenses, but don't be fooled by marketing labels.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 06:47:31 No.2670023 Report

Quoted By:

>>2670016
>If it's Zeiss only then it's actually made by Zeiss (in Japan
Let me clarify: It's actually "Zeiss" as made by an official consumer lens maker of theirs, Cosina.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 17 Sep 2015 13:36:48 No.2670135 Report

Quoted By:

>>2666691
4k means the processor is better, the old one did 4k over hdmi

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 051.jpg, 114KiB, 800x600

Anonymous Sat 19 Sep 2015 04:31:10 No.2670953 Report

Quoted By: >>2670962 >>2670970 >>2670978 >>2671159

>buy mirrorless
>its more compact and portable they said
>it will fit in your jacket pockey they said
>tfw spend $6000 on a 1 lens combo and get this

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Sep 2015 05:08:03 No.2670962 Report

Quoted By:

>>2670953
>bumping a dying thread
>baiting
Can't tell if you're anti or pro Sony.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Olympus-OM-D-next-to-5d-mk2.jpg, 22KiB, 422x480

Anonymous Sat 19 Sep 2015 05:42:12 No.2670970 Report

Quoted By:

>>2670953
>Going fool frame
Never go fool frame.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 35 1.4.jpg, 170KiB, 1200x978

Anonymous Sat 19 Sep 2015 07:10:24 No.2670978 Report

Quoted By:

>>2670953
Buy manual lenses

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Sep 2015 19:47:32 No.2671138 Report

Quoted By:

I still prefer my X-T1 ;^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 19 Sep 2015 21:09:53 No.2671159 Report

Quoted By:

>>2670953
Or, if you want compact get the leica m mount voigtlander 40 1.4, it's tiny.

Or it you needed af, 28 f2.

That zeiss is a studio lens for studio work numpty.

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches

Sony a7sII