/p/ - Photography » Thread #3876445

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Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:00:32 No.3876445 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>3876446 >>3876510 >>3876534 >>3876579 >>3876610 >>3876617 >>3876643 >>3876645 >>3876892 >>3876906 >>3876910 >>3877847 >>3877874 >>3877894

lets get techincal:

s there ANY reason to use black and white film when color film exists? cant you just use color film and then convert it to black and white digitally?
say you have an 800 b&w film and and 800 color film. would there be any difference if you put them both side by side after converting the color one to b&w? with the color film you get to choose. does b&w film have any inherent advantages?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:02:18 No.3876446 Report

Quoted By: >>3876449

>>3876445
>would there be any difference

yes, obviously. Try it out, see which one u like more

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO quote-black-and-white-are-the-co (...).jpg, 61KiB, 850x400

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:02:18 No.3876447 Report

Quoted By: >>3876449

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:05:52 No.3876449 Report

Quoted By: >>3876451 >>3876452

>>3876446
i never could see any advantage other than the fact that i cant find any 3200 color films.

>>3876447
that is the gayest quote i ever read. i believe in restriction as a way to cultivate creativity, or atleast it works for me. but theres a limit too. black and white gets so boring after a while. is this dude from new york or something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:14:22 No.3876451 Report

Quoted By: >>3876454

>>3876449
its supposed to be gay you "cultivate your creativity" faggot

>never could see any advantage
damn op you answered your own question, bravo

/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:17:45 No.3876452 Report

Quoted By: >>3876454

>>3876449
>is this dude from new york or something?
THE ABSOLUTE STATE
PLEASE BE BAIT PLEASE BE FUCKING

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:19:41 No.3876454 Report

Quoted By: >>3876458 >>3876462 >>3876475

>>3876451
"its supposed to be gay you "cultivate your creativity faggot"
what kinda 4th grader answer is that? that's an even worse answer than "i was merely pretending to be retarded!"
it has since ancient times been a popular idea among creatives that restriction is the mother of all creativity.
>damn op you answered your own question, bravo
no i said I never could see any advantage, personally. that is also why i started the thread with, lets get "technical", because i dont have any real technical knowledge of film.

>>3876452
why? i went to new york once and everyone was a total faggot pretending to be an artistic intellectual and they would always say shit like this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:22:17 No.3876458 Report

Quoted By: >>3876459

>>3876454
>why?
Please stop embarrassing yourself. This joke isn't funny as you think.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:23:32 No.3876459 Report

Quoted By: >>3876463 >>3876650

>>3876458
its not a joke, im from europe and its my perception of that city. i dont know what kinda inside jokes you americans have

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:24:45 No.3876462 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876454
>"i was merely pretending to be retarded!"
i didnt post that shit op. Its just a fucking p meme. Please kindly plug a sock into your mouth

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:24:46 No.3876463 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876459
(You)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:32:01 No.3876475 Report

Quoted By: >>3876758

>>3876454
>i went to new york once and everyone was a total faggot pretending to be an artistic intellectual and they would always say shit like this.
hahahahha jew york faggot seethe incoming
well done anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:53:53 No.3876510 Report

Quoted By: >>3876514

>>3876445
So glad this book is getting a reprint. Already have my order in for a signed copy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 19:56:40 No.3876514 Report

Quoted By: >>3876639

>>3876510
aaaah sounds nice. how much did you pay? he is on another level, truly a talented photographer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 20:10:07 No.3876534 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876445
I suppose some people out there would always claim to be able to notice the difference between real B/W and color film converted digitally.
I don't think I could tell the difference. And besides, getting B/W film developed is quite a bit more expensive, and results may be shit if you decide to just have your local drug store develop it. Color film is more standardized and getting good negatives from it is ultimately cheaper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 21:09:31 No.3876579 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876445
Bro if I could get tmax out of portra believe me i would. having the option would be great. if you can figure that out lemme know lol.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 22:03:15 No.3876610 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876445
It's much easier to develop.
You are guaranteed to get the right colors. No, silvershit colors are not good.

giannis

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO APX640_ (4)_.jpg, 366KiB, 1200x795

giannis Mon 03 May 2021 22:35:54 No.3876617 Report

Quoted By: >>3876689

>>3876445
Sure.
Maybe not compelling reasons to you, but there are some.

First off, speed. You can get any cheap ISO400 film in a pushing developer and get very close to ISO800, meanwhile it'd cost you $15 to get some Portra 800. Similarly for the highest ISO films, or the lowest ISO ones.

Secondly, printing (in the darkroom).
Colour film, both the dyes and the orange mask, make a mess of variable contrast paper, it's very hard to get a decent print.
Finally, if you care about that thing, it's more archival.

>would there be any difference if you put them both side by side after converting the color one to b&w?
This is not the main reason to choose one over the other. Given similar "technology", the grain of B&W will be sharper and potentially higher resolving. But they're not similar technology, modern colour films are quite a bit more advanced than the vast majority of B&W films.
There are differences, but not always in favour of the B&W film. You might get better DR with some colour films for instance. Or you get the ability to apply filtration after taking the photo than before.

>does b&w film have any inherent advantages?
The advantages are it comes in a vast range of ISOs (12-3200) for all kind of shooting conditions or cameras with limited shutter speeds and apertures. Also is very flexible - and easier - with processing (push, pull, compensating development, etc etc.) and works much, much better in the darkroom, which is its main purpose anyway: the print.
Slight differences in grain or sharpness and whatnot are not the main reason to choose B&W, colour film os good enough in those aspects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 23:19:37 No.3876639 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876514
It's $85 signed and shipped. I also own a signed copy of Vancouver Underground. Great book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 23:27:57 No.3876643 Report

Quoted By: >>3876692

>>3876445
Film? Yes. It's much easier to develop/print B&W yourself and you have a great deal of control over the result during both dev and printing.

Digital? No. You can use the color information to better shape your final result.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Ariana100 072.jpg, 702KiB, 1200x800

Anonymous Mon 03 May 2021 23:37:57 No.3876645 Report

Quoted By: >>3876745 >>3876909

>>3876445
>does b&w film have any inherent advantages?

cheaper to buy
cheaper to dev
easier/quicker to dev
chemicals last forever unlike colour chemicals
no need to adjust colours in post
easier to darkroom print
can shoot with colour filters for adjusting scene contrast

most importantly, it's just fun to shoot bw sometimes

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 00:02:23 No.3876650 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876459
>i dont know what kinda inside jokes you americans have
Americans don't have inside jokes, they are not sophisticated enough. Its all a money game in America, particularly New York. If you have it you can prance around and spout whatever drivel you like and people will say wow. But if you can't afford to buy attention you remain invisible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 01:59:41 No.3876689 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876617
aboslutely amazing answer, i learnt so much! thank you for sharing your knowledge.

as for that picture, i could easily replicate that digitally, however i can not no matter how hard i try replicate film colors. guess ill stay with color film.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 02:03:07 No.3876692 Report

Quoted By: >>3876767 >>3877021

>>3876643
why is it easier to print? i know nothing about printing.

>can shoot with color filters for adjusting scene contrast

right that brings me to my second question:
is there any inherent advantage or noticeable difference between physical color filters and adding them digitally? id think that since you are physically changing the amount of red light coming in iwth a red filter that can not be replicated in post-production. i know that with a digital camera there are some differences because a digital sensor has more green and blue than red sensors or something like that

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 03:13:24 No.3876745 Report

Quoted By: >>3876752

>>3876645
>fun
there's that meaningless use of the word again

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 03:26:25 No.3876752 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876745
I know it might be hard for an autist to understand such a concept, but people do generally do stuff for fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 03:38:25 No.3876758 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876475
Still waiting on that seethe

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 03:47:50 No.3876767 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876692
>why is it easier to print? i know nothing about printing.
You have more options with development because if you vary color development you fuck up the colors. (Times/temps are carefully chosen for color to insure all three layers develop to the right point.)

It's easier to print because you're not trying to color balance your print which is a bit of a bitch.

>is there any inherent advantage or noticeable difference between physical color filters and adding them digitally? id think that since you are physically changing the amount of red light coming in iwth a red filter that can not be replicated in post-production.
The filters are not adding light, they're subtracting it, which can be done digitally to a very high degree of precision.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 06:26:43 No.3876892 Report

Quoted By: >>3876893 >>3876935

>>3876445
image quality on b/w negative is wayyyyy better than color dipshit

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 06:28:05 No.3876893 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876892
image quality is a meme though and color is a quality of its own

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 07:27:36 No.3876906 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876445
>OP: am I a faggot?
Yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 07:37:24 No.3876909 Report

Quoted By: >>3876918

>>3876645
This. I never shot film but from my readings BW film seemed to be less affected by temperature and time errors. I could be wrong, but aren't some BW films also able to be used with a red safelight?

All in all I thought if you were going to be developing your own film you might as well shoot BW. Again I'm digital so I really don't know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 07:40:27 No.3876910 Report

Quoted By: >>3876933

>>3876445
BW is more easier, more forgiving, and cheaper to develop at home. I only shoot photo for myself and see no reason to make it harder on myself when BW is kino anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 08:03:35 No.3876918 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876909
>aren't some BW films also able to be used with a red safelight?
Orthochromatic films should be fine with a dim red safelight as they only respond to blue light.
Panchromatic films can not be used with a safelight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 09:19:31 No.3876933 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876910
This. Bw film is a lot easier to work with during the development process. Pushing and pulling films such as trix and hp5 can give great results. You can also make the film grainier if you like with agitation or messing with the temperature. Lots of other things too but I’ve only developed bw film for about two years so I’m still an amateur.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 May 2021 09:27:16 No.3876935 Report

Quoted By: >>3877854

>>3876892
No, colour tends to have less grain because of motion picture dye tech

giannis

giannis Tue 04 May 2021 13:07:30 No.3877021 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876692
>why is it easier to print? i know nothing about printing.
Most B&W paper is variable contrast.
This means, you can use different filters on the enlarger head, to make prints of different contrasts from the *same* negative.

The way this works, the paper has various layers, of emulsion, sensitised to different colours. At the very least it will have a blue-only sensitive layer and a blue+green sensitive layer. So when exposing, if you use white light (mix of all colours), the blue-only sensitive layer gets exposed less than the blue+green layer.
If when printing, you use a yellow filter on the enlarger, you're underexposing the blue sensitive layer of the paper even further, relative to the blue+green layer, so this layer doesn't contribute that much to the density buildup in the paper, so the print has less contrast.
The opposite happens with a magenta filter, you're underexposing the green+blue layer, and now it's exposed roughly as much as the blue-only layer (which isn't affected), and as a result you have the contrast curves of both layers one on top of the other, or you can say both layers build equally as much density, resulting in a high contrast print.

Now imagine a C-41 negative, with its orange mask first and foremost (messing contrast but also adding needless density), as well as locally areas of magenta (i.e. subjects that are green in real life will render a very high contrast on the paper), and yellow (i.e. subjects that are blue in real life will render a very low contrast for the paper).
It's a mess and you rarely get a decent print out of it, and when you do it's after lots of work and time that would be better spent elsewhere.

For digital printing none of that applies obviously.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1620249920490.png, 408KiB, 993x1405

Anonymous Thu 06 May 2021 00:03:46 No.3877847 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876445

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 May 2021 00:15:11 No.3877854 Report

Quoted By:

>>3876935
That tech winds up in the B&W films any way. Except the "classic" emulsions which are kept the way they are because people want that look.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 May 2021 01:07:53 No.3877874 Report

Quoted By: >>3877890

>>3876445
advantage of b&w: you can shoot your gf in the bedroom and develop the negs yourself, save the awkwardness in sending color negs to lab

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 May 2021 01:50:55 No.3877890 Report

Quoted By:

>>3877874
kek i used to do this all the time and the guy would always be so smug, i would often bring her in with me. i knew he didnt develop them but then one day he told me that hes the one who scans them. he wss clearly enjoying my embarrassment. then i thought you know what this guy´s always a bro and gives me good deals, he deserves to see some ass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 May 2021 01:52:25 No.3877894 Report

Quoted By: >>3877909

>>3876445
if you have to ask you probably shouldn't be using film at all, just buy the new Samsung Ultra like a good goy

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 May 2021 02:07:50 No.3877909 Report

Quoted By:

>>3877894
i actually just got a new samsung galaxy phone i dont know what its called im not good with phones but it takes surprisingly good photos and its really fun to use and it has the option to set shuter speed and shit and it makes me feel like a kid when i use it its really fun.

i use film because i like putting in the film and i like advancing the lever and i like the way the pictures come out and i like the bokeh on my old lenses and i like the look of motion blur on film.

once, i used to be like you. a narcissistic autist overly perfectionist looser stuck in dunning Kruger hell. then i stopped being so black and white and realized that balance is the most importan thing in life. now ive learnt to FEEL and enjoy things. reallt glad i took a step back and stopped being so toxic and unlikable. i hope you can grow out of it too anon.

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