/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #11939234

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 05:56:55 No.11939234 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11939258 >>11939259

Question

If N can talk to the fucking Pokemon, wouldn't he know before he started his shitty crusade to free all the Pokemon that they, like, DON'T WANT THAT? He even fucking says that they looked sad when he was releasing them, why did he not just ask them if they wanted to be free or not. I understand the guy led him astray but it would be pretty fucking simple to just talk to the Pokemon and figure out the truth for himself, no? Or did I entirely misunderstand White1's plot?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 05:59:13 No.11939252 Report

Quoted By:

It's because he's so socially fucked he can't understand humans or Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 05:59:31 No.11939256 Report

Quoted By: >>11939267

He just kind of denies that's what they truely feel like. Also, before meeting you, he was only exposed to Pokemon who have been hurt by their trainers. He probably just felt you were the only one like that, since he didn't actually talk to other people much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:00:04 No.11939258 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939234
>Autistic

And I don't even mean that in an insulting way, he would have to be legitimately autistic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:00:28 No.11939259 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939234
Because he's full of himself and can't actually speak to pokemon. He's also a faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:01:17 No.11939267 Report

Quoted By: >>11939285 >>11939301 >>11939619 >>11946016

>>11939256
Again, this big crusade is a huge undertaking. He didn't want to do his research and see what other Pokemon are like before just deciding to liberate them all? You'd think, a guy smart enough to learn how to talk to Pokemon, would know better

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:03:36 No.11939285 Report

Quoted By: >>11939476

>>11939267
Did you ever go in his room in black/white? the kid is a fucking adolescent with a childs ideology whose been brainwashed since birth. hes fucked up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:05:46 No.11939301 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939267
He's smart but he's also kind of a stalker and a tool. He really was just being told what to do by Ghetsis. He was too manipulated to even consider that he was wrong until he got proved wrong in the end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:33:22 No.11939476 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939285
I really felt like they were making some weird ass connection between N and Tajiri when I went into N's room.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:37:53 No.11939501 Report

Quoted By: >>11939512 >>11939514 >>11939563 >>11942256

>using a train like a basketball
nigga's obviously full retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:39:14 No.11939512 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939501
Maybe he was just mad at the train.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:39:37 No.11939514 Report

Quoted By: >>11939629 >>11942281

>>11939501
>he's never played Engine Dunk

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:47:22 No.11939563 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939501
holy shit balls! I wasn't the only one who thought that?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:55:16 No.11939619 Report

Quoted By: >>11942308

>>11939267
He did his research. Or at least, the research that Ghetsis wanted him to do. He talked to Pokémon after Pokémon who were abused and mistreated, who would've been better off if their trainers had released them. And when he went out into the world, sure, there were Pokémon who weren't abused by their trainers, but they'd probably be better off anyway. Friendship between trainers and Pokémon? Keeping your friends inside their Poké Balls is a great way to foster Stockholm Syndrome, being away from their trainers will be for the best. Cases where N can't deny that the Pokémon is better off with their trainer? He ignores it, because it goes against the ideology that he's had for pretty much his entire existence, and you can do that sort of thing when you've been raised from birth to do it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 06:57:20 No.11939629 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939514
>Engine Dunk
mah nigga

Ehi

Ehi Tue 09 Apr 2013 10:06:18 No.11940521 Report

Quoted By: >>11940533

One of reasion i think N is a shitty character.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 10:11:02 No.11940533 Report

Quoted By:

>>11940521
I actually like him more because he has visible flaws.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 10:11:14 No.11940534 Report

Quoted By: >>11941071

Because B2W2's writing was completely god awful. Shouldn't be considered canon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 10:13:00 No.11940537 Report

Quoted By: >>11941049

N is like a feminist.

If a women says she is fine being a housewife, N will be there to tell her that she only thinks that way because of the PATRIARCHY.

If a Pokemon told him they want to fight for their trainer, he'd consider them mentally ill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 10:16:02 No.11940544 Report

Quoted By:

Did you not go into his room at the end?
He's a child, he's the Michael Jackson of the Pokemon world.

What he's doing he thinks is right
Even if its oh so very wrong.
Very, very wrong,
The fact that he can understand them means nothing, a lot is lost in interpretation, just like any language.

Also, he's the fucking Michael Jackson of the fucking pokemon world and Ghetsis is his doctor.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 12:28:07 No.11941023 Report

Quoted By:

>engine dunk

I haven't laughed this hard for a while.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 12:33:31 No.11941049 Report

Quoted By:

>>11940537
If you actually bothered doing your research by reading N's tumblr then you would know that he identifies as trans-Pokemon. Don't associate him with human privilege.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 12:38:55 No.11941071 Report

Quoted By: >>11946414

>>11940534
What was so awful about it? The crux of it was "oh I used to think one way but now I see that I was mistaken" etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 12:41:56 No.11941082 Report

Quoted By:

One of the main points of BW1's plot was that Ghetsis manipulated N into being socially retarded so he wouldn't be able to tell or accept that the vast majority of Pokemon weren't in any danger

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 12:46:20 No.11941096 Report

Quoted By: >>11941182 >>11942252 >>11942402

But there are Pokemon owned by abusive trainers who are unhappy.

Every single region has gigantic criminal organisations that do this, the problem is utterly universal. Not to mention that there are likely many abusive people out there who treat their Pokemon badly naturally, like abusive pet owners, who have nothing to do with organised crime. And also, remember this; in the logic of the game the player character is often suggested to be some kind of especially caring or intuitively "in-tune" trainer who gets the best out of their Pokemon. This is used to explain how you are such an effective trainer, as in Oak's speech when you beat the league in Gen 1. This could suggest that the PC is actually the EXCEPTION in their level of friendship with their Pokemon, and most people are not as caring as you.

All that would be bad enough, but we're not even really talking about pets here. Pokemon can apparantly communicate with some form of language, suggesting they have person-level intelligence, with some of them explicitly being said to be more intelligent than humans. N's philosophy is correct. The fact that there are some good Pokemon trainers does not address the central issue of whether or not OWNING another person is morally acceptable. There were nice, kind slave owners too, but they do not counterbalance the abusive ones, slavery was wrong in either case because it was the treatment of another person as property. I am glad that BW2 didn't cop-out and have N do a 180, from the dialogue he still believes that one day we will be able to be partners with Pokemon "without Pokeballs."

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 13:00:41 No.11941152 Report

Quoted By: >>11941179 >>11942214 >>11942326

Don't pokeballs imprint the trainers DNA onto the pokemon once they're caught with a pokeball?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 13:05:38 No.11941179 Report

Quoted By:

>>11941152
No, it just registers the Trainer ID

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 13:06:11 No.11941182 Report

Quoted By:

>>11941096
p convincing yo

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 16:22:04 No.11942214 Report

Quoted By:

>>11941152
I'm not even sure where you got this information.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 16:28:44 No.11942252 Report

Quoted By:

>>11941096
That's a pretty nice speech. I feel your arguments, especially with the whole slavery issue. I specifically remember Alakazam has an incredibly high IQ. Also, a lot of the legendary pokemons are pretty much deities. How can we capture that and keep it in a ball?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 16:29:15 No.11942256 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939501
>2013
>Not throwing toy trains into basketball hoops
>Not feeling that immense and indescribable joy
I SHIGGITY kill yourself before it's too late

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 16:33:00 No.11942281 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939514
>summer, 2011
>playing Engine Dunk with the bros
>Tyrone layups caboose first
>Violates 3rd rule of Engine Dunk
>All stare mouths agape
>LaShawn starts silently weeping
>Tyrone didn't even care
>mfw

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 16:37:51 No.11942308 Report

Quoted By: >>11943072

>>11939619
Fixed

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 16:38:15 No.11942311 Report

Quoted By:

he is a zoroark

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 16:40:14 No.11942326 Report

Quoted By:

>>11941152
Sounds like some kind of shitty DRM

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 16:53:40 No.11942402 Report

Quoted By: >>11945836 >>11946010 >>11946350 >>11946556

>>11941096
Your whole argument reeks of self righteousness and pretentiousness.

A lot of Pokemon do have intelligence higher than any human, but doesn't that just sound odd? How can a Pokemon who is soo much smarter than us be controlled? How can a Pokemon who can cause earthquakes bend to our will?

I feel like you're looking at Pokemon as if they're victims. You take pity on them. The truth is, to me Pokemon know what they're doing. I think that every order they commit, is consensual. The ideology behind Pokemon is different from that of regular humans. You think that we own them, but I feel that the truth of the matter is that we don't own them, we're partners with them. Even in crime organizations, they're partners with their Pokemon. The Pokemon understand that if they are weak, they are going to get left behind.

In a lot of the games, anime and manga, (not that the last two count) the fact that Pokemon are owned has never been an issue. The issue has been with them being mistreated. I believe that Pokemon have choices, and their choice is to their masters. I feel like they live like a samurai would.

>My life is simple, my food is plain, and my quarters are uncluttered. In all things, I have sought clarity. I face the troubles and problems of life and death willingly. Virtue, integrity and courage are my priorities. I can be approached, but never pushed; befriended but never coerced; killed but never shamed.
>Yi Sunshin

Pokemon have a loyalty to their masters. Masters are supposed to be caring and loving. This is how slavery originally was intended to be. Like a lot of things though, it got muddle and ruined and twisted into what we have today.

Finally, I think that people like N are on a crusade to help Pokemon who don't need help. Pokemon can take care of themselves. Pokemon can break the bonds humans have made with them. Pokemon just don't want to. Pokemon don't need help. Pokemon don't need a crusader. Pokemon don't need N.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 18:26:52 No.11943072 Report

Quoted By:

>>11942308
yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 22:46:46 No.11945836 Report

Quoted By: >>11945962

>>11942402
tl;dr

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 22:50:53 No.11945890 Report

Quoted By:

My theory is that he can't REALLY talk to Pokemon, he just can understand their facial expressions and body language and thinks that's something special. Many people with Autism-Spectrum disorders (which I know you all are about 98 percent certain N has) think they have godlike powers when in reality they're just doing things that anyone can do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 22:55:11 No.11945962 Report

Quoted By: >>11945979

>>11945836

Except for they have an incredibly good point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 22:56:25 No.11945979 Report

Quoted By: >>11946002

>>11945962
>they
You misspelled "I"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 22:57:47 No.11946002 Report

Quoted By: >>11946010

>>11945979
You can check. I'm not them. I'll quote their post and show that it doesn't say (you) with a screenshot, if you like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 22:58:31 No.11946010 Report

Quoted By:

>>11942402
>>11946002

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 22:59:03 No.11946016 Report

Quoted By:

>>11939267
He had been brainwashed by Ghetsis all his life.

When he went outside he found the player and realised that okeymens and humens can till be friends and fight together, etc

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 22:59:36 No.11946028 Report

Quoted By: >>11946068 >>11946070 >>11946424

Bam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:02:08 No.11946068 Report

Quoted By:

>>11946028
where are the funny tabs

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:02:09 No.11946070 Report

Quoted By: >>11946083 >>11946124 >>11946142

>>11946028
Jesus Christ, is being right on the internet really that important to you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:03:17 No.11946083 Report

Quoted By:

>>11946070
You just are mad because you got told.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:05:23 No.11946124 Report

Quoted By:

>>11946070
Next time, don't blindly accuse people of being a samefag unless you have evidence. It's dumb. It serves no purpose. It makes me take time out to prove that "yes, I like this idea but I don't have a bias".

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:07:05 No.11946142 Report

Quoted By: >>11946160

>>11946070
>call samefag
>get disproved
>"man, you're such a loser."

Ahaha.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:07:32 No.11946148 Report

Quoted By:

Maybe because he's surrounded by asshole Team Plasma members. He also said that there are some good trainers, but the rest suck at one point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:08:22 No.11946160 Report

Quoted By:

>>11946142
Butthurt people like to dig themselves holes, eh?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:23:37 No.11946350 Report

Quoted By: >>11946443 >>11946519 >>11946541 >>11947242

>>11942402
>>11942402
>I feel like you're looking at Pokemon as if they're victims. You take pity on them.
Well I don't think they're real so... no?
>The truth is, to me Pokemon know what they're doing. I think that every order they commit, is consensual.
Not meaning to sound disrespectful but what you think makes no difference to anything. What matters is what is presented to us in the games. Before Gen V I would have agreed with you that GF pretty much intended to portray the Pokemon/human relationship as being totally consensual but Gen V questions that, so its at least possible that the relationship isn't consensual and there are examples of this being unambiguously the case (Such as various villanous teams capturing and harnessing legendary Pokemon)
>the truth of the matter is that we don't own them, we're partners with them.
And yet N is capable of being partners with Pokemon without using Pokeballs and campaigns against their use, and doesn't change his stance in the sequels. So the question is, what ARE Pokeballs if they aren't to some degree non-consensual capture devices? Why do we use them at all if they're totally unnecessary and Pokemon can choose to fight for you without them, as they clearly can? Isn't it all just a waste of tech and money?

Either way you're arguing about the actual canon of a kid's game and that doesn't really impact the central argument. GF can go any way they like with that and will do whatever suits them. It's a kid's game so realistically they'll never draw a strong slavery comparison nor show any extreme forms of abuse. My point is that, fundamentally, owning another person is wrong, which surely you can agr-
>Masters are supposed to be caring and loving. This is how slavery originally was intended to
Oh my god you're defending slavery

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:28:46 No.11946414 Report

Quoted By:

>>11941071
I think a lot of the problems with it had to do with the translation but

It was a ton of cliche, vague BS. It touched on one of the franchises real criticisms for years, that Pokemon fighting is analogous to animal abuse, enslavement and cockfighting. It talked a whole lot about the truth and ideals and all that stuff but it never really took a stance on the issue and dropped it like a sack of bricks when the enemy team turned out to be using the issue as a way to control people. The issue isn't any less present just because the people raising awareness of it are assholes, but once they're revealed to be they never come to a conclusion on it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:29:51 No.11946424 Report

Quoted By: >>11946461

>>11946028
>Metroid Prime 2 LP
That's a fun one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:31:39 No.11946443 Report

Quoted By:

>>11946350
N actually still uses Pokeballs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:32:35 No.11946461 Report

Quoted By:

>>11946424
I just finished the first one not too long ago. I haven't watched too much of their LPs, I've been stuck watching the Retsupurae.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:37:36 No.11946519 Report

Quoted By: >>11946713

>>11946350
>Masters are supposed to be caring and loving. This is how slavery originally was intended to be
Not him, but some cultures viewed slavery as a form a kinship. particularly in the middleast/mediataranian. Slaves there could rise to some pretty impressive positions. In some cases, entire armies of slave soldiers shaped the fate of Caliphates. (Mamulucks)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:39:21 No.11946541 Report

Quoted By:

>>11946350
Not that dude but Pokeballs are used mainly for convenience sake. It'd be pretty hard to take 6 wailords running around everywhere you go. Also I remember some NPC saying that Pokemon could leave their trainers any time they want. The relationships between people and Pokemon are actually pretty complex and even a little confusing. It also tends to vary greatly depending on the trainer and Pokemon, some are kept as pets, friends, partners, etc. Many Pokemon become attached to trainers fairly quickly as demonstrated by a few members of Team Plasma at the end of B/W who had Pokemon who didn't want to leave them. I say that the relationship is complicated, but also interesting and that you do have a point in how "right" all this truly is. I really liked B/W because it addressed at least some of this and raised some interesting questions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:41:19 No.11946556 Report

Quoted By:

>>11942402
I agreed with you until you mentioned slavery.

That aside, N didn't exactly -know- Pokemon were fine. All the Pokemon he knew were tortured or abused by their masters. Not to mention he was extremely sheltered all his life and was constantly spoonfed bullshit by Ghetsis. It's not exactly N's fault, and he starts to realize his error near the end of the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:47:26 No.11946629 Report

Quoted By: >>11946692

I love how everyone in here keeps going on about autism/brain damage/retardation/N was a faggot/all of this other shit in order to bitch about and attack him, forgetting that Ghetsis kept him away from people and with Pokemon that Team Plasma had overworked and abused themselves as part of his plan.

Yes, the fact that you conveniently left out that last part shows you're only suggesting the others so you can bash N for whatever personal reason you have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:52:50 No.11946692 Report

Quoted By:

>>11946629
Actually quite a few people addressed that. It's part of what I think makes him interesting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 09 Apr 2013 23:54:48 No.11946713 Report

Quoted By:

>>11946519
Mediterraneans treated slaves in a manner that gave rise to the slave system in the US: slaves are basically animals, that is. Africa and Middle East are the only places with nice slaves.

Slaves in the more modern sense were treated worse than dirt: it was some of the cruelest slavery of all time. The mediterranean system was the basis of this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Apr 2013 00:39:35 No.11947242 Report

Quoted By: >>11951179

>>11946350
>Well I don't think they're real so... no?
Then why this argument? Aren't we just having fun discussing morals in a game. If you really don't care, then don't reply. Since you made a detailed post that didn't just say, "N was right" I expected you to be a little more serious.

>so its at least possible that the relationship isn't consensual and there are examples of this being unambiguously the case
And I gave you my reasoning. Pokemon is a Japanese game. Japan as a culture had samurais. I based my argument on the fact that I believe the ideology behind Pokemon is that they obey their masters, even when their masters are wrong.

>And yet N is capable of being partners with Pokemon without using Pokeballs and campaigns against their use
He does use Pokeballs. Just because he has "friends" that are Pokemon, doesn't mean that he doesn't use Pokemon to battle.
Also, like a different anon said, Pokeballs could be used for convenience sake. It sounds reasonable, I sure as fuck am not going to walk around with a Snorlax.

I understood that your argument was that "N's philosophy is correct."

You say that slavery is wrong but,

>Oh my god you're defending slavery
You're acting like slavery is this horrible thing because the only slaves you know were mistreated. You're being ignorant. Slaves were SUPPOSED to be taken into ones family and treated as a member of one's own blood.

Either way, what I meant wasn't that Pokemon are slaves, but that they are loyal to their masters.

How is that different?

Like I compared earlier, Pokemon are like Samurai, and as such, they do what their "masters" told them to. Even if the master ordered the assassination of someone else, the Samurai would do it. Likewise, if a Pokemon was ordered to use earthquake on a building, it would do so because it's master told them to.

The philosophy of N is that Pokemon need to be liberated, but that's not the case. Pokemon Trainers need to be held under stricter rules.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Apr 2013 06:31:05 No.11951179 Report

Quoted By:

>>11947242
>>Slaves were SUPPOSED to be taken into ones family and treated as a member.
No, slaves were property and were treated as such. Some people like to keep their cars clean and shiny and some like to run them into the ground and trash them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Apr 2013 06:35:46 No.11951200 Report

Quoted By:

He was actually really evil.

>No, N, we want to stay with our trainers
>lol, fuck you, you stupid animal

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