/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #12133494

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Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 08:24:49 No.12133494 View View Reply Original Report

>6th gen
>ferrothorn and skarmory get evolutions

So would both of them go uber, or would smogon just ban them with eviolite?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 08:26:20 No.12133495 Report

Quoted By:

Not this shit again

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 08:33:00 No.12133510 Report

Quoted By:

Doubt they would be overpowered since everything else will get stronger too. But from observing what they did in Gen 4/5, I bet smogonfags will ban half the game in Gen 6.......just watch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 08:42:04 No.12133539 Report

Quoted By: >>12133544 >>12133626

Smogon doesn't do complex bans, so they'd go Uber.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 08:43:10 No.12133544 Report

Quoted By: >>12133555

>>12133539

Drizzle + Swift Swim.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 08:44:43 No.12133550 Report

Quoted By:

>6th gen
>Shuckle gets evo
>eviolite shuckle
>mfw

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 08:45:48 No.12133555 Report

Quoted By: >>12133563

>>12133544

That ban wasn't against their policy. It was merely unorthodox.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 08:48:52 No.12133563 Report

Quoted By: >>12133588

>>12133555
Smogon fanboy detected.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 08:55:01 No.12133588 Report

Quoted By:

>skarmory evo
yes please.

>>12133563
troll detected

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:02:51 No.12133626 Report

Quoted By: >>12133653

>>12133539
Drizzle + Swift Swim
Latios/Latias with Soul Dew
Shell Smash and Baton Pass in RU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:06:57 No.12133638 Report

Quoted By: >>12134150

>thinking slow defensive non-legendary pokemon will ever get banned
>thinking eviolite pre-evolutions are better than evolutions

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:10:00 No.12133647 Report

Quoted By: >>12133708 >>12133777

>Hurrdurr Eviolite turns everything into an Immortal Titan Dragon God

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:10:53 No.12133653 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133626

>Latios/Latias with Soul Dew

That isn't a complex ban.

Soul Dew itself is banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:22:35 No.12133708 Report

Quoted By: >>12133721 >>12133761

>>12133647

On a Pokemon like Ferrothorn? Most definitely.

Eviolite boosts Defense and Special Defense by 50%.

Ferrothorn + Eviolite = 196 base Defense and 174 base Special Defense

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:25:18 No.12133721 Report

Quoted By: >>12133806

>>12133708

people would just use more knock off/trick if this happened

or more likely the 14 year old smogon mods would whine and cry and get it banned

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:34:16 No.12133761 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133708
leftovers > eviolite with the exception of chansey since its defense is pitifully low. it's like you've never even looked at the tiers

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:36:38 No.12133777 Report

Quoted By: >>12133793 >>12133952

>>12133647
Basically half of OU would be monsters if they had access to eviolite.
>blissey
>celebi
>cloyster
>donphan
>forretress
>garchomp
>Gliscor
>Hippowdon
>jellicent
>jirachi
>scizor
>vaporeon
and thats just off the top of my head

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:39:07 No.12133793 Report

Quoted By: >>12133823 >>12133872

>>12133777
but they would be useless since their evolution would be better

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:41:15 No.12133806 Report

Quoted By: >>12133822

>>12133721
.... If you force someone to run Knock Off [or worse, Trick] just for that it's fucking powerful enough.
Plus, not many powerful Pokemon have the access to it or the moveslot to spare.

Stay bad you pleb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:44:46 No.12133822 Report

Quoted By: >>12133857

>>12133806

Both Knock Off and Trick are great moves that ruin almost everything (not just eviolite users), and almost every Psychic and Ghost gets Trick.

Clueless smogonfag......

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:45:02 No.12133823 Report

Quoted By: >>12133841

>>12133793
Maybe. It depends on the evolution. If it was just a bulkier version, then yes.
But when you start getting into shit like setup sweepers who can run eviolite, you end up with a cloyster with 3 or 4 shell smashes or etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:50:13 No.12133841 Report

Quoted By: >>12133856 >>12133859 >>12133874 >>12133875 >>12134046

>>12133823
yet there is not one eviolite pokemon that is used more often than its evolution. the only purpose of eviolite is making pre-evolutions usable in lower tiers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:52:39 No.12133856 Report

Quoted By: >>12133873

>>12133841
thats because nothing really good has gotten an evolution.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:52:40 No.12133857 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133822
knock off is not worth wasting a moveslot on. trick isn't an effective counter either since 1) all trick users are choice'd and 2) being given an eviolite basically means you have no item anymore

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:52:51 No.12133859 Report

Quoted By: >>12133873 >>12133883

>>12133841
>purpose
>tiers

Pick one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:55:51 No.12133872 Report

Quoted By: >>12133892

>>12133793
But if their evo would be that much better, it'd be too OP. So either their evo is OP, and gets b&, or they're too powerful with eviolite, in which case they get b&.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:55:53 No.12133873 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133856
why would it make a difference? an OU pokemon getting an evolution just means the evolution would have insane stats. its pre-evo with eviolite would still be outclassed

>>12133859
wat

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:56:13 No.12133874 Report

Quoted By: >>12133888

>>12133841
>there is not one eviolite pokemon that is used more often than its evolution

eviolite chansey

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 233_porygon2_by_bogeymankurt-d3e (...).png, 159KiB, 900x506

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:56:18 No.12133875 Report

Quoted By: >>12133888

>>12133841

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:58:06 No.12133883 Report

Quoted By: >>12133893

>>12133859

They add diversity to the metagame.

Want to see what the metagame would be like without tiers? Play Ubers. Everything's allowed there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 09:59:07 No.12133888 Report

Quoted By: >>12133989

>>12133874
blissey is more common

>>12133875
not really a fair comparison since P2 has better defensive stats than PZ in the first place

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:00:40 No.12133892 Report

Quoted By: >>12133896

>>12133872
people said the same rubbish in previous gens. "oh fuck rhydon's getting and evolution? that shit will be banned". ended up UU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:00:49 No.12133893 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133883
Ubers is the most balanced tier
Want to see jumpluff kick the asses of jokingly powerful pokemon?
Ubers

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:01:40 No.12133896 Report

Quoted By: >>12133906

>>12133892

electivire was hyped too, and it turned out to be a piece of shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:05:07 No.12133906 Report

Quoted By: >>12133909 >>12133912

>>12133896
And now in Gen 5 Haxorus
>Holy shit 147 Attack Sheeeeeit

It's now UU

And don't forget the Kyurems
>HOLY SHIT 170 ATTACK

Kyurem-B is now OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:06:06 No.12133909 Report

Quoted By: >>12133927

>>12133906

Haxorus isn't UU YET.

But it is the least used Pokemon in OU, and if its usage doesn't pick up in the next three months before the tiers change again, yeah, it's going to UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:07:06 No.12133912 Report

Quoted By: >>12133917 >>12133923

>>12133906

Well, if Kyurem-B was put in its proper uber
place, Haxorus would jump right back to OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:08:28 No.12133917 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133912
but kyubey a shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:09:45 No.12133923 Report

Quoted By: >>12133938

>>12133912

Kyurem-B sucks, though. He's right at home in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:09:55 No.12133925 Report

Quoted By: >>12133930

Smogons tierlists are retarded now anyway though part of that was b/w2 fucking the metagame with team preview

Its sad how small of a pool OU is now because of the "new meta"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:10:42 No.12133927 Report

Quoted By: >>12133933

>>12133909
Oh I have heard he was UU already

Which reminds me of Reuniclus

A pokémon that everyone used to stare in a mix of awe and shee terror, that even went suspect once before people found out Scizor slapped his shit among others

Liek Haxorus, it's also on the verge of dropping to UU

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO OU.png, 111KiB, 576x864

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:12:40 No.12133930 Report

Quoted By: >>12134083

>>12133925

>How small of a pool OU is now

This generation's OU has the most Pokemon of any gen.

Gen 1 OU: 16
Gen 2 OU: 24
Gen 3 OU: 26
Gen 4 OU: 48
Gen 5 OU: 51

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:13:24 No.12133933 Report

Quoted By: >>12133935

>>12133927
>scizor slaps his shit
babby doesn't run physically bulky

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:14:06 No.12133935 Report

Quoted By: >>12133940

>>12133933
shofu pls go

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:14:34 No.12133938 Report

Quoted By: >>12133941 >>12133943 >>12133945

>>12133923

>CB outrage slams even steel types
>can avoid OHKOes even from SE moves
>free switch-in on many electric and water types
>sucks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:15:00 No.12133940 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133935
shofu?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:15:23 No.12133941 Report

Quoted By: >>12133951

>>12133938

sneaky pebbles
no physical ice move

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:16:47 No.12133943 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133938
>Weak to rocks, also vulnerable to spikes and toxic spikes
>Weak to many commom atatckers like Terrakion
>Weak to almost every Priority Move
>No Ice STAB
>95 speed means he'll be outpaced by many stuff

Kyurem-B is a strong force, but it doesn't realize centralizwe OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:17:40 No.12133945 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133938
>less moves than flareon
>SR weakness
>specially outclassed by its original form
>good

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:18:04 No.12133946 Report

Quoted By: >>12133949

>>12133494
Uber definitely. Both have reliable means of healing and offense and phazing. It'd literally be impossible to break through anymore.

Knock Off/Trick would be required too much making it easy to predict. Even than a Skarmory/Ferrothorn without an Evolite is still a threat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:19:47 No.12133949 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133946
>Ferrothorn
>Realiable means of recovery

Rest + Chesto Berry only works once, and Leech Seed can be easily negated

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:19:52 No.12133950 Report

Quoted By:

How come nobody uses gligar as a physical wall in ou? It straight up absorbs physical attacks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:19:57 No.12133951 Report

Quoted By: >>12133958 >>12133961 >>12133966 >>12133967

>>12133941

Honestly, I think it's insane that an obviously Uber Pokemon is allowed just because of "sneaky pebbles". Is Rayquaza now not uber? Is Ho-Oh? Is Lugia? Is Reshiram?

And Outrage slams everything that an Ice move would hit. Besides, he has Ice Beam, and 120 base Special Attack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:20:20 No.12133952 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133777
>scizor
>yfw Scizor is still a 2nd stage evo and dominates almost all of OU
>Only has 500 BST
>the assrape to come

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:21:25 No.12133958 Report

Quoted By: >>12133963

>>12133951
>b-b-but kyu-b can do special too
>implying that kyurem doesn't do special better

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:22:31 No.12133961 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133951
Because its not very good.
Currently 5% of OU teams use it. If it was better, it would be used MUCH more often. Remember when genesect was OU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:22:52 No.12133963 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133958

Not a special set, just Choice Band. Outrage everything, and Ice Beam would be for like......2 Pokemon (Gliscor and Landorus-T).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:23:38 No.12133966 Report

Quoted By: >>12133974

>>12133951
That goes to show that despite the weakness to Backstage Dwayne Johnson's being a factor it's not the sole reason Kyurem-B is OU

Anyway, let's talk a little about those three examples

>Rayquaza has 150 base Attack in both stats, an extensive movepool and can slap everyone's shit with a DD or a Sd set
>Ho-Oh has regenerator, is very bulky and Sacred Fire burns stuff without faling
>Reshiram is pretty much a sun Kyogre. Even Chansey won't like taking a Blue Flare from a Specs Reshiram in the sun

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:23:41 No.12133967 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133951

it's not just sneaky pebbles

it's hurt by all three entry hazards

it's weak to both bullet punch and mach punch

lots of pokemon in OU (for example, terrakion and latios) are faster and can hit it with a powerful super-effective move like close combat or draco meteor

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:25:37 No.12133974 Report

Quoted By: >>12133978 >>12133979 >>12133980

>>12133966

OK, so let's talk about Reshiram. Nothing likes a Blue Flare in the sun, as you said. But nothing likes a CB Outrage from Kyurem-B either. Why is this different?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:27:42 No.12133978 Report

Quoted By: >>12133981

>>12133974

OU's Steel types actually tank an outrage from Kyurem-B pretty well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:28:17 No.12133979 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133974
>what is STAB
>what is sun boost
>but special offensive isn't any better than physical offense, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:29:41 No.12133980 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133974
Because for Starters Blue Flare together with Draco Meteor make Reshiram have unresisted STABs thanks to Turboblaze. Dragon/Fire as a typing it's a lot better than Dragon/Ice as a typing. Besides most Steel-types can take Kyurem-B and smack his shit afterwards

What you have to understand is that raw power is not enough to cut into Ubers, otherwise Rampardos would be Uber too

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:30:41 No.12133981 Report

Quoted By: >>12134007 >>12134008

>>12133978

CB Scizor is 2HKOed, so is CB Metagross and Specs Magnezone. Only the defensive steels like Ferrothorn, Forretress and Skarmory can take it. Is it good for the game to require a defensive steel type for every team?

That's the main difference (for me) between, say, Haxorus, and Kyurem-B - that the "offensive steels" like Max Hp Max Attack CB Metagross, can take 2 Outrages from Hax, but not Kyurem-B.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:34:26 No.12133989 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133888

> My statement applies except where it doesn't and if it doesn't, it's unfair

I bet you believe in Arceus

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO purple.jpg, 100KiB, 718x700

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:45:04 No.12134007 Report

Quoted By: >>12134013

>>12133981
>arguing a pokemon with 5% usage in OU is too powerful for OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:46:23 No.12134008 Report

Quoted By: >>12134012

>>12133981
but can kyu-b take 2 bullet punches from scizor?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:50:20 No.12134012 Report

Quoted By: >>12134023

>>12134008

Of course not, but I'm not switching into that. I'll switch into your Starmie instead, and now you're forced to let Starmie faint....or let your Scizor faint instead.

My main point is - should a Pokemon that OHKOes almost everything nonresistant, and 2HKOes most of the resists, while often avoiding OHKOes even from super effective moves, be allowed in OU? My answer is no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:50:43 No.12134013 Report

Quoted By:

>>12134007

this, if kyurem-b was really good, it would be used more, like when genesect was the most used pokemon in OU before it got banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 10:59:15 No.12134023 Report

Quoted By: >>12134026 >>12134033

>>12134012
Terrakion does basically the same thing
The answer is exactly the same
Have a fucking revenge killer

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:01:21 No.12134026 Report

Quoted By: >>12134030

>>12134023

Terrakion is worse

A Choice Band Close Combat from him 2HKOs Skarmory

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:04:25 No.12134030 Report

Quoted By:

>>12134026
then come in and revenge kill it you fucking mug
you can't expect walls survive wallbreakers

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:05:10 No.12134033 Report

Quoted By: >>12134041

>>12134023

Except Ghosts are immune to CC, while nothing is immune to Outrage (Sure he can use Stone Edge, but that has less power, misses, and still has 3 resists VS Outrage's one). Also, after the defense drops, almost everything, even neutral attacks, will OHKO Terrakion. Not so with Kyurem-B, who pretty much requires a Close Combat, or a Draco Meteor/Outrage, to be reliably OHKOed...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:09:07 No.12134041 Report

Quoted By: >>12134060

>>12134033
>ban the drogins I cant be immune to them WAAAH!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:16:05 No.12134046 Report

Quoted By: >>12134054

>>12133841
Dusclops.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:21:32 No.12134054 Report

Quoted By:

>>12134046

This, Eviolite makes Dusclops better than Dusknoir (though they're both still awful)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:25:43 No.12134060 Report

Quoted By:

>>12134041
hehe

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:31:43 No.12134083 Report

Quoted By: >>12134085

>>12133930
Only the first 28 of those ever get used though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:33:21 No.12134085 Report

Quoted By: >>12134115

>>12134083

False.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:33:56 No.12134086 Report

Quoted By: >>12134097

>>12133494
what gets more used over
the least used OU pokemon or the most used UU pokemon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:40:13 No.12134097 Report

Quoted By:

>>12134086
I think Heracross gets used less than Haxorus

294

294 Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:46:01 No.12134115 Report

Quoted By: >>12134121

>>12134085
When was the last time you saw Gastrodon in OU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:47:40 No.12134121 Report

Quoted By: >>12134130

>>12134115
Today
Its a god send for sandstorm teams which need a water counter

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:50:19 No.12134130 Report

Quoted By:

>>12134121

Weatherless teams benefit from Gastrodon even more. Something needs to take those rain-boosted water attacks, and Gastrodon is the only one that completely walls Rotom-W.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Apr 2013 11:54:50 No.12134150 Report

Quoted By:

>>12133638
>Dusclops

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