/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #12227469

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Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 21:58:46 No.12227469 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12227538 >>12227627 >>12228066 >>12228225

Why is Kyurem-Black in OU? WHY THE FUCK?

OKAY SURE IT SUCKS IN UBERS BUT GODDAMN DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE EVERYONES LIFE IN OU MISERABLE?

YOU CAN'T BALANCE EVERYTHING YOU MISERABLE CUNTS!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:00:08 No.12227480 Report

Quoted By: >>12227519

because smogonfags are morons who think moody bidoof is stronger than kyurem-b

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:00:38 No.12227484 Report

Quoted By: >>12227501 >>12227515

>shit typing
>barely anything to use its attack stat with
>slower speed than a lot of offensive pokemon

I don't think it's that hard to deal with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:01:44 No.12227495 Report

Quoted By: >>12228088

It's not that good.

>Slow for OU
>Sneaky pebbles
>Weak to Bullet Punch and Mach Punch
>No moves

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:02:35 No.12227501 Report

Quoted By: >>12227512 >>12227530

>>12227484
>It can't use its attack stat very well so let's just ignore its still massively high sp attack stat and rather good bulkyness with decent speed and put it on fucking OU

This is how you sound like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:03:31 No.12227510 Report

Quoted By:

Despite having stats worthy of Ubers residency, Kyurem-B was determined by suspect test voters to be simply OU, falling just short of its White counterpart. It all comes down to a few reasons: average Speed and defensive typing, in addition to a less-than-ideal offensive movepool. These combined flaws make Kyurem-B extremely vulnerable to common super effective attacks from many faster Pokemon or priority users in OU. Its Ice typing also makes it annoyingly weak to all forms of entry hazards, which greatly lessens its effectiveness if not supported by entry hazard control. Kyurem-B's worst flaw, however, is its horrible physical movepool, which is basically limited to Fusion Bolt, Dragon Claw, and Outrage, often making it dependent on special moves for coverage. This isn't taking into account massive competition with other Dragon-types in OU, some of which boast a higher Speed stat and/or better movesets than Kyurem-B.
- the analysis page

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:03:44 No.12227512 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227501

Have you actually used Kyurem-B in OU, or played against one?

The metagame is not kind to it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:03:55 No.12227515 Report

Quoted By: >>12227927

>>12227484
>barely anything to use its attack stat with

umm........Outrage

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:04:21 No.12227519 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227480
>implying it isn't

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:04:51 No.12227524 Report

Quoted By: >>12228036

Friendly reminder that Kyurem was in UU for a while.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:06:10 No.12227528 Report

Quoted By:

Why are people still using the "no moves" argument when Outrage demolishes everything?

The "well he has a bad defensive typing" is the only decent argument, but his defenses let him take even stone edges as long as they aren't LO/CB boosted...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:06:25 No.12227530 Report

Quoted By: >>12227556

>>12227501
They wouldn't have kept it in OU in the first place if a lot of people had trouble dealing with it. 25% of its HP is shaved off from Stealth Rock and the metagame is filled with faster rock, dragon, steel, and fighting types. Fuck, it has lower usage than Infernape does.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:07:28 No.12227537 Report

Quoted By:

>tfw OP probably doesn't even play OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:07:42 No.12227538 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227469
Kyurem-B isn't even good in OU. Any steel type can take anything it throws out because of its movepuddle. Plus, it loses 25% when it comes in. If you have even a slight problem with KyuB, you should probably take a break from showdown and go play in-game.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:08:13 No.12227542 Report

Quoted By: >>12227564

Because smogonfags are stupid. Stop using their rules.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:09:34 No.12227550 Report

Quoted By:

>slow defensive ice type

WHY DO THEY KEEP MAKING THESE?

THEY DON'T WORK

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:10:15 No.12227556 Report

Quoted By: >>12227665

>>12227530

Only Terrakon has faster Stone Edge, and faster steel attacks are limited to Jirachi's Iron Head and Scizor's Bullet Punch (both of which probably don't OHKO but I didn't check). So only faster Outrages/Meteors and Close Combats remain as viable ways to OHKO him, because neutral attacks surely aren't going to do it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:10:32 No.12227558 Report

Quoted By: >>12227662

Because Kyurem-White rapes everything in sight with its unresisted STAB attacks, while Kyurem-Black can't

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:10:38 No.12227560 Report

Quoted By: >>12227893

Smogon wasn't the first to drop Kyurem-B to OU: Pokemon Online was.

Anyway, we had a suspect test. I was one of the people who played.

We tested Kyurem-B out, it turned to be pretty bad, so we voted to unban it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:10:52 No.12227564 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227542
10/10 compelling argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:13:27 No.12227579 Report

Quoted By: >>12227599 >>12227613

The cold, hard truth is that without Stealth Bullshit, no one would ever think for even one second that Kyurem-B has even a SLIGHT chance to not destroy OU completely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:15:15 No.12227593 Report

Quoted By: >>12227610

Latios and Hydreigon are faster and drop Specs/Life Orb boosted Draco Meteors on it.

Salamence and Garchomp are faster and hit it with Outrage.

Terrakion and Keldeo are faster and hit it with Close Combat and Secret Sword.

Weak to Stealth Rock, and has no moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:16:37 No.12227599 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227579

No.

Even without Stealth Rock, it's still manageable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:18:20 No.12227610 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227593

That's only a few pokemon. If you compare that to all the other OU attackers you will see that they have much more 'mons that can outspeed and KO them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:18:31 No.12227613 Report

Quoted By: >>12227630

>>12227579

It's total shit even without sneaky pebbles.

It's the worst OU dragon.

Nomoves + defensive ice type = shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:21:09 No.12227627 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227469
You must suck dick at OU if you think Kyurem-B is that overpowered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:21:40 No.12227630 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227613
Actually, Kyurem-Black is one of the best dragons in the metagame. Haxorus is the worst now, but that doesn't mean much. Haxorus remains pretty good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:27:14 No.12227662 Report

Quoted By: >>12227728

>>12227558
>unresisted STAB attacks
>Ice/Dragon

what are steel types

Kyurem's formes don't get fire or electric typing unfortunately.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:27:22 No.12227665 Report

Quoted By: >>12227690

>>12227556
>Only Terrakon has faster Stone Edge

And Infernape. And Landorus. And Landorus-T.

Scizor does up to 98% damage with Bullet Punch and 100% OHKO's it with Superpower. Outrages and Draco Meteors do a good deal of damage to it, and they're also extremely common in OU via Hydreigon, Latios, Latias, Haxorus, Dragonite, Garchomp, and Salamence. Same with Close Combat.

Face it, it's not overpowered, otherwise it would be incredibly high up in usage and it wouldn't have been voted to be kept in OU in the first place

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:31:25 No.12227690 Report

Quoted By: >>12227748 >>12227837

>>12227665
>And Infernape. And Landorus. And Landorus-T.

I meant STAB, because that's the only way it can OHKO (though maybe Sand Force LO Landorus would as well). But my main point is that having to rely on 2 pokemon types that are all destroyed by outrage, to OHKO Kyurem-B, means it should be uberized.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:34:19 No.12227709 Report

Quoted By:

I've actually swept a lot of teams with a scarfed Kyurem-B. You'd be surprised how many people aren't prepared for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:36:08 No.12227728 Report

Quoted By: >>12227741

>>12227662
you should read that post again

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:37:36 No.12227741 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227728
no YOU should read it again
None of the Kyurems have unresisted STAB combos

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:38:12 No.12227748 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227690

Everyone was already using those types anyway.

No one had to change their playstyle to handle Kyurem-B.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:46:49 No.12227837 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227690
>means it should be uberized

Not really. There are a bunch of OU Pokemon that are hard to switch into. Haxorus also has a powerful outrage and it's weak to even less types than Kyurem-B is yet it's falling in usage. Terrakion wrecks through everything with its STAB Stone Edge/Close Combat. Hydreigon barely even has a true counter because of its powerful coverage. Kyurem-B isn't the worst.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:52:54 No.12227893 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227560
You're giving a reasonable answer in an anti-smogon thread. No-one is going to listen to you I'm afraid

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 22:55:34 No.12227927 Report

Quoted By: >>12228411 >>12228429

>>12227515
>Outrage
>KOs opponent
>Gets revengekilled by lolmachpunch or Scizor's Techbullet punch
god forbid the opponent set up a Tailwind. Scizor with Tailwind is a damned Nightmare

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:01:12 No.12227981 Report

Quoted By: >>12228010

>implying that he has to use his physical attack stat

For crying out loud it has 120 base sp attack or something like that.

Its definetely bulky enough to survive SE's thrown at it too. At least by 2HKO.

Also you really need to take into consideration the other pokemon in OU, not just fucking Scizor. So many people use fucking Scizor that I no longer take pleasure in destroying their goddamned predictable strategy anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:03:55 No.12228010 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227981

might as well use regular Kyurem then.

wait he's shit too?

120 Sp.Att and no movepoll to back it up is nothing worth writing home about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:07:24 No.12228036 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227524
Kyurem was RU too, actually.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:08:15 No.12228044 Report

Quoted By:

Silly OP, if you are weak to close combat and can be outsped by a choice scarf terrakion, there's one smogon strike.

If you are weak to outrage and can be outsped by garchomp then there's two smogon strikes.

Being weak to bullet punch sealed his fate.

Smogon probably isn't capable of differentiating kyurem-b and any NU piece of shit. Power creep means everything must have 115 base speed at least and of course outrageously broken attack stats

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:11:58 No.12228066 Report

Quoted By: >>12228093 >>12228130 >>12228156

>>12227469
>mfw OP probably just glanced at the stats and hasn't played OU in his life
This is why no one takes you anti-Smogonfags seriously. I'll bet you think Regigigas is OP too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:15:27 No.12228088 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227495
>What is Outrage insta-death

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:16:34 No.12228093 Report

Quoted By: >>12228105

>>12228066
>I'll bet you think Regigigas is OP too.

Except everyone knows about Slow Start, so that snark attempt falls flatter than Gardevoir's chest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:17:40 No.12228105 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228093
>Except everyone knows about Slow Star
The existence of this thread makes me doubt that...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:22:16 No.12228130 Report

Quoted By: >>12228158 >>12228162 >>12228165 >>12228169

>>12228066

Well, I do kind of agree with you, but at the same time, I don't really like smogon's philosophy of "lol u must be a noob if you think that broken pokemon is broken. It's not broken because you can outspeed it and OHKO it with an even more broken pokemon."

I don't know. I guess kyurem-b really isn't that broken, but at the same time he kind of eliminates a lot of potential for other pokemon in OU

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:26:29 No.12228156 Report

Quoted By: >>12228180

>>12228066
I've actually had a few people trying to tell me that Regigigas isn't bad, just "underrated".

No, no, NO

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:26:47 No.12228158 Report

Quoted By: >>12228171 >>12228182

>>12228130

did Kyurem-B becoming OU actually change anything?

I don't think so, but I kinda zoned out of comp between B/W and Kyurem-B.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:27:13 No.12228162 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228130
Here's a tip: Go play OU. Use Kyreum B against any moderately good player. You're not going to be happy with the results.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:27:40 No.12228165 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228130
>but at the same time he kind of eliminates a lot of potential for other pokemon in OU

Like who?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:28:00 No.12228169 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228130
>eliminates a lot of potential for other pokemon in OU
like what? zweilous?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:28:08 No.12228171 Report

Quoted By: >>12228187

>>12228158
No, it changed nothing. The only really big tier change that's actually affected anything in a long while was Primape and Jynx moving the NU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:28:59 No.12228180 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228156
It is underrated In NU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:29:12 No.12228182 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228158
It changed virtually nothing. People in the suspect test realized Kyurem-Black was the weakest link in their team.

It promoted Dragon Spam a little more, though. Haxorus fell in usage and is nearly UU (alongside Reuniclus, but for different reasons).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:29:43 No.12228187 Report

Quoted By: >>12228215 >>12228240

>>12228171

Scolipede and Munchlax moved down to NU too.

Fucking love Scolipede in NU. He's great at setting Spikes, he outspeeds most of NU with his base 112 Speed, and hits pretty damn hard with STAB Megahorn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:33:08 No.12228215 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228187
Scolipede, yeah he's helped hyper offense (though I honestly think Garbodour does a better job at that), and Munchlax is a good phazer, but nobody has to prepare their teams to counter them. You MUST have a counter to Jynx, and either Sawk or Primape.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:34:54 No.12228225 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227469

I don't know what's the deal. I never had any problems fighting against Kyurem-blacks in OU. In fact I have yet to see anyone not getting fucked while using it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:36:36 No.12228240 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228187
I love it when someone uses Thunder Wave as I Swords Dance, thinking they will outspeed me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:39:52 No.12228258 Report

Quoted By:

He's not that hard to beat.
Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Metagross, Scizor, Salamence, and Haxorus can either outspeed or have priority moves that can beat Kyurem-B. Even my Liepard ohko'd him with Foul Play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:44:56 No.12228303 Report

Quoted By: >>12228504

>Not bitching about Terrakion
that fucker has no place in ou

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:45:19 No.12228308 Report

Quoted By: >>12228461

>arguing a pokemon with 4% usage in OU is broken

People can't be this stupid.
Remember when genesect was in OU? THATS what happens when a pokemon in a tier is broken.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:45:25 No.12228311 Report

Quoted By: >>12228322

Everything that outspeeds can deal with it, especially with the Stealth Rock weakness (Terrakion, Technician Mach Punch Breloom, Keldeo, Scizor, etc.)
If it uses a Choice Scarf, it isn't incredibly strong and only has Outrage, Dragon Claw and Fusion Bolt on the physical spectrum, which are all resisted by numerous common Pokemon which can set up on it's face (Jirachi, Jolteon, Landorus(-T), etc.)
You can't just look at something's stats alone to judge if it's overpowered or not. It has good bulk, but shitty defensive typing and Stealth Rock weakness. It has high Attack but has only two moves to use with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:47:07 No.12228322 Report

Quoted By: >>12228386

>>12228311

he can use rock smash for coverage

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:55:01 No.12228386 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228322
That's a good one. Top lel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 May 2013 23:59:39 No.12228411 Report

Quoted By:

>>12227927
Why would you leave him in for that, swap to poison if your expecting the fighting..

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 00:00:58 No.12228429 Report

Quoted By: >>12229421 >>12229560

>>12227927
If your expecting the mach, why not swap to your poison wall like your supposed to

Not enough people understand that pokemon isnt a 1v1, its a 6v6..

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 00:01:30 No.12228436 Report

Quoted By:

I run a joke team in OU and even I have no problems dealing with it. Multiscale Dragonite, Moxie Salamence or even fucking Garchomp are all better than him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 00:01:55 No.12228440 Report

Quoted By:

The only good Kyube stat is Subshuffle.

All other sets are garbage done better by other pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 00:03:51 No.12228461 Report

Quoted By: >>12228469

>>12228308
Didn't stop them from banning Deoxys-D though. IIRC he barely broke into the top twenty when he was banned. Which of course is because usage =/= viability, though there is a correlation between the two on some level.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 00:04:47 No.12228469 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228461
Exactly. I mean Metagross is OU and he should have dropped long ago.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 00:08:24 No.12228504 Report

Quoted By: >>12228511

>>12228303
>Terrakion
I hated him for the longest till I found out his counters are in the lower tiers.
Depending on his moveset, Golurk, Nidoqueen, and Claydol can counter Terrakion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 00:09:06 No.12228511 Report

Quoted By: >>12228554

>>12228504
>not using Toxicroak who beats every terrakion

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 00:14:30 No.12228554 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228511
I've tried Toxicroak but he's not bulky enough.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 01:46:20 No.12229316 Report

Quoted By: >>12229336 >>12229396 >>12229398

I'm setting up a tournament for my group of friends pretty soon.
I plan on banning anything considered Uber Tier by smogon. Now, I don't like smogon. I hate that they've basically given people a cookie cutter build for every poke and many of their rules seem as if they only exist to balance other rules they've established. However, I think that Uber tier is more or less a good thing to ban. I just don't want to see every team be full of legendaries. I'm not trying to balance things to be fair, I'd just like to bring a little more variety to the team selections.

What is it exactly that /vp/ doesn't like about smogon? Or alternatively, what rules DO you like from smogon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 01:48:49 No.12229336 Report

Quoted By: >>12229429

>>12229316
I don't like that the metagame revolves around OU and as such I've seen UU go through some serious goddamn power creep over gen 4 and 5 as time passed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 01:57:24 No.12229396 Report

Quoted By:

>>12229316
>>12229316
Not gonna lie, I had meant for this post to be a new thread. Forgot that I was in reply mode. Fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 01:57:51 No.12229398 Report

Quoted By: >>12229500

>>12229316
>>12229316
>what rules DO you like from smogon?

Sleep clause(Nintendo came up with it long ago, not smogon as I recall it). In gen 5 a sleeping pokemon is generally a worthless pokemon and without the sleep clause things like Breloom and Smeargle can spore entire teams.

Evasion clause. Yeah, there's counters but outside of technician Scyther/Scizor and Machamp/Golurk they really aren't viable in the least.

Some things I don't like are how dominant rain teams are. Yeah, they banned drizzleswim long ago but rain is still OP and the fairly recent bannings of snow cloak/sand veil (because evasion clause) only served to widen the gap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:01:58 No.12229421 Report

Quoted By: >>12229560

>>12228429
>pokemon isnt a 1v1, its a 6v6..
actually it's 3v3

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:03:27 No.12229429 Report

Quoted By: >>12229561

>>12229336

Yeah, Gen 5 UU is pretty much Gen 4 OU

Power creep is crazy. Most of the top shit in UU doesn't even look like it belongs in UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:14:16 No.12229500 Report

Quoted By: >>12229516 >>12229527 >>12229553

>>12229398

About Evasion clause:

I think its shitty to go against just like every other person, but the argument that there aren't many viable counters is horseshit.

Entry hazards DOMINATE the meta game, and there is only 1 move that counters them. 1.

Now think of how many moves and abilities ignore evasion. Yet hazards are fine, evasion is banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:16:39 No.12229516 Report

Quoted By:

>>12229500

Hazards have just been around for so long that I think the players have developed stockholm's syndrome towards them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:18:05 No.12229527 Report

Quoted By:

>>12229500
>evasion
>counters
HEREWEGO.JPG

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:21:04 No.12229544 Report

Quoted By:

because of le sneaky pebbles of course.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:22:38 No.12229553 Report

Quoted By: >>12229578

>>12229500
Because hazards don't force you into a pool of 10 viable pokemon like evasion does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:23:17 No.12229560 Report

Quoted By:

>>12228429
>>12229421
You're both thinking too small. It can be either of those things depending on what you're playing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:23:20 No.12229561 Report

Quoted By: >>12229584

>>12229429
Is Infernape UU yet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:26:29 No.12229578 Report

Quoted By: >>12229662

>>12229553

4 posts until the same old ignorant argument is regurgitated up. I was expecting 2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:27:08 No.12229584 Report

Quoted By:

>>12229561

No, it's still sitting at #32 in usage.

Haxorus though, expect him to drop in July.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 May 2013 02:40:16 No.12229662 Report

Quoted By:

>>12229578
> the same old ignorant argument
except for the part where its entirely correct. Evasion has been rigorously tested multiple times, always culminating in a metagame where a team is either evasion, or anti evasion (anti evasion also had consistently lower win records). Its blatantly overpowered and centralizing. The top 50 teams on wifi, all 50 all used evasion and remain the best.

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