/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #12444194

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Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:10:11 No.12444194 View View Reply Original Report

We all know that the Smogon tiers are determined by usage and not by opinion.

With that being said what are some Pokemon that are strong enough to compete in higher tiers but have low usage because of being underrated or un noticed?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:11:37 No.12444216 Report

Quoted By: >>12444284

Most chlorophyll sweepers.

hail abusers.

Pretty much pokemon that are excellent in their respective team archetype but their team archetype as a whole is under represented.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:12:43 No.12444235 Report

Quoted By: >>12444254

Victrebell is a nice alternative to Venusaur, but it's a bir hard to pul off

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:13:03 No.12444239 Report

Quoted By: >>12444422 >>12447407

Tornadus is really really good in OU at the moment. It's kind of a poor man's Tornadus-Therian, but it works.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:13:58 No.12444254 Report

Quoted By: >>12444272

>>12444235
Stronger, but can be revenged by some of the faster scarfers. Decent trade off. Shiftry is in a similarboat.

Are you this guy?: >>12443972

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:14:04 No.12444256 Report

Quoted By:

duh fuck and fuck legendaries.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:14:57 No.12444272 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444254
Nope

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:15:34 No.12444280 Report

Quoted By:

How about Exegutor?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:15:50 No.12444284 Report

Quoted By: >>12444300 >>12448919

>>12444216
>Pretty much pokemon that are excellent in their respective team archetype but their team archetype as a whole is under represented.

Exactly. An example most familiar to me are Trick Room sweepers/setters (or both at once!), such as Gallade, Bronzong, Druddigon, Rhyperior, Escavalier, and many others.

Honchrkow is another one, almost never used in OU, but very little can stop it once it gets one moxie boost (very easy with Pursuit), because +1 Brave Bird destroys walls, and +1 Sucker Punch demolishes sweepers. The only problems are faster Fighting types, priority, and Skarmory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:16:07 No.12444287 Report

Quoted By: >>12447824 >>12448931

Heracross and Krookodile are decent cleaners. OU sort of locked them out once it started speed creeping

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:16:43 No.12444295 Report

Quoted By:

Cofagrigus

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:17:23 No.12444300 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444284
>The only problems are faster Fighting types, priority, and Skarmory.
The problem though, is that those are everywhere in OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:18:19 No.12444319 Report

Quoted By: >>12444372

Tangtowth

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:19:37 No.12444334 Report

Quoted By: >>12444483 >>12447745

Xatu > Espeon

Crawdaunt can function in rain with some support

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:19:38 No.12444335 Report

Quoted By: >>12444402

Scrafty would be so much better without fighting types

It has amazing coverage, decent bulk, and dat Moxie

Unfortunately speed and fighting types will always suppress it . Its pretty decent with a speed boost baton passer

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:21:32 No.12444372 Report

Quoted By: >>12444434

>>12444319
I like amoonguss better than Tangrowth, he's okay though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:23:43 No.12444402 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444335

I've had EXCELLENT results with a Max HP, Max Attack Intimidate Choice Band Scrafty with HJK, Crunch, Ice Punch and Drain Punch. It was so good, I was amazed. It could get in on almost anything, and just click HJK for something to take heavy damage or faint - with Crunch scaring away ghosts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:25:09 No.12444422 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444239
I really like using the Bulk Up set

His hard and is a nice surprise to all those faggots who pull out Blissey predicting Hurricane Spam

He won't be geting past Skarmory, though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:25:58 No.12444434 Report

Quoted By: >>12444455

>>12444372
Both are great, though Amoongus is a special sponge, while Tangrowth a physical tank, and so serve different roles other than 'bulky Grass regenerator.'

Intimidate Qwilfish has amazing synergy with Landorus for a defensive 'core' in OU.

Many UU Pokemon do just fine in OU as well.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO honchkrow5.png, 750KiB, 800x1000

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:26:33 No.12444444 Report

Quoted By: >>12444475 >>12444709 >>12444842 >>12445149 >>12445336 >>12446986 >>12447616 >>12448253 >>12449096

Here is an example of a Honchkrow bringing down a 1700+ guy. Fear the Big Boss!

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-18098986

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:27:16 No.12444455 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444434
I've gotta try Qwilfish some time.

Also Abomasnow is extremely underrated, he's an amazing mixed attacker in his own right, not just as a hail setter

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:27:45 No.12444471 Report

Quoted By:

I've had great results with yanmega, but I don't want to sound like a karenfag, and it's been a while, so there's that power creep thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:28:01 No.12444475 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444444
>444444
And so we Worship the Crow

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:28:23 No.12444483 Report

Quoted By: >>12444572

>>12444334
Rocks. Also Espeon has BP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:33:16 No.12444572 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444483
Xatu works better on sun however

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:39:41 No.12444709 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444444
Oh my

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:43:12 No.12444772 Report

Quoted By:

Medicham. Enough bulk to eat a scizor BP and survive, huge attack stat, workable speed, and great movepool. Just watch out for ghosts and sucker punch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:44:48 No.12444808 Report

Quoted By: >>12444815 >>12444844

Feraligatr. Really underrated. Swords dance and aqua jet in the rain rapes a lot of shit. It gets even better when his health gets to the torrent range.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:45:13 No.12444815 Report

Quoted By: >>12444942

>>12444808
Can't wait for Sheer Force

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:47:10 No.12444842 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444444
I fear the Big Boss now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:47:15 No.12444844 Report

Quoted By: >>12444863 >>12444922

>>12444808
If you're gonna opt for superpower as feraligatr's coverage move Samurott can perform the exact same role with nearly identical stats.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1356143919379.jpg, 18KiB, 500x248

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:48:20 No.12444863 Report

Quoted By: >>12444984 >>12445035

>>12444844
Why I prefer DDGATR

Though with that said I usually use Crawdaunt anyway
>tfw no aqua jet or sucker punch

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:52:33 No.12444922 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444844
But Feraligatr has more attack and he's bulkier which makes it easier to get in to the Torrent range.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:54:05 No.12444942 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444815
Once he gets Sheer Force he'll be one of the top guys in UU and will see more usage in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:55:54 No.12444975 Report

Quoted By: >>12444990

Weezing is one of the best physical walls in the game. Excellent typing with only one (uncommon) weakness, abnormally high defense, access to Willowisp/Pain Split/Clear Smog, free switch into ground type attacks, immunity to toxic and spikes, and fire attacks to kill the more popular steel walls.

This guy can wreck most of OU's biggest threats due to how physically-oriented it is.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:56:40 No.12444984 Report

Quoted By: >>12445016

>>12444863
>Give a pokemon two stabs with decent coverage
>give it an ability that boosts its stabs
>>both of its stabs have a thematically fitting priority move
>doesn't get them
>make the pokemon slow AND frail

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:56:59 No.12444990 Report

Quoted By: >>12445065

>>12444975
Yep. He saved my ass against Scizor and Terrakion, He also rapes Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 21:58:36 No.12445016 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444984

Trick Room is his savior.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:00:18 No.12445035 Report

Quoted By: >>12445074

>>12444863
DDGATR is outlassed by Gyarados and Crawdaunt. He has to run Swords Dance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:02:06 No.12445065 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444990
I run a Swagger/Willowisp/Flamethrower/Pain Split set. Swagger helps create an opening to switch when he's stuck up against things that wall him like Heatran.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:02:40 No.12445074 Report

Quoted By: >>12445140

>>12445035
He's not priority weak like crawdaunt is at least.

If Crawdaunt ever does get priority Gatr is just hopeless sadly

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:06:39 No.12445140 Report

Quoted By: >>12445157

>>12445074
At least Mach Punch won't kill Feraligatr like it does Crawdaunt. I've had my Crawdaunt get raped by Conkeldurr's Mach Punch.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO honchkrow7.jpg, 247KiB, 620x710

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:07:08 No.12445149 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444444

Honchkrow GETs it done, indeed...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:07:37 No.12445157 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445140
That's what I meant by gatr isn't priority weak.

Sharpedo is pretty frightening in the rain too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:16:19 No.12445289 Report

Quoted By:

Vanilluxe

I'm dad serious

With Stall slowly being phazed out for Quick Stall Vanilluxe is now superior to Walrein when it comes to stalling hail damage

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1301097595293.png, 4KiB, 185x166

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:19:03 No.12445336 Report

Quoted By: >>12445355

>>12444444
>mfw he ripped through Choplezone

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:19:59 No.12445355 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445336
I had a hard time understanding that before realizing you meant hitting chople berry magnezone with super power

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:26:52 No.12445460 Report

Quoted By: >>12445469

Smogon is for fagz

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:27:17 No.12445469 Report

Quoted By: >>12445477

>>12445460
no u

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:27:47 No.12445477 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445469
That reply doesn't even make sense

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:30:08 No.12445529 Report

Quoted By: >>12445580 >>12445632 >>12445681 >>12445927

So when does that Trash Metagross drop and Heracross move up?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:32:39 No.12445580 Report

Quoted By: >>12445614

>>12445529

Never, because Metagross is such a good Choice Bander that not even a giant smogon propaganda campaign can remove it from its rightful place.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1367805730058.gif, 2MiB, 336x252

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:34:38 No.12445614 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445580
>because Metagross is such a good Choice Bander

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:35:17 No.12445632 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445529
When Heracross gets a decent speed stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:37:37 No.12445681 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445529
Metagross will never drop because of its popularity despite not being the titan it once was. It's not THAT bad, but it's definitely not a top tier threat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:43:45 No.12445777 Report

Quoted By: >>12445802 >>12445882

Just use Trick Iron Ball Metagross

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:44:57 No.12445802 Report

Quoted By: >>12446003

>>12445777
Trick Ball Metagross isn't even that good

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:49:29 No.12445878 Report

Quoted By:

>Ctrl+F
>No Sigilyph

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:49:46 No.12445882 Report

Quoted By: >>12446000 >>12446003 >>12446038

>>12445777
Only like 5% of teams actually have a trick user

Fucking pointless

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:52:16 No.12445921 Report

Quoted By: >>12445970 >>12445974

I think people hate on Metagross because they use crappy "support" sets (like stealth rock sets, the above iron ball sets, and maybe others) not realizing that his true power shows only in the CB set, which can destroy everything except Slowbro with just 3 moves. When Metagross comes into play (easy with all his resists, even multiple times in a match), it's easy to choose an attack and watch something die or take heavy damage. No other CBer can do what he does due to either much less resists (so can't switch in as often), worse attacking moves (for example anything with ground or fighting, because of common immunities), and all other CBers get fucked by intimidate. I could talk much more but I cbf, just go try it. Meteor Mash/Hammer Arm/Zen Headbutt/Bullet Punch, Trick or Explosion. Good luck!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:52:33 No.12445927 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445529
You do realize tiers are determined by usage and not by whatever smogon wants.

Metagross will drop when people stop using it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:54:56 No.12445970 Report

Quoted By: >>12445991

>>12445921
I always thought that he was still around because he walls the fuck out of outrage while being able to dish out good physical punishment at the same time, which is something Ferrothorn and Magnezone can't do, but that's just conjecture

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:55:06 No.12445974 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445921
CBgross sucks ass and is inferior to Terrakion

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:55:29 No.12445983 Report

Quoted By: >>12448102

Wh do people even use smogon rules?

seriously?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:55:48 No.12445991 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445970
People still use it because it was OU in gen IV and they're having trouble letting go

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:56:11 No.12446000 Report

Quoted By: >>12446031

>>12445882
Wait are you saying Trick is pointless because not many people use it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:56:26 No.12446003 Report

Quoted By: >>12446023

>>12445802
>>12445882

This is because no one uses the only good Metagross set,

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:57:36 No.12446023 Report

Quoted By: >>12446117

>>12446003
>the only good metagross set
But even it's pretty poor and is easily outclassed by gravity landorus

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:57:50 No.12446031 Report

Quoted By: >>12446113

>>12446000
No im saying having an entire Pokemon just to counter a trick Pokemon is useless

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:58:08 No.12446038 Report

Quoted By: >>12446053 >>12446062

>>12445882
Trick is one of the best attacks in the game. I don't know why it's so rare.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:59:08 No.12446053 Report

Quoted By: >>12446113

>>12446038
It's sort of like knock off. Good, but not a lot of pokemon have room for it.

Plus you pretty much get one shot with it, and its also situational

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 22:59:32 No.12446062 Report

Quoted By: >>12446080

>>12446038
Because basically every Pokemon has choice items anyway

Half the time you are switching one choice item for another

I really hope they take choice items out of the next game. All it does is make everything magnified

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:00:50 No.12446080 Report

Quoted By: >>12448506

>>12446062
Choice items can stay. It's Life orb that needs to go

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:03:06 No.12446113 Report

Quoted By: >>12446132 >>12446150

>>12446031
The point of it isn't to screw over Trick users. It's to use Trick yourself to both rob a sweeper's item, and ruin their speed in the process.

>>12446053
Trick can completely cripple a wall by depriving it of the ability to use healing moves, or forcing them to switch if they choose to use a status move. It's not hard to find a move slot for it when you're going to be using a choice item with it, and therefor won't be planning on switching between attacks.

You're right that it is situational, and you only get one shot with it which means you might just end up giving a choice scarf to a life orb sweeper pretty much just changing their role to a revenge killer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:03:10 No.12446117 Report

Quoted By: >>12446158

>>12446023
Exactly. Metagross shouldn't even be OU anymore, even poor Mienshao is better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:03:55 No.12446132 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446113
I prefer lagging tail sableye

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:05:03 No.12446150 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446113
Not merely ruining their Speed, but robbing them off of their Ground immunity. See: Rotom-W always fucking Gross's shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:05:42 No.12446158 Report

Quoted By: >>12446187 >>12446189 >>12446212 >>12446218

>>12446117
Shouldn't Haxorus be dropping rather than Metagross since Salamence exists?

I don't even see anyone on Smogon calling for it

I dunno it just seems weird that here is the only place I've seen a hateboner for gross

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:06:57 No.12446187 Report

Quoted By: >>12446208

>>12446158
They're both super close to dropping to UU, but Haxorus is doomed to BL while Gross would fit right in in UU

Also Metagross gets slammed on Smogon all the time. Where are you looking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:07:14 No.12446189 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446158
Haxorous could never be UU though, It would just be stuck in BL

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:08:35 No.12446208 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446187
OU usage stats

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:08:48 No.12446212 Report

Quoted By: >>12446222

>>12446158
I've seen a lot of people expecting, and wanting Haxorus to drop, and just about as many people expecting him to end up in BL.

Haxorus is at 3.97379% usage while Metagross is at 4.29298%

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:09:03 No.12446218 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446158
Haxorus will be like Staraptor, and be deemed to good for UU and it'll be banned to BL

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:09:29 No.12446222 Report

Quoted By: >>12446248

>>12446212
Who's the UU pokemon under Haxorus?

Tornadus?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:11:21 No.12446248 Report

Quoted By: >>12446286

>>12446222
Yep; at 3.41432%, so if he rises above Haxorus then Haxorus drops. Also Gastrodon is at 4.19848%, and Reuniclus is at 4.26285%, so they might be leaving before Metagross.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:12:54 No.12446271 Report

Quoted By: >>12446287 >>12446300

Why is stalling becoming extinct competitively?

It seems like defensive Pokemon keep dropping?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:13:48 No.12446281 Report

Quoted By:

Any pokemon that can wedge itself into a Trick Room+Focus Sash+Lock On+Explosion team. I rape with that shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:14:11 No.12446286 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446248
>Reuniclus in UU
I can't wait, trick room teams will get another powerful tool

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:14:12 No.12446287 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446271
Power creep in offensive moves and boost moves (like quiver dance) but not in defensive ones

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1356142379899.png, 2MiB, 680x1020

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:14:57 No.12446300 Report

Quoted By: >>12446341 >>12446494

>>12446271
It's just natural. The amount of pokemon continuously grows, yet you can still only bring 6. The burden on your defence constantly grows largely and largely, cumulative gaps in your coverage, so its natural people would drop defence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:16:13 No.12446327 Report

Quoted By: >>12446347 >>12446352 >>12446375 >>12446410

I here this word powercreep being used all the time

WTF does that mean and why is it looked upon so negatively?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO what am i readingg.jpg, 17KiB, 500x692

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:17:04 No.12446341 Report

Quoted By: >>12446358

>>12446300
Learn how to spell defense retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:17:27 No.12446347 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446327
Power creep is a fancy term for "every generation makes something stronger than the last to seem more impressive". Like how the original gen in the TCG 100 hp was good, and now 170 hp is standard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:17:39 No.12446352 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446327
*hear

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:18:02 No.12446358 Report

Quoted By: >>12446366

>>12446341
I'm Canadian

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:18:46 No.12446366 Report

Quoted By: >>12446900

>>12446358

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:19:05 No.12446375 Report

Quoted By: >>12446383

>>12446327
It's not necessarily bad, just inevitable as more Pokemon and moves are added. Remember in Gen 1 where there were two bug type moves and two ghost type moves? There was no Stone Edge or Scald back then, no Stealth Rock or Sucker Punch either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:20:16 No.12446383 Report

Quoted By: >>12446400

>>12446375
What the hell really!?

How could there be Pokemon with out stealth rock? Shit must have sucked back then

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:21:04 No.12446400 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446383
There was no Spikes either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:21:32 No.12446410 Report

Quoted By: >>12446494 >>12446661

>>12446327
As a game adds more and more content the power of things tends to slowly get higher.

Sometimes it's on purpose like in a TCG releasing overpowered new cards that overshadow old ones so people will buy the new cards.

Sometimes it's on accident because they just keep adding new stuff that needs to compete with old stuff. They want to give you reasons to use the new pokemon, so they aren't going to make many pokemon that are 100% worse than old ones. They'll try to make ones that have pros and cons that make the new one worth using, but balance is difficult to achieve, and in many cases those new pokemon end up stronger than intended when their pros outweigh their cons, and then next generation they need to make pokemon that are able to compete with last gen's pokemon which end up even stronger, and it slowly increases and gets out of hand when you end up with stat boosting moves that raise three stats, or Technician making Low Sweep+Breloom much stronger than most people would have initially thought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:26:02 No.12446494 Report

Quoted By: >>12446606

>>12446410
This is true, however pokemon's power creep is not strictly the same.

Pokemon's power creep has less to do with newer gen pokemon being superior to older gen pokemon, and more to do with Offence constantly outpacing defence.
>gen 2 meta: stall oriented
>gen 5 meta: hyper offensive
It's like >>12446300 says. Because defence is inherently reactionary, its job gets harder every generation with more pokemon and more unique problems like magic guard pokemon or prankster + taunt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:32:05 No.12446606 Report

Quoted By: >>12446674

>>12446494

I think that has more to do with people being lazy though - many just want to slap 6 dragons and click outrage, while stall teams require quite a bit more thought and effort to build and use...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:33:04 No.12446628 Report

Quoted By:

Hell, moveset improvements are the standard embodiment of powercreep. It wasn't uncommon in gen 1 for a regular moveset to consist of a STAB move, body slam, and two filler moves. It wasn't even uncommon for types to not have reliable stab moves (dragon/bug/ghost off the top of my head). Now we have close combat and outrage flying everywhere with relatively small drawbacks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:35:38 No.12446661 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446410
This guy right here. This guy knows this shit

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:36:19 No.12446674 Report

Quoted By: >>12446723 >>12446736 >>12446936

>>12446606
I agree with that, and Stall is definitely still possible (I use it) but it's just simply not possible to cover every relevant threat like it was in gen 2 and 3 (and to an extent 4).

This is mostly why quickstall saw a surge in gen V, as you don't need great defences or a type advantage as much as regular stall. In fact substitiute + passive recovery has given rise to a sort of "passive sweeping" technique. Venusaur can easily get by heatran using leech seed and substitute. Kyurem can easily PP stall Terrakion with a subroost combo. Tormentran can muscle past any pokemon affected by toxic (and most steel types)
>pic related

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:39:27 No.12446723 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446674
Only faggots use Gliscor though

If you think that is fun then why don't you just watch some pain dry instead?

its all about hyper offense
Salamence
Scizor
Breloom
Starmie

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:40:19 No.12446736 Report

Quoted By: >>12446759 >>12446786

>>12446674
Only faggots use Gliscor though

If you think that is fun then why don't you just watch some paint dry instead?

its all about hyper offense
Salamence
Scizor
Breloom
Starmie

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:41:37 No.12446759 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446736
>implying it isn't all the same shit
subprotect and clickoutrage2win both require the exact same amount of thought and planning. One just results in your opponent getting angry and whining like a cunt.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO image.jpg, 121KiB, 582x625

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:43:11 No.12446786 Report

Quoted By: >>12446830

>>12446736

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:45:49 No.12446830 Report

Quoted By: >>12446841

>>12446786
Only neck beards use substitute and stalling tactics

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO image.jpg, 47KiB, 388x384

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:46:55 No.12446841 Report

Quoted By: >>12446871

>>12446830

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO cinccino_by_requestfag-d4qemoh.png, 493KiB, 700x830

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:47:02 No.12446843 Report

Quoted By: >>12446858 >>12446863 >>12446878 >>12446884 >>12446887

Kinda offtopic but Smogon suggests Life Orb + Skill Link set for this thing.
But wouldn't that cause Cinccino to lose 50% of it's health after each successful turn (assuming it hits 5 times)?

Pretin

Pretin Sat 25 May 2013 23:47:58 No.12446858 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446843
no
stop planning awful things

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:48:32 No.12446863 Report

Quoted By: >>12446878 >>12446887

>>12446843
bump i also want to know this how much damage would it lose anybody?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO neckbeard.png, 189KiB, 345x337

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:49:16 No.12446871 Report

Quoted By: >>12446885

>>12446841
This is probably what you look like

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:49:54 No.12446878 Report

Quoted By: >>12446975

>>12446863
same
>>12446843
fag

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:50:08 No.12446884 Report

Quoted By: >>12446964

>>12446843
No, just 10%. It counts it as 1 attack ( be aware however that iron barbs, rough skin, and rocky helmet count it as 5 attacks)

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO image.jpg, 66KiB, 630x473

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:50:24 No.12446885 Report

Quoted By: >>12446920

>>12446871

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:50:23 No.12446887 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446843
>>12446863
>Not just using Kings Rock

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1351137384054.jpg, 54KiB, 500x626

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:51:23 No.12446900 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446366

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO seizure.gif, 21KiB, 768x646

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:53:09 No.12446920 Report

Quoted By: >>12446931 >>12447078

>>12446885
Pic related

Try coming up with your own tactics instead of just copy+pasting smogon's

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:54:15 No.12446931 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446920
Because CB scizor and scarfmoxie mence aren't the exact same shit right

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:54:39 No.12446936 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446674
>Gen 2 Stall
>when every pokemon could have max EVs in every stat
>when even the frailer sweepers were bulky enough to take several hits to kill

Please no I'm having flashbacks

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO sableye.gif, 8KiB, 600x600

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:56:51 No.12446957 Report

Quoted By: >>12446960

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:57:35 No.12446960 Report

Quoted By: >>12447000 >>12447009

>>12446957
Sableye can be used in fucking ubers if you put some care into it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:58:00 No.12446964 Report

Quoted By: >>12446991

>>12446884
I used to run Rocky Helmet Druddigon in RU just for the fun of making Cincinno KO itself by switching it into an attack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:58:49 No.12446975 Report

Quoted By: >>12446987

>>12446878
nope, sorry.
maybe next time

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:59:23 No.12446986 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444444

New king of /vp/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:59:30 No.12446987 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446975
Prove it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2013 23:59:41 No.12446991 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446964
With dragon tail and hazard stacking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:00:21 No.12447000 Report

Quoted By: >>12447009 >>12447028

>>12446960
indeed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:01:04 No.12447009 Report

Quoted By: >>12447053

>>12447000
>>12446960
How?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:02:18 No.12447028 Report

Quoted By: >>12447055 >>12447099 >>12447115

>>12447000
>pokemon with 380 bst viable in ubers defensively
>without substitute + protect fuckery
>without being steel type
Meanwhile plenty of legendaries are falling into lower tiers

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:03:29 No.12447053 Report

Quoted By: >>12447093

>>12447009
Prankster.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:03:35 No.12447055 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447028
muh shitmons

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:04:56 No.12447078 Report

Quoted By:

>>12446920
You son of a bitch! It was like that Porygon episode all over again. I bit off my own tongue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:05:32 No.12447093 Report

Quoted By: >>12447123 >>12447139 >>12447161

>>12447053
So why is that even important?

Every time I use Sableye all it does is stall some time. How do you actually take out Pokemon with it?

Its also so fucking boring

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:06:06 No.12447099 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447028
>Prankster
>Taunt
>Confuse Ray
>Will-o-wisp
>Foul Play
>Recover

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 292Shedinja[1].png, 50KiB, 203x189

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:07:53 No.12447115 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447028
>implying there isn't a pokemon with 236 BST who's viable in Ubers as a defensive pivot

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1367773854546.png, 57KiB, 148x155

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:08:08 No.12447119 Report

Quoted By:

Poliwrath can (kinda) be played in Ubers, and is especially viable wherever drizzleswim is still allowed while things like Lugia and Arceus aren't.

With Belly drum he hits ~1200 atk and ~500 speed after just one turn and has fantastic fight/ice/water coverage (Resisted only by Gyarados/Jellicent/Toxicroak/Tentacruel AFAIK). Bulky enough to withstand most unboosted priority if you run a sitrus berry - at least I think it's the sitrus berry that restores 25% health.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:08:40 No.12447123 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447093
Priority Will-o-Wisp shuts down anything physical. Taunt stops anything from setting up. Recover, recovers obviously. And Foul Play can hit ridiculously hard. It's not great, but it works, sometimes spectacularly well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:09:47 No.12447139 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447093
Cripples pokemon with Will-o-Wisp, stops them from setting up with Taunt, uses their own attack against them with Foul Play, and forces switches by outhealing their damage with Recover.

There's more to winning a match than just pressing an attack button.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO nnnnn.jpg, 50KiB, 402x402

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:11:30 No.12447161 Report

Quoted By: >>12447192

>>12447093
>Every time I use Sableye all it does is stall some time. How do you actually take out Pokemon with it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:14:03 No.12447192 Report

Quoted By: >>12447216 >>12447221 >>12447223 >>12447239 >>12447322

>>12447161
Its so retarded having Sableye because it gives time for other teams to set up Stealth Rocks and Spikes

I dont believe in using Rapid Spinners

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:15:50 No.12447216 Report

Quoted By: >>12447237

>>12447192
>what does taunt do
>man I hate when people set up hazards
>but I'm not going to do anything to stop them, or remove them since Stealth Rocks should just be banned anyways

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:16:22 No.12447221 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447192
Tip; Aerodactyl can pretty much kill any attempt to set up hazards with taunt.

Even with team preview, people will rarely bother to switch their hazard inducer out of the lead spot and most of these pokemon can't do anything to harm aerodactyl back. (Mew's explosion is I think the most damaging, hitting for roughly ~76% with a normal gem.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:16:23 No.12447223 Report

Quoted By: >>12447255

>>12447192
>Do you even priority Taunt?
Also, you can not believe in rapid spinners all you want, but you don't get to bitch about entry hazards if you won't use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:17:29 No.12447237 Report

Quoted By: >>12447255 >>12447274

>>12447216
I dont think Stealth Rocks should be banned

They are just a handicap and waste a turn when you are going up superior a hyper offense that takes no problems from lame sneaky pebbles

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:17:40 No.12447239 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447192
motherfucker prankster + motherfucker taunt

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:19:09 No.12447255 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447223
see
>>12447237

Worrying about SR is a waste. A good Offense can just plow through any threat from hazards.

Setting up hazards like I said is just a waste of turns

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:20:14 No.12447274 Report

Quoted By: >>12447303

>>12447237
That's why you don't set them up against an HO team. A good player doesn't lead with Stealth Rocks on the first turn every game. You see it all the time in the Showdown Replay threads in low ranking replays where someone will set up Hazards at the start while the opponent sets up Dragon Dances, and sweeps their whole team. That's just bad play; not the move being bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:22:44 No.12447303 Report

Quoted By: >>12447353 >>12447381

>>12447274
If you're going against hyper offence skip hazards (unless you're dedicated stall, you might want to set up toxic spikes)

If you're running hyper offence you want as many hazards as possible to net more kos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:24:05 No.12447322 Report

Quoted By: >>12447350

>>12447192
>Stealth Rocks and Spikes
>Taunt

Sableye isn't some catch-all wondermon some people play it up to be, but against Pokemon who aren't 1. notably strong special attackers or 2. Fire type, Sableye has the tools the effectively play around and shut down most Pokemon.

The two Pokemon who don't care for Taunt, the Magic Bouncers, hate Foul Play.
You could technically remove the special attacking weakness if you use Calm Mind, but you then set yourself up for getting Crit-ed and create an even longer stall due to lack of non-WoW damage.

Still, it's good at what it does, especially against things that want to set up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:26:43 No.12447350 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447322
All the more reason people want an evolution.

Sableye as a defensive pokemon is let down by stats and nothing else, no movepool, typing, or ability problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:27:00 No.12447353 Report

Quoted By: >>12447394

>>12447303
No. If you're running hyper offense, you want to spend the minimal number of turns setting hazards and maximize the number of turns hitting.

Unless you take a time capsule to play during the time of Deo-S/D, who was the ultimate HO setup Pokemon, you set up as little as possible [this doesn't mean you don't set up, just no more than you need]. HO loves suicide leads for this reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:28:32 No.12447381 Report

Quoted By: >>12447405 >>12447417

>>12447303
That's what I was trying to say basically.

A lot of people make the mistake in thinking that entry hazards are only there for trying to wear down pokemon to death with residual damage Which may be true for some stall teams when one of their biggest strengths to instead change a 2 hit KO into a 1 hit KO.

In many cases dealing 99% damage with an attack isn't any better than dealing 50% since you're still going to need two hits to take them out either way, but with entry hazards it makes a big difference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:29:20 No.12447394 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447353
Custap skarmory's job is to get up rocks and as many spikes as possible. While its true you dont want to spend too much time setting up HO absolutely loves the extra damage, and skarmory's access to whirlwind provides it with the insurance to stop your opponent from setting up as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:30:35 No.12447405 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447381
And then you come across that asshole that's using subroost dragon tail hone claws Kyube

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:30:43 No.12447407 Report

Quoted By: >>12447434

Mew really should be OU by now.

>>12444239
It was OU before Tornadus-T. Wouldn't be surprised if it made a comeback.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:31:25 No.12447417 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447381
And then you come across that asshole that's using subroost dragon tail hone claws Kyube and you're taking 25% from dragon tail and 25% from hazards as well as hail

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:33:59 No.12447434 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447407
Mew's been so wishy washy with its tier placement, maybe it'll rise, maybe not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:38:39 No.12447479 Report

Quoted By: >>12447654

SO WHY ARE YOU HOME ALONE POSTING ON A NERDY IMAGE BOARD SMOGON THREAD DURING PRIME TIME MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:40:39 No.12447495 Report

Quoted By: >>12447504 >>12447620

Ditto works really well in OU and Ubers and meh in everything else. I find just the threat of it stops mindless stat-upping and outrage spamming.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:41:30 No.12447504 Report

Quoted By: >>12447508

>>12447495
Well, except against moxiemence, as most people are willing to take the 50% chance

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:42:03 No.12447508 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447504
scarf* moxiemence

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:45:05 No.12447550 Report

Quoted By: >>12447569 >>12447654

SWORDS DANCE CACTURNE

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:46:30 No.12447569 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447550
Substitute Swords dance

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:49:18 No.12447616 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444444
Fairy Type confirmed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:49:29 No.12447620 Report

Quoted By: >>12447642

>>12447495
The nice thing about Ditto is that its power is directly proportionate to the power of the pokemon in the tier that it's in, so it can be really good in the highest tiers without being overpowered in the lower ones.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:50:33 No.12447642 Report

Quoted By: >>12447685 >>12447689

>>12447620
it can be played around though
>the foes ditto transformed into terrakion!
>terrakion used substitute

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:51:16 No.12447654 Report

Quoted By: >>12447700

>>12447479
My flu prevents me from visiting friends.

>>12447550
Has issues with things that Sub, but is the definition of high risk, high reward. Has a small niche in OU due to prevalence of Drizzle boosted Water attacks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:53:48 No.12447685 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447642
True. Still Ditto is wonderfully versatile and effective.

More versatile in lower tiers due to not needing to Scarf all the time, despite it being more effective in OU/Ubers, due to the sheer high risk-high reward environment for sweeping found there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:54:04 No.12447689 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447642
Yeah Ditto is not the easiest pokemon to use. And situations like that is why you make sure to scout or reserve it for revenge killing.

And Moxiemence is the biggest problem which is why I usually run a second scarfer or priority with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:54:51 No.12447700 Report

Quoted By: >>12447753

>>12447654
What are you talking. The first thing I do when I catch the flu is deliberately infect all my friends, and then we all take off work and hang out together. We call it Flu Parties. We don't even need drugs to have fun, the fever hallucinations suffice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:58:33 No.12447745 Report

Quoted By: >>12447796

>>12444334
>Xatu>Espeon
mahnigga.jpg
I use one with U-Turn, Wish, Thunder Wave, and Night Shade. Works like a charm.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 00:58:49 No.12447753 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447700
Probably cause u r a faget

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:00:08 No.12447768 Report

Quoted By: >>12447782

Heracross and FrolASS really need to go up to Bl how exactly is staraptor forever in Bl when i see heracross in 80% of my 1600~ uu games on showdown sure hes beatable but so is staraptor so honestly one or the other should move

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:00:54 No.12447782 Report

Quoted By: >>12451300

>>12447768
Why would Froslass be BL

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:01:13 No.12447788 Report

Quoted By: >>12447798 >>12447805 >>12447808 >>12447819

Im trying to make a BL team but how the fuck does this work when there are only 5 different Pokemon to choose from?

Is it only 3v3 matches?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:01:49 No.12447796 Report

Quoted By: >>12447823 >>12447841

>>12447745
Xatu is probably my favorite gen 2 pokemon, but being SR weak on a pokemon that you would want to switch in to use magic bounce, and U-Turn out is a pretty big disadvantage. Maybe I should try Natu out in PU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:02:05 No.12447798 Report

Quoted By: >>12447834

>>12447788
BL stands for Borderline.

It's not a tier. It's where pokemon banned from UU but are not technically OU based on usage go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:02:27 No.12447805 Report

Quoted By: >>12447834

>>12447788
your allowed to use anything in the tier or lower

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:02:40 No.12447808 Report

Quoted By: >>12447834

>>12447788
Wut

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:03:34 No.12447819 Report

Quoted By: >>12447834

>>12447788
Borderline isn't a real tier.

It's for pokemon who are too strong for UU, and would make the game all about those few pokemon, but don't get used enough to be in OU through the way tiers usually work. It's like how Ubers isn't meant as a regular tier, but is more of a ban list.

If you want to use BL pokes you should just play OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:03:52 No.12447823 Report

Quoted By: >>12447883

>>12447796
You are supposed to block the rocks from being set up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:03:54 No.12447824 Report

Quoted By: >>12447844

>>12444287
I really like Heracross, never used Krookodile.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO U MAD.jpg, 678KiB, 2340x1755

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:04:44 No.12447834 Report

Quoted By: >>12447936

>>12447798
>>12447805
>>12447808
>>12447819
Tricked you

HAH

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:05:23 No.12447841 Report

Quoted By: >>12447850

>>12447796
The SR weakness hasn't been a problem since I usually send him out when it's being used so it bounces back. He could support himself with wish anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:05:37 No.12447844 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447824
Krook is cool, Choice locked EQ is easily exploited though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:06:09 No.12447850 Report

Quoted By: >>12447907

>>12447841
What about Tyranitar being a popular SR user?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:08:48 No.12447883 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447823
Easier said than done. It works out perfectly well until you end up switching into a TTar Stone Edge/Crunch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:11:25 No.12447907 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447850
I lead with Infernape so most Tyranitars switch.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO omastar0504.png, 246KiB, 467x319

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:11:45 No.12447912 Report

Quoted By: >>12447943 >>12447988

>ctrl+f
>no Omastar
really?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:14:10 No.12447936 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447834
>>>/b/

This is a thread for adult discussion

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:14:54 No.12447943 Report

Quoted By: >>12447948

>>12447912
more like HOMOstar #rekcd

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:15:19 No.12447948 Report

Quoted By: >>12447988

>>12447943
more like, Homestar Runner!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:15:20 No.12447950 Report

Quoted By: >>12447957 >>12447966

Tangrowth shouldn't be RU, considering that it works great in OU. Same goes to Slowking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:16:02 No.12447957 Report

Quoted By: >>12447969

>>12447950
>Tangrowth shouldn't be RU, considering that it works great in OU
Someone literally has no idea how tiers work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:17:00 No.12447966 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447950
Did you not even read the OP post?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:17:06 No.12447969 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447957
He's saying that it's criminal people don't use them enough to be in OU. It's like how people say it's bullshit Metagross is OU because noobs are keeping him there

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:19:18 No.12447988 Report

Quoted By: >>12449042

>>12447912
>>12447948
Mach Punch

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:20:25 No.12447998 Report

Quoted By: >>12448023 >>12448047

When they inevitably drop in popularity even more do you think Haxorus and Hydregion will be allowed to rampage around UU or will they be bannished to BL like Kyurem

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:22:27 No.12448023 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447998
Definitely BL

maybe not Hydreigon actually, as it has no speed boosting moves and UU has a shitload of fighting types

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:24:43 No.12448047 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447998
Likely BL

I mean, come on, Haxorus is still 147 base attack with STAB outrage on a respectable speed. Nothing short of Ferrothorn can take that. And they couldn't even grab a Skarmory or Forretress to protect themselves.

Hydreigon on the other hand is sort of debatable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:25:10 No.12448053 Report

Quoted By: >>12448063 >>12448087

I really hope Fairy is SE against and Immune to Fighting types

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:26:05 No.12448063 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448053
I don't mind the specifics, so long as we can have a dragon resist with no overlapping weaknesses with steel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:27:24 No.12448078 Report

Quoted By: >>12448099

People should run Registeel sets with curse. Inside the rain It's a motherfucking wallbreaker.
Also, Porygon-Z should be BL, It's just that It's not that good.. But still a good special attacker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:28:01 No.12448087 Report

Quoted By: >>12448107

>>12448053
>ghost 2.0
>shafting ghost type even harder

ghosts are already uncommon and most of them other then Gengar are in lower tiers

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:28:45 No.12448099 Report

Quoted By: >>12448164

>>12448078
Porygon-Z is UU

also Registeel is still getting fucked over by powerful repeated attacks. Rain Boosted Hydro Pumps are going to eat it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:28:54 No.12448102 Report

Quoted By:

>>12445983

Because no one wants to run around fighting constant Blazikens, Reshirams and Kyogres.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:29:17 No.12448107 Report

Quoted By: >>12449998

>>12448087
SE against Dragon and Fighting

Resistant to Fighting
Immune to Dragon

There thats better

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:29:40 No.12448112 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444194
OP just described all of BL tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:33:51 No.12448164 Report

Quoted By: >>12448190 >>12448210

>>12448099
Porygon-Z has the right stats to start a sweep with Triple attack, adaptability and a choice scarf, once Steel, rock and ghost types are taken out.
Also, Registeel is a good curse Pokémon because it's like a less-bulky Bronzong without levitate, but with a lot of support moves and curse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:35:31 No.12448189 Report

Quoted By: >>12448213

So how often do tier changes happen?

I just looked up the usage stats for RU in April, and noticed that Alomomola has higher usage than Mandibuzz. If it stays that way for the next month does that mean Alomomola will become RU, and Mandibuzz NU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:35:40 No.12448190 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448164
I prefer download + agility porygon-Z

it's actually more powerful than adaptability and can sweep without removing ghosts and steel types, though it needs more passive damage so rocks plus spike stacking

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:36:26 No.12448210 Report

Quoted By: >>12448241

>>12448164
>Porygon-Z has the right stats to start a sweep with Triple attack, adaptability and a choice scarf, once Steel, rock and ghost types are taken out.
So in perfect conditions, it can sweep, just like every other Pokemon in existence.

I mean, it's not like Steel types are popular in OU or anything.

>Also, Registeel is a good curse Pokémon because it's like a less-bulky Bronzong without levitate, but with a lot of support moves and curse.
Because being like another Pokemon but worse(Bronzong has tons of support) is great and curse is a fantastic thing to have when you're weak to half the metagame while you're busy setting up and you're boosting your physical defense when special attackers are on the rise due to rain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:36:31 No.12448213 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448189
I believe they're every month, but they may be like every two or three months and they just bring in the usage stats each month

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:37:38 No.12448241 Report

Quoted By: >>12448261

>>12448210
All porygon-Z needs to sweep is an agility

It's not hard since he has extremely high initial power from the get go

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:38:26 No.12448253 Report

Quoted By: >>12448275

>>12444444
>http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-18098986

Man despite the Honchkrow rape you're kind of a n00b. Moxie is the only reason you won.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:38:49 No.12448261 Report

Quoted By: >>12448296

>>12448241
Then mach punch ends your sweep.
Then swift swim ends your sweep
Then a steel type comes out and either has bullet punch to end your sweep, or resists it entirely, sets up on you, and then starts sweeping you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:40:27 No.12448275 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448253
Yeah he was just spamming sucker punch without any good predictions

He clearly is a casual

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:42:06 No.12448296 Report

Quoted By: >>12448310 >>12448410

>>12448261
>swift swim
drizzleswim is banned, unless you meant manual rain (top lel)
>steel types
aren't looking forward to hidden power fighting no

252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Adaptability Porygon-Z (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fighting) vs 252HP/168SpDef Leftovers Ferrothorn (+SpDef): 60% - 71% (212 - 252 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

and of course mach punch ends your sweep. and there's what, 1 really common user of it in OU and 2 somewhat niche users of it?

It's not a perfect sweeper, but its an incredibly versatile one that should not be under estimated and hardly needs perfect conditions

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:44:00 No.12448310 Report

Quoted By: >>12448328 >>12448341

>>12448296
Manual rain is actually really fucking strong in uu

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:45:13 No.12448328 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448310
Well yes, But I was speaking about OU since this thread is "pokemon in lower tiers that are good in OU".

and agility Porygon-Z outspeeds kingdra even in rain

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:46:17 No.12448341 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448310
It is, but they were talking about OU, and you aren't likely to get a good chance to set rain up if you've got a sweeper already set up in your face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:52:59 No.12448410 Report

Quoted By: >>12448469 >>12448485

>>12448296
So you're relying on your opponent not having a Breloom, an Infernape, that Ferrothorn not having thunder wave, no other priority (prankster or otherwise) users, no blisseys, chanseys, or any other special walls, and seemingly no ghost types either. Or Choice Scarf users above 100 base speed (depending on your EVs) and magically having a turn to already be set up without taking any damage or being crippled.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:58:18 No.12448469 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448410
90 at +2 outspeeds scarf latios, taking some damage is no big deal, ghosts die to dark pulse, and only mach punch can KO Z if he's healthy.

So
>remove remove mach punchers
>remove blissey /chansey

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 01:59:21 No.12448485 Report

Quoted By: >>12448526 >>12448628

>>12448410
>relying
right, because no other sweepers are a part of an offensive core to remove their counters or anything

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:00:46 No.12448506 Report

Quoted By: >>12448523

>>12446080

Or an increase in the amount of health sacrificed, like 15% and have Magic Guard users take half damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:02:06 No.12448523 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448506
don't make magic bounce users take damage, it ruins the entire point of the ability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:02:24 No.12448526 Report

Quoted By: >>12448612

>>12448485
Nah man if a pokemon has a weakness to an attacking type it's completely unusable. You should know this already.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:08:41 No.12448604 Report

Quoted By: >>12448637 >>12448641 >>12448645 >>12448652 >>12448842

Why does the metagame only revolve around Steel, Fighting, and Dragon types?

Will this ever change?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:09:20 No.12448612 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448526
It's like when people keep going on about Shedinja and magic guard and shit.

learn to support your pokemon instead of making it perfect

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:10:17 No.12448628 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448485
You'd swap out to the counter and lose your boosts, and the very idea that you have so many counters in OU specifically means that you'd have to spend another turn trying to set up, opening you up to more of those counters switching in.

With so many counters in that tier, you would not be a strong force in the aforementioned tier whatsoever. Which is sort of the entire point of even analyzing Porygon-Z for OU.

You aren't even guaranteed an OHKO on a Garchomp.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:10:42 No.12448637 Report

Quoted By: >>12448721

>>12448604
FAIRY

If Fairy resists Fighting and is immune to Dragon we'll finally be free from their tyranny.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:11:12 No.12448641 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448604
>dragons are fuck off powerful
>steel is the only type that can stop dragons
>steel is weak to fighting, and fighting types are also extremely strong

it can only change with a second dragon resist, which also resists, or at least has no overlap with steel's weaknesses

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:11:58 No.12448645 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448604
Because the dragon types are too strong so people need to bring in their only resistance, steel type.
And then Steel types get too strong so people need a counter for that, so they have Fighting.

And fighting gets too strong, so Dragon remains a standing force there to hit the fighting types.

It'll change once there's something else that can resist Dragon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:12:30 No.12448652 Report

Quoted By: >>12448664

>>12448604
Yeah. Gen 6 will revolve around Fairy type and eliminating its few resists before sweeping. Fire defeats itself with Stealth Rocks while Psychics will be pursuited away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:13:52 No.12448664 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448652
Sure it will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:17:44 No.12448704 Report

Quoted By: >>12448711 >>12449183

Chandelure 252 EV's in SpA + Choice Specs + getting the flash fire + fire blast. hnnnnnnnnnnng

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:18:13 No.12448711 Report

Quoted By: >>12448727

>>12448704
>not adding sun
>not using overheat

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:18:58 No.12448721 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448637

and Water, don't forget about water.

Then it will be weak to ghost and poison, maybe steel but that may be too many weaknesses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:19:18 No.12448727 Report

Quoted By: >>12448742

>>12448711
I'm not a weather fag and I don't like overheat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:20:07 No.12448742 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448727
>I dont know how to play Pokemon

You should of just said that since its the same thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:23:47 No.12448793 Report

Quoted By: >>12448815

If you dont have atleast one of the following on your team then you dont know how to play Pokemon

>Outrage user
>Weather
>Prankster user
>Technician user
>Atleast two Pokemon with substitute

Am I cool now guys?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:25:01 No.12448815 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448793
no.

>>>/smogon OU rmt forum/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:26:42 No.12448833 Report

Quoted By: >>12448840 >>12449042

Why don't people use any of the cool new hold items like eject button and the electric battery?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:27:30 No.12448840 Report

Quoted By: >>12448904 >>12448914

>>12448833
They're just too himmicky and situational.

You're welcome to try them if you like, but they're usually simply inferior to slapping on a life orb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:27:42 No.12448842 Report

Quoted By: >>12448854 >>12448860 >>12448893

>>12448604
Don't forget Ground. Fucking ground. They have the best STAB in the game.

>durr hurr flying types
>rocks

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:28:38 No.12448854 Report

Quoted By: >>12448893

>>12448842
dragon is the best stab in the game. then fighting. then water, then ground

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:29:04 No.12448860 Report

Quoted By: >>12448893

>>12448842
The best stab in the game is Outrage followed by Close Combat

Earthquake is nowhere near the top since its s easy to avoid

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:31:26 No.12448893 Report

Quoted By: >>12448948

>>12448842
>>12448854
>>12448860
Flying is underrated as well. Most steels have a flying weak secondary type. And the only rock mon is TTar. There's a reason "press hurricane to win" was a legitimate strategy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:32:21 No.12448904 Report

Quoted By: >>12448962 >>12449042

>>12448840
Why does the metagame revolve around choice items and life orbs?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:33:18 No.12448914 Report

Quoted By: >>12448930

>>12448840
Life Orb is one of the worst items in the game though unless you have Sheer force or Magic Guard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:33:46 No.12448919 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444284
I use Honchkrow all the time he can fuck shit up

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1360455886865.gif, 210KiB, 280x199

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:34:26 No.12448930 Report

Quoted By: >>12448992

>>12448914
no it isn't retard. It's on most all out attackers

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:34:28 No.12448931 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444287
I love scarf Krokodile but he really can not compete in OU I tried it out and he gets fucked

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:35:30 No.12448948 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448893
This too, though Rotom is a nice emergency check to it.

if archeops didn't have defeatist Acro-ops would be a top tier threat

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:36:42 No.12448962 Report

Quoted By: >>12449014

>>12448904
choice scarf is the only item that boosts speed, band/specs provide huge boosts immediately, and life orb's benefits largely outweigh the cons

There's just little reason to use anything else

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:40:04 No.12448992 Report

Quoted By: >>12449024

>>12448930
It is easily exploited by defensive pokemon which just makes you die faster.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:41:37 No.12449014 Report

Quoted By: >>12449069

>>12448962
>Leftovers, White Herb, Lum Berry, Black Sludge, Toxic/Flame Orb, Damage reducing berries, Flying Gem

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO kingdra.jpg, 10KiB, 194x259

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:41:42 No.12449017 Report

Quoted By:

There are three I really like that can compete and I use in OU

Honchkrow

Honchkrow @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Roost
- Substitute

Fuckin Murders Anything

Arcanine

Arcanine @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- ExtremeSpeed
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Close Combat

Same as Honchkrow but great in the sun

Can use whatever the fire type HP regen move when on a sun team

Now we get to an interesting one

KINGDRA

I use two sets for the murder Sea Horse

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse

the other one is a rain sweeper, It is just the one on Smogon so if you want it go check it out

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:42:05 No.12449024 Report

Quoted By: >>12449073

>>12448992
Life orb is what allows most attackers to break through defensive pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:44:16 No.12449042 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447988
252 +1 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 0 HP/4 Def Omastar: 67.26% - 80.07% (2 hits to KO)

>>12448833
One time use items are terrible in the 6v6 format. You want an item that's reliable throughout the match.

>>12448904
Don't forget leftovers. One of the biggest shifts in mentality and playstyle from Gen 1 to Gen 2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:47:31 No.12449069 Report

Quoted By: >>12449112

>>12449014
If you had a pool of Choice items, LO, and Leftovers, you could outfit any Pokemon sufficiently.

White Herb is only useful for Shell Smash, Black Sludge is still Leftovers, Orbs for Guts only, niche berries for niche uses, and Acrobatics Fly Gem is used on a handful of Pokemon, but isn't used outside of that.

There are better items for certain builds, but Choice, LO, Leftovers provide the best 'coverage' out of the items.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:47:44 No.12449073 Report

Quoted By: >>12449117 >>12449139

>>12449024
Between hazards, subspamming life orb recoil, and sand, you will be taking huge amounts of damage. Choice items, Lum, or Leftovers is almost always better. I think Hydreigon is the only non sheerforce, magic guard, or regenerator pokemon I'd suggest giving it to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:50:31 No.12449096 Report

Quoted By:

>>12444444
> 4 in moonrunes is death

2spook

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:52:06 No.12449112 Report

Quoted By:

>>12449069
Expert Belt is pretty good too, but its main strength is that it doesn't show the opponent Life Orb recoil, or Leftovers recovery, so people will assume you're holding a choice item, and will switch stuff in thinking you're locked into an attack.

I don't really like using it unless I'm against people I know; since I won't know if they're good enough to actually check what items people are using.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:52:50 No.12449117 Report

Quoted By:

>>12449073
Yeah, life orb can be a liability against stall

Stall hardly exists in gen V

Its a great item, and is used on most wallbreakers, pokemon designed to tear down defensive cores.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 02:54:25 No.12449139 Report

Quoted By:

>>12449073
Most of the pokemon that use Life Orb are frail offensive pokemon anyways. They're the ones that need the damage boost to be able to OHKO shit, and need to be able to switch moves so they can get a sweep.

They don't care about recoil damage because they're already going to be dying in one strong hit.

Many sweepers need the damage boost it gives compared to Lum, or Lefties, and you can't use a boosting move with choice items.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 03:01:31 No.12449183 Report

Quoted By: >>12449446

>>12448704
>not using Flame Charge Chandelure
Works really well with Ferrothorn too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 03:36:46 No.12449446 Report

Quoted By: >>12449481

>>12449183
Why would you use a physical attack on a special sweeper?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 03:41:18 No.12449481 Report

Quoted By: >>12449492

>>12449446
Boost his speed for a sweep. I would switch out my Ferro out when I predicted a fire attack and use Flame Charge when my opponent switches or stays in (which usually doesn't mean much since they don't have anything to deal with it).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 03:42:58 No.12449492 Report

Quoted By: >>12449516

>>12449481
Why not use Fire blast or Overheat instead?

Do you now know the difference between physical and special attacks?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 03:46:10 No.12449516 Report

Quoted By: >>12449528

>>12449492
Do you not understand that Chandelure is slow so it gives him a better opportunity to sweep? Also
>implying he doesn't know Fire Blast, Energy Ball, and Shadow Ball too

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 03:47:39 No.12449528 Report

Quoted By: >>12449540

>>12449516
my bad

I didn't realize Flame Charge raises speed. Never used it before

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 03:50:00 No.12449540 Report

Quoted By:

>>12449528
Fair enough. I like the move but it can be hard to pull off without forcing switches. If he somehow gets Agility in Gen VI though, it would make my day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 03:56:01 No.12449592 Report

Quoted By: >>12449730 >>12449746 >>12450048

I love how smart sensible people realize Fairy type is necessary yet the dumb retards who oppose think GF has some pattern that they cannot change.

Any logical human-being can realize a new type would really help balance out the game

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:09:05 No.12449730 Report

Quoted By: >>12449832

>>12449592
You are so fucking stupid

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:10:56 No.12449746 Report

Quoted By: >>12449832

>>12449592
Fuck off, everyone with a brain knows gamefreak is not touching the type chart

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:20:03 No.12449832 Report

Quoted By: >>12449849 >>12449854

>>12449730
>>12449746
>Denialfags

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:21:25 No.12449841 Report

Quoted By: >>12449882

I really like Hitmonlee and Togekiss in OU. They give incredible results for me. Togekiss is kinda luck based but with a scarf it can pull off a sweep, cripple walls with Trick and when you're down, when it counts, if you're lucky it can even beat pokes with a better typing such as Rotom-W and Thundurus-T. Hitmonlee is a poke that does better in OU than on it's own tier. It dies hard to priority but thanks to team preview you can remove the few counters in your oponent's team and sweep it as a whole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:21:59 No.12449849 Report

Quoted By: >>12449955

>>12449832
>Regular faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:22:36 No.12449854 Report

Quoted By: >>12449955

>>12449832
>bandwagonfaggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:25:51 No.12449882 Report

Quoted By: >>12450059

>>12449841
Don't you dare convince more people to use Togekiss. I'll cry.

What set do you run in OU. I'm assuming not a reckless HJK since that would be too slow. Endure+Liechi Berry+Unburden+Reversal? Normal Gem+Fake Out+Unburden?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:33:49 No.12449955 Report

Quoted By:

>>12449854
>>12449849
Try harder

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:37:31 No.12449998 Report

Quoted By:

>>12448107
Despite what the rampant Dragon immunity wishers want, I doubt GF would seriously make a new type that's dragon immune.

If anything they'll probably just make it resistant to dragon and call it a day. It might slow down outrage spam a bit in the next meta.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:38:38 No.12450014 Report

Quoted By: >>12452488

I fucking hate stall. Fuck anyone that uses it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:41:22 No.12450040 Report

Quoted By:

Samurott's surprisingly decent in rain with Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Megahorn, and swords dance. Feraligatr's a touch better for the role but the difference is negligible enough that there's no real difference between the two beyond Feraligatr having more 3rd moveslot options.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:42:12 No.12450048 Report

Quoted By:

>>12449592
Gamefreak can just change up the resists on the existing type chart if they so desired it. Your precious Fairy type isn't going to have the resistances that you expect it to have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:43:31 No.12450059 Report

Quoted By: >>12450130

>>12449882
I run an Unburden set with Fake Out, Close Combat, Stone Miss and Substitute.

Substitute is kinda rare in Unburden set but it works like a charm when I don't still feel like getting the boost. Also, when I predict a Jellicent or Gengar switch in, it helps a lot, specially since Stone Edge hits them like a mother fucker, and it can help a lot against priority users such as Dragonite and Scizor.
It's kinda hard to pull off an Unburden boost AND a Substitute, but the few times it has happened, I win.

And about Togekiss, it's not that awful to battle against, but it's deffinitely OU material. Magnezone, Tyranitar, Rotom and specially Jirachi give it hell, and one Toxic or Scald burn will cripple it for the match, but Scarfkiss remains my main lead and one of my best (and most unreliable) sweepers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:49:44 No.12450130 Report

Quoted By: >>12450205

>>12450059
You could try dropping the Fake Out for something else, and running a berry if you're using Substitute, but Priority would be a big problem I guess.

I guess an Endure set would be pretty unreliable in OU when you have to deal with so much priority that a +1 Mach Punch wouldn't handle, and when Sand/Hail would kill you.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1351308499837.jpg, 15KiB, 274x297

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 04:58:41 No.12450188 Report

Quoted By: >>12450250 >>12450308

>Subpeteya Empoleon

Luckily, there's very few things that can stop this, and for some reason, nobody seems to stop it before it happens.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:00:52 No.12450205 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450130
The Hitmonlee set I use has been perfect so far, the only problem being shit like Espeed Dragonite and Scizor. Conckeldurr and Breloom are lesss of a problem in general for me. However, most smart players avoid sending Scizor and Dragonite against me until I'm using Hitmonlee, and when that happens I get fucked.

I've considered teaching Hitmonlee Mach Punch, but the power is too low, so most Scizor would need to be really damaged in order to beat them, and Dragonite doesn't even care about a +1 priority that's also not very effective.

Intimidate Landorus is an issue as well, because even if I use Substitute, the switch in is faster, and it can take up to three (and sometimes four) Stone Misses while easily OHKOing Hitmonlee, but without Intimidate it's much less of an issue, and Togekiss easily beats it down anyways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:07:39 No.12450250 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450188
Slow without Agility, lacking coverage with.
Solid set, though, otherwise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:08:49 No.12450258 Report

Quoted By: >>12450269 >>12450271 >>12450313

Whats the point of using agility?

I feel like its just a waste of a turn

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:10:08 No.12450269 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450258
It can allow a sweep if you use it in the right moment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:10:26 No.12450271 Report

Quoted By: >>12450285

>>12450258
Use it when your opponent switches out, then proceed to outspeed and KO everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:12:27 No.12450285 Report

Quoted By: >>12450311 >>12450316

>>12450271
>What is priority
>What is a wall

I dont see the point of waisting a turn to raise speed when you could be raising your attack instead

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:15:49 No.12450308 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450188
People dont run Roar/ww anymore for some reason even unless they are using skarmory and havew nothing better to use though its mainly for dealing with sub stallers it is still super fucking useful for any pokemon who you couldnt keep from setting up partially

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:16:13 No.12450311 Report

Quoted By: >>12450331

>>12450285

Well, depending on who you're using agility with, that wall can become meaningless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:16:48 No.12450313 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450258
A fast pokemon using Swords Dance has the power to push its way through the opposition after getting a boost.

In general a slow offensive pokemon doesn't have the same power as the pokemon who got a Swords Dance boost up, but will have more power than the fast pokemon does before it gets a boost, so there will be certain opposing pokemon that the slower pokemon could deal with better without a boost.

That slow pokemon after using Agility still doesn't have the pure power the Sword Dancer does, but it will now outspeed the Sword Dancer, and be able to take out frail pokemon that would normally outspeed it out in one hit because of its high base damage. It's also much bulkier than most sweepers, so you can potentially bring it in on hits to threaten something out that you wouldn't be able to do on a Sword Dancer without sacrificing something first.

Speed boosts aren't usually as game changing as offensive boosts, but they have their pros and cons. They also aren't as expected, so they can be easier to get them up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:17:46 No.12450316 Report

Quoted By: >>12450332

>>12450285
Yeah man fuck moves that don't do damage. I don't get why people bother with stupid moves like Will-o-Wisp

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:19:53 No.12450331 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450311
Don't forget how good double dance sets can be.

The choice of having Sword Dance to break through a wall, or Dragon Dance/Agility to be able to outspeed any would be revenge killers can be really powerful if you can give up the coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:20:14 No.12450332 Report

Quoted By: >>12450455

>>12450316
Will-o-Wisp halves damage retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:21:36 No.12450347 Report

Quoted By:

Something like Agility can also be useful on a mixed sweeper so that you can afford to place speed EVs into your secondary attack stat instead.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1357680701899.jpg, 50KiB, 275x283

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:29:34 No.12450412 Report

Quoted By: >>12450461 >>12450464

>run hyper aggressive team
>take out walls quickly
>every memeber on my team can setup and sweep incredibly easy

I fucking LOVE this shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:37:19 No.12450455 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450332
more like Will-o-Miss

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1365803879513.jpg, 67KiB, 407x482

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:38:03 No.12450461 Report

Quoted By: >>12450527 >>12451977

>>12450412
Until you encounter a gliscor and you cant do shit to it while it sits there using protect/sub with its fucking grin as you slowly toxic to death

>mfw I have beaten several retards who just use generic smogon setups and the top 6 pokemon in usage stats and just 1v6 essentially with gliscor and they get maximum butthurt

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:38:42 No.12450464 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450412
Same here except I throw an Espeon in there to setup some screens for better setups

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 05:50:34 No.12450527 Report

Quoted By: >>12450578

>>12450461
Anybody can just click sub/protect/toxic2win

Try using some real strategy instead of copy+pasting smog on tactics

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 06:01:54 No.12450578 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450527
Anybody can click Outrage and win as well. It's how you play around the threats that matters. If you play OU, and have nothing that can handle a Gliscor you're retarded. If you're against an opponent with a Gliscor, and you let your Gliscor counter die before doing its job you're retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 08:34:04 No.12451300 Report

Quoted By:

>>12447782
Frosslass is a nice set up/suicide lead, spikes and Dbond and a decent taunt. Works nice on ghost monosProblem, spinners?.
Not really BL material, though. It's got some tricks, but no real balk or power

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 13:12:56 No.12451977 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450461

>gengar is on my team
>laugh at him with my shit eating grin and shadow ball him and anything else to death

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 May 2013 14:41:32 No.12452488 Report

Quoted By:

>>12450014
>hyper offence baby getting frustrated by superior teambuilding skills

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