/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #12574263

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Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:20:11 No.12574263 View View Reply Original Report

Why is this stupid shit still legal?
There is something wrong when everyone that has 1900+ rank on Showdown uses Jirachi in Rain teams. This is not a fucking coincidence, and Jirachi needs to be fucking banned.
>Wish
>Protect
>Body Slam
>Iron Head
>252 Def/HP
>252 Attack
>Rain cuts attack of Fire-type moves by 50%
>Switch Heatran in only to get Body Slammed
>Flinched to death
>When move hits it loses less than 50% health
>PROTECT/WISH/PROTECT
>Leftovers

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:35:43 No.12574338 Report

Quoted By: >>12574349

>Flinch Heatran to death

Jirachi can't even offset Heatran's leftovers for damage. At worst it could PP stall itself to death.

Nobody worth their salt thinks Rachi should be banned anyways. I don't even know why I'm responding, I'm almost sure this is a copypasta from a thread from last week.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:37:36 No.12574349 Report

Quoted By: >>12574376 >>12574388

>>12574338
Not a copypasta, sir.
There is no strategy to Paraflinch and Jirachi just ruins the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:42:37 No.12574376 Report

Quoted By: >>12574385

>>12574349
>blood Togekiss
>no strategy
The set itself is the epitome of what a strategy should be. Ability to stay in, do damage, and cripple threats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:44:26 No.12574385 Report

Quoted By: >>12574392 >>12574412

>>12574376
But it cripples everything.
I bet you use it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:45:16 No.12574388 Report

Quoted By: >>12574400

>>12574349
If you're serious, I'll give you a serious response.

The reason why Jirachi still exists is that the one set that is uncompetitive (paraflinch) is completely offset by the fact that it by itself checks and counters entire portions of the offensive metagame that would otherwise run rampant without it. Jirachi is a paradox in that while it's notoriously unfun as it stands, it makes the metagame more competitive, more diverse, and less frustrating to play. The reason why it's on so many teams has nothing to do without how broken it is (hint: It's not even in the top 30 for OU Pokemon in terms of how close to broken they are), it's that it stops a shit ton of stuff from being broken, and banning it would cause twenty times as many problems as it fixes. It's the most reliable counter for stuff like Kyurem-B and Latios in the game, and is overall the best special attacker check in the game.

For every argument you can make against it for creating an uncompetitive environment, 10 examples could be brought up for how it stops the metagame from falling to shambles.

Hopefully this is a good enough explanation for you to get it now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:46:07 No.12574392 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574385
Bitches don't know bout my Sableye.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:47:06 No.12574400 Report

Quoted By: >>12574424

>>12574388
So you're stating that the balance of the metagame relies on a pathetic, broken excuse of a Pokemon?
Bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:49:25 No.12574412 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574385
I do. Togekiss is my favorite Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:53:22 No.12574424 Report

Quoted By: >>12574430 >>12574438

>>12574400
There are a number of Pokemon in the metagame that hold everything together. Jirachi is one of them. Others include the likes of Scizor, Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Heatran, Latias, and Celebi. These Pokemon aren't as good in themselves as a lot of other things in the metagame (ex Latios fundementally outclassing Latias), but they all have important attributes that prevent the OU metagame from being much worse than it currently is. Scizor has the greatest impact out of all of these, but Jirachi and Heatran are very close seconds. The listed Pokemon are all incredibly important for the Metagame, and are some of the last lines of defense in what is otherwise a complete sheer offense metagame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:55:15 No.12574430 Report

Quoted By: >>12574479

>>12574424
Except that all of the ones you listed can be countered easily unlike Jirachi.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:57:45 No.12574438 Report

Quoted By: >>12584238

>>12574424
>Scizor: fire/Sp.Atk moves
>Landorus-T: Ice Shard
>Rotom-W: not much of a threat
>Heatran: Earthquake/Scald/Surf
>Latias: Physical moves
>Celebi: too many weaknesses to list

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 06:58:14 No.12574441 Report

Quoted By: >>12574467

that set this easily walled, set up bait for spikers (ferro/skarm/forry), free switch in to threats like landorus, etc

make better teams OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:03:27 No.12574467 Report

Quoted By: >>12574495

>>12574441
Good luck walling with 40% chance or less of actually doing anything

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:03:47 No.12574470 Report

Quoted By:

If you don't like seeing a pokemon, try playing in a tier it doesn't inhabit. Haha, but then again, you'd just be trading a set of commonly used nuisances for a different set of commonly used nuisances.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:05:36 No.12574479 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574430
Take note that three of the mons that I mentioned: Scizor, Landorus-T, and Heatran, all counter Jirachi. It's not like those aren't the only 3 counters either. Gastrodon fears very little from Jirachi, and Hippowdon/Gliscor can take on the paraflinch set fine (especially with Poison Heal for Gliscor).

If you're looking for things with few counters, Jirachi is the last place you look. Landorus-I would be a better example of something that's not easily countered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:08:05 No.12574490 Report

Quoted By:

jirachi is one of my favorite pokemons competitively. Celebi too.
Them typing and diversity man. Really well designed too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:08:39 No.12574495 Report

Quoted By: >>12574750 >>12574786

>>12574467
resisting iron head is not hard to do

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:10:12 No.12574499 Report

Quoted By: >>12574508 >>12581456

The only issue I have is subcm rain jirachi..

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:12:03 No.12574508 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574499
Might I interest you in joining the sand master race?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:15:33 No.12574528 Report

Quoted By: >>12581456

Can we complain about kyurem-b?
nigga is potent

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:52:04 No.12574750 Report

Quoted By: >>12574766 >>12574791

>>12574495
60% chance of Flinch, on top of being paralyzed by Body Slam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:55:33 No.12574766 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574750
Doesn't matter when you're taking shit for damage and healing most of it back with Leftovers. Throw on Rocky Helmet instead and Jirachi will practically kill itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:57:22 No.12574778 Report

Quoted By: >>12574888 >>12574963 >>12581456

Everytime I think about getting into the competitive metagame shit, I usually see one of these threads, and I remember why I don't. Looks like more work than I'm willing to put in, and having to think about teams, IV's, natures, abilities, and moves is more than I can handle. But it looks like it could be a lot of fun....

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:58:38 No.12574786 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574495
especially if you're a feminist

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 07:59:13 No.12574791 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574750
what kind of idiot keeps their iron head jirachi in on a pokemon like heatran or jellicent?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 08:04:40 No.12574810 Report

Quoted By:

>using paraflinch instead of subcm

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 08:06:17 No.12574815 Report

Quoted By: >>12574892

I want to fuck Jirachi.
I think.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 08:21:17 No.12574888 Report

Quoted By: >>12574939 >>12574945

>>12574778
>Looks like more work than I'm willing to put in, and having to think about teams, IV's, natures, abilities, and moves is more than I can handle.
Yeah. From what I gather though, best players have more fun thinking about teams than actually playing. Most of the fun from playing the game is seeing if team you created works. At least for many of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 08:21:54 No.12574892 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574815
In that stomach eye while it cries, asking you to stop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 08:32:16 No.12574939 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574888
>From what I gather though, best players have more fun thinking about teams than actually playing. Most of the fun from playing the game is seeing if team you created works
When you put it like that, it makes it sound kinda inviting... Eh, what the hell, I'll give it a go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 08:33:27 No.12574945 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574888
That's what I like about it. I don't need to be the best, I just like seeing if some gimmicky shit works out. It's fun to theorycraft and test.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 08:40:04 No.12574963 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574778
generally, EVs and nature choices aren't very complicated. most of the time you're investing max EVs into 2 different stats to fill a certain role.

as for moves, that's probably the most daunting part, but that's where smogon is a huge help. they post the "best" sets and in the description still tell you viable alternatives

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 08:44:09 No.12574976 Report

Quoted By: >>12575061

The only thing that should be removed from the metagame is the freeze status.

>ruins matches
>10% chance of activating on almost every ice move
>0-8 or something turns of immobility
>decent chance of defrosting meaning that you can risk staying in but at the same time you can also stay frozen forever
>no way to cure aside from Heal Bell or Aromatherapy

Also I get frozen by every Ice Beam that hits me. What am I doing wrong ;_;

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1346116413892.jpg, 9KiB, 251x189

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 08:58:11 No.12575050 Report

Quoted By:

Jewrachi?

Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of my Crobat annoying it to death.

>Confuse Ray
>Thief
>Air Slash
>Taunt

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:00:55 No.12575061 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574976
Use more lum berries.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:06:54 No.12575084 Report

Quoted By: >>12575098

>>12574263
If you think that's annoying then wait untill Dunsparce gets an evo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:09:42 No.12575098 Report

Quoted By: >>12575111

>>12575084
>Vacuum Wave
>Hipstersparce fainted

top lel

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:15:16 No.12575111 Report

Quoted By: >>12575123 >>12575249

>>12575098
>VacuumWave
>Not Mach Punch

Seriously now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:17:32 No.12575123 Report

Quoted By:

>>12575111
>Implying you'd even need a Mach Punch user for this situation

Yeah seriously.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:24:53 No.12575168 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574263
Are you serious? It's called Earthquake, mate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:46:50 No.12575249 Report

Quoted By: >>12575253 >>12575268 >>12575274

>>12575111
Dunsparce's Sp. Def is lower than its Def so Vacuum Wave would actually be more effective.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:47:50 No.12575253 Report

Quoted By:

>>12575249

But it really depends on what's hitting it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:55:16 No.12575268 Report

Quoted By:

>>12575249
There are barely any fighting types that could actually use vacuum wave to some extent, though. Lucario and Infernape are the only ones I can think of and they usually run other moves and can't KO Dunsparce in one hit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:57:24 No.12575274 Report

Quoted By: >>12575275

>>12575249
The difference is only what, 5 base points? Even if that were an issue, the premier Mach Punch user, Conkeldurr, hits Dunsparce harder than any Vacuum Wave user right out of the gate, and even out-damages those with Nasty Plot after Guts and a single Bulk Up (one turn of set-up max).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 09:59:00 No.12575275 Report

Quoted By:

>>12575274
Not to mention Breloom, who shares Scizor's niche with a Technician-boosted Mach Punch, and can even just shut Dunsparce down outright with Spore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 10:05:58 No.12575292 Report

Quoted By: >>12575301

mfw Golurk is best Jirachi counter

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO nope.jpg, 93KiB, 808x989

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 10:08:26 No.12575301 Report

Quoted By:

>>12575292
>doesn't resist iron head

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 10:08:31 No.12575303 Report

Quoted By: >>12581456

Is it even possible to get to the top of the ladder if you didn't play right after the reset? I get almost no points for my wins.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 13:43:50 No.12576117 Report

Quoted By: >>12576128 >>12578778

Jirachi with king's rock
252atk 4spatk 252spe hasty nature
Water pulse
Body slam
Iron head
Wish

Because fuck you

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 13:47:20 No.12576128 Report

Quoted By: >>12578571

>>12576117
Why speed if you are para anyway?
Investing in defenses and hp would be better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 17:54:24 No.12578571 Report

Quoted By:

>>12576128
Probably to outspeed certain defensive targets in a pinch

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g Fri 07 Jun 2013 18:03:32 No.12578653 Report

Quoted By: >>12578658

Swap to Gengar predicting body slam; use Will-o-wisp.

Physical Jirachi problem solved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 18:04:27 No.12578658 Report

Quoted By: >>12578730 >>12578738

>>12578653
>switch to gengar expecting body slam
>thunder waved

captcha: testifying anusPla

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 18:11:07 No.12578730 Report

Quoted By:

>>12578658
>body slam can be countered by ghosts
>thunder wave by ground types
What's the problem here?

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g Fri 07 Jun 2013 18:11:59 No.12578738 Report

Quoted By:

>>12578658

Funny thing that is...

I typically give my Gengars lum berries as a common practice I started during gen 3 with netbattle. I don't know why, but I thought it would be cool if I had my item base being a bit more diverse than just leftovers if I couldn't find something specific for it. My reasoning was that he isn't likely to take many hits, so leftovers wouldn't be as useful on him. Instead, the lum berry would help with annoying bouts of paralysis and confusion that people liked to throw at me.

I've continued using this item combination to this day because it actually gives me a nice switch in. If I can predict an opponent is going to spam Twave or Confuse Ray or something retarded, I switch to Gengar, make them waste a move, haze away any buffs they have built up, then harass the shit out of them.

Of course even without a dedicated lum berry holder, you can always switch into a cleric and say fuck you heal bell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 18:14:58 No.12578771 Report

Quoted By:

Ground-types, Fire-types, Lum Berries, and pretty much anything that can resist Iron Head can beat Jirachi. Unless you're stupid and try to do something like contest Sdefensive Jirachi with a special attacker, it isn't that unlikely for the right Pokemon to get in enough attacks to kill it, since you can get like 8-12 chances if Jirachi doesn't switch out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 18:15:34 No.12578778 Report

Quoted By: >>12578795 >>12579496

>>12576117

>Kings Rock

That doesnt stack with flinch moves. It just adds 5% flinch to moves that dont have it

Leftovers, Hasty/Naive
Max HP, Max S.Atk
Iron head
Thunder (para is 60% under SG and always hits in rain)
Water Pulse (gets pseudo-stab in rain)
Filler (Id go with sub or CM)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 18:18:34 No.12578795 Report

Quoted By:

>>12578778
>Maxing offenses at all
You max HP and defenses so you can last longer if your Flinch/Para/Confusion fails.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 18:48:37 No.12579092 Report

Quoted By: >>12581356

just switch in an already toxiced gliscor and scare it out with an EQ.
Just switch in Ferrothorn and watch it get damage from hitting you. Just switch in any ground type if it carries the twave.
Just stop whining and think about how to deal with the main threats in the metagame yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 19:17:19 No.12579496 Report

Quoted By:

>>12578778
Actually it does, just not the same way. And its 10% for the other moves and stacks with serene grace

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 21:17:18 No.12581356 Report

Quoted By: >>12581450 >>12581456

>>12579092
Nope. Jirachi can beat both Gliscor and Ferrothorn, it has too many sets. SubProtect Leftovers Paraflinch, SubCM, Scarf...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 21:26:31 No.12581450 Report

Quoted By:

>>12581356
Jirachi can't use sub protect, and we're talking specifically about the paraflinch set

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Jun 2013 21:27:05 No.12581456 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574499
Just get a Gastrodon.

>>12574528
It is, but so is the rest of OU. It takes better advantage of 'empty' turns if its setting up and is just a powerful threat when straight up attacking.
But that's nothing new for Pokemon in OU, is it?

>>12574778
Nothing tests your knowledge and ability to play than to build teams that succeed against other players.

>>12575303
It harder, but yes. Most top ladder players playtest their teams on dummy accounts before playing straight up on their mains, so they effectively keep only their 'wins.'

>>12581356
Each set has its own weaknesses. SubCM and Scarf don't run Wish, greatly reducing its longevity. SubCM can't flinch, which seems to be the biggest complaint for the OP, etc etc.
Yes, facing a Jirachi before knowing its set is tough, but that applies to Pokemon in general.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Jun 2013 01:01:11 No.12584238 Report

Quoted By:

>>12574438
What are you trying to prove?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Jun 2013 01:03:17 No.12584270 Report

Quoted By:

Jirachi is not broken, and you seriously have a problem with, you are a shitty player

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