/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #12952843

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Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 20:35:14 No.12952843 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>12952881 >>12953705 >>12953824 >>12954128 >>12954295

So how does Normal/Fire and Normal/Electric work? Can't they just be pure Fire and Electric?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 20:38:02 No.12952881 Report

Quoted By: >>12952912

>>12952843
>dual normal types have existed since gen 1
>people are only starting to question them now

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 20:40:44 No.12952912 Report

Quoted By:

>>12952881

Yeah, but Normal/Flying made a bit more sense since the early encounter birds pretty much are normal birds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 20:43:38 No.12952950 Report

Quoted By: >>12953351 >>12953437

How come no one questioned girafarig or deerling?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:22:28 No.12953351 Report

Quoted By: >>12953411 >>12953692

>>12952950
Those were questioned.
The issue is a dual normal type is fine, it makes sense in most cases. But for some types, such as fire or electric, or others such as ghost or dragon, it doesn't really make sense. The fact that something can breathe fire means it's not normal, right? What separates Litleo enough from Arcanine to get a normal typing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:23:09 No.12953356 Report

Quoted By: >>12953391 >>12953431

Normal is a placeholder for a new type they'll receive upon evolution but are not fit to have in their current form

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:27:30 No.12953391 Report

Quoted By: >>12953404

>>12953356
>Girafarig
>Sawsbuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:28:33 No.12953404 Report

Quoted By: >>12953446

>>12953391
These new pokemon have a normal subtype, not normal and another subtype. It could be that way for a reason

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:28:57 No.12953411 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953351

Right exactly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:30:16 No.12953431 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953356
Makes no sense since pokemon can flat out gain a new type without the need of a placeholder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:31:01 No.12953437 Report

Quoted By:

>>12952950

Girafarig have a normal head and a Psychic butt, or was it the other way around? Either way, one side was normal, other was not.

Deerling, I see as a normal Pokemon with plants growing off of it. It's doesn't look like a anthropomorphized plant or like it's filled with chlorophyll.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:31:32 No.12953446 Report

Quoted By: >>12953456

>>12953404
Does the order even mean anything?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:32:51 No.12953456 Report

Quoted By: >>12953521 >>12953692

>>12953446

It does design-wise. A Pokemon that's Water/Ground will look primarily like a water type, while a Ground/Water would look more mudlike, I think.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:38:39 No.12953521 Report

Quoted By: >>12953530 >>12953568

>>12953456
Not even remotely true. The order serves absolutely no purpose.

For instance, altaria is dragon then flying. Would you say it's more of a dragon than say hydreigon who is dark then dragon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:39:21 No.12953530 Report

Quoted By: >>12953692

>>12953521
Or noivern and altaria.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:42:47 No.12953561 Report

Quoted By:

it gives ghost immunity at the cost of fighting weakness. It has its use but less than before now that ghosts aren't the rape machine they used to be

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:43:24 No.12953568 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953521
it has been confirmed to be so, but I dont have a link or anything. But that is why they do it that way

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:43:42 No.12953575 Report

Quoted By: >>12953669

A normal type pokemon means exactly that, that it is normal to see those pokemon around, Helioptile and Litleo are commonly seen pokemon around the region similar to Bibarel, Rattata, or Buneary..

The exceptions are when it's used for pokemon that don't really fit any type, like Miltank, Jigglypuff, Regigigas. This will be lessened somewhat with the new Fairy type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:51:18 No.12953669 Report

Quoted By: >>12953685

>>12953575
>that it is normal to see those pokemon around,
by that logic geodude should be normal rock, zubat normal flying, and so on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:52:28 No.12953682 Report

Quoted By:

You'll get your stab Tackle and like it!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:52:39 No.12953685 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953669

Geodude and zubat are found only in caves, that's not normal for regular people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:53:03 No.12953692 Report

Quoted By: >>12953754 >>12953765 >>12953799 >>12954503 >>12954521

>>12953530
Altaria is a Dragon that can Fly.
Hydreigon is a Dark being with dragon characteristics.

>>12953530
Noivern is not a true Dragon. He's based on a wyvern, so is a flying creature before he is a dragon.

The order does mean anything, but only design/rp-wise. What anon >>12953456 said is true. If a pokemon is Ground/Water, he is a creature of ground with water characteristics.

Good example is Celebi and Exeggutor. Exeggutor is Grass/Psychic because it's a plant with psychic powers. Celebi is a psychic creature kinda plant related.

>>12953351
The difference is very subtle, but important.

A fire pure pokemon is like a dragon who is magical and is immune to fire, can breathe fire, and it's a fire being itself. Like it is some kind of elemental of fire.

A fire/normal is a pokemon that is kinda made of fire but still a animal in some way. Arcanine could be Fire/Normal if wasn't gen I.

A normal/fire is a normal animal with fire related abilities. Like a creature with some kind of gas into its stomach that reacts with H2O and burst into flame when spill out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:53:46 No.12953705 Report

Quoted By: >>12953759

>>12952843

the only thing that bothers me is that it gives it a fighting weakness with the only positive thing being normal stab, not worth it In my opinion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:57:17 No.12953754 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953692
>a dark being with dragon characteristics
>a dragon hat flies

0/10

Anything to fit those parameters even at the risk of sounding retarded.

How about Altaria not resembling a dragon whatsoever? Or that it has literal clouds in its design hat very clearly allude to flying. By your logic, flying should have been he primary type.

Also, noivern being a dragon like creature but altaria being a dragon is the toppest of lels.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:57:34 No.12953759 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953705
Ghost immunity is decent, and STAB Return never hurts. Fighting weakness is a burden though, but I think at least one of them is going to drop the Normal typing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 21:57:54 No.12953765 Report

Quoted By: >>12953837 >>12953844

>>12953692
>Arcanine could have been normal/fire I it wasn't in gen 1

Are you implying normal wasn't a type in gen 1? Or maybe that they didn't have dual normal types in gen 1? Because they had both.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:00:11 No.12953799 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953692
I'm not sure about this. Talonflame appears to be a bird much more than it appears related to fire, and its Fire/Flying. Most flying types don't really obey that logic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:01:21 No.12953824 Report

Quoted By: >>12953885 >>12953949 >>12954165

>>12952843

Normal pokemon are basically real-life animals that use 'normal' attacks. The moveset of a pokemon determines its typing.

Imagine you were transforming a lion into a pokemon. It's just a regular lion. It can scratch things with its claws, roar and howl, headbutt and tackle opponents. Most of the moves it uses are Normal-type attacks.

Take Litleo. It's Normal/Fire. Its moveset is (presumably) predominantly made up of Normal-type attacks. It can also use Fire-type moves though, so its secondary type is Fire. Normal/Fire.

Compare this to a pokemon like Growlithe. You say "It's just a dog!". But it's not. Its primary attacking power drives from fire-based moves. Ember, Flame Wheel, Fire Fang. When it fights, it uses Fire. And THAT'S what makes it a Fire-type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:02:19 No.12953837 Report

Quoted By: >>12953916

>>12953765
His argument makes no sense. What is he even saying? That all fire types, unless they're literal fire, should be retyped to normal to fit his explanation? Because fire types are animals with fire characteristics. You got the likes of chandelure and rotom as the only true fire types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:02:30 No.12953844 Report

Quoted By: >>12953882

>>12953765
They haven't thinked about it in gen 1, simple as that.

And by the huge number of normal types in gen1, we can assume that normal used to be what it says on the tin. As we can see by Regigigas, is not anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:06:00 No.12953882 Report

Quoted By: >>12953928

>>12953844
>haven't thinked

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:06:06 No.12953885 Report

Quoted By: >>12954043

>>12953824
What about the fact that most pokemon use attacks with types of which they are no related?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:06:27 No.12953891 Report

Quoted By:

Helioptile sort of makes sense because it needs the sun to make electricity. If there were no sun it would just be a normal lizard. Litleo though, yeah I don't really understand. Seems like they arbitrarily chose it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:08:16 No.12953916 Report

Quoted By: >>12954083

>>12953837
Charmander line has a tail in fire.
Rapidash line is on fire.
Magmar can swim in lava.
Moltres is on fire.
Quilava line is on fire.
Slugma is lava.
Chimchar line aslo is on fire.
Camerupt line has a vulcan on its back.
Emboar line is on fire.
Heatran is made of lava.

Face it. Most fire pokemon are made of fire. But that was not what I meant.

I mean, it's like pikachu. It IS eletricity, he is a synonym to it and almost breathe it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:09:50 No.12953928 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953882
I always make this mistake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:11:51 No.12953949 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953824
>type is defined by move set
>what is Pinsir?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:18:51 No.12954043 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953885

Well a lot of pokemon have a mixture of move types, but I would imagine that a typing like Normal/Fire would be used because Litleo uses a lot of Normal-type attacks, and STAB Normal would make him more powerful.

When they create a pokemon, they have to take everything into account - movesets must reflect the vision they hoped for, but must also make logical sense. For example, a lion pokemon would probably learn Bite, because lions bite their prey. Sure, it's Dark-type, but it still makes sense because it's based on a lion.

It's like Surskit to Masquerain. It's based on damselflies that lay eggs in aquatic areas and then those eggs hatch and go on to become adult damselflies. Bug/Water to Bug/Flying makes logical sense, despite the appeal of a Bug/Water final evo.

So to sum up: Some pokemon learn non-STAB moves because sometimes those moves suit a pokemon (and the real-life animal inspiration).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:22:37 No.12954083 Report

Quoted By: >>12954150

>>12953916
Unfortunately for you, if you test a theory 100 times and only 99 times are successful, the theory is proven false. These are the basics of scientific deduction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:27:11 No.12954128 Report

Quoted By: >>12954154

>>12952843
helioptile i can't explain, but litleo i can.

he's part normal type because his design is supposed to somewhat resemble a human if he is in fact a manticore.They are lions with a scorpion tail and a mans face. He doesn't have that dopey looking face for no reason. He will either evolve and stay a fire/normal type that knows a bunch of poison moves, or become a fire/poison type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:29:44 No.12954150 Report

Quoted By: >>12954206 >>12954306

>>12954083
But this is not science, this is Pokemon. Is humancraft, there are room for mistakes and inconsistences.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:30:22 No.12954154 Report

Quoted By: >>12954171

>>12954128
And yeah i know there's machoke and mr.mime and other humanoid looking pokemon, but part of litleos design is being somewhat human, and being human is about as normal as you can get in pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:32:22 No.12954165 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953824
I don't think moveset defines typing, I think design and theme does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:32:51 No.12954171 Report

Quoted By: >>12954181 >>12954189

>>12954154
Cause Porygon/2/Z is clearly human-like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:34:24 No.12954181 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954171
Well it's something humans designed. And part of porygons shtick is being a normal based special sweeper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:35:45 No.12954189 Report

Quoted By: >>12954443

>>12954171
Again, I didn't say every pokemon that is normal represents humans, or that ever humanoid pokemon is a normal type. I really don't want to play this back and forth of you blurting out a normal type pokemon that isn't human and me explaining why that doesn't matter. I'm saying this is part of litleos gimmick of being a manticore, which is why he is fire/normal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:38:34 No.12954206 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954150
>but I'm not using intelligent reasoning and deduction through evidence, I'm just making shit up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:47:08 No.12954295 Report

Quoted By: >>12954370

>>12952843
>So how does Normal/Fire and Normal/Electric work? Can't they just be pure Fire and Electric?

Because of new type combinations. That's why. Why have Girafarig being Normal/Psychic when it can just be Psychic? Why have Bibarel be Normal/Water when it can just be water? Why have any Normal/Flying Pokemon be such when it can just be a pure Flying-type?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:47:45 No.12954306 Report

Quoted By: >>12954388

>>12954150
I was talking about your reasoning, not the Pokemon world.
If Gamefreak stated in canon what typings meant and you theory was correct, then sure, you could say "it's just pokemon, I ain't gotta explain shit" but until then, a theory should have support just like any other theory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:52:22 No.12954367 Report

Quoted By:

I want to say that normal type is just pokemon/moves that are possible in the real world, but then there's Hyper Beam...
I'd also like to assume Litleo is a baby pokemon, so a Pokemon that can't use fire moves, but is still hurt by water, but tht would make too much sense so I can't believe Gamefreak will do it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:52:28 No.12954370 Report

Quoted By: >>12954401 >>12954402

>>12954295
I'd prefer all of those to be mono types except Girafarig.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:53:32 No.12954388 Report

Quoted By: >>12954556

>>12954306
It's not a theory, it's just my opinion on the matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:54:11 No.12954401 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954370
Why Girafarig? Because of the extra head?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:54:16 No.12954402 Report

Quoted By: >>12954472

>>12954370
opinions dont count as arguments, anon. i'd prefer all of them to keep their current typings as it adds flavor to their design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 22:58:00 No.12954443 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954189
Relax, was just messing with you

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:00:30 No.12954472 Report

Quoted By: >>12954516 >>12954553

>>12954402
How does adding Normal to anything add flavor to it? I mean sure, technically they're different than a monotype but they certainly aren't any more interesting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:02:58 No.12954503 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953692
>Hydreigon is a Dark being with dragon characteristics.
Oh, eat shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:03:46 No.12954516 Report

Quoted By: >>12954571

>>12954472
it gives them a new stab and a handy immunity. sure they pick up a weakness to fighting types, but at least it's something different. it's just sad you'd want ANOTHER plain normal type or ANOTHER plain water type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:03:56 No.12954521 Report

Quoted By:

>>12953692
>Like a creature with some kind of gas into its stomach that reacts with H2O and burst into flame when spill out.
I think all the grasping for straws broke him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:05:53 No.12954553 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954472
I guess it's like adding water to soup?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:06:00 No.12954556 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954388
It IS a theory, you fuckass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:07:07 No.12954571 Report

Quoted By: >>12954594 >>12954798

>>12954516
I don't see how a plain anything is worse than pointlessly making something immune to ghost and giving tackle stab damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:09:05 No.12954594 Report

Quoted By: >>12954645

>>12954571
Double edge getting stab damage, or return even is nothing to shake a stick at. Body Slam is especially a good move. You don't really think tackle is the only normal move, do you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:10:24 No.12954608 Report

Quoted By:

I don't know what everyone is complaining about. Chances are, its final evolution will be a fast, high attack lion fucker with dual-stab Double Edge and Flare Blitz.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:14:32 No.12954645 Report

Quoted By: >>12954671

>>12954594
I said Tackle to make fun of you and make your argument look stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:17:09 No.12954671 Report

Quoted By: >>12954685

>>12954645
Wow, so you just have no real argument is what you're telling me? Is that right? Well you sure made me look stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:18:20 No.12954685 Report

Quoted By: >>12954716

>>12954671
I don't see how you got me having no argument from me being condescending to you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:21:25 No.12954716 Report

Quoted By: >>12954741 >>12954798 >>12955038 >>12955113

>>12954685
It's called ad hominem. Instead of providing any sort of argument with back bone, you just try to make me look stupid and go after me personally. It just shows what a lack of character you have and your lack of maturity, and you're probably just upset because you know I'm right and you keep digging yourself a deeper and deeper pit of stupidity the more you post.

You probably have a hard time dealing with peers and others because you're just that unlikable, it's not a surprise really because I've only had to deal with you for about 5-10 minutes and I can tell how you have a superiority complex that makes Adolf Hitler look like a self conscious loser.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:23:46 No.12954741 Report

Quoted By: >>12954754

>>12954716
Nigga, you mad

You're right but damn you're mad

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:24:49 No.12954754 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954741
I'm not mad, I'm eating a snickers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:28:53 No.12954798 Report

Quoted By: >>12954839 >>12954857 >>12954910 >>12955079 >>12955334

>>12954716
I know what ad hominem is. If you did, you would realize that I didn't actually do it. If I had attacked your character or called you stupid and tried to say you're wrong because of it, THAT would be ad hominem. I didn't do any of that in >>12954571.
The reason I'm not really making any sort of argument and just making fun of you instead is because I don't really give enough of a shit about an debate on the internet of whether giving normal typed moves stab damage is worth it.
Your attempt to "read" me was cute, by the way. I thought I was wasting my time, but it always brightens my day to see someone fail horribly at trying to use psychology.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:32:40 No.12954839 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954798
This nigga so mad

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:33:53 No.12954857 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954798
But you care enough to keep this retarded quarrel about nothing going. That says a lot about you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:39:35 No.12954910 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954798
Holy shit

I'm not apart of this but you come across like a massive cunt

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:51:13 No.12955038 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954716
>it's called as hominem
>It just shows what a lack of character you have and your lack of maturity, and you're probably just upset because you know I'm right and you keep digging yourself a deeper and deeper pit of stupidity the more you post.
I'm kind of on your side in this but come on, you make yourself look stupid too.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:54:17 No.12955079 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954798
Someone just got a nerve picked on~

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 10 Jul 2013 23:56:58 No.12955113 Report

Quoted By:

>>12954716
>it's called as hominem
>literally every word following that is you using ad hominem back
Kill yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 11 Jul 2013 00:13:47 No.12955334 Report

Quoted By: >>12955462

>>12954798
The only problem is, you're wrong and you know it. Like he said, body slam, return, double edge, hyper beam, and much, MUCH more gives enough of a good reason for certain Pokemon to have normal STAB. All you're doing is changing the subject so you don't have to admit that you're wrong.
Oh yeah, I forgot. I'm actually replying to myself just in case you didn't quite realize how little the debate over normal type stab being worth it matters, especially to me. If I was upset that you were right, I would have continued trying to argue my point. The problem is, I just don't care.
The other reason why I act like such a detestable cunt sometimes (and why it's stupid to try to analyze someone and diagnose them with a superiority complex on 4chan) is because I also don't care about my image here because it's wiped clean the second I hit submit. You probably would have been all friendly with this post had I not pointed out that I'm the same person.
The moral of the story is: care less.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 11 Jul 2013 00:26:06 No.12955462 Report

Quoted By:

>>12955334
>post a couple paragraphs with spoilers over an hour later
>to tell someone else to stop caring so much

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