/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #13103851

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Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:09:43 No.13103851 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13103885 >>13103889 >>13103901 >>13103905 >>13104243 >>13104416

Ladies and gentlemen, how do we fix the metagame?

>All weather-inducing abilities now act as their move-counterparts; lasting only a few turns

>More distribution of hazard removing moves

>Abilities that remove a layer of hazards upon entry

>Substitute won't block status but blocks whirlwind/roar

Any hypotheticals welcome.

>inb4 OP is a faggot

We need

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:10:13 No.13103859 Report

Quoted By:

Wow all of those suggestions are shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:12:13 No.13103885 Report

Quoted By:

>>13103851
OP is still a faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:12:26 No.13103889 Report

Quoted By:

>>13103851
OP is a faggot. But no seriously, the only good one is the ability to remove hazards upon entry

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:13:18 No.13103901 Report

Quoted By: >>13103927

>>13103851
Agreed with all but the substitute one.
And we need a movie or two that goes through substitute.
Also fuck entry hazards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:13:28 No.13103905 Report

Quoted By: >>13103925

>>13103851
The metagame honestly doesn't need fixing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:14:32 No.13103915 Report

Quoted By:

>All weather-inducing abilities now act as their move-counterparts; lasting only a few turns
Wow you've skilled rain and sand stall completey, limiting weather only to offensive teams making the meta MORE bland and repetitive

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:15:17 No.13103925 Report

Quoted By:

>>13103905
/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:15:49 No.13103927 Report

Quoted By:

>>13103901

Infiltrator should go through subs

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:26:57 No.13104047 Report

Quoted By:

1) Remove ALL gen 5 pokemon, moves, abilities, mechanics changes, and gen 5 tiering decisions, except the explosion nerf.
2) Unban Latias.

There. Done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:28:36 No.13104065 Report

Quoted By: >>13104081

Abilities that remove entry hazards

Moves that remove entry hazards as a secondary effect (surf, quake, whatever)

Entry hazards that do type damage besides rock

More weather effects like nighttime

Fairy type needs to get hit SE by poison, do NVE damage to Ice. Water needs to do NVE damage to Ice.

That's on GameFreak's end. On OUR end, as players:

Switch to doubles or rotation as the primary meta format, they're just more balanced.

Incorporate Wonder Launcher into the meta (it helps balance the game by enabling sweep setups OR stalls if you can play defensively for a while rather than just bumrushing everything as fast as possible)

FUCKING ITEM CLAUSE. God damn nothing demands flexibility in team design like limiting you to ONE leftovers, ONE Life Orb, etc.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1367805730058.gif, 2MiB, 336x252

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:30:32 No.13104081 Report

Quoted By: >>13104119

>>13104065
>item clause
>wonder launcher

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 3I6O1.png, 15KiB, 504x130

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:34:36 No.13104115 Report

Quoted By: >>13104142

http://pastebin.com/Mi5rKGHu
Here's a bunch of stupid shit you can feel free to laugh at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:34:49 No.13104119 Report

Quoted By: >>13104148

>>13104081
Smogon would like Wonder Launcher if it gave it a chance, only because you no longer find good mons crippled by an inability to set up effectively.

A lot of the most broken elements of the meta are just pokemon who can get stat boosts too easily (see: Moxie) and WL does mitigate that by making a set-up easier to achieve with a wide range of mons. Especially mons who suffer from four moveslot syndrome or struggle choosing between a choice boost and the need for a setup move to be effective.

But even if that's a somewhat iffy idea, Item Clause is a fucking obvious one. VGC is playing item clause doubles and has been for a while, it's the format GameFreak is catering to in its design and the reason the same four items are on everything is because those items aren't really meant to be used multiple times on one team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:37:24 No.13104142 Report

Quoted By: >>13104152

>>13104115
Please tell me that made it as one of the new banners

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:37:43 No.13104148 Report

Quoted By: >>13104187

>>13104119
Item clause simply doesn't work for singles though, the battles are too long and there aren't enough items that provide the consistency needed for those longer battles.

There is no reason to run anything besides leftovers on a wall, with the rare exception of rocky helmet or eviolite. adding item clause to singles is actually limiting teambuilding because you severely nerf defensive teams/cores.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:38:28 No.13104152 Report

Quoted By:

>>13104142
Sorry to disappoint you, but no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:43:08 No.13104187 Report

Quoted By: >>13104209

>>13104148
Well, toxic orb makes sense on a wall if it's Gliscor, but yes, that's true.

The game does give you a slightly better selection of offensive items than defensive ones.

OTOH Leftovers / Life Orb / Leftovers / Life Orb / Leftovers / Life Orb is still fucking tedious.

At least forcing a mix-up on the items will help to mitigate that.

Though you're right, the game moves too slowly to really make most items worthwhile in 6v6 singles, which is part of the reason it's a terrible meta. People actually use berries and gems in VGC doubles, because a one-off use isn't completely worthless in a metagame that lasts about 8 turns per side per match.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:46:00 No.13104209 Report

Quoted By: >>13104251

>>13104187
>At least forcing a mix-up on the items will help to mitigate that
There's no real problem with a small item pool though, expanding it doesn't improve teambuidling diversity or expands the possibilities, in fact it limits them by forcing one use items into a metagame where they don't belong.

I don't think 6v6 singles is a bad meta, it's my downright favourite metagame. It's just silly trying to make it more like VGC when VGC already exists and caters to people with a distaste for singles 6v6

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:51:07 No.13104243 Report

Quoted By:

>>13103851
>>All weather-inducing abilities now act as their move-counterparts; lasting only a few turns
Could work.

>>More distribution of hazard removing moves
This is vague. You should provide examples.

>>Abilities that remove a layer of hazards upon entry
Same as above.

>>Substitute won't block status but blocks whirlwind/roar
No.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:52:12 No.13104251 Report

Quoted By: >>13104267

>>13104209
6v6 singles is objectively a pretty bad meta though, it's centralized as all fuck.

Like I admire the steps Smogon has taken to try to make it balanced and playable for a wide variety of mons but the reality is all of those steps being necessary just demonstrates how fucked the meta really is.

The problem with the VGC meta is comparatively few people are playing it so it isn't seeing the diversity of analysis that the 6v6 singles one is seeing. There's a network effect problem where even though singles is objectively much harder to balance, nobody wants to take the plunge into doubles because the scene is built around singles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:54:37 No.13104267 Report

Quoted By: >>13104292

>>13104251
>it's centralized as all fuck.
Not necessarily a bad thing, a decent amount of people like the tight knit standardized meta smogon has created. I much prefer it to VGC, where stall isn't even possible. VGC just feels too fast and isn't that fun

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 22:58:52 No.13104292 Report

Quoted By:

>>13104267
Well part of the reason stall isn't possible in VGC is that 4v4 discourages long matches, which is part of the point. Stall's also much less viable in 3v3 singles.

I don't think stall is as unviable in Smogon Doubles (which is 6v6 rather than 4v4)... But of course nobody's really playing Smogon Doubles, least of all stall players, so its viability is hardly something that can be commented on with any certainty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jul 2013 23:13:12 No.13104416 Report

Quoted By:

>>13103851
>Ladies and gentlemen, how do we fix the metagame?
Get good.

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