/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #13133888

By that logic, Keen Eye Skarmory should be UU. Smogon doesn't like complex bans, and something like that would open the floodgates to those kind of bans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:10:44 No.13133911 Report

Quoted By: >>13133941

>>13133888
>following smogon rules
It's like you hate fun.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:10:51 No.13133913 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:11:06 No.13133914 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133908
Bro. You can't use drizzle and swift swim on the same team. That's a complex ban. The floodgates are already open

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:11:31 No.13133915 Report

Quoted By: >>13133918 >>13133932 >>13133943 >>13134071

>>13133888
On that note why the fuck is Swift Swim x Drizzle ban but Sun x Chloropyll isnt. It the same shit, they should just unban it to make it water types more unsable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:11:38 No.13133916 Report

Quoted By: >>13133925

>>13133908
Maybe Keen Eye Skarmory should be UU.
Smogon tiering system is fucking retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:12:21 No.13133918 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133915
more usable* excuse my english

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:12:26 No.13133921 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133908
even with keen eye skarmory would be OU, its balk in bird form

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:12:41 No.13133924 Report

Quoted By: >>13134524

>>13133905
That's not really a complex ban as it affects any pokemon with swift swim, not just one pokemon. A compelx ban would be "Toxic stall Haxorus is NU" or "Water Absorb Politoed is RU".

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:12:49 No.13133925 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133916
I guess we should ban Sandstream T-Tar to Ubers then?
Dumbass

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:13:16 No.13133929 Report

Quoted By: >>13133934

There is no reason for Overgrow Venusaur to be in OU. What the hell smogon.

There is no reason for Water Absorb Politoed should be OU. What the hell smogon.

There is no reason for Mewtwo that only has Confusion to be banned. What the hell smogon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:13:27 No.13133932 Report

Quoted By: >>13133953

>>13133915
Because Swift Swim + Drizzle is a much more potent combo?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:13:57 No.13133934 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133929
A Mewtwo that only has confusion would be NU though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:14:22 No.13133941 Report

Quoted By: >>13133986

>>13133911
It's like he wants to be part of the competitive battling community

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:14:29 No.13133943 Report

Quoted By: >>13133977

>>13133915
Pokemon with Chlorophyll don't get an extra STAB because of the weather, and they are more vulnerable to fire moves, which they are weak to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:14:50 No.13133946 Report

Quoted By: >>13134154

While we're at it
Why isn't Chlorophyll and Sun banned?
Drizzle and Swift Swim is.
I don't get smogon sometimes

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:14:55 No.13133948 Report

Quoted By: >>13133959

>Why can't I use Swarm Scizor in UU
Drizzle + Swift Swim was too powerful due to how OP Water-types in general are. Chlorophyll, on the other hand, is shit due to the majority of Pokemon that get it being shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:15:35 No.13133953 Report

Quoted By: >>13133977

>>13133932
No it isn't water types suck in this current meta it so outclassed by Sun abuse.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:16:40 No.13133959 Report

Quoted By: >>13133982

>>13133948
Leavanny and Victreebel are fucking monsters under the sun. There is a reason for Chlorophyll and Sun to be banned

sage

sage Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:17:13 No.13133963 Report

Quoted By:

you are a fucking idiot
do you even know how competitive battling works?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:17:23 No.13133965 Report

Quoted By: >>13133978 >>13133982 >>13133987 >>13133998 >>13134020

Garchomp - sand force/rush/whatever banned. Rough skin OK for OU

Blaziken - speed boost is ruled ubers. Blaze is not OU for OU

Can't explain that

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:17:54 No.13133969 Report

Quoted By: >>13133978

>the amount of people on /vp/ who know next to nothing on the metagame in these breads
lrn2smogon

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:18:51 No.13133977 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133953

>>13133943
See above.

Nevertheless, I do have issues with Smogon logic at times. That's double standards. Some Pokemon get banished entirely to Ubers due to one Ability, while others just have the Ability banned.

If it was consistent, I'd be fine with it, but nope. (I actually don't know if that stands now. Been a while)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:18:53 No.13133978 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133969
see
>>13133965

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:19:20 No.13133982 Report

Quoted By: >>13133992 >>13133996 >>13134914

>>13133959
>Leavanny and Victreebel are monsters under the sun
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! OH WOW!
>>13133965
That's because the ability Sand Veil is banned. Speed Boost isn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:19:44 No.13133984 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133888
Yeah, that's the one big mistake they've made. Just can't figure it out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:19:49 No.13133986 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133941
THAT'S EVEN WORSE

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:19:52 No.13133987 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133965
The ability Speed Boost isn't banned. The ability Sand Veil is.

There's your answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:20:21 No.13133992 Report

Quoted By: >>13134002 >>13134003 >>13134154

>>13133982
>banning abilities is OK
why not ban speed boost?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:20:39 No.13133996 Report

Quoted By: >>13134013 >>13134026

>>13133982
But they are you faggot
Try beating a Victreebel with Growth and Focus Sash with no priority

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:20:47 No.13133998 Report

Quoted By: >>13134010

>>13133965
because sand veil is broken in general. some guy got to the top of the OU ladder with sand veil cacturne. speed boost on the other hand is only broken on blaziken, and is fine on ninjask/sharpedo/yanmega

pls get good at smogon

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:21:04 No.13134002 Report

Quoted By: >>13134010

>>13133992

Because Speed Boost is fine on other Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:21:08 No.13134003 Report

Quoted By: >>13134010

>>13133992
Because Speed Boost isn't broken (Look at Yanmega and Sharpedo). Sand Veil was.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:22:22 No.13134010 Report

Quoted By: >>13134019 >>13134032

>>13133998
>>13134002
>>13134003
What makes something broken? The fact that people can't figure out how to counter it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:22:36 No.13134013 Report

Quoted By: >>13134929

>>13133996
Victreebel is a hipster's Venusaur. The only reason he's usable is because of Weather Ball and higher attack. It doesn't have Venusaur's glorious bulk.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:23:02 No.13134016 Report

Quoted By:

good job circlejerk 5/5

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:23:27 No.13134019 Report

Quoted By: >>13134033

>>13134010
So tell us how to counter it
>inb4MachampandGolurk
>inb4shittynomissmoves

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:23:28 No.13134020 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133965

sand veil and snow cloak are banned

Speed boost is allowed

So if a pokemon has cloak/veil it has to use its other ability

Any pokemon that has access to speed boost can use it, in the correct tier. In Balziken's case, Ubers.

Sharpedo, Ninjask, and Yanmega all have speed boost and are in different tiers

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:24:19 No.13134026 Report

Quoted By: >>13134034

>>13133996
>with no priority
Considering Scizor is the most overused pokemon out there, I think that's not a problem. Also
>focus sash
>in a metagame full of stealth rocks
lel

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:24:55 No.13134032 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134010

all bans go through many others of playtesting, voting, and statistics done but experienced verterans and high end players

For some reason people think that Smogon is one guy who just bans things when he gets beat by something

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:24:56 No.13134033 Report

Quoted By: >>13134055 >>13134058 >>13134062 >>13134068

>>13134019
no guard ice punch, air lock, using a different form of weather

garchomp is dead

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:25:07 No.13134034 Report

Quoted By: >>13134062 >>13134154

>>13134026
FUCK OFF WITH YOUR SMOGONFAGGOTRY

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:25:21 No.13134036 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133904

>inb5

Laughed harder than I should've

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:27:39 No.13134055 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134033
>No Guard Ice Punch
So everyone has to use a Machamp / Golurk to not get raped by Sand Veil? k
>Air Lock
Rayquaza is Ubers
>Cloud Nine
All the Cloud Nine users are shit. I'm not bringing shit to counter Sand Veil because then I'm weak to other shit
>Weather
Because caring your weather instantly means you will win the weather war.

Seriously, all of those are terrible arguments. The only decent one is probably Weather, but changing the weather is a shaky check at best.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:28:01 No.13134058 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134033
>no guard ice punch

So everyone has to carry a Machamp/Golurk now. Great.

>air lock

Only available to Rayquaza.

>using a different form of weather

Weather wars.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:28:19 No.13134061 Report

Quoted By:

This means that Snow Cloak glaceon should be banned to ubers.
Retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:28:31 No.13134062 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134033
>no guard Ice Punch
Garchomp is faster than all of those pokemon
>Air lock
Only known by Rayquaza, which Garchomp is faster than and can shrek with Outrage.
>using a different form of weather
Ok, I'll just get sand back up again with a balky as fuck tyranitar.
>>13134034
What?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:29:15 No.13134068 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134033

you don't play much competitive, do you

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:29:40 No.13134071 Report

Quoted By: >>13134154

>>13133915
Drizzle+swift swim is different from Drought+chlorophyll. There are tons of factors involved--you can't be so simplistic as to only look at what the mechanics behind the ban are. That's like saying everything with Speed Boost ought to be banned because of Blaziken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:33:52 No.13134105 Report

Quoted By: >>13134125

>not using Eviolite Combustken

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:34:17 No.13134110 Report

Quoted By: >>13134118 >>13134154

>all this smogon techno babble

i have no idea on what you guys are saying

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:35:14 No.13134118 Report

Quoted By: >>13134141 >>13134154

>>13134110
This Jim Smogon guy loses to pokemon and demands that no one uses them anymore. People listen him.

I don't get it either

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:36:17 No.13134125 Report

Quoted By: >>13134141

>>13134105
>using Eviolite Combustken
Life Orb Combustken is better, and is actually pretty decent in NU

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:39:22 No.13134141 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134118
Did you even read the thread, or are you just smogon hating because you can?
>>13134125
Life Orb special Combusken is the best late game sweeper in NU. I've won matches down 4-1 with that guy. Get one speed boost off and it's ogre. Fire Blast, Protect, Focus Blast, Flamethrower. Max speed and sp atk with modest nature. Try it out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:40:53 No.13134154 Report

Quoted By: >>13134200 >>13134233

>>13133946
see
>>13134071

>>13133992
Yeah, Sharpedo sure is fucking niggas up

>>13134034
>goes into competitive thread
>sees post about viability
>gets pissed

>>13134110
>>13134118
Then why did you open the thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:45:01 No.13134184 Report

Quoted By:

>Speed Boost
>Swords Dance
>Baton Pass

If something threatens it, it can just Baton Pass its boosts to something else.

And it has no counters, except Giratina.

>inb4Aqua Jet

No Pokemon with Aqua Jet can safely switch in on Blaziken.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:48:30 No.13134200 Report

Quoted By: >>13134253

>>13134154
>oh no someone doesn't like muh smogon!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:52:46 No.13134233 Report

Quoted By: >>13134245 >>13134253

>>13134154
Actually, life orbed Sharpedo under rain is almost broken. The only reason nobody uses it is because people tend to forget Sharpedo exists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:54:29 No.13134245 Report

Quoted By: >>13134276

>>13134233

The only reason nobody uses it is because it can't take a hit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:55:05 No.13134253 Report

Quoted By: >>13134276

>>13134200
>knitting club starts
>not into knitting
>know nothing about knitting
>walk in
>"Wow, Sharon, that's a nice purl stitch"
>WOW, UH, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS HAPPENING
>"Then why did you come here?"
>T-TO LAUGH AT YOU GUYS. HA HA HA. Ha.

>>13134233
The meta is self-regulating. I have a hard time believing that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:57:12 No.13134273 Report

Quoted By: >>13134292 >>13134302 >>13134577

These were the same people that banned Skymin and said Iron Head Jirachi was A-OK. They also go on systematic dragon bans (see DPPt) up to the point where even Dragonite was being considered broken.

Best way to stick it to Smogon is to get to the top of the ladder using broken shit and quit. Was banned off the site because I forced one of the mods to rage quit and logged it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:57:25 No.13134276 Report

Quoted By: >>13134284

>>13134253
Have you ever used it under rain?
>>13134245
And that, but if you're smart with it, you'll be fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:58:23 No.13134284 Report

Quoted By: >>13134677

>>13134276
No. What I'm saying is, if it were viable, it'd be used--metas with a lot of players work this shit out like clockwork.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 06:59:17 No.13134292 Report

Quoted By: >>13134314

>>13134273
Iron Head Jirachi isn't broken at all.
>>13134273
>Was banned off the site because I forced one of the mods to rage quit and logged it.
Uh huh, sure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:00:35 No.13134302 Report

Quoted By: >>13134310

>>13134273
Isn't Skymin faster than Jirachi and hits much harder?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:01:28 No.13134310 Report

Quoted By: >>13134365

>>13134302
It also has Seed Flare, which puts you at -2 practically every time it used it thanks to Serene Grace

Shit is not fun

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:02:03 No.13134314 Report

Quoted By: >>13134319

>>13134292

Beat RBG 6-2, you can find it cached in Smogon "Past Generation Teams" under the name Boss Giovanni.

>b-but that's not you

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:02:32 No.13134319 Report

Quoted By: >>13134365

>>13134314
What was your team?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:07:25 No.13134365 Report

Quoted By: >>13134411

>>13134319

Uxie-Scizor-Mence-TormentTran-Rotom(w)-and fuck me if I can remember #6

>Uxie
Yes.

>>13134310
Terrible typing in comparison with Rachi, weak to SR, only ever ran one set, but maybe I found Rachi personally more difficult.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:12:18 No.13134411 Report

Quoted By: >>13134446

>>13134365

6th member was a standard Vappy. It's amazing what you can do when you're the only person who didn't run Machamp or a suicide lead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:16:04 No.13134446 Report

Quoted By: >>13134474

>>13134411
>t's amazing what you can do when you're the only person who didn't run Machamp or a suicide lead.
What? Nobody runs Machamp anymore. He's UU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:21:03 No.13134474 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134446
Pretty sure he was talking about Gen IV. Conkeldurr is the new resident gym rat after all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:26:14 No.13134507 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133904
Blaze Blaziken IS a thing
It just doesn't have a set because no one uses it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:28:00 No.13134524 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133924
I wouldn't mind water absorb Politoed in a lower tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:34:42 No.13134577 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134273

Shaymin's Sky Forme is incredibly broken because it's ridiculously fast, meaning it doesn't need T-Wave/Body Slam/Thunder like Jirachi does before it starts Flinch-haxing. It also hits harder WHILE having room in its moveslot for a Substitute, which is always good for insurance. Iron Head Jirachi isn't broken at all. It's not going to sweep a team like Shaymin can.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:43:39 No.13134638 Report

Quoted By: >>13134718 >>13134848

>>13133888
'complex ban' is bullshit, it would be fine to say 'you can use blaze blaziken in any tier', but Smogonfags are far too finicky and autistic for that

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:48:51 No.13134677 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134284

Compared to other competitive games pokemon doesn't have that many serious competitive players.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:53:36 No.13134718 Report

Quoted By: >>13134738

>>13134638

I agree. I mean, I enjoy using Excadrill and I don't want to battle some faggot and have him go "ECKSCUHDRILL IZZ UBER BANNED YOO LOOZ FAG HURR DURR" Even though it has a Modest Nature and Mold Breaker. It's not broken and it's my favorite Pokemon.

Smogon should just ban non-Modest, non-Mold Breaker Excadrill, but they're too retarded to do complex bans like that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 07:55:49 No.13134738 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134718
I don't even think adamant exca is broken at all, it's super slow and has a ton of weaknesses because of its typing which isn't that great despite what some people will say

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 08:08:37 No.13134848 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134638

Complex bans have a snowball effect. It you allow Blaziken with one thing removed, you'd have to reconsider EVERYTHING banned from OU the same way. Landorus only knowing Physical Moves, Thundurus not having Prankster, Shaymin not knowing anything to abuse Serene Grace, Kyogre not knowing Water Spout, Mewtwo with only approved sets. Complex bans aren't a thing because it's hard to come up with them (although it would be), they don't exist so that people don't have to memorize a laundry list of specific things they can and can't do in battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 08:16:14 No.13134914 Report

Quoted By:

>>13133982
>Gliscor

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jul 2013 08:17:33 No.13134929 Report

Quoted By:

>>13134013
>The only reason he's usable is because it's superior to Venusaur in some aspects.

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