/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #13229606

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Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:11:23 No.13229606 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13229659 >>13229764 >>13233573

So which NFE pokemon are capable of outperforming their evolutions competitively?

What comes to mind is
>Dusclops
>Porygon2
>Rhydon
>Aron
>Cottonee
>Pikachu
>Chansey
Any others?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:15:48 No.13229647 Report

Quoted By:

I think you've pretty much got it covered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:16:04 No.13229650 Report

Quoted By: >>13229660

Whimsicott is better than cottonee, Porygon2 is debatable since Z is a pretty good sweeper in UU, Raichu is generally better than Pikachu despite light ball, and Aron is a gimmick that requires ridiculous team support.

Rhydon is only better defensively, and Chansey has the potential to outperform Blissey but Blissey can be more easily added to less specialized teams because of how Chaney is easily worn down. Dusclops is the only one truly better than its evolution.

Sableye will join Dusclops next gen

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:16:18 No.13229652 Report

Quoted By: >>13229901

Nincada is better than Shedinja I guess

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:16:52 No.13229659 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229606
Maybe Golbat

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:16:52 No.13229660 Report

Quoted By: >>13229671 >>13233599

>>13229650
You missed the
>capable of outperforming
>capable

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:17:54 No.13229668 Report

Quoted By: >>13229680

Murkrow

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:17:57 No.13229671 Report

Quoted By: >>13229690

>>13229660
Alright, so OP's list is pretty much right with the exception of Cottonee.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:18:44 No.13229680 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229668
Little Cup shit doesn't count.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:19:04 No.13229688 Report

Quoted By: >>13229718 >>13229719

Porgon2 and PorgonZ are more split evos than solid evos, in my opinion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:19:05 No.13229690 Report

Quoted By: >>13229714 >>13229719

>>13229671
Cottonee can be used the same way as Aron, which is generally more effective than Whimsicott

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:21:34 No.13229710 Report

Quoted By: >>13229715

Slowpoke, Graveler and Rhydon too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:22:10 No.13229714 Report

Quoted By: >>13229727 >>13229735

>>13229690
Not really, fear cottonee is so easily countered its sad, completely shit on by priority users, volt turn, grass types, multi hit moves, magic guard, phasers.

I guess in the loosest possible terms it is capable of outperforming whimsicott, but whimsi is generally just way better.

Oh also Riolu in that case.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:22:20 No.13229715 Report

Quoted By: >>13229779

>>13229710
I've never seen Slowpoke or Graveler used competitively, care to elaborate?
Also Rhydon was covered

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:22:35 No.13229718 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229688
They're evos in the way Scizor is an evo to Scyther.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:22:36 No.13229719 Report

Quoted By: >>13229735 >>13229778

Magneton can do some stuff that Magnezone can't, I think. I guess you could say the same about Scyther and anything else that doesn't increase every stat when it evolves.

>>13229688
Your opinion is wrong.

>>13229690
Explain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:23:36 No.13229727 Report

Quoted By: >>13229738

>>13229714
Does fear stand for something? I see the term thrown around a lot

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:24:29 No.13229735 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229719
Cottonee @ Focus Sash
Trait: Prankster
Level: 3
EVs: 196 Def / 144 SDef / 168 Atk
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Endeavor
- Encore
But basically what >>13229714 said

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:25:06 No.13229738 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229727
It used to stand for focus sash endeavor something something but its been watered down to basically mean a level 1 pokemon that acts as a win condition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:29:34 No.13229764 Report

Quoted By: >>13229778

>>13229606
Counting Cottonee and Aron is bullshit IMO. Also, if you count these, you need to count Riolu and Clamperl as well. (If you're gonna be a whore for gimicks, you could include Solosis as well)
Besides, I've seen some Tangela (although I'm not a fan of those either). Also, yeah, Murkrow can outperform Honchcrow the same way Porygon2 outperforms Z. I'd agree with maybe adding Golbat as well.

Depending on hw your rules actually are, Trapinch may outperform Vibrava.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:31:21 No.13229778 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229764
>>13229719
Yeah shit, I forgot magneton as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:31:27 No.13229779 Report

Quoted By: >>13229788 >>13229796 >>13229809

>>13229715
Sure.
I use an eviolithe slowpoke with maxed out defenses. Its attacks are fire blast, scald, slack off and yawn.
Yawn is to make threats back off, slowpoke can usually take more than 2 hits, also to stop setting up. Scald is for crippling physical attackers, fireblast to scare away grass types and slack off for obvious reasons.
I "swept" an entire team of three with it once.

Graveler i use in a trick room sand storm tean. Mixed defenses, full attack power. Explosion, Earthquake, protect and stone edge
He's a monster in terms of defence too

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:32:16 No.13229788 Report

Quoted By: >>13229830

>>13229779
Replays pls.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:32:59 No.13229796 Report

Quoted By: >>13229830

>>13229779
You fail to explain how any of these would be superior to their evolutions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:34:34 No.13229809 Report

Quoted By: >>13229837

>>13229779
Why would you use Graveler if you're going to orient it offensively?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:37:09 No.13229830 Report

Quoted By: >>13229836 >>13229891

>>13229788
I did it on normal wifi. Since i restarted my game for a nuzlocke i don't have it anymore. I'm sorry.

>>13229796
Easy. Both of them have higher defenses while they can still dish out enough damage to be dangerous.
Imagine graveler in sandstorm and screens up. He even survives 2 water or grass attacks with that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:37:52 No.13229836 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229830
>I did it on normal wifi. Since i restarted my game for a nuzlocke i don't have it anymore. I'm sorry.
ok

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:38:03 No.13229837 Report

Quoted By: >>13229856

>>13229809
For fun. It's not groundbreakingly good, but viable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:39:36 No.13229856 Report

Quoted By: >>13229867

>>13229837
Do you know what the topic of the thread is

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:40:36 No.13229864 Report

Quoted By: >>13229872 >>13229874

Why is Porygon 2 better than Porygon z?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:40:44 No.13229867 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229856
Yes. It's superior to Golem in terms of defences. Same goes for slowpoke.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:41:20 No.13229872 Report

Quoted By: >>13229881 >>13229902

>>13229864
Defences.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:41:23 No.13229874 Report

Quoted By: >>13229881 >>13229902

>>13229864
Bulky as fuck. Doesn't die.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:42:14 No.13229881 Report

Quoted By: >>13229900

>>13229872
>>13229874
So I need to give him that stone that raises your defence if you're nfe?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:43:01 No.13229891 Report

Quoted By: >>13229915

>>13229830
Graveler's SDef is only a bit higher then Golem's. You only really gain a fuckload of Def, but lose out on a bit of Atk as well. So while you turn your opponent's 2HKOs into 3HKOs you probably do the same for yours. It's definitely an interesting idea but I still don;t see it as viable enough to regard it in this context. There are a lot of second-stages with the exact same trade-off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:44:03 No.13229900 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229881
Eviolite, yeah

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:44:11 No.13229901 Report

Quoted By: >>13229910

>>13229652
Shedinja isn't an evolution of Nincada

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:44:17 No.13229902 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229872
>>13229874
also dat situational trace

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:45:05 No.13229910 Report

Quoted By: >>13230776 >>13233652

>>13229901
Yes it is

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:45:38 No.13229915 Report

Quoted By: >>13229924

>>13229891
Golem has sucker punch. Graveler does not. That's a redeeming point for Golem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:46:31 No.13229924 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229915
Golem gets to hold custap berry too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:46:59 No.13229930 Report

Quoted By: >>13229987 >>13230824

Chansey does not outperform Blissey. For one, Blissey can actually hit shit and isn't complete Gengar bait.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 05:53:26 No.13229987 Report

Quoted By: >>13233673

>>13229930
>you in charge of reading comprehension

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:02:28 No.13230776 Report

Quoted By: >>13230825

>>13229910
>400 some bst to 200 some bst
>evolution
ok
>inb4 scyther and scizor
they are more of counterparts than evo and prevo

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:12:42 No.13230824 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229930
>using blissey offensively
top lel
Literally every time someone has tried that on me it ends up costing them the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:12:55 No.13230825 Report

Quoted By:

>>13230776
>Evolution is a process in which a Pokémon changes into a different species of Pokémon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:16:51 No.13230840 Report

Quoted By:

This is why Pokemon sucks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:19:08 No.13230853 Report

Quoted By: >>13230866

>Aron
>Not completely shut down by Sneaky Pebbles, Ghosts and anything that's immune to Sandstorm
At least Aggron hits really fucking hard: Aron is just a total piece of shit against anyone who isn't a complete fucking retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:22:41 No.13230866 Report

Quoted By: >>13230936

>>13230853
Aron wins out for SABER.

Does Lairon gain anything over Aggron by using Eviolite?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:29:16 No.13230885 Report

Quoted By: >>13230896

Pinsir because i always though of it as a scizor counterpart in regards to it having an evolution. I hope bug/steel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:31:33 No.13230894 Report

Quoted By: >>13230911 >>13231047

Vigoroth

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:31:49 No.13230896 Report

Quoted By:

>>13230885
I'd love to see a Pinsir evolution, but what does this have to do with the thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:36:50 No.13230911 Report

Quoted By:

>>13230894
Wow I completely forgot about that one

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:44:52 No.13230936 Report

Quoted By: >>13230951

>>13230866
>Aron wins out for SABER
>A moveset which you can't possibly fall for if you've ever heard of it before and gets destroyed by a bunch of common things
Lairon gets about 100 more Defense and Special Defense over Aggron with Eviolite (reaching up to ~600 Defense) at the cost of 20 HP so it gets some pretty impressive bulk. Too bad its typing is too shit to make use of it. Aron is still a complete piece of shit though. I can actually see some very specific situations where Aggron might be useful but Aron just doesn't work against any remotely competent player.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:45:07 No.13230937 Report

Quoted By: >>13230945 >>13230955

I don't play too competitively, why is dusclops better than its evolution?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:48:29 No.13230945 Report

Quoted By:

>>13230937
It gets significantly higher defenses than Dusknoir while holding Eviolite.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:49:15 No.13230951 Report

Quoted By: >>13230956

>>13230936
I just meant it gets recognition for the strategy.

And thank you for telling me. The whole line has SOME way they can be made sort of usable, and the whole line ends up not being able to play competitively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:50:44 No.13230955 Report

Quoted By:

>>13230937
It's a wall made of the stuff GameCubes are made out of with Eviolite, has Pressure, and nullifies Rapid Spin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:51:17 No.13230956 Report

Quoted By:

>>13230951
But that's kind of like saying Swinub can have some use over Mamoswine because it can pull off a FEAR set slightly better than Rattata.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 08:53:55 No.13230966 Report

Quoted By: >>13231025

Magnemite could beat both Magneton and Magnezone.

Sturdy
oran berry
recycle
swagger
protect
magic coat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 09:13:30 No.13231025 Report

Quoted By: >>13231068

>>13230966
Even among gimmicky level 1 sets, that really is bottom of the barrel. How are you ever supposed to find time to use Recycle and why would you want to use Swagger as your only means of dealing any damage?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 09:25:21 No.13231047 Report

Quoted By: >>13231093

>>13230894
>Implying Slaking isn't a force to be reckoned with
Dude, seriously?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 09:34:47 No.13231068 Report

Quoted By: >>13231094

>>13231025
1st turn
take whatever damage move magneton/zone uses
oran berry activates after sturdy
use swagger on the foe
Then just use recycle until the foe hits itself then swagger again.
rinse and repeat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 09:41:40 No.13231093 Report

Quoted By: >>13233700

>>13231047
>Protect

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 09:42:41 No.13231094 Report

Quoted By: >>13231104

>>13231068
>Opponent switches after Swagger
>?
or
>Opponent recovers from confusion without hitting itself
>Die
At least awful Endeavor gimmicks can actually potentially deal good damage to one Pokémon if you get it in at a good time and they don't have a Ghost. Your Magnemite literally can't do anything to someone who knows how to switch or uses Taunt or Substitute (yes, Magic Coat can technically deal with Taunt but if you predict wrong and they just attack instead you're fucked). Anything with reliable recovery can just stall you out of Recycles too. This set is literally the worst shit I've ever seen anyone suggest. It has zero redeeming qualities. It's enormous risk for minimal reward

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 09:44:46 No.13231104 Report

Quoted By: >>13231169

>>13231094
>Opponent switches after Swagger

now that would defeat the purpose of going against it's evolution now wouldn't it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 09:59:47 No.13231169 Report

Quoted By:

>>13231104
>So which NFE pokemon are capable of outperforming their evolutions competitively?
>Outperforming something competitively means being able to beat it 1v1 now
That's not how it works dipshit. I guess Sudowoodo outperforms Volcarona now because it can beat it in a 1v1 situation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 10:17:12 No.13231227 Report

Quoted By: >>13233862

BALKY EVIOLITE SWADLOON
TOXIC/SUNNYDAY/SYNTHESIS/PROTECT/CHLOROPHYLL
TRY IT NOW HURRY OMFG ITS REVOLUTIONARY

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 17:27:50 No.13233573 Report

Quoted By: >>13233699

>>13229606
>cottonee
>pikachu
>chansery
Nigga wat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 17:30:48 No.13233599 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229660
In that case, Murkrow and Riolu

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 17:36:29 No.13233652 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229910
No, it evolves into Ninjask, and is created peripherally

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 17:38:51 No.13233673 Report

Quoted By:

>>13229987
>being this buttfrustrated that your thread is shit
Okay, if you're going to be a Nazi about things, then Mudkip because my level 100 waterfall/EQ mudkip outperforms my level 40 Swampert that only has protect and is holding Black Sludge

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 17:41:41 No.13233699 Report

Quoted By:

>>13233573
Eviolite
Light Ball

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 17:41:42 No.13233700 Report

Quoted By:

>>13231093
>Mummy

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 17:50:51 No.13233756 Report

Quoted By:

I'd say Clamperl definitely outperformed Gorebyss and Huntail last gen, now though they have very different niches. Electabuzz also outperforms Electivire, you know it's true.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1362957589943.png, 4KiB, 256x256

Anonymous Fri 02 Aug 2013 18:04:06 No.13233862 Report

Quoted By:

>>13231227
Gee, it's almost like I'm really on /vp/

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