/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #13606128

[179 / 13 / ?]

483KiB, 400x288, Wario and Bowser sharing a grilled Toad together.png

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 17:20:58 No.13606128 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13606158 >>13606405 >>13620841 >>13621381

Why don't Smogon just unban Double Team? It's not like it's any more overcentralizing than Stealth Rock and permaweather, and it would allow a lot of pokemon to become viable in OU games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 17:21:44 No.13606133 Report

Quoted By:

Nobody finds it fun to play against.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 17:22:29 No.13606140 Report

Quoted By:

oh look its THIS thread again

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 17:24:37 No.13606158 Report

Quoted By: >>13607005 >>13608749 >>13620207

>>13606128
It would make moves such as Aerial Ace a lot more viable. Smogon hates Aerial Ace because that would mean the opponent actually has a backup plan that ruins their precious single strategy metagame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 17:32:45 No.13606223 Report

Quoted By:

Why don't you just ask them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 17:37:19 No.13606255 Report

Quoted By: >>13606799 >>13607078

It's kind of funny. Double Team countered easily than Stealth Rock and Permaweather. Double Team has a lot of counters (guaranteed hit moves, lock-on, haze, roar, whirlwind, etc) while SR and Weather got far less counters (SR's counter is literally just spin and spin only. Weather has to be countered with other weathers)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:00:25 No.13606405 Report

Quoted By: >>13607775 >>13609039

>>13606128
the eastern metagame doesn't actually ban evasion or accuracy lowering

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:12:17 No.13606488 Report

Quoted By:

I don't know. They should.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:14:36 No.13606513 Report

Quoted By: >>13606715

Because its shitty to play against, and doesn't really make more pokemon viable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:14:59 No.13606521 Report

Quoted By:

Because people are fucking stupid and almost always copy paste teams from Smogon to showdown without even thinking about back ups for certain cases.

Smogon is fantastic for giving you a brief layout of what to have but people really need to think of backup plans when their perfect strategy fucks up badly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:36:13 No.13606715 Report

Quoted By: >>13606930

>>13606513
Is it shittier to play against than Stealth Rock? Evasion tanking has multiple weaknesses and counter moves. The only answer to SR is a single move in the entire game, or taking it on the chin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:38:04 No.13606734 Report

Quoted By: >>13606799

Out of curiousity... if Smogon is so against luck-based anything, why don't they ban critical hits? Or why don't they ban all moves that don't have 100% accuracy? Isn't that exactly what's going on here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:41:26 No.13606780 Report

Quoted By:

Because Smogon is shit and fuck off smogonfags!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:43:25 No.13606799 Report

Quoted By: >>13606817 >>13609181

>>13606255
>guranteed hit moves
are pitifully weak bar aura sphere
>lock on
nobody wants to waste a moveslot just for double team.
and guess how many pokemon get lock on?
>haze
also poor distribution, and very few people use haze even though there's likely a setup sweeper on every team
>roar, whirlwind
The foe's x used roar! It missed!

>>13606734
have you ever even played against double team?
inb4 i used aerial ace and kicked their butts!

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO image.jpg, 113KiB, 640x1136

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:44:59 No.13606815 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:45:23 No.13606817 Report

Quoted By: >>13606856

>>13606799
have you ever even played against stealth rocks?
inb4 i used rapid spin and kicked their butts!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:49:08 No.13606856 Report

Quoted By:

>>13606817
am i being rused

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 18:55:33 No.13606930 Report

Quoted By: >>13607034 >>13607060

>>13606715
>Evasion tanking has multiple weaknesses
And how many of those are effective against the 600+ pokemon that LEARN double team? Your shitty little Aerial Ace or Swift won't do anything to a Metagross.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:01:17 No.13607005 Report

Quoted By:

>>13606158
You mean the precious single strategy they banned? That one?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:03:27 No.13607033 Report

Quoted By: >>13607101 >>13607145

The best stealth rock counter is not using Charizard, but that's too difficult for /vp/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:03:29 No.13607034 Report

Quoted By: >>13607081 >>13621391

>>13606930
And your shitty rapid spin won't do anything against anyone period.

Meanwhile Faint Attack, Aerial Ace, Shadow Punch, Magnet Bomb, Swift, Magical Leaf, and Shock Wave are a wide enough range of moves that most of everything is weak to at least on of these.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:05:22 No.13607060 Report

Quoted By:

>>13606930
Basically, banning evasion all boils down to this. It makes walls/bulky attackers a total bitch to take down, and there's no real effective strategy about that.

Countering SR is as simple as not making a team too weak to Rock. And attacking Rock moves are already widely used, so even with SR out your precious 4x weak to Rock team would still be shat on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:06:15 No.13607073 Report

Quoted By: >>13607191 >>13608934 >>13609539

Let's take Blissey. An already really good pokemon which gives a lot of teams trouble. It switches in against a special attacker. As it switches out, it uses Double Team (assuming minimize is still banned). It is also holding Brightpowder. You attack it with a powerful physical attack, but it misses, and then it uses Double Team again. Now the accuracy of 100% accurate moves is the same as Focus Blast. And it will keep increasing. And if you don't one shot it, it will use Softboiled, so it will be almost unonstoppable. Chance says it will be able to sweep you in the most frustrating way. And the only move that always hits it that will do passable damage is fucking Vital Throw.

An even worse case is Gliscor. It sets up a sub into something that doesn't threat it in a sandstorm, and then procceeds to Double Team while healing itself with it's ability until everything that's not called Abomasnow can't get past it. And it will fuck your shit Sideways with Earthquake and Toxic, meaning only Skarmory or balloon steel types can wall it. And it's not like they can do much to it anyways, not to mention it's got an incredibly sinergy with Blissey.

If Double Team is unbanned, OU becomes Blissey and Gliscor: the tier. Breloom and Dragonite become ridiculous threats as well, more than what they already are. Magnezone just has to switch into an steel type and it's good game, though Aura Sphere fucks it bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:06:42 No.13607078 Report

Quoted By: >>13609573

>>13606255
>rapid spin
>taunt
>magic bounce
>Magic Coat
>Magic Guard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:06:54 No.13607081 Report

Quoted By: >>13607129 >>13607154

>>13607034
Rapid Spin is actually an utility move that can deal some damage, you aren't meant to be actually use it as an attack, but it helps in case of Taunt.

Or are you one of those kids that puts all attack moves on everything?

this thread takes me back to a while ago

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:08:37 No.13607101 Report

Quoted By: >>13620293

>>13607033
Fucking this
Stealth Rock is fine as it is, Evasion is just retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:10:07 No.13607129 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607081
>playing R/B back when I was 9
>Link battle with a friend
>Use stuff like Double Team
>"Dude why use pointless moves like that? Just attack!"
>He never manages to beat me

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:10:36 No.13607141 Report

Quoted By:

Additionally, the only truly good always hit move, Aura Sphere, is available only to a ridiculously low amount of pokes, half of those Ubers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:10:49 No.13607145 Report

Quoted By: >>13609211

>>13607033
Funniest part is that even with rocks, Volcarona is still a pretty good pokemon that would be almost broken without them, and Dragonite, who seems to be made useless by rocks, is one of the top OU pokes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:11:31 No.13607154 Report

Quoted By: >>13607182 >>13607190 >>13607218

>>13607081
>Rapid Spin
>does very little damage and is the only counter for entry hazards

>Aerial Ace
>does decent damage and is one of many very similar counters to increaed evasion/decreased accuracy

Those moves do a lot better of a job as a "utility" than fucking rapid spin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:13:31 No.13607182 Report

Quoted By: >>13607214 >>13607219

>>13607154
And yet Rapid Spin does it's job way better than Aerial Ace does it's own. Rapid Spin will always clear entry hazard as long as it hits, no matter for how much. Aerial Ace instead does shitty amounts of damage and will do jack shit to a decent wall.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:14:08 No.13607190 Report

Quoted By: >>13607219 >>13607761

>>13607154
>Aerial Ace
>does decent damage
Yeah, show me a replay of you sweeping with Aerial Ace.
The only thing Aerial Ace is doing decent damage is to Breloom. Besides Scizor, no poke should run Aerial Ace, and Aerial Ace is only viable on Scizor if you're desperate about Conckeldurr and Keldeo (which still OHKOs with Hydro Pump in the rain).

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO I don't like this.jpg, 124KiB, 500x337

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:14:13 No.13607191 Report

Quoted By: >>13607210 >>13607753

>>13607073
>Evasion Blissey and Gliscor
Why is it so hard to understand that these things would technically be hell incarnate

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:16:05 No.13607210 Report

Quoted By: >>13607234

>>13607191
Sand Veil Garchomp and Gliscor were already broken enough when they were legal. Some people just need something to complain about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:16:21 No.13607214 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607182
Additionally, remember that Aerial Ace and clones base power is 60.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:16:52 No.13607218 Report

Quoted By: >>13607252

>>13607154
Yes, but Rapid Spin has a specific purpose; it's one of the few things that will give you leeway from Stealth Rock. You don't have to use it, but it's recommended if you want to use something like Volcarona. Aerial Ace would be required if you even want to think about damaging the opponent, and yet it's still horrible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:17:05 No.13607219 Report

Quoted By: >>13607236 >>13607246 >>13607247 >>13607253 >>13607270 >>13607336 >>13608895 >>13620173

>>13607182
>>13607190

It does 3 times more than rapid spin you fucking retards. You can't say that it's a shitty move than turn around and use an attack with base 20 power. Have YOU ever sweeped with rapid spin idiots.

This is completely ignoring the fact that I listed like eight moves that are bound to be super effective against something. Not just aerial ace.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:17:38 No.13607228 Report

Quoted By:

why do you fags always compare it to stealth rock?
stealth rock is in no way a terror to the metagame, you're just a faggot who cannot stop switching his pokemon out over and over again
it doesn't even do that much damage in today's hyperoffense metagame, where most things that take more than 12% from it would faint in two moves anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:18:20 No.13607234 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607210
Only because they had no alternate ability in gen 4 and relied on having sandstorm up. And it couldn't go further than +1 evasion.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO hurr durr.jpg, 10KiB, 231x218

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:18:26 No.13607236 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607219

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:19:13 No.13607246 Report

Quoted By: >>13607789

>>13607219
They're still not going to do anything though. They're shitty however you look at them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:19:18 No.13607247 Report

Quoted By: >>13607264

>>13607219
>still insisting on using Rapid Spin for dealing damage
I'm pretty sure now that I'm being trolled here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:20:14 No.13607252 Report

Quoted By: >>13607265 >>13607294

>>13607218
>Yes, but Aerial Ace has a specific purpose; it's one of the few things that will give you leeway from evasion boosting moves.

How is that any fucking different? It's your fault if you're using it as a primary attacking move. It would be equally as stupid to use rapid spin as an attack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:20:18 No.13607253 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607219
in this metagame you're desribing, EVERYTHING would have rapid spin and a never miss move
you're gonna have to sweep with aerial ace if you want to hit them when they start boosting the turn they get sent out

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:21:39 No.13607264 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607247
You obviously are, jesus how stupid can you be

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:21:54 No.13607265 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607252
Because you don't HAVE to use something to counter Stealth Rock. If Evasion became a prominent factor in the metagame, you WILL need a counter if you like to enjoy the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:22:42 No.13607270 Report

Quoted By: >>13607825 >>13620185

>>13607219
I don't run Rapid Spin in OU and while I DO give a shit about them, I don't think they're half broken.
Yeah, it's sure much easier to win without them on your side and with them on your opponent's side, but it's not like you have to clear them away. Rapid Spin is useful for clearing hazards, not doing damage. Not all moves are supposed to do damage. Aerial Ace is, so if it does shitty damage is a bad move. If Rapid Spin only cleared hazards 60% of the time it'd be a shitty move but it always does it's job well enough. It's like an status move, pretty much, whose effect is to clear hazards.

I'm almost certain I'm getting ruse here, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:25:50 No.13607294 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607252
Because it would end as a primary attacking move in an evasion unbanned metagame, since nothing more powerful (Apart Aura Sphere) would be able to hit without tremendous amounts of luck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 19:32:14 No.13607336 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607219
You're not using Rapid Spin because it does damage. You're using it because it removes Entry Hazards. The damage it does i incidental.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 20:30:20 No.13607753 Report

Quoted By: >>13609539

>>13607191
>Evasion Blissey
>aerial ace is physical
And against Gliscor lot of hazers could learn ice beam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 20:32:32 No.13607761 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607190
>wanting to use double team counter strategy successfully in a baned double team game
>not realising that the most used strategies would change

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 20:33:59 No.13607775 Report

Quoted By:

>>13606405
accuracy reduction moves aren't banned by smogon either though

also lul anyone who says double team has counters has no idea what the fuck they are saying. Stay scrub OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 20:35:04 No.13607789 Report

Quoted By: >>13608259

>>13607246
>rapid spin
>no shitty

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 20:38:19 No.13607825 Report

Quoted By: >>13607858 >>13607884

>>13607270
Rapid spin can't be used against ghost types
And if you want to remove evasion you could just use haze.
Or defog! Is an awesome move, really, remove entry hazards, walls and give -1 evasion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 20:40:53 No.13607858 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607825
It removes your entry hazards too nignog

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO moody.png, 41KiB, 932x452

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 20:43:56 No.13607884 Report

Quoted By: >>13607962

>>13607825
>Haze
Either you have to assume they're using DT (Which almost every Pokemon can learm), or you have to waste a turn debuffing them, which they will use to kill your Haze/Defog user. Rapid Spin is not for damage, and most mon in the meta don't run 4 damage attacks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 20:53:18 No.13607962 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607884
>OHKOing a hazer
Hazers usually are really bulky, anon.

And Moody pokemon have bad stats, so once you remove its boost are easily killable and hard to be killed by them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 21:27:03 No.13608259 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607789
When did I ever fucking say that you cockgobbler

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:20:20 No.13608697 Report

Quoted By: >>13608885

people who say "duh just use haze and then ice beam" or "just kill blissey with aerial ace" have literally never played competitive pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:27:20 No.13608749 Report

Quoted By:

>>13606158
Scyther loves to run Aerial Ace.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:43:56 No.13608885 Report

Quoted By: >>13609012

>>13608697
You never played competitive pokemon.
You play competitive smogon.
It's not same.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:45:36 No.13608895 Report

Quoted By: >>13608934 >>13608935

>>13607219
So Blissey gets Minimize. Now what? You just hit it with a perfect accuracy move? Like Aerial Ace? The only Fighting move with perfect accuracy is Aura Sphere -- a special move. The only way to take it down is STILL trying to hit it with a high BP physical move, which now may miss, as Blissey Softboils up and continues using Minimize.

Blissey isn't the only wall like this. Weak to a perfect accuracy move or not, it just makes walls incredibly hard or even near impossible to take down depending on your luck. It's also just not fun to play. I couldn't imagine why someone would actually want to use an evasion set, but that's more personal.

TL;DR perfect accuracy moves definitely aren't counters to evasion, and anyone who thinks so is clearly new to the metagame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:49:46 No.13608934 Report

Quoted By:

>>13608895
I hadn't realized that pretty much the exact same point had been made by
>>13607073

Also, I forgot about Vital Throw. I also didn't even mention abilities like Sand Veil and items like BrightPowder! Jesus. Sand Veil Bright Powder Sub Protect Gliscor would be... would just be hell...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:49:54 No.13608935 Report

Quoted By: >>13609012

>>13608895
Sacred Sword is Blissey killer.
>perfect accuracy moves definitely aren't counters to evasion
That's why there are others options anon, taunt and no guard are most obvious ones.
And seriously, haze is amazing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:52:41 No.13608976 Report

Quoted By:

>Technician Pokemon with Never-miss moves get massive boost

Excuse me, I have to go train a Persian, Scyther and Roserade.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:55:13 No.13609012 Report

Quoted By: >>13609051

>>13608885
And competitive smogon is the biggest pokémon community.
Its not like you can beat DT in smogon metas with aerial ace either, you know.

>>13608935
Sacred Sword is on four whole pokémon, and only three can actually make use of it. Coolios.
Roar/Whirlwind/Clear Smog are nearly always amazing, as the formers can also force out the opponent while the latter isn't blocked by taunt. Haze is bad in normal play because its distribution is limited and (ironically) it's outclassed by pseudo-phazing moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:57:57 No.13609039 Report

Quoted By: >>13609087

>>13606405
>the eastern metagame doesn't actually ban evasion or accuracy lowering
Instead of arguing with the troll who claims Rapid Spin is bad becaue it does no damage, wouldn't this be a more interesting discussion?

I'm actually quite curious about the eastern meta.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:59:07 No.13609051 Report

Quoted By: >>13609087

>>13609012
Biggest pokemon community is not best competitive pokemon game.

And again, DT would change smogon tiers and strategies, but just a bit.

And pseudo-phazing moves has 100 accuracy, so are useless against DT.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:01:50 No.13609087 Report

Quoted By: >>13609149

>>13609051
>But just a bit
Did you ever play when PO tried to unban evasion back when they still applied smogon rules?
It was everywhere. Metagame revolved around it. They had to remove it after a few days.
It would change everything.

And I just said that haze is not "amazing", it's terrible IN THIS META, not in the horrible DT meta.

>>13609039
iirc, they either played by nintendo rules (no lower tiers, only OU) or a tier where pokémon with greater BST than 600 are banned
Oh and they banned SD Gallade
Either way their only tier is OU, and they mainly play dubs so yeah it doesn't really affect them, but I guess their singles meta is as fucked up as random matchups in wifi in BW2, which is horrible since evasion is not banned on there

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:08:22 No.13609149 Report

Quoted By: >>13609168 >>13609346

>>13609087
>after a few days
So a pair of trolls appear and you said that is impossible. Of course after years of ban everyone is using it, faggots.
And haze is amazing at DT meta, that isn't terrible, or do you think 25 years of Game Freaks austist making games they don't realise how horrible it is? Are the people that made the game and earned money with it dumber that a bunch of kids at the internet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:10:12 No.13609168 Report

Quoted By: >>13609200 >>13609227

>>13609149
I... Don't understand your first sentence, can you repeat?
>haze is amazing at DT meta
I never said it wasn't, I explicitly said it was terrible in normal meta.
Also, GF focuses on in-game stuff, not competitive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:11:01 No.13609181 Report

Quoted By: >>13609197 >>13609265

>>13606799

I think this whole discussion is retarded because 95% of /vp/ don't even know what Smogon is, but

>are pitifully weak bar aura sphere
>nobody wants to waste a moveslot just for double team.

You DO realize those arguments hit way, WAY harder when applied against SR, right? RS is a joke in terms of strength and, considering elemental strengths, arguably worse than most guaranteed-hit moves. The only reason to run it is SR as well. Well, and Spikes, but you get Minimize on the evasion side as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:12:42 No.13609197 Report

Quoted By: >>13609284

>>13609181
But at least, with rapid spin, you're guaranteed to be rid of hazards, you're not forced to spam it for 10 turns, unlike Aerial Ace.
Besides, if you don't run six 4x weak to rock pokémon on a team, you don't need rapid spin, while you're FORCED to be able to counter double team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:12:59 No.13609200 Report

Quoted By: >>13609217

>>13609168
>your meta being the normal one
Keep believing this
> GF focuses on in-game stuff, not competitive
Keep believing this

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:13:39 No.13609211 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607145
That's because Volcarona has incredible balk and Roost along with Quiver Dance for even more special balk, not to mention the Flame Body ability which cripples physical attackers. Charizard goes into stealth rock, but also cant take a hit after. Dragonite is only fucked by stealth rock due to his multiscale ability being rendered useless now that he's at 75% health.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:14:09 No.13609217 Report

Quoted By: >>13609326

>>13609200
So, your only answer is "keep believing this"? Nice arguments, bro.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:14:52 No.13609227 Report

Quoted By: >>13609261

>>13609168
>GF focuses on in-game stuff, not competitive.
Isn't DT even more horribly broken in-game?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:17:19 No.13609261 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609227
With random opponents using odor sleuth, lock-on, and generally being a rare move since it's TM only (iirc) and is only unlocked late, I guess not as much as in competitive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:17:33 No.13609265 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609181
>you get Minimize on the evasion side as well
It's kind of redundant though. Maybe half a dozen evo lines learn it and every single one of them can learn DT as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:18:47 No.13609284 Report

Quoted By: >>13609302

>>13609197
>spam it for 10 turns, unlike Aerial Ace.
Your foe would expend 6 turns to raise its evasion, and if you want to expend only one turn you have clear amog and haze. Or you can use psych up, is funny.
Some pokemon could use the counter to another thing. And you are not forced to counter it, sometimes just put an usual counter pokemon in your team will prevent the use of DT.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:20:15 No.13609302 Report

Quoted By: >>13609374

>>13609284
>clear smog
can miss
>psych up
doesn't actually fix the problem though, only starts stall wars, and against something common like DT zapdos you'll lose
Also, when the other team has 6 DT pokémon, you can't possibly counter them all with one pokémon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:21:45 No.13609321 Report

Quoted By: >>13609400

Why even debate with a bunch of kids who don't play the meta?
DT is genuinely broken, almost every Pokemon can learn it and its counters are few and ineffective. SR helps keep powerhouses in check, has little distribution and an even amount of reliable counters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:22:06 No.13609326 Report

Quoted By: >>13609359

>>13609217
Im tired.
GF metagame is the only metagame, and smogon metagame is inferior because don't use some amazing things GF put there for a reason.
And if GF wouldn't focus on metagame we would still playing like in genI and would not be tournaments.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:23:37 No.13609346 Report

Quoted By: >>13609428

>>13609149
yeah because competitive pokemon is such a moneymaker LOL

everytime anybody tried an evasion etagame it failed miserably because it rendered the game unplayable and revolving entirely around luck factor

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:24:23 No.13609359 Report

Quoted By: >>13609428

>>13609326
Fun fact: nintendo actually reached out to smogon in gen 5 for the GBU 3v3 meta, and even adopted some of their rules (for example, soul dew ban)

The only tournament is VGC, and it's a doubles meta, so no, you can't compare at all, since there's no tournament for nintendo singles.
Yeah, spore spam is amazing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:25:08 No.13609374 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609302
Clear smog can't miss, fucker.
Psych don't "solve" anything because there is no reason to solve anithing. It gives 5 turns of never miss moves to them copy foe boost. So it gives you advantage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:27:48 No.13609400 Report

Quoted By: >>13609441

>>13609321
Smogon do no play pokemon meta, they use their one believing is the only one, and then cry because a real man win them using spore.
DT is not broken because have more counters than crabs a XVII century prostitute.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:30:26 No.13609428 Report

Quoted By: >>13610178 >>13610406

>>13609346
>luck factor
That word again, is statistics and strategy.
>>13609359
Spore abuse is shit and is a shame you don't know how to counter it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:31:38 No.13609441 Report

Quoted By: >>13609474

>>13609400
We've been through all the DT counters in this thread multiple times and described why they're inefficient/ useless. Pease read the thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:36:00 No.13609474 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609441
You think they are useless because are made for the real metagame, not for a kid copy of real one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:40:26 No.13609515 Report

Quoted By: >>13609541 >>13609614

Smogon's goal is explicitly to erase luck and turn it into a strategy-based game; if strategy employs a bit of luck (i.e., trading accuracy for power or a worthy side effect, or the lack of a negative side effect like Recoil, increased crit ratio moves, though those aren't very widely used)

Double team completely erases the strategy. and plus, it's not like you have to build any teams around it like you would something far more gimmicky like Sun. You can have literally anything that isn't Wobbuffet, Magikarp, or Ditto and +6 evasion and win, or have the opponent miraculously not miss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:42:48 No.13609539 Report

Quoted By: >>13609614

>>13607753
See

>>13607073

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:43:10 No.13609541 Report

Quoted By: >>13609623

>>13609515
tl;dr
Its not a matter of being broken; its a matter of being omnipresent and entirely luck based with no other redeeming boosts.

If DT had say, negative priority, and was exclusive to elusive or ninja-like Pokemon (Venomoth, Weavile, Accelgor, and whatnot) it wouldn't be banned. No one would even know it exists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:46:58 No.13609573 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607078
Look at all the replys~

hurts to be proven so wrong, doesn't it? Stealth Rock isn't that big of a deal. 3 layers of Spikes is a big fucking deal.

The biggest problem with SR is the reduction in OU Fire and flying types (because Stone Edge isn't a thing...) and thus the dominant fighting-types got even more dominant and crazy strong. But that meta is long gone, anyway, with the fall of Skarmory and re-return of 'Chomp

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:52:53 No.13609614 Report

Quoted By: >>13609688

>>13609515
A team pf six pokemon with double team without baton pass requires 36 turns to reach +6 boost to everyone. It don't works. So yes, you need a strategy using DT. And counter it is fucking easey as using haze.
>>13609539
Scizor with aerial ace or sacred sword eat blissey evasion. And Machamp, and Golurk. And lots of them.
And you said a few good gliscor counters.
If OU become Blissey and Gliscor move them to Ubers.
And why the fuck the only tier is OU? There are lots of awesome tiers fuckers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:53:50 No.13609622 Report

Quoted By: >>13609651 >>13609679

If DT was unbanned, competitive pokemon would be like playing rock, paper and scissors. People would start running double team teams, and in order to beat them, people would run dedicated anti-DT teams, but those teams would be weaker to regular teams as they're made to counter an specific strategy, thus making a weird triangle that'd be like this:

>DT teams < Anti DT teams
>Anti DT teams < regular teams
>regular teams < DT teams

Pretty bad if you ask me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:54:03 No.13609623 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609541
>i will able DT if i didn't have to counter it
confirmed for faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:57:04 No.13609651 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609622
Regulars teams did not exists. DT teams did not exists. And yes, DT teams don't exist.
You believe it because you don't use it. But seriously, everybody will use a mix team that can counter anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 23:59:58 No.13609679 Report

Quoted By: >>13609724

>>13609622
Rock, paper, scissors is the main game. That's why you have more than 1 pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:01:32 No.13609688 Report

Quoted By: >>13609914

>>13609614
If you band Blissey and Gliscor because evasion, then another thing capable of abuse (such as Garchomp, Dragonite or Breloom) arises, and when you band them, something else comes up, and in the end it was much easier to ban evasion as a whole on the first place.

And we're talking about OU because it's the most "standard" one, where everything is allowed but a handful of broken strategies and pokemon. But the lower the tier, the most broken DT is. NU and RU would practically get ruined if DT was legal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:05:03 No.13609724 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609679
It's rock, paper and scissor at a pokemon level, though, not at a team level.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:15:01 No.13609811 Report

Quoted By: >>13609914

PLAYING AGAINST EVASION SPAM ISN'T FUN

I DONT SEE WHY YOU FAGGOTS WANT IT SO MUCH

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:26:59 No.13609914 Report

Quoted By: >>13609933

>>13609688
Mi little pony eats Gliscor and Blissey.
And that's what means to be at competitive: things are hard.
>>13609811
PLAYING AGAINST SWEEPERS SPAM ISN'T FUN

I DONT SEE WHY YOU FAGGOTS WANT IT SO MUCH

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:27:24 No.13609918 Report

Quoted By:

Paulv2 please go back home

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:29:35 No.13609933 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609914
My little pony won't hit Gliscor if gliscor has sand veil up, bright powder on, and double team spamming. Gliscor can also sub, so if Pony ever hits it, it can just hide again. Whats the chance of two hydro pumps hitting in a row?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:29:57 No.13609938 Report

Quoted By:

It wouldn't make anything more viable, every Pokemon that can learn TMs can know Double Team, so it wouldn't make a shit Pokemon suddenly better than a good one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:30:13 No.13609941 Report

Quoted By:

PAULV2 PLEASE GO BACK HOME NO ONE CARES

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:32:11 No.13609971 Report

Quoted By: >>13609993 >>13610026 >>13610064 >>13610103

Why don't anti-smogon faggots just start their own metagame instead of expecting a community to adhere strictly to them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:34:26 No.13609993 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609971
I want to do it with Gen6

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:38:14 No.13610026 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609971
Because they're fucking retarded and don't know how.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:41:18 No.13610064 Report

Quoted By: >>13612982

>>13609971
Can't they just ignore Smogon and do what they want?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:45:33 No.13610103 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609971
Put yourself on their shoes, bro.

If you were a person who spends all day sitting while complaining about shit on the internet, and you are also a really bad pokemon player, do you think you'd have the will to do something like that?

Not only it'd take time an effort, and wasting time not being lazy, but also it means there's one thing less to complain about, not to mention they'd get frustrated because they'd fail. There's no way that'd be a solution to their problems.

I wish we could just ignore them...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 00:54:30 No.13610178 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609428
Yeah, it's strategy and skill for a fucking retard.
>set up Evasion
>they have no counter to evasion
>they desperately try to get a hit
>they get one hit
>it's not enough to kill
>keep mashing the button until someone dies
Yeah totally not luck based

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 01:07:49 No.13610277 Report

Quoted By:

You people really don't understand why Double Team would be retarded? It's an entire new element you have to think about in the metagame. Now, that wouldn't be a bad thing if it weren't distributed like fuck. You could be fighting someone with a Technician Scizor, so you're ready to hit him with a move that will do good damage against this specific set- and then BAM, Double Team comes out of nowhere and completely fixes your strategy so that it must now centralize over getting rid of Evasion boosts. Pokemon that relied on stuff like Fire Blast for good coverage moves have to revert back to weaker moves, defeating their purpose and utterly culling variation between moves because anything besides a STAB move won't do enough. When landing two hits becomes a challenge, it's just not fun any more. The whole factor of fun in Pokemon is knowing that you outsmarted your opponent and you get to reap the benefits of it, whether big or small. If Evasion were allowed, you would have entire teams based around Evasion simply because of the great edge it gives you. Sure, there are moves to counter Evasion, but they're so weak and useless in other situations that they're just not worth using.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 01:20:40 No.13610406 Report

Quoted By:

>>13609428
>statistics

there you go again

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 01:25:48 No.13610451 Report

Quoted By: >>13613266

This thread is so sickening
, its clear that its just one karenfag idiot who completes his pokedex in every gen and hasnt played one competitive game and thinks he knows about pokemon

anyone who has played 5 games of challenge cup knows how absolutely retarded evasion is

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:27:33 No.13611894 Report

Quoted By: >>13611947

double team battle are not ban you stupid you can double team battle with lots of pokemon
use move assist me and avoid thing like earthquake
over the centralize stroll is dugtrio he is fight

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1337967635874.png, 115KiB, 250x418

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:34:08 No.13611947 Report

Quoted By:

>>13611894

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1327567403599.png, 89KiB, 601x246

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:40:58 No.13611992 Report

Quoted By:

This argument needs to be settled on Showdown

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1377362278289.png, 131KiB, 644x365

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:42:25 No.13612007 Report

Quoted By: >>13614700

>Implying Acupressure isn't better

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 07:25:48 No.13612913 Report

Quoted By:

I think the issue here is not DT and minimize being overpowers persay but rather centralizing the meta too much. Since so far the comparison has been to stealth rocks lets use that. Usually a team has 1 SR user because while the effect is powerful its not so powerful that every mon wants it. Evasion boosters on the other hand are good on jsut about every single mon and it would be very easy to see a team with 5-6 DT/minimizers. I can just imgaine the crazy warped meta we would get with every mon running both DT as well as haze and/or a perfect accuracy move, until accuracy moves became so ubiquitous that people stopped using DT, and then someone realizes this and starts DTing again and the cycle continues. Their is nothing intrinsically wrong with this, it would just be boring and annoying. When games/ even competitive ones, get repetitive/boring/annoying people stop playing them and none of us want that.

Tl;dr: you can brute force through and ignore SR but DT warps the meta round it, that is the difference

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 07:34:49 No.13612939 Report

Quoted By:

>Why don't Smogon just unban Moody?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 07:43:43 No.13612965 Report

Quoted By: >>13612990 >>13613905 >>13614841

why cant we just use our favorites?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 07:44:52 No.13612972 Report

Quoted By: >>13612984

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXlAiKVwMpk

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 07:47:29 No.13612982 Report

Quoted By:

>>13610064
Well the issue is, if you want to run a 6 poke evasion team that's cool and all, but nobody wants to play against that. It's like that kid back in elementary school who would always unconditionally declare themselves the strongest in games of pretend.

See the problem is the only way to deal with said kid is to ignore him because playing games with him will quickly turn into who can "no you" harder or "I'm stronger infinite plus one" or other shit like that.

Hope that made any sense because it sounded a lot better in my head than typing it out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 07:47:58 No.13612984 Report

Quoted By:

>>13612972
sorry wrong link it was suppose to be this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1LRGRIw-6g

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 07:48:55 No.13612990 Report

Quoted By:

>>13612965
Because the game is is imbalanced.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 08:01:59 No.13613028 Report

Quoted By: >>13613641 >>13613754

>random match up
>I send out blissey
>opponent sends out gyarados
>use minimize
>disconnect

It's really rage inducing to some players seeing as the match will turn very luck based if they have no counters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 09:11:13 No.13613266 Report

Quoted By:

>>13610451
>not completing your Pokedex

hell I play competitive and completing your Pokedex is still a big deal. It's the whole point of the game. The pvp is just a nice addition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 11:23:56 No.13613641 Report

Quoted By:

>>13613028
>disconnecting is counts as a loss now

things are gonna be interesting to say the least

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 11:49:18 No.13613754 Report

Quoted By:

>>13613028
>implying minimize will save Blissey from a physical attacker like Gyarados
Even if he dragon dances first, he won't start missing before omae wa mou shindeiru.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 12:19:15 No.13613905 Report

Quoted By:

>>13612965
You can in Ubers, and most likely can in OU as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 14:50:50 No.13614700 Report

Quoted By:

>>13612007
link to replay?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 15:09:43 No.13614841 Report

Quoted By:

>>13612965
What are your favourites? I can tell you what tier you can play in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 23:20:21 No.13619231 Report

Quoted By: >>13619393 >>13619940

If they ban evasion because its luck based why do Smogon battle simulators not disable critical hits and even miss chances? Of course you'd need to alter moves power to account for them never missing but it removes the luck factor.

Players can win or lose a battle because a dice roll made them miss or cause their pokemon to hit itself or prevented it from attacking due to paralysis. The luck factor in Pokemon is too high to have a valid skill based competition with it, it's fun but its not a good measure of skill.

But seriously why do they get rid of that because it has dice rolls and not the thousands of other things that also have dice rolls? Especially when evasion has counters just like anything else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 23:42:11 No.13619393 Report

Quoted By: >>13619574

>>13619231
The luck factor isn't nearly as high.
It's a strategic risk, using fire blast instead of flamethrower, risking the chance of missing over the guaranteed higher power. It's calculated risk based on luck and if I happen to miss with a powerful move and the opponent gains the upper hand, I'm fine with that.
However, DT isn't like that. It becomes a game of luck where it's almost impossible to hit your opponent, and as you keep trying to hit, your chances keep getting lower and lower, and nobody wants to play like that.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 330px-St.jpg, 29KiB, 330x246

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 23:44:12 No.13619426 Report

Quoted By:

This entire thread makes me glad Showdown has a weighted match system.

I'd much rather face a good opponent in OU than some idiot who thinks "TEH SMOGUN" is keeping down their precious Charizard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 23:47:39 No.13619460 Report

Quoted By:

None of this would be a problem if GF made Pokemon able to learn 6 moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 23:58:23 No.13619574 Report

Quoted By: >>13620174

>>13619393
So use 100% accurate moves? Or keep on top of it with sweet scent? Complaining about missing while they spam double team is like bitching while using tackle on a steel type as it raises it's defense. You're using the wrong move in the wrong situation and its on you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:35:55 No.13619940 Report

Quoted By: >>13619998

>>13619231
Because it's still a SIMULATOR; it's meant to replicate the behaviour of the actual games as exactly as possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:39:30 No.13619998 Report

Quoted By: >>13620073

>>13619940
Except when it suits Smogon of course

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:47:35 No.13620073 Report

Quoted By: >>13620095 >>13620123

>>13619998
That being when?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:49:11 No.13620095 Report

Quoted By: >>13620146 >>13620155

>>13620073
banning..any moves..ever?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:51:35 No.13620123 Report

Quoted By: >>13620129 >>13620155

>>13620073
Pretty sure when I play Pokemon I can out several Pokemon to sleep. Shame they fail to simulate that correctly. Along with the ability to use double team. The simulator seems to struggle with that one too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:52:47 No.13620129 Report

Quoted By:

>>13620123
>Pretty sure when I play Pokemon I can out several Pokemon to sleep
Sleep clause was an actual thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:54:40 No.13620146 Report

Quoted By:

>>13620095
Those moves are still banned when they play on game carts too

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:55:22 No.13620155 Report

Quoted By:

>>13620095
>>13620123
>there are people this retarded

Clauses and rules are not the same as game mechanics

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:57:13 No.13620173 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607219
I know this is bait, but you only have to Rapid Spin once. You have to AA until you knock out the evading little faggot you're fighting. It forces every pokemon in the metagame to carry a counter. This essentially reduces it to a 3 slot metagame, which is incredibly stupid. You only have to have one rapid spinner, and they only usually have to spin once, unless you're retarded or your opponent runs rocks on all of their pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:57:16 No.13620174 Report

Quoted By:

>>13619574
Oh look, your pokemon with Sweet Scent just fainted, and would you look at that, they just sent in a steel type with Double Team. Good luck KOing it with those never-miss moves that are only slightly stronger than Tackle!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 00:58:22 No.13620185 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607270
This. I only run rapid spin because I run custap foretress and I really don't mind the added peace of mind over a coverage move that probably won't do shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:00:24 No.13620207 Report

Quoted By:

>>13606158

Yeah, rev up that aerial ace, I sure love my scyt-

>Stealth rock

Nevermind

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:05:32 No.13620253 Report

Quoted By:

In Ubers I have swept teams with Chansey, Gliscor, Shuckle and Magnezone by abusing evasion. The only issues I've had are boosting quickly enough to stall out Kyogre's attacks, and a case of 4 moveslot syndrome with Gliscor. And that's a tier where half the Pokemon there have Aura Sphere - imagine how OU would fare.

Abzu

Abzu Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:06:23 No.13620258 Report

Quoted By: >>13620277

Why is the smogon metagame so popular anyway? Just play official Nintendo rules and both of you faggots shut the fuck up already.
Item clause is the best clause known to man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:07:57 No.13620277 Report

Quoted By: >>13620742

>>13620258
Item clause is useless. I have yet to have multiples of an item anywhere near ruin my day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:09:40 No.13620293 Report

Quoted By: >>13620314

>>13607101
>Just fine as is

>Only 2 out of the 100 types that exist resist it
>Requires only 1 turn to set up for maximum efficiency
>Can take up to 50% of a pokemon's health if it's 4x weak to rock
>Ridiculously wide distribution, everything learns stealth rock
>So broken that literally every team can't afford to run it and to not have ways to counter it (only 1 way, shitty rapid spin)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:11:53 No.13620314 Report

Quoted By:

>>13620293
its not that hard to run a cleric spinner or other fusion setup where you get rapid spin on a pokemon who would otherwise run a weak coverage move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:40:12 No.13620554 Report

Quoted By: >>13620578

This entire argument makes no sense. It doesn't matter whether DT is overpowered or if its just another mechanic. The fact is a large amount of people don't think it's fun to fight against. Period. The people who want to use it should fuck off and fight other people that do. And the people who hate it should fuck off and play with Smogon's rules. Personally I prefer the latter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:42:24 No.13620578 Report

Quoted By: >>13620624 >>13620643

>>13620554
I don't think it's fun to fight against SR or weather teams, but I can't go around telling people they can't use them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:46:47 No.13620624 Report

Quoted By:

>>13620578
you're in the minority, congratulations, as a minority you don't have a voice in the system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:49:22 No.13620643 Report

Quoted By: >>13620690

>>13620578
But you can. You wouldn't have too many people to play with though because (as evidenced in the thread) more people dislike DT than Weather and Stealth Rocks.

More importantly Smogon doesn't say "you can't use DT". They say "You cant fight US with double team". People saying that Smogon should just get used to DT are really just trying to spoil other people's fun. And for what purpose?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 01:55:40 No.13620690 Report

Quoted By:

>>13620643
because a major symptom of autism is not caring for the thoughts and opinions of others

Abzu

Abzu Mon 02 Sep 2013 02:01:03 No.13620742 Report

Quoted By: >>13620771 >>13620774

>>13620277
Item clause means no leftovers life orb etc spam on everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 02:03:09 No.13620771 Report

Quoted By:

>>13620742
leftovers spam is easily countered by not doing 5% damage every turn.

Life Orb spam is easily countered by the same.

There aren't really gamebreaking items, and the only one that would really be annoying to see 6 of (focus sash) is something you can get in an ability anyway

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 02:03:41 No.13620774 Report

Quoted By:

>>13620742
>Life orb

It's not even that good

Proper stalling wrecks life orb users, they end up killing themselves

lv1dog

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tumblr_inline_mh0r7spxJ91qdq5zd.gif, 276KiB, 360x360

lv1dog Mon 02 Sep 2013 02:10:35 No.13620841 Report

Quoted By: >>13620926

>>13606128
Because Smogon likes their standard rock trading greeting before battles and something different like Double Team is ridiculously crazy broken unlike their hazzards or weather wars

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 02:19:45 No.13620926 Report

Quoted By: >>13620999 >>13621353

>>13620841
Hazards are not fucking OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 02:26:46 No.13620999 Report

Quoted By:

>>13620926
This. Unless you let someone set up rocks, 3 spikes, and 2 toxic spikes and then don't spin it away, in which case you're just bad at the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:08:14 No.13621353 Report

Quoted By: >>13621398 >>13621428

>>13620926
Use a flying type that isn't Skarmory and say that again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:12:15 No.13621381 Report

Quoted By:

>>13606128

>ferrothorn with Double Team
>Dragonite with Double Team
>GLISCOR WITH DOUBLE TEAM

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:13:19 No.13621391 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607034

They also have shit power and many pokemon dont even gain stab on them.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 2stronk4ou.png, 3KiB, 96x96

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:14:07 No.13621398 Report

Quoted By:

>>13621353

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO (laughs).png, 30KiB, 190x319

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:15:13 No.13621410 Report

Quoted By: >>13621430 >>13621499

Please, tell me any pokemon that can crack through a minimizing blissey with any of the no-miss moves they possess

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:17:34 No.13621428 Report

Quoted By:

>>13621353
I use a Hyper Cutter Gliscor @Flying Gem with acrobatics to revenge kill.
To bad he gets killed as soon as he revenge kills.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:17:44 No.13621430 Report

Quoted By: >>13621444 >>13621482 >>13621565

>>13621410
Machamp has No Guard. I guess every single team will have to use Machamp! HURRAY FOR OVERCENTRALIZATION!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:21:28 No.13621444 Report

Quoted By: >>13621482 >>13621565

>>13621430
so doesnt golurk, and hes got much higher attack too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:26:18 No.13621482 Report

Quoted By:

>>13621430
>>13621444
No Guard doesn't get over Double Team. Plus, Double Team Gliscor who could easily protect, toxic, and sub its way to killing your Golurk or Machamp. ice Punch or not. Gliscor is a huge poison heal physical tank.
I don't understand why people are defending this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:28:38 No.13621499 Report

Quoted By:

>>13621410
Machamp's Dynamic Punch
With No Guard every move is a no-miss move.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 31253537.jpg, 31KiB, 500x600

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:43:03 No.13621565 Report

Quoted By: >>13621608

>>13621430
>>13621444
>Fighting
>Ghost/Ground
If only there was a Dark/Flying type pokemon who could outspeed them and hit them both for SE damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Sep 2013 03:51:08 No.13621608 Report

Quoted By:

>>13621565
enjoy your ice punches all day

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches