/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #13608753

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Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:27:54 No.13608753 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13608764 >>13611433 >>13612204 >>13613462

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/696959-pokemon-x/67126758

I'd love vp to get in on the discussion

The thread's titled: Why using software/rng abuse to get legal stats isn't cheating.

Some fag compared pokemon to professional atheles

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:29:50 No.13608759 Report

Quoted By: >>13608771

I consider RNG abuse cheating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:30:11 No.13608764 Report

Quoted By:

>>13608753
>Gamefaqs
Stop right there OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:31:44 No.13608771 Report

Quoted By: >>13608799

>>13608759
It's cheating but not in a way that matters because it doesn't allow you to do anything outside the confines of the normal game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2013 22:34:09 No.13608799 Report

Quoted By:

>>13608771
Yes. But it's still cheating. It's not much different from PokeGenning a legal Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 01:38:28 No.13610567 Report

Quoted By:

If you're just going to sit there and RNG abuse the game until you get the result you want why not just save yourself some time and Pokegen it? The only difference is the amount of time wasted ultimately.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 03:21:00 No.13611433 Report

Quoted By: >>13612199

>>13608753
>>13608753
Haven't you heard League of Legends are now called Pro Athletes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 03:33:07 No.13611547 Report

Quoted By:

Of course RNG is cheating, lol. You're using a foreign program to get powerful and possibly advantageous Pokémon ingame. It's just a dumb way to cheat though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:02:33 No.13611728 Report

Quoted By: >>13611817

Going around and getting a pokemon with the right ability, IV's, and then training it with the perfect EV's isn't something you have to do that'll make you a better trainer or battler. The only thing it does is wastes your time.

It isn't cheating.
It's a shortcut.
And that is okay because skill doesn't come from wasting your time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:07:38 No.13611758 Report

Quoted By: >>13611789

It's not the intended way to do things, and if you're doing things in ways they were not intended to be done, it's cheating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:10:36 No.13611789 Report

Quoted By: >>13611801 >>13611802

>>13611758
Right... That's why combos in Street Fighter are cheating... That's why the movie Money Ball revolves around cheating... That's why the fumbleroosky is cheating...

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:12:12 No.13611796 Report

Quoted By:

RNG abuse is cheating.

That doesn't necessarily make it wrong but you have to decide for yourself what makes the game fun for you. Whether that's no cheating mild cheating or straight up pokegenning. Whatever is most fun for you do it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:13:07 No.13611801 Report

Quoted By: >>13611846

>>13611789
I'm pretty sure combos were intended to be used... course, I've never played Street Fighter.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:13:15 No.13611802 Report

Quoted By: >>13611846

>>13611789
>combos in SF
>not intended

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:15:02 No.13611817 Report

Quoted By: >>13611846

>>13611728
>Cutting through the path in a race isn't cheating its just a shortcut. Only an idiot would run the whole race when I can just take a shortcut and get to the finish line.
You understand how stupid you sound right?

RNG abuse is cheating. If you feel its justified then fine but its still cheating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:16:11 No.13611826 Report

Quoted By:

RNG abuse is pretty obviously cheating. But that's not necessarily bad. Personally, though, I feel like if you're going to use RNG abuse, you might as well just use pokegen and save yourself even more time. As long as you do it right there's no apparent difference between legal, hacked Pokemon and Pokemon created within the game itself (including those that were RNG abused into being created).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:18:49 No.13611846 Report

Quoted By: >>13611974

>>13611802
>>13611801
I hope you're kidding... Street Fighter II.... Combos were bugs in the games, never intended to be used by players.
http://www.1up.com/features/street-fighter-ii-things-you-did-not-know

>>13611817
Pokemon isn't a 'race.' You aren't better than anyone else because you get better pokemon before them. Pokemon is about skill. It's about being strategic when making your team.
Do you understand how dumb you are?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:31:25 No.13611919 Report

Quoted By:

I don't see how it hurts anyone. The skill in competitive play is your team composition and move selection. Your ability in breeding, EV-training, etc. is NOT what's being tested. If it's cheating, it's cheating at something that's completely irrelevant to who wins, so I don't see why it matters. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the Pokemon is actually obtainable through legitimate means, I don't care how you got it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:37:55 No.13611974 Report

Quoted By: >>13611997 >>13612052

>>13611846
The creators of the game intend for you to have to put effort into breeding. You're still cutting out an intended portion of the game in favor of just competitive battling. Pokemon is an rpg not a battle simulator.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:41:01 No.13611994 Report

Quoted By:

Fuck their intentions; it's my game so I'll do how I damn well please.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:41:11 No.13611997 Report

Quoted By: >>13612020

>>13611974

So then you agree that in particular competitions that ARE based solely around the competitive battling aspect, the breeding aspect is irrelevant?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:44:07 No.13612020 Report

Quoted By:

>>13611997
In a completely different game/program (showdown) yes it obviously isn't cheating because the intended purpose of showdown is to cut out all the breeding bullshit.

In the actual carts though it's cheating to completely cut out part of the game because you don't like it. I don't care that you do it but its still cheating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:47:59 No.13612052 Report

Quoted By: >>13612091

>>13611974
Yeah, but they also intend on a portion of the game being random for the sake of having the gameplay to being random any time you reset the game. NOT so that competitive play is based off of small random values that end up screwing someone out of a win because they weren't 'lucky enough.'

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:49:52 No.13612063 Report

Quoted By: >>13612090 >>13612094

>playing the game without altering save data with an outside program is considered cheating

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:52:54 No.13612090 Report

Quoted By: >>13612147

>>13612063

yep. so many butthurt scrubtrainers think that RNG 'touches' your game

it's like analyzing trends in the stock market to better guess when to buy in/get out. no shenanigans, just math and statistics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:53:04 No.13612091 Report

Quoted By: >>13612147

>>13612052
Just because you don't like part of the game being random doesn't mean manipulating it isn't cheating. You can justify it but it is still cheating.

People cheat/break the rules/law for justifiable reasons all the time and they often aren't punished but that doesn't mean that the action of cheating never took place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:53:34 No.13612094 Report

Quoted By: >>13612109 >>13612123 >>13612147

>>13612063
Manipulating the game in ways that couldn't be done without the assistance of an outside program is definitely cheating.
I'd even go so far as to say that it's on a higher level of cheating than abusing a glitch, but that's pretty subjective.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:55:42 No.13612109 Report

Quoted By: >>13612154

>>13612094
THIS JUST IN

It's ok to dupe Pokemon and items but god forbid you use a computer program and a timer to get strong, shiny Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:57:43 No.13612123 Report

Quoted By: >>13612154

>>13612094
So if I used a calculator to figure out what damage my next attack would do, would that be considered cheating?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 04:59:47 No.13612145 Report

Quoted By:

>You disagree with that? Guess what? Your wrong.

/vp/ in a nutshell

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 05:00:37 No.13612147 Report

Quoted By: >>13612166

>>13612094
Manipulating the game with math? Okay.... When you get X/Y, don't cheat by looking up what attacks do or where to find pokemon or items. In fact, don't even look at the map of Kalos anymore. All of that is cheating.

>>13612090
EXACTLY.

>>13612091
Just because you don't like that people use math and statistics doesn't mean it is cheating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 05:00:56 No.13612154 Report

Quoted By: >>13612166

>>13612109
I didn't say it was wrong, just that it's cheating. I'm sorry you feel that way, though.

>>13612123
You could easily figure that out on your own. The level of math it takes to get the results most people use RNG for are well beyond what most people would be willing to do.

Technically, looking up what to do next in a game because they're stuck online could be considered "cheating" to some people. But it's so insignificant that hardly anyone cares.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 05:02:41 No.13612166 Report

Quoted By: >>13612191

>>13612147
See my last line of >>13612154
Plenty of people DO consider that cheating. But there's different levels, you know? Not every sin is bringing you straight to hell, no matter what priests tell you. And I use Pokegen anyway, so I'm pretty damned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 05:04:47 No.13612178 Report

Quoted By:

I would say RNG abuse is akin to counting cards in poker. Whereas pokegen is more like rigging decks as a dealer or "keeping cards up your sleeves."

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 05:06:05 No.13612191 Report

Quoted By: >>13613358

>>13612166
yet another moron who doesn't know the ins and outs of RNG -- if you PokeGen (even worse 'cheating'), you have no say.

the level of math involved is pathetically simple but tedious, calculators were made so that you don't have to do the math (just like IRL!)

-- someone who actually knows about RNG

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 05:06:47 No.13612198 Report

Quoted By:

RNG abuse is like winning at a claw machine, it's not cheating if you figure out how the machine works it's just not wasting time. I personally hack legal pokes which is kinda cheating, but not within the confines of a battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 05:06:50 No.13612199 Report

Quoted By:

>>13611433
Only in America

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 05:07:47 No.13612204 Report

Quoted By:

>>13608753
>Comparing Pokemon to professional athletes. Lel
Was that you OP?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 09:22:36 No.13613289 Report

Quoted By: >>13613358

You know, even if it is "cheating", I think it's worth asking whether or not cheating in that aspect is even bad at all.

It's more comparable to using a cheating device IRL to make sure your pencil never runs out of lead while taking a test; it's a shortcut to something that has absolutely no affect whatsoever on the end-game of a battle.

Competitive pokemon isn't about the act of training or finding the pokemon. It's about the actual strategy in the battle. RNGing for a pokemon with a good nature and good IVs has no affect on that battle, because in the end, both trainers will have that pokemon. RNGing just makes it happen quicker. So why is that bad at all? It doesn't give you an advantage over another player in the field of battle.

It'd be different if finding and training the pokemon was a game of skill, but it's absolutely just a game of luck. Hell, it's hardly even a "game".. it's just waiting for the paint to dry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 09:42:13 No.13613358 Report

Quoted By:

>>13613289
That's pretty much the way I see it; you're cheating the single-player game, but not the competition.

tbh I would probably be more against it if it weren't for Hidden Power, since for the most part you can breed practically perfect Pokémon without RNGing, but if you want a specific Hidden Power then you're pretty screwed.

>>13612191
Not that guy, but just putting it out there that I've RNG'd dozens of things and have formal education on how random number generators work, and I fail to see how somebody not knowing what the algorithms are like is relevant to whether or not it's cheating. Whether you calculate them on a computer or by hand (which I doubt anybody has ever done except maybe to check the algorithm), you're still doing the same operations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 09:48:19 No.13613372 Report

Quoted By: >>13613489

>gamefaqs
>saying "lel"
so that's why /vp/ posting quality has been shit lately, gamefaqs shit tier posters have been invading

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 10:02:57 No.13613402 Report

Quoted By:

Is anyone here Australian? Because I feel like RNG manipulation and the Essendon drug scandal are very similar.
For those who don't know, Essendon are an AFL team that were involved in an experimental injections regime that resulted in them banned from the finals series (plus fines and senior official bannings), even though the substances they used weren't technically illegal.
I feel like RNG is something very similar; you're pushing the boundaries of the game and what is legal/illegal. I consider RNG not cheating, but I can understand why people have issues with it.

youre falling for it

youre falling for it Sun 01 Sep 2013 10:16:55 No.13613462 Report

Quoted By:

>>13608753
video gamers have athlete status now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 10:26:59 No.13613479 Report

Quoted By:

So RNG is cheating because you are using something outside of the game to get something in the game, Wouldn't that mean that using serebii or bulbapedia would be cheating too (if used for things in game at least)?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 10:32:20 No.13613489 Report

Quoted By:

>>13613372
I sometimes go there to check for news, and I've seen people trying to green text there.

I don't know why but it pisses me off.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 Sep 2013 11:17:30 No.13613616 Report

Quoted By:

It really depends on your definition of cheating.

Personally, I draw the line at using software or devices that affect your game directly, such as Action Replay or PokéGen. RNG manipulation software is more like a really, really advanced and specific strategy guide.

That said, I think it's a dick move to abuse the fact that the games can't generate truly random numbers.

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