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Pokemon Creation Thread

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 04:56:20 No.13687278 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13687292 >>13689503 >>13689549 >>13689688 >>13689819 >>13689880 >>13690010 >>13690205

Why is it that every new gen has to have a new creation story?

It was believed that Mew was the first pokemon that started the world.

So why is it that 10-11 years after the original creation, GF needed to claim Arceus was the "god pokemon" that created the world.

I think it's important to know what really happened, because that could really enrich the storyline of the last Pokemon game,

What the hell happened, /vp/?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 04:58:25 No.13687292 Report

Quoted By: >>13690519

>>13687278
Arceus created mew who shares DNA with all Pokémon. This basically implies that Arceus created and controls the universe while Mew created all Pokémon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 05:00:07 No.13687302 Report

Quoted By: >>13687308

>every generation
>happened once

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 05:01:25 No.13687308 Report

Quoted By: >>13687316 >>13689645

>>13687302

Well there's shit on how Ho-Oh and Lugia were the "guardians" or whatever and how Groudon and Kyogre controlled the land and sea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 05:02:17 No.13687314 Report

Quoted By:

I'm pretty sure it was widely known that new was the first Pokemon that arceus made

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 05:02:57 No.13687316 Report

Quoted By:

>>13687308
They aren't creators though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 13:30:00 No.13689503 Report

Quoted By: >>13689520 >>13689645

>>13687278
Its like how every country or whatever has their own origin myth gamefreak is making fun of how everyone thinks they've got it all figured out just like everyone else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 13:32:55 No.13689520 Report

Quoted By: >>13689535 >>13689645

>>13689503
the logical conclusion of that is that they're not canon either, and Arceus is just a crazy powerful mofo

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 13:36:32 No.13689535 Report

Quoted By: >>13689645

>>13689520
exactly

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 13:41:23 No.13689548 Report

Quoted By:

Mew's Pokédex entries:
"Because it is able to use every move, there are many scientists who believe that it is the ancestor of all Pokémon."
>scientists believe
Arceus's Pokédex entries:
"It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms."
>It is described in mythology

It must be awful living in a world where mythology and science don't match up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 13:41:38 No.13689549 Report

Quoted By:

>>13687278
>It was believed that Mew was the first pokemon that started the world.
No game ever said this. As usual, fans make shit up.

Also, ancestor =/= creator. Adam and Eve are humanity's ancestors but they didn't create it. The archeopteryx is today's bird's ancestor, but they didn't create it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 13:43:19 No.13689555 Report

Quoted By: >>13689580

but if arceus made the universe who made arceus?
>/x/ trollface.jpg

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 13:48:33 No.13689580 Report

Quoted By:

>>13689555

Masuda.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 13:51:38 No.13689596 Report

Quoted By:

Are all of you retarded? There never was a single retcon...
Mew shares the DNA of all Pokémon and thus it was BELIEVED to be the ANCESTOR (not creator you idiots) of all Pokémon. This story has always been connected to the researchers having caught Mew, which obviously have never seen a truely mythical legendary Pokémon (since there are none in Kanto besides Mew and since even in countries where there are some, they are so fucking rare basically no one has ever seen them let alone taking a DNA example of them). That's reason #1 there is no contradiction: Mew has only ever been said to share the DNA of all RESEARCHED Pokémon.
Arceus created the fucking universe from scratch. Also, it created Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, and the lake trio. It did NOT create Mew. Mew evolved like basically any life form besides very few Pokémon (see above). It just happened to be the first life form fitting the definition and having the qualities of a Pokémon. The number #2 reason there is no contradiction: Arceus and the dragon trio all exist outside of our time-space continuum. The notion of being the "first" or "coming before" anything in our world doesn't make any sense. They simple don't have a temporal relation to things in our universe. And as the lake trio were created with the universe but stayed in an egg until humans developed (i.e. much later than when the first Pokémon developed), Mew could still be the first Pokémon of all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:00:28 No.13689645 Report

Quoted By:

On a side note...

>>13687308
First of all, they were only guardians in the sense that they were powerful creatures which happened to live there. The actual "elements" Ho-oh and Lugia represent are change and tradition respectively. (These are also the main themes of GSC.)

>>13689503
>>13689520
>>13689535
Arceus' story and power was pretty much confirmed in HGSS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:05:49 No.13689688 Report

Quoted By: >>13690123

>>13687278
/vp/ we've been over this
reality bender =/= God

arceus may have men worshiped by ancient people but that doesn't make it a god
just a really powerful pokemon
and as to whom came first probably neither of them

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:07:51 No.13689701 Report

Quoted By: >>13689805

if you're looking for plot continuity in Pokemon games, you're barking up the wrong tree. the plot is almost totally irrelevant to the gameplay so there's no reason to keep it straight in these games.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:19:30 No.13689785 Report

Quoted By:

Because game freak are retards that took legendarys from being rare pokemon with some ethereal qualities often found in east asian folklore (being guardians of the forest etc) in gen 1 and 2.
To being forces of nature tied to the continued functioning of the world in gen3 which in turn meant they wrote themselves into a corner and were forced to continually up the ante in subsequent gens.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:22:44 No.13689805 Report

Quoted By: >>13689809

>>13689701
Actually they don't interfere with one another.

Arceus may have created the Universe, but doesn't necessarily mean created the Pokemon we know today. It could have created the Mew to which the Pokemon came from.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:23:43 No.13689809 Report

Quoted By:

>>13689805
This really.

Most people who have problem with this tend to be those who only view Arceus in a Western POV. People associate Arceus as "God" when in fact fits more of the various Eastern creator god myths.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:25:55 No.13689819 Report

Quoted By:

>>13687278
>looking for meaning in a storyline that is retconned every year
pls

Calm_Gardevoir !ohBaXKSpsE

Calm_Gardevoir !ohBaXKSpsE Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:34:16 No.13689880 Report

Quoted By: >>13689894

>>13687278

Maybe if you knew something about the Shinto creation myth, this inconsistency, which it isn't, would make sense to you. Basically, Arceus just created all these deity pokemon and said, "do my work for me!"

A LOT of the legendaries in pokemon directly align with the deities in Shinto folkore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_creation_myth

See?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:36:19 No.13689894 Report

Quoted By: >>13689932

>>13689880
A bunch of people who compre Mew and Arceus tend to be ignorant folks who think all religions are monotheistic.

Calm_Gardevoir !ohBaXKSpsE

Calm_Gardevoir !ohBaXKSpsE Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:41:47 No.13689932 Report

Quoted By: >>13689947

>>13689894

True. I honestly believe most of the confusion comes about because most Christians are only exposed to the Abrahamic faiths... maybe Hinduism/Buddhism; and Hinduism is quazi-monotheistic to begin with. Almost none of them have any exposure to Animistic faiths, such as Shintoism.

So, they assume and jump about.

Recently, I attended a Mythology and Pokemon panel at a convention headed by a guy with a doctorate in anthropology. When he compared Arceus to Amenominakanushi, a large portion of the audience was surprised and angered. I laughed. Didn't learn much at the panel, though. Shame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:43:58 No.13689947 Report

Quoted By: >>13689970

>>13689932
Why would they be mad?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:46:41 No.13689967 Report

Quoted By:

>Why is it that every new gen has to have a new creation story?

Every gen doesn't have that?

Calm_Gardevoir !ohBaXKSpsE

Calm_Gardevoir !ohBaXKSpsE Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:47:10 No.13689970 Report

Quoted By: >>13689993

>>13689947

Because what the doctor had to say flew in the face of their preconceptions and firmly held beliefs. They're the type of people you find on the poketheism subleddit. You try to bring up the fact that they're trying to fit a pantheistic, animistic religion into the trappings of a monotheistic religion, they get really upset and defensive about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:49:20 No.13689993 Report

Quoted By: >>13690137

>>13689970
>pokethism

Oh, so that explains it, the whole church of Arceus shit.

I'm more surprised that they're shocked - somehow they forgot Pokemon is a Japanese game and has a tendency to put Eastern stuff in it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:51:44 No.13690010 Report

Quoted By:

>>13687278
What if X/Y gave more backstory on mew and the cloning experiments since mewtwo has that mega form now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 14:52:04 No.13690013 Report

Quoted By: >>13690141 >>13690158

Mew - Pokemon
Arceus - Universe/Everything
Kyogre - Water
Groudon - Land
RayQuaza - Sky
Dialga - Time
Palkia - Space
Giratina - Antimatter

I'm missing a bunch, I know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:01:56 No.13690123 Report

Quoted By: >>13690147

>>13689688
>Pokemon has godlike power
>Is shown demonstrating this power in the games
I-it's not a real god guys, it's just really strong

It doesn't matter if they punch shit into existence or bend the flow of time and space with karate kicks or not, they were worshipped as gods because of their powers, and they actually have and can use those powers, therefore they are gods

Calm_Gardevoir !ohBaXKSpsE

Calm_Gardevoir !ohBaXKSpsE Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:03:08 No.13690137 Report

Quoted By:

>>13689993

Americans are generally stupid when to other cultures, what can I say?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:03:14 No.13690141 Report

Quoted By: >>13690158

>>13690013
I never got Rayquaza
Wouldn't the sky just exist by default?
Unless it made the air and shit too

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:03:44 No.13690147 Report

Quoted By: >>13690193

>>13690123
He means God as in Western religions God, not god as a deity/being.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:04:57 No.13690158 Report

Quoted By: >>13690177

>>13690013
Sprites - emotion, willpower and knowledge
Darkrai - nightmare
Cresselia - dreams

>>13690141
It can control the weather and climate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:06:30 No.13690177 Report

Quoted By: >>13690191

>>13690158
Well yeah I get that, but it doesn't really match up with the other two in the trio, and it bothers me

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:07:49 No.13690191 Report

Quoted By:

>>13690177
Climate has adverse effects on continents and seas, mind you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:08:08 No.13690193 Report

Quoted By: >>13690213

>>13690147
No, he meant god as in "Something that doesn't exist because gods can't exist"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:09:35 No.13690205 Report

Quoted By:

>>13687278
>started the world

That was never said about mew, kiddo, stop being a faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:11:30 No.13690213 Report

Quoted By: >>13690280

>>13690193
I think he was just conflating the statement that "people worship Arceus therefore he is Abrahamic God" or something.

This is why I prefer the term deity more. Stupid people trademarking the word god for their monotheist being.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:20:28 No.13690280 Report

Quoted By: >>13690289

>>13690213
He said it's not a god, it's just really powerful, that really has nothing to do with the abrahamic god or monotheistic religions
It's taking things an atheist would think, about pretty much any belief system, and thinking those things still make sense in the pokemon universe

It's like how people today can say that ancient people/things that were thought to be deities or magic or whatever were really just normal or slightly abnormal shit, that were greatly exaggerated over time, and that argument would have merit, just not in the pokemon universe

Sorry if that doesn't make any sense or sounds retarded, I've been up for the past 26 hours

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:21:41 No.13690289 Report

Quoted By:

>>13690280
Ahh now I get you. Yeah that idea is retarded. I thought he was simply arguing that Arceus isn't God but something like Vishnu or the world egg.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:33:59 No.13690397 Report

Quoted By: >>13690407 >>13690418 >>13690456

What the fuck is wring with you idiots? Pokemon is about discovery and finding out the secrets of pokemon. Remember Professor Elm and Oak sharing discoveries? It's not rocket surgery

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:35:05 No.13690407 Report

Quoted By:

>>13690397
Wrong*
Since the context is so lost without this correction for you grammar fags

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:36:39 No.13690418 Report

Quoted By:

>>13690397
Rocket Surgery is actually fairly easy
It's far faster than normal surgery

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:39:28 No.13690446 Report

Quoted By:

Arceus reconnected Mew, deal with it

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:40:25 No.13690456 Report

Quoted By: >>13690495

>>13690397
Rocket surgery

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:44:01 No.13690495 Report

Quoted By:

>>13690456
>Doctor, would you care to assist me in performing surgery on a torpedo?

Close enough

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:46:17 No.13690519 Report

Quoted By:

>>13687292

Dialga, Palkia and Giratina predate Mew.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 15:58:36 No.13690632 Report

Quoted By: >>13690686

>lookup mew on bulbapedia
>mews role for the 1st movie was changed for the western version a bit.

hurrr dumb piggu amerikans why you so confused.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 16:04:28 No.13690686 Report

Quoted By:

>>13690632
>People thinking the anime is canon in the games
That's even worse

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 16:05:32 No.13690697 Report

Quoted By:

the same reason different parts of the world have different creation stories.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Sep 2013 16:12:29 No.13690763 Report

Quoted By:

>doubting the anime isn't 90% of the perception people have of mew.

it makes it hard to ignore when the first episode shows the gameboy intro literally transforming into the anime.

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