/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #13715337

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:31:11 No.13715337 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13715342 >>13715345 >>13715838 >>13715881 >>13717325 >>13718119 >>13718559

YFW sneaky pebbles get a major nerf in gen 6.
Seriously though, how do we fix stealth rock. It's broken and it's forced everyone to work the metagame around it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:32:37 No.13715342 Report

Quoted By: >>13715354 >>13715404

>>13715337

Rock type Pokemon 'absorb' Stealth Rock on entry like Poison types do with Toxic Spikes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:32:57 No.13715345 Report

Quoted By: >>13715352 >>13715381

>>13715337
Well, I usually just shrug the little damage off and avoid using flying, fire, ice and/or bug types

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:33:12 No.13715346 Report

Quoted By:

Stealth rock does not take into account SE/NVE but does a set amount of damage
OR does take into account SE/NVE but disappears after the switch

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:34:41 No.13715352 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715345
>avoid using flying, fire, ice and/or bug types

Well that is what he meant with "work the metagame around it"

I don't fully agree, but that is what he said. And SR has indeed fucked some pokemon over (like Charizard)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:35:24 No.13715354 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715342
This could work.
I feel like the mechanic is good on paper, because flying types have immunity to spikes and ground type moves.
Maybe GF should make it so stealth rock only lasts for a set amount of turns, maybe 5 or so?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:36:26 No.13715369 Report

Quoted By: >>13715380 >>13718945

Damage done to Pokémon not Charizard halved.

Damage done to Charizard doubled.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:37:52 No.13715380 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715369
More like the other way around. Charizard is the ultimate Pokemon, remember.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:37:58 No.13715381 Report

Quoted By: >>13715413 >>13716398

>>13715345
The point is that one move shouldn't harshly punish some types just for switching in. It means that players avoid using some types just because stealth rocks exists.
It means pokemon like Vespiquen, Charizard, Articuno and even Volcarona can be a liability to have in your team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:40:52 No.13715396 Report

Quoted By: >>13718238

Keep Stealth Rocks the same but introduce other attacks and/or abilities that would get rid of them
Or even just have Rapid Spin as a TM or something so more Pokemon could learn the move

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:43:52 No.13715404 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715342
Give them a special defense boost as well

Yes, tyranitar on all teams

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:45:38 No.13715413 Report

Quoted By: >>13715431

>>13715381
The whole point of SR's dominace is the fact it punishes constant switching, heavy damage or not. That and it hits flying/levitate, so a damage nerf /might/ help the first three.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:49:38 No.13715430 Report

Quoted By: >>13715441

Rock types break SR upon entry.

Damage cap of 25% on entry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:49:56 No.13715431 Report

Quoted By: >>13715700 >>13720119

>>13715413
Spikes also punishes switching and it is far more balanced then SR. All it needs is a damage nerf, make it disappear after it first causes damage, or make it last a set amount of turns.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:52:32 No.13715441 Report

Quoted By: >>13715487 >>13719738

>>13715430
Or would it make more sense for steel-types to break SR on entry. As steel naturally breaks rock.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:52:39 No.13715443 Report

Quoted By: >>13715450

Levitating Pokemon should be immune to entry hazards.

Flying Pokemon should take damage from entry hazards, but also clear them from the field when switched in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 10:54:28 No.13715450 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715443
I kind of liked it when flying type's gimmick was that it wasn't affected by entry hazards. But then pokes like gyarados wrecked shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 11:03:11 No.13715487 Report

Quoted By: >>13715559

>>13715441
>metagross on every team
Excellent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 11:17:42 No.13715554 Report

Quoted By: >>13715574 >>13715790 >>13717689

One of the so-far-reliable Pokebeach leaks said there would be dual-type moves... perhaps Spikes will be retyped to Steel/Ground, Stealth Rocks to Rock/Ground, and Poison Spikes to Poison/Ground. Total Flying/Levitate immunity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 11:18:44 No.13715559 Report

Quoted By: >>13716264

>>13715487
>implying that isn't already the case

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 11:23:04 No.13715574 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715554
I know this won't happen but...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 11:40:27 No.13715651 Report

Quoted By:

Rock throw now puts SR on your side to the opponents side.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 11:58:04 No.13715700 Report

Quoted By: >>13720119

>>13715431
Spikes only affects pokemon on the ground. Flying types completely avoid them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:14:14 No.13715768 Report

Quoted By: >>13715849

They introduce Stealth Flames or/and Stealth Icicles or/and Stealth Sparks

There, entry hazards for most types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:17:49 No.13715790 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715554
>Charizard is saved
>Almost every other fire type becomes Charizard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:22:27 No.13715817 Report

Quoted By:

Stealth Rocks only works for a certain amount of turns. 5 to 8 turns would be a nice amount.

>The foes Stealth Rocks have faded away!

_

Evasion mechanic is fixed - Boosted evasion is reset at the start of turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:28:40 No.13715838 Report

Quoted By: >>13715872

>>13715337
Just give them a ticking counter.

Stealth Rock now places 3 rocks on the field. So the next 3 switches will be damage on switch to the enemy. Using stealth rock again will only refresh the counter up to 3 as a max.

If we said the average damage a single stealth rock switch does is about 18% damage, this puts this one move at doing about 54% damage. I'd say that is more than fair for a fire and forget type of move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:29:54 No.13715844 Report

Quoted By:

Have SR do normal damage with a base power that scales based on the level of its user, instead of by percentage. Not affected by typing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:30:03 No.13715845 Report

Quoted By:

They don't need to nerf Stealth Rock, they simply need to limit the number of Pokemon that can learn it.

The real cause of Stealth Rocks' prevalence is that everything and its mother can learn it. If SR were limited to mostly Rock and Ground types, then it wouldn't be an automatic inclusion on every team.

Of course cross-generation transfers make this pretty impossible for Gen 6, but distribution is the move's real problem, not its power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:32:13 No.13715849 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715768
>the main complaint about SR is that it makes Fire, Bug and Flying types largely unasable
>your solution is to introduce other entry hazards that make further types largely unuasable

I'm sure going to enjoy losing 25%-50% HP on every single Pokemon I switch in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:35:41 No.13715858 Report

Quoted By: >>13715891

Stealth Rock should only trigger on manual switches. It shouldn't trigger when a Pokemon is forced to switch out by something like Roar, and it shouldn't trigger when a Pokemon's been knocked out and a new Pokemon has to be brought into the field of play.

Also, typeless damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:38:23 No.13715872 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715838
Make it 2 turns and we are golden.

Want to ensure you have entry hazards? Work for it, you botch ass SR'ers

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:40:03 No.13715881 Report

Quoted By: >>13715896 >>13715920 >>13716046

>>13715337
Just halve their damage.
Now post your reaction when Charizard is still a piece of shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:41:08 No.13715888 Report

Quoted By:

ITT: People that have no idea how the metagame works.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:41:32 No.13715891 Report

Quoted By: >>13715901

>>13715858
Whirlwind and Roar should clear the entry hazards. Flying moves like Gust, Hurricane should clear the field.

Come on GF

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:42:04 No.13715896 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715881
>halve

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:42:05 No.13715897 Report

Quoted By: >>13715901

Add SR variations for every type in the game, also make them all stack. Rapid Spin only takes one layer at a time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:42:38 No.13715901 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715897
You fucking madman.

>>13715891
Also Vacuum Wave

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:42:56 No.13715904 Report

Quoted By: >>13716036 >>13716065

>Give Magic Bounce to more pokemon than just Dream Word Natu and Espeon

bye pebbles

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:46:29 No.13715920 Report

Quoted By: >>13715942

>>13715881
Except Charizard is underrated here at /vp/ and it would do well without the SR weakness, potentially UU or even OU with mega form

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:50:18 No.13715942 Report

Quoted By: >>13715954

>>13715920
Let's not get ahead of ourselves: Charizard is RU at best without SR.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:53:13 No.13715954 Report

Quoted By: >>13715983

>>13715942
Everyone says this, but in my experience, a choice scarfed solar power Charizard is OP with no SR on the field.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:56:39 No.13715983 Report

Quoted By: >>13716026

>>13715954
Until someone switches in Politoed or something with Rain Dance that won't get OHKO'd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 12:58:54 No.13716004 Report

Quoted By:

An ability that clears the field of entry hazards upon switching.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:01:24 No.13716026 Report

Quoted By: >>13716083 >>13716084 >>13716089

>>13715983
>Solarbeam
>Flamethrower
>Dragon Pulse
>Focus Blast
Name something that won't be OHKO'd by one of these assuming Solar Power boost.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:02:38 No.13716036 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715904
>What is Mega Absol

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:04:27 No.13716046 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715881
This is by far the most realistic thing that could happen, and probably the only one I'd like to see.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:06:18 No.13716065 Report

Quoted By: >>13716083

>>13715904
>Give Magic Bounce to more pokemon

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:10:26 No.13716083 Report

Quoted By:

>>13716026
Slowbro, Mantine, Dusknoir, Tentacruel. Not to mention that Charizard is easier to revenge kill and Rain is the dominant weather in the metagame.

>>13716065
Espeon went up a tier with Magic Bounce. Imagine how popular a Pokemon with better defensive stats and a reliable form of recovery would be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:10:28 No.13716084 Report

Quoted By: >>13716110 >>13718872

>>13716026

Dragonite, Blissey, Chansey, Victini, Rotom-H, Tentacruel, Gyarados, Meloetta, Ninetales, Chandelure, Heatran, Moltres, Togekiss, Cresselia, Garchomp, Snorlax, Latias, Porygon2, Jellicent, Zapdos, Wobbuffet, Kyurem-B, Latios, Scrafty, Empoleon, Mr. Mime, Slowking, Aerodactyl, Hippowdon...

I'm bored now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:11:25 No.13716089 Report

Quoted By:

>>13716026
Politoed completely shuts this set down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:17:24 No.13716110 Report

Quoted By: >>13716132 >>13716182

>>13716084
At least half of these I've OHKO'd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:21:52 No.13716132 Report

Quoted By:

>>13716110

Well then maybe you should have asked who won't be OHKOed regardless of EV investment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:28:32 No.13716182 Report

Quoted By: >>13716191 >>13716241 >>13716365

>>13716110
That guy was too dumb to calc it out properly.

>http://pastebin.com/e9uGEcE6
These are the OU sets that can at least not be 2hko'd, though some of the lower ones need a bit of luck+leftovers. Naturally Dragonite is a clear threat, as are Blissey and Chansey. Rotom-H can also tank with Pain Split, Thunder Wave, and Volt switch also does 60% minimum, so most switch-ins can KO Zard at that point, and these are just the Pokemon that can switch-in properly, there were at least double the Pokemon when you consider everything that can only be 2hko'd, and some of the Pokemon there could also sufficiently cripple Zard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:29:57 No.13716191 Report

Quoted By: >>13716232

>>13716182
Also, I plugged in Modest Zard on the calc. So that's the maximum damage he could do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:37:43 No.13716232 Report

Quoted By: >>13716257 >>13716268

>>13716191
So only Chansey, Blissey, Rotom, MS Dragonite, and Tentacruel?
That's actually not many really. I honestly though Zard was shit tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:39:22 No.13716241 Report

Quoted By:

>>13716182
Yup, I knew Charizard isnt as shit as everyone says. Fuck /vp/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:42:20 No.13716257 Report

Quoted By:

>>13716232
There are more that can revenge kill, those are just the ones that can safely switch into anything Zard does and still survive another hit. Not to mention Politoed isn't included in the list because the calc assumes Sun is always up. 3 of the top 5 most popular Pokemon in OU can completely shut down all forms of Charizard, and that's usually a good sign that that Pokemon doesn't belong in the tier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:43:35 No.13716264 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715559
It isn't? Do you even OU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:44:12 No.13716268 Report

Quoted By: >>13716277

>>13716232
Offensively, he's nothing to sneeze at. And MegaChar is going to be even stronger. The problem was always his defense and the pebbles.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:44:59 No.13716275 Report

Quoted By: >>13717502

It's not overpowered though

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:45:30 No.13716277 Report

Quoted By: >>13716290

>>13716268
But Mega Evolution has to be able to overpower Solar Power or else Mega Charizard is completely useless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:45:37 No.13716278 Report

Quoted By:

>There's no Pokémon Charizard can't always OHKO!
>Actually there's several dozen
>But there's no Pokémon Charizard can't always 2HKO!
>Apart from these!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 13:49:01 No.13716290 Report

Quoted By:

>>13716277
Not losing even more HP in a turn would be a straight upgrade already.
How much his SP.Atk. will raise, who knows.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 14:01:22 No.13716365 Report

Quoted By: >>13716377

>>13716182
Can you calculate some of those for a physical move used against them on the same Charizard?
At least Chansey or Blissey should be a 1-2HKO with that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 14:03:10 No.13716377 Report

Quoted By:

>>13716365
I could, but that wasn't the set I was asked to factor, and replacing one of the 4 moves with a physical attack would likely add another Pokemon to the list of Pokemon that are only 3hko'd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 14:05:28 No.13716398 Report

Quoted By: >>13717125 >>13717267

>>13715381
Volcarona is never a liability. Pebbles are the only thing keeping it from being uber

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 15:43:29 No.13717125 Report

Quoted By:

>>13716398
This
They are annoying tho

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 15:46:23 No.13717158 Report

Quoted By:

Stealth rock only works once, then the peebles are consumed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 15:47:00 No.13717163 Report

Quoted By:

Always hits for 12.5% or neutral damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 15:55:14 No.13717267 Report

Quoted By: >>13717282

>>13716398
Volcarona would not be Uber without rocks, just dethrone Scizor as king of OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 15:56:43 No.13717282 Report

Quoted By: >>13717306

>>13717267
This, any rock type attack kills it before it can set up

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 15:59:13 No.13717306 Report

Quoted By: >>13719769 >>13720464

>>13717282
Same with scizor and literally any fire attack, really.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:00:56 No.13717325 Report

Quoted By: >>13717367

>>13715337
We fix it by not touching it at all. It is fine as it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:05:10 No.13717367 Report

Quoted By: >>13717403

>>13717325
No, it really isn't fine. It forces players to not use certain types of pokemon OR bring a pokemon that can learn rapid spin. That's like being forced to have a pokemon with aerial ace just in case the opponent uses double team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:08:39 No.13717403 Report

Quoted By: >>13717449

>>13717367
>I-I-It's not the same, Sneaky Pebbles isn't dependent on Luck!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:14:09 No.13717449 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717403
That's it!
25% chance of Sneaky Pebbles going off

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:20:48 No.13717502 Report

Quoted By: >>13717651

>>13716275
You'll never reach all these charizard-fuckers anon, just give up now and embrace le sneaky pebbles may may

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:33:04 No.13717651 Report

Quoted By: >>13717668

>>13717502
>taking off 50% health just for switching in if you're 4x weak
>not overpowered

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:35:13 No.13717668 Report

Quoted By: >>13717721 >>13717793

>>13717651
why don't you just spin, rapidly?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:36:58 No.13717689 Report

Quoted By: >>13717704 >>13717759

>>13715554

>Stealth Rocks to Rock/Ground

So when Gravity is in play, Charizard and Moltres will take 100% damage. Okay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:38:45 No.13717704 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717689
You win some, you lose some.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:40:09 No.13717714 Report

Quoted By: >>13717757 >>13717844 >>13717853

If they wanted to make a spikes variant that could punish flying types, they really should have made it ice type with relatively low distribution, and have it melt after 5 turns, after 3 turns if it's sunny, and they don't melt if it's hailing. That way, ice types would at least see more use, but since ice types are usually pretty frail, once they're done with, the threat is taken care of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:41:00 No.13717721 Report

Quoted By: >>13717788

>>13717668
You could ask people talking about double team why they won't just use aerial ace too.
The answer is: it's wasting a moveslot because rapid spin is only useful for this one purpose. I think it's called... "overcentralizing the metagame" if a move is used by virtually everyone and you're in really big trouble if you don't carry the counter to that one move at all times with you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:44:30 No.13717753 Report

Quoted By: >>13717757 >>13717844 >>13718112

This is actually a brilliant idea.
Stealth rock would be less broken if lasted 5 turns, but in rain it lasted 3 turns and in sandstorm it doesn't go away. Bam. Hail and Sandstorm are now viable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:45:07 No.13717757 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717753
Meant for
>>13717714

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:45:28 No.13717759 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717689
>Mfw I main team Gravity Landorus T

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:48:44 No.13717788 Report

Quoted By: >>13717839

>>13717721
>This shit again
SR can be fucking ignored unless your team needs heavy switching like most hazards, of if half your team isn't rock weak. There's also Taunting, which has utility outside of SR, or leading instead. At least SR can't be learned by 90% of mon, so you can expect who might do it, which is another of DT's problems.

That said, a damage nerf or durabilty count would be the only good tweak to it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:49:23 No.13717793 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717668
You never see anyone bitching about spikes or toxic spikes.
It's entirely SR. Because it's the only such kind of move that puts weakness into consideration.
Why not make it do a flat 15% of damage to everything, with Spikes keeping its multilayers for up to 25% but no hitting levitating and flying enemies? There. Both useful now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:53:23 No.13717839 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717788
It's still free extra damage for using something that makes you vulnerable to begin with, and also being a straight upgrade from Spikes because it can do up to twice the damage 3 layers of spikes can do after using it once. If it didn't do weakness based damage, there'd probably be a lot more pokemon in OU that are not right now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:53:44 No.13717844 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717714
>>13717753
I want this to happen.
Add in a fire and water type stealth-hazard and each weather type has it's entry hazard of choice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:54:46 No.13717853 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717714
This should have happened.

Anyway, I think just making SR do a flat amount of damage (10%~) regardless of typing would be the best fix to it. I mean, it's not like Spikes ever dealt double damage to anything weak to ground anyway.

But SR will probably remain untouched. Gamefreak only cares about the nips' metagame and SR isn't used as much over there because they play by stadium rules, so it's not as useful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 16:55:23 No.13717860 Report

Quoted By:

New INT stats for all Pokemon

if your Pokemon INT is higher thab stealth rocks power, you only take 1/5th damage you would have

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 17:06:24 No.13717977 Report

Quoted By:

Make more SR-esque moves that cover different typings, only one allowed to be up at a time

Give another move/ability or three that gets rid of sneaky pebbles/fire/etc so you're not stuck with a useless ass spinner

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 17:19:01 No.13718112 Report

Quoted By: >>13718230

>>13717753
>Stealth Rock (rock type for sandstorm teams)
>Stalagmite (ice type for hail)
>Blaze Coal (fire type for sun)

In its own weather, the hazard is permanent, but in its opposite weather it only lasts for 2-3 turns, with the base being 4-5 turns. Since rain removes both Stealth Rock and Blaze Coal quicker it doesn't get it's own entry hazard. It's already pretty strong anyways. Hail is the worst weather so I figure the next least common weather should counter it.
Sandstorm<Rain
Sun<Rain
Hail<Sun
Thoughts?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 17:19:55 No.13718119 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715337
It doesn't need to be fixed, you guys are just too dumb to play with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 17:22:02 No.13718136 Report

Quoted By:

Whirlwind blows all hazards to the opponent's side

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 17:30:50 No.13718218 Report

Quoted By: >>13718230

GF should hire you.
It's perfect. Even the names are good.
THIS is how we fix entry hazards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 17:31:41 No.13718230 Report

Quoted By:

>>13718218
Meant for
>>13718112
I don't know why quick reply keeps fucking up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 17:32:47 No.13718238 Report

Quoted By: >>13718284

>>13715396
or make rapid spin a somewhat useable move with at least 50 damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 17:38:33 No.13718284 Report

Quoted By:

>>13718238
50 is still useless. And normal type to boot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:03:14 No.13718465 Report

Quoted By: >>13718520

How about make Stealth Rock of every type? But only one type can be on a field. Now everyone is screwed in balanced way and problem is solved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:09:38 No.13718513 Report

Quoted By: >>13718618

>Blaze Coal
Scizor loses half it's health on switching in
>Stalagmite
Gliscor and most of the dragons lose half their health on switch in

Please GF. We need this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:10:51 No.13718520 Report

Quoted By:

>>13718465
No. The metagame would boil down to "Who brought the right entry hazards" rather than "How do we minimize entry hazard damage?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:16:21 No.13718556 Report

Quoted By: >>13718746

>People think Stealth Rock is the reason that Charizard a shit

Gee willikers it's like you've never heard of Volcarona, who shares Charizard's affinity for hating rocks.

But wait! Volcarona isn't SHIT like Charizard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:17:02 No.13718559 Report

Quoted By: >>13718670 >>13718910

>>13715337
>forced everyone to work the metagame around it

as if covetous crystals are the only reason people don't use fire-types.

Flying and bug are weak to sneaky stones, but people still use them.

People don't use Ice-types because they normally lack defenses and are weak to earthquake AND outrage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:23:32 No.13718618 Report

Quoted By: >>13718853

>>13718513
>Stalagmite for the win
I would love more entry hazards. Just hazard everything, trick room and roar everything away.

blaze coal and stalagmite could deal only half the damage SR does, but instead they 10% chances to burn/freeze.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:27:43 No.13718667 Report

Quoted By:

Stealth Rock does neutral damage to all Pokemon, ignores type relations

An uncommon ability that causes entry hazards to disappear when the Pokemon is switched in

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:28:03 No.13718670 Report

Quoted By:

>>13718559
>ice type weak to outrage
wot?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:32:19 No.13718723 Report

Quoted By:

Normalize the damage a bit; make the damage boost against weak pokemon 1.5x and quad weak 2x, same for the resistances. This isn't a huge nerf, but it does let Charizard and friends have some breathing room to operate in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:34:20 No.13718746 Report

Quoted By:

>>13718556

But it is certainly weaker because of pebbles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:42:05 No.13718853 Report

Quoted By:

>>13718618
Or you could even halve stealth rock's damage but give a 10% chance to lower def and SpD?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:44:07 No.13718872 Report

Quoted By:

>>13716084
So? There are many glass cannons which rely on OHKOing their enemies, and switch out/suicide if that is not an option. Take Starmie, for example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:48:09 No.13718910 Report

Quoted By: >>13718948

>>13718559
And what bugs people used? Volcarona, Forretress and Scizor are only three.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:51:55 No.13718945 Report

Quoted By: >>13719649

>>13715369
>I have to convince them I don't like Charizard to fit in!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:52:08 No.13718948 Report

Quoted By:

>>13718910
Two of which are neutral to SR.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1373077504305.jpg, 6KiB, 200x233

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 19:59:41 No.13719649 Report

Quoted By:

>>13718945

>Charizard Defense Force

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:04:08 No.13719686 Report

Quoted By: >>13719730 >>13720432

Make Rock Smash remove Stealth Rocks.

Or add more variants of Rapid Spin that don't suck and can be learnt by more Pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:05:36 No.13719708 Report

Quoted By:

>playing against a stall team that's entire tactic of damaging is MUH HAZARDS
>offensive presence, rapid spin, heall bell and wish support outstalls the stall

I hate hazards

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uususpecttest-49839803

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:07:34 No.13719730 Report

Quoted By: >>13720289

>>13719686
Personally, I can feel with this. The number of spinners is so low and the only spinning move is blocked by ghosts that its entirely predictable when someone just has a spinner.

Spin blocking does add a layer of depth to the game, but a ghost, poison, dragon, etc spinning move, all types with offensive immunities would be cool.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:08:10 No.13719738 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715441
Not a bad idea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:10:45 No.13719769 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717306
>Scizor in rain

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1376265717907.jpg, 176KiB, 800x800

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:40:30 No.13720083 Report

Quoted By:

Ways to fix entry hazards:
>When pebbles dig into the opponent, they're gone. So in other words, single use pebbles
>A Rapid Spin variant that can hit all types, thus no more spinblocking
>Whirlwind, Gust, Twister, Hurricane etc. blow entry hazards to the opponent's side in addition to their current effects
>Rock Smash could break pebbles
>Steel types destroy pebbles when they enter the field and are immune to the damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:45:25 No.13720119 Report

Quoted By:

>>13715431
>>13715700

And for spikes to be effective you need to use it 3 times, SR is a only one time thing.

Maybe they should make SR behave like spikes, work it's super effective damage in how many stacks there are (with a maximum of 3 = current SR)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:47:47 No.13720147 Report

Quoted By: >>13720185

I think the most hilarious part of this is that the current OU metagame hardly ever uses SR in practice now.

It's all rain teams, momentum teams and all-out offense teams.

My guess would be that I see SR in about 20-25% of the matches I play, if that. It's not as prevalent as people make it out to be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:51:45 No.13720185 Report

Quoted By: >>13720197 >>13720370 >>13720401

>>13720147
>a single move seen in a quarter of all teams
>not prevalent
u joking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 20:52:53 No.13720197 Report

Quoted By: >>13721064

>>13720185
it's just the way people make it out to be it's the first turn move every time, like it's standard procedure to SR, as if you're shaking hands.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:00:59 No.13720289 Report

Quoted By:

>>13719730
Name: Excavate
Type: Ground
Damage: 20 (ATT)
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 40
Effect:
Removes entry hazards & frees the user from wrap/bind.

Name: Psy Storm
Type: Psychic
Damage: 20 (SPA)
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 40
Effect:
Removes entry hazards & frees the user from wrap/bind.

Name: Escape
Type: Normal
Damage/Accuracy: -
PP 30
Effect:
Removes entry hazards & frees the user from wrap/bind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:03:36 No.13720320 Report

Quoted By: >>13720405

Rocks have 3 uses. They do the same damage, except they run out after inflicting their damage 3 times.

The move still stays useful because you can control your opponent's switch-ins for 3 turns, at the same time, it isn't as centralizing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:07:10 No.13720370 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720185
That's not even as prevalent as Scizor with Bullet Punch alone.
Outrage is used a fuckton more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:10:01 No.13720401 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720185
Is there any stats about moves popularity? Shit like rest or protect can top rocks without any problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:10:13 No.13720405 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720320
Make it five and you've got a deal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:12:42 No.13720432 Report

Quoted By:

>>13719686
This. The problem with Stealth Rocks is that there's so few counters to it. Making Taunt last longer would help too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:16:12 No.13720464 Report

Quoted By:

>>13717306
The difference being the amount of Pokemon with a rock move in their usual sets versus the amount of Pokemon with a fire move.
This isn't GSC anymore, there's no reason to carry Fire Blast on everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:11:07 No.13721064 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720197
I'm now imagining that two dude go to greet each other a shake hands, but one of them goes full out pocket sand but instead of sand its a hand full of gravel

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:13:18 No.13721087 Report

Quoted By:

this Gen I really hope they do more entry hazards for other types
but give us more counters and maybe a way to reverse them on the opponent

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:17:44 No.13721121 Report

Quoted By:

Well Stealth Rocks could get a nerf but we want competitive Pokemon to be as extreme as possible really.

So how about instead of nerfing stealth rocks making it so Spikes don't need to be stacked to deal that magic 25% damage

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