/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #13718912

>>13718936
>Stealth Rock set up
>Pokemon to cancel out a Stealth Rock set up
>Pokemon to cancel out Pokemon that endanger Stealth Rock users

>Grass
>Fire
>Water

Pokemon is Pokemon.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 18:55:54 No.13718993 Report

Quoted By: >>13719189

Mandibuzz for NU here. Onix is my only problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 19:11:02 No.13719189 Report

Quoted By:

>>13718993
Eviolite Natu.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:27:31 No.13720568 Report

Quoted By: >>13720666

>>13718936
I agree, when the whole fucking competitive game is practically centered around one god damn move something is very, very wrong. Not only does it stifle creative tatics, but it's just tedious.

Spikes and Toxic spikes I can tolerate since it's more on stacks and you anticipate and punish that fairly easy, and it doesn't screw over entire types with prejudice - if there are two stacks on the field it will hit you for 1/6th, unless you're flying or 'floating'. So if you make Stealth rock a spikes variant that ignores flying, then I'm all game, that's fine and fair.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:35:47 No.13720666 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720568
That or give it field clear after X number of turns, so you can kill the user and stall it out. Perhaps we can have different typing "stealth rock" to bite back at stealth rock users.

As it stands though it's bullshit, it shuts down entire types unless you waste slots just to counter it. This gives one player too much power to control the field over the other.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:42:34 No.13720721 Report

Quoted By: >>13720759 >>13720876

whats this 3rd picture saying

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:46:02 No.13720759 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720721
Starmie is mostly used as a spinner despite the fact that it's better used as a sweeper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:51:43 No.13720842 Report

Quoted By: >>13720921 >>13720948 >>13720952

A look at SR
>Keeps Dragonite and Volcarona out of Ubers
>Keeps Moltres out of OU
>Makes it so Flying types and Levitate Pokemon aren't completely immune to all hazards
>Turns a bunch of 2HKOs into OHKOs, 3HKOs into 2HKOs, etc.
>Along with Spikes and TSpikes, punishes the best option in Pokemon: switching

It doesn't stifle any creative tactics any more than other hazards do (unless you consider Moltres worth the weight of an entire metagame), and even then other hazards don't stifle creative tactics.

It makes KOs easier. It keeps some stuff out of Ubers. It lets things that would otherwise miss KOs on non-grounded Pokemon especially net them. It strips away a completely retarded advantage that Flying Pokemon and Levitaters otherwise have over other Pokemon.

It's a utility move

I don't get it, there are people that act like you put SR 4 times on every Pokemon and you're guaranteed a win and ruin everyone's fun

It's a utility move that makes a whopping 1 Pokemon not OU (for serious, nothing else is really that good that gets super shafted by SR) and otherwise has an important but not over imposing role in the game.

It's a move. There are a number of broken moves that are better than it. Why do people hate it? Is it literally just "because Charizard"? I literally can't think of any other reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:54:27 No.13720876 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720721
rapid spin go work on spooky

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:56:53 No.13720903 Report

Quoted By:

I wouldn't say it's absolutely central. Influential definitely, but every game doesn't rest entirely on stealth rock's presence or absence like weather in OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 21:58:29 No.13720921 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720842
Anyone who hates Stealth Rock or thinks Stealth Rock controls the metagame is a deluded Charizardfag, who believes they are the single reason why Charizard a shit in terms of battle usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:00:17 No.13720948 Report

Quoted By: >>13720966

>>13720842
>literally can't think of any other reason

probably because spikes dish neutral damage and SR is biased in its punishments

if it dealt neutral damage, it'd be fair

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:00:54 No.13720952 Report

Quoted By: >>13720982 >>13721013 >>13721017 >>13721027

>>13720842
It keeps Dragonite and Volcarona out of Ubers, which means that you have to deal with them in OU. And what is the one thing nerfing them enough to allow them in the tier? SR. So if you aren't using them, you're going to get destroyed by Pokes that are basically Ubers. So, like many people have said, it over centralizes the meta. Run SR or get swept by Pokemon that should be in Ubers

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:01:46 No.13720966 Report

Quoted By: >>13720989

>>13720948
Stealth Rock is biased in it's punishments because Flyers get to avoid every other hazard.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:02:49 No.13720982 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720952
>not using scarf cloyster

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:03:23 No.13720989 Report

Quoted By: >>13721019

>>13720966
but spikes only deal 12% damage on one layer and has to be stacked to get to 25%, while one turn of SR deals 25% damage to flying types, not to mention fire, ice, and bug types who do not avoid spikes

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:05:20 No.13721013 Report

Quoted By: >>13721024 >>13721340

>>13720952
> Run SR or get swept by Pokemon that should be in Ubers

So these are the delusions of a Charizardfag, how pathetic.

Dragonite and Volcarona wouldn't be ubers because they're strong enough to compete, they'd be Ubers because people would whine loud enough.

Stealth Rock keeps them from being shoved into a tier they're useless in like poor Excadrill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:05:49 No.13721017 Report

Quoted By: >>13721074

The entire metagame revolves around stealth rock, it's obscenely anti-competitive when everyone has to use it, and a turn is wasted just throwing it up, giving one team an advantage, and then the oher team either staying at that disadvantage or wasting a turn to get rid of them..

I personally believe it should be banned from OU and all lower tiers, it would make battles much more interesting, open up a lot of new strategies, and most importantly, a lot of new counters.

>>13720952
Banning SR would add counters to Volcarona, like Moltres and Gyarados. Without SR, Dragonite could be countered by Cresselia, or maybe even Skarmory.

It does nothing but limit the metagame, and worse, its competitive nature. If Smogon is too slow to fix this, I at least hope Gamefreak will fix it for them and nerf the damn move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:06:02 No.13721019 Report

Quoted By:

>>13720989
not to mention the extremely widespread availability of SR, while spikes can only be learned/used by a much more limited selection

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:06:36 No.13721024 Report

Quoted By:

>>13721013
Without SR, Volcarona would have a much longer list of checks and counters, notably Skarmory and Dragonite.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:06:50 No.13721027 Report

Quoted By: >>13721086

>>13720952
No, they shouldn't be in Ubers, because SR beats em

Ubers are only Ubers if the metagame around them makes them Ubers. Half the OU tier would be Uber in Gen IV but the power creep changed things.

They're not Ubers because you can use SR. If you choose not to use it it's like choosing to run a team completely weak to fighting type attacks and not carrying priority. Your team is going to lose to Terrakion. You didn't prepare for it, and as such, against your team Terrakion is as Uber as DNite or Volc is against a team without SR.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:12:04 No.13721074 Report

Quoted By: >>13721103 >>13724638

>>13721017
You sacrifice a turn to get a long term advantage, one that without a Spinblocker can be removed, and one that could potentially be taunted or bounced back at you wasting your turn.

You're right most the time, as even most top teams don't run spinners. But that's because SR makes a utility impact that opens up options, and doesn't completely break the flow of battle. You'd see the results at top level play if it were the case. Everyone runs SR, but people don't bother to do something to counter it because it isn't gamebreaking. You only ever need a spinner when you carry something desperately weak to SR like DNite, Kyu-B, Volc, etc. There is no proof in practice that there is anything anti competitive about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:13:17 No.13721086 Report

Quoted By:

>>13721027
>comparing a team all weak to fighting to not having stealth rock

If carrying stealth rock (one move) is as important as making sure you don't have a team where every mon is weak to the same type, then to me that's over-centralized.

Also, Pokemon are in Ubers because they can compete with other Pokemon in Ubers. Mewtwo would be OU as well if there was a move that insta-halved his health as he comes on to the field.

And I don't even fucking like Charizard I just hate SR

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:15:46 No.13721103 Report

Quoted By: >>13721254

>>13721074
>every top level player uses SR
>If every top level player used a Pokemon in OU it would be banned to Ubers

Thanks for making a convincing argument to ban SR

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:21:51 No.13721161 Report

Quoted By: >>13721257

>using sr against a xatu
>leaving a ferrothorn in against any fire type
who the fuck does this

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:29:31 No.13721254 Report

Quoted By: >>13721340

>>13721103
Every top level team probably runs Earthquake, Hydro Pump and/or Close Combat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 22:29:47 No.13721257 Report

Quoted By:

>>13721161
People who use SR on the first turn and face a switch could potentially end up SRing against a Xatu.

I'd say that Ferrothorn vs fire is inexcusable, but most are packing a sash for explicitly that purpose so it happens all the time anyway.

What would help is some multi-hit fire and/or flying moves. Especially if they're sp. atk.

Incidentally, a multi-hit sp. fire attack on Charizard and some other sp. fire types would be a big help to keeping ferrothorn SR spam in check, and completely shut down ninjask as far as my team is concerned.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 09 Sep 2013 23:39:57 No.13721340 Report

Quoted By: >>13724265

>>13721254
and you can damn well bet there is at least one pokemon with stealth rock, because it's a free card to chop off 1/4th of any pokemon with flying, fire, ice, and bug, and 1/2 if it's unfortunate enough to have 2 of those types, this causes OHKO's where there wouldn't have been.

Like I said, put a time limit (five turns like gravity or trick room) on it or create type variants, personally I want the types, with no time limit til next gen.

I want SR users to taste their own shit with a "orbiting comets" that cuts Ferrothorn and Forretress to half health - It's the only way they'll learn.

I suggest
Fire
Water
Grass
maybe a ice, flying, and steel, if one then steel
and at least one from these: dark, psychic, ghost, dragon, fairy
All of these are literally stealth rock with different type biases, same shit different type

and a "floating spikes" that hurts everything, but ground, because opposite day.

>>13721013
I couldn't care less about charizard. I'm sick of anything weak to SR being a "stupid" decision, because the meta-game is all about one god damn move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Sep 2013 03:20:40 No.13724265 Report

Quoted By:

>>13721340
>because the meta-game is all about one god damn move.

Gen 4 is over, anon. Gen 5 has been more fighting around weather and Pokemon that get perks from it (Or can ignore it somehow). If SR didn't hit flying/floaters no one would give a damn about the move, and you'd be trading one kind of BS for another if it was useless. A damage nerf to put it near max Spikes is fine, however.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Sep 2013 03:51:53 No.13724588 Report

Quoted By:

The problem with preventing Stealth Rock is that almost anything can learn it and it can be set up in one turn. So unless you can OHKO or Taunt every possible SR user before they have a chance to attack you're not gonna be able to prevent it consistently.

The only exception is Espeon/Xatu, both of which can be easily Pursuit trapped.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Sep 2013 03:57:41 No.13724638 Report

Quoted By:

>>13721074
Taunting causes the user to waste a turn as well, unless they can completely wall the rock-setter's attacks

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Sep 2013 04:11:02 No.13724768 Report

Quoted By:

> mfw if Gamefreak made an ice version of Stealth Rock, Smogon would instantly ban it.

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