/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #14056538

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What's the deal?

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 07:48:52 No.14056538 View View Reply Original Report

In both Hoenn and Sinnoh Ash's previous region powerhouse came back and defeated a legendary at some point, and Pikachu followed suit.

Where were the legendaries for Ash to battle at endgame in Unova? Infernape will never be able to Blaze the fuck out of a legendary now.

Was Best Wishes really trying to be Kanto 2.0?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 07:57:48 No.14056622 Report

Quoted By: >>14056657

>>14056538
It was trying to take after the games.

Black and White were sort of a "fresh start" for the franchise, hence why absolutely no Pokemon from previous Gens were available until after you beat the League and unlock the National Pokedex.

Due to the very close "working relationship" between the anime and games, you could say that the anime is more or less "contractually obligated" to follow the games' lead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:02:00 No.14056657 Report

Quoted By: >>14056726

>>14056622
Taking this logic into account, you can probably expect Ash's old Pokemon to make appearances in the upcoming series, since rather than a "fresh start" like Gen V was meant to be, Gen VI appears to be more of a celebration of the franchise in general.

This is probably also the reason why all of Ash's companions this time around are the same age as or younger than him. Unlike in Unova, Ash is in somewhat more familiar territory now, so I'm guessing that writers are feeling more comfortable with showing off his more experienced side.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:04:19 No.14056679 Report

Quoted By: >>14056695

>Fights a legendary
>It's Heatran
>Ash only orders Fire attacks instead of Fighting or Ground
>Flash Fire triggers
>Heatran beats up Infernape
>Blaze triggers
>Infernape KOs Heatran with Flare Blitz

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:06:21 No.14056695 Report

Quoted By: >>14056707

>>14056679
Ash isn't that stupid when fighting legendaries.

>Infernape, mach punchx6

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:09:03 No.14056707 Report

Quoted By:

>>14056695
Ash's competence does tend to rise directly in response to the threat level of his opponent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:13:03 No.14056726 Report

Quoted By: >>14056736 >>14056771

>>14056657
I think it's more like, the longer they keep Ash around the only place he can go is down given he's never allowed to win a league.

His perceived intelligence is also directly related to his role in the group, or relationship to the lead female. With Misty and Iris, he was a bumbling idiot. With May and Dawn he was an awesome and cool peer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:14:32 No.14056736 Report

Quoted By: >>14056959

>>14056726
>Childhood friend
>He can only show off
>The comeback of mentor-esque Ash.

yes Yes YES.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:19:29 No.14056771 Report

Quoted By: >>14056809

>>14056726
Nah, I don't think it's like that.

What, you think the only way to improve is to win tournaments? You seem to think awfully little of other trainers who aren't Ash.

Personally, I do think the way they're going about this is all completely wrong. Ash is only ten. There's no reason he should keep losing to amateurs; shouldn't he be losing to stronger opponents instead? The Champion and the Elite Four aren't the only powerful trainers around.

Yet instead he ends up losing to some guy with a Meowth or an idiot with a freshly-evolved Lucario. What's the deal with that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:24:56 No.14056809 Report

Quoted By: >>14056948

>>14056771
>Or an idiot with a freshly-evolved Lucario. What's the deal with that?

Maybe you might have a point, in the sense that given that Unova was a "fresh start" they wanted Ash to seem like a newbie in Unova, even though he had more wordly experience than any other trainer the same age he battled.

But really given what they pulled with Cameron, it tells me that they no longer have any set pattern with Ash. Given he's never going to win a league, he's either going to do worse...or at the very best get runner up over and over again in the league. Aka never really being allowed to improve.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:29:49 No.14056855 Report

Quoted By:

The last battle(s) arcs in each region is suppose to end Ash off on a relatively high note:

Hoenn: Charizard defeating Articuno/Pikachu beating Regice.

Sinnoh: Sceptile defeating Darkrai/Pikachu tying Latios.

Unova: Ash wins a 5 minute sumo competition with Pignite, against a Golurk. Charizard comes back, and does nothing.

wat

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:36:56 No.14056948 Report

Quoted By: >>14057065 >>14057072

>>14056809
Again, winning tournaments =! never improving.

Ash can improve all he wants. If he's too strong, then all the writers really need to do is introduce someone stronger. The Elite Four and the Champion aren't the only strong trainers around. It would be perfectly acceptable for Ash to lose against a trainer who's simply more skilled than he is, with stronger Pokemon.

It's really weird how people seem to think that just because Ash never wins a tournament, he's stuck in some kinda rut. How many tournaments do you think those other trainers lost before making it that far? Several of the trainers he beat in the Indigo tournament were actually repeat participants. How many times do you think Flint or other members of the Elite Four lost before making it to their current points? How can you say for certain that Agatha or Bruno didn't lose dozens of tournaments before being recognized for their skills?

And yet, apparently, because Ash has yet to win a single tournament, he's a loser who can't improve?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO clemont-vs-ash.png, 259KiB, 620x349

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:37:54 No.14056959 Report

Quoted By: >>14057093

>>14056736
Thankfully this Ash indeed at least looks like he'll be back to being the experienced member of the group.

It really wasn't until Episode N/ Da! that Ash seemed like he was the most experienced one in Best Wishes.

However, as the OP said, it's really too bad Infernape might miss it's chance. I really wanted to see it go apeshit on something like Cobalion or Tornadus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:45:14 No.14057065 Report

Quoted By:

>>14056948
Part of the issue probably has to do with the games. Most players tend to go through the games without losing a single battle. Go undefeated, take on the league and become the Champion; this is pretty much the whole point of the story mode. Anyone who fails to do so is a shit player/trainer.

But no one ever stops and thinks about how completely different the anime is from the games. For starters, Ash is actually physically traveling across the regions. Battling isn't just a matter of EVs and picking from a menu. Strategies aren't limited to just "pick from four moves and have them do their thing". Everything's a lot harder. There are far, far more trainers, and the Elite Four are far stronger than their game counterparts. There aren't any levels or stat caps. There are no IVs or EVs. The effectiveness of a move isn't limited solely to its damage/accuracy rating. A move doesn't just do one thing; it can be used in a variety of different ways. Terrain is actually an issue. Entry hazards can be used and dealt with in ways aside from just sing Rapid Spin or relying on Magic Bounce.

99% of /vp/ wouldn't survive a day in Ash's, or even any other anime trainer's shoes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:45:40 No.14057072 Report

Quoted By: >>14057189

>>14056948
The problem with Best Wishes was, for a main character they had him bow out far too many times in tournaments that hurt his credibility. Most of them were to trainers who hadn't ventured outside of Unova. The first tournament he was written at a massive type disadvantage because the writers for w/e reason had him use Pikachu against Iris' Excadrill. In the second they had him use a weak Pokemon, so he'd bow out to Stephan winning it. The Junior Cup had him lose to Trip who is no more skilled than Paul was, plus was a recently starting trainer and we all know about Cameron and the Unova League. It gave the illusion the writers were far more interested in other characters than him, and they just don't care about writing him anymore.

The writers also never give us any indication what a Pokemon Master is. All we know is that it's something beyond and Champion (who come across invincible in the anime). And given how they handle Ash they make it seem like he'll never actually get there compared to someone like Dawn who almost became a top Coordinator on her first go, or all it taking to be a Dragon Master is, more or less beating Drayden and being a gym leader for Iris.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:47:29 No.14057093 Report

Quoted By:

>>14056959
I hope they do that with all of his Gym and League battles. Just like in the games. It looks awesome.

I wonder if Clemont also owns a Bunnelby in the game, cause I thought he was supposed to be an Electric type leader.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:52:09 No.14057189 Report

Quoted By: >>14057224 >>14057583

>>14057072
Eh.

You know? I don't actually mind this whole "Master" thing.

I mean, consider the following here. All of the Elite Four and Champions so far have been significantly older than Ash. Several of them have probably held their titles for a rather long time. Alder's probably been a Champion longer than Ash has even been alive.

So, really, if you think about it, it's actually quite reasonable that he's not quite there yet. He's only ten. If anything, the idea of him making it at his age is nothing short of ludicrous. Ash isn't some kinda mega-prodigy. He's talented, but he's not invincible. He's not gonna close that gap so easily. He might become a so-called "Pokemon Master" in a few years (assuming time does, at some point, pass for him), but he's still not there yet. It's gonna be a long time before he catches up to the likes of Alder or Cynthia.

I mean, I kinda doubt the current Champions obtained their titles when they were ten years old either, so why should we expect Ash to do so?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 08:54:14 No.14057224 Report

Quoted By:

>>14057189
Hell, the fact that he's even managed to catch the eyes of all these high-tier trainers should speak volumes for him anyway. He's not Champ-material yet, but the current Champs do see something in him. He might just be able to catch up in one or two years.

...Again, assuming time does actually start passing for him at some point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 09:00:05 No.14057314 Report

Quoted By: >>14057371 >>14057595

Wait, wasn't he canonically 12/13 now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 09:03:18 No.14057371 Report

Quoted By:

>>14057314
He's ten forever.

Anime runs on Sazae-san time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 09:22:01 No.14057583 Report

Quoted By: >>14057637

>>14057189
*shrugs*

Maybe I just wish he had a more realistic goal. Though I guess it could be said, the reason that Ash's travel companions have such short runs when compared to him is that their goal is actually attainable at their age. Compared to Ash, who probably would need to age to achieve what he's setting out to do.

I think every co-star/sidekick he's traveling with is much close to achieving their goal than he ever will. Which is a shame IMO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 09:23:17 No.14057595 Report

Quoted By:

>>14057314
he celebrated the anniversary of him meeting Pikachu once (his birthday if you don't remember) and they still say he's 10

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 09:26:01 No.14057637 Report

Quoted By:

>>14057583
"Realistic goals" are for shows not made for five-year-olds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 29 Sep 2013 10:21:53 No.14058206 Report

Quoted By:

>So why should we expect Ash to do so?

I think people are so used to seeing a main protagonist win 95% of the time, that when in Pokemon Ash loses almost as much as he wins he's a failure.

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