/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #15120718

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Starmie

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:03:35 No.15120718 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>15120787 >>15120849 >>15121400

What will its tier be in the new metagame? Is it still relevant, or is its ability to rapid spin less necessary, and its speed+power outclassed by the new megas?

Starmie, along with Gengar has been OU for 5 straight generations, yet while I can see Gengar remaining in the ring, perhaps the glory of our favorite little death star may finally come to an end? Opinions?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:05:58 No.15120787 Report

Quoted By: >>15120846 >>15120946

>>15120718
With Talonflame's usefulness as a general priority check, we might still need as many spinners as possible. Plus Volcarona is still around and now that Charizard has some new tricks, nostalgiafags will have a huge excuse to NEED as many ways to clear entry hazards as possible.

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:07:51 No.15120846 Report

Quoted By: >>15120956

>>15120787

So where would you place its new usefulness? Still OU or with some spot maybe in UU that occasionally sees play in OU teams?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:07:55 No.15120849 Report

Quoted By: >>15120882

>>15120718
There hasn't been a new pokemon that has come into being that resists All of the tools starmie brings to the table. It is still fast and still hits hard. Still OU. 4 more years.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:09:05 No.15120882 Report

Quoted By: >>15120987 >>15121334

>>15120849
However it has to watch out for gourgeist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:11:08 No.15120946 Report

Quoted By: >>15120978 >>15121030

>>15120787
will Talonflame really end up in OU?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:11:28 No.15120956 Report

Quoted By:

>>15120846
OU is questionable, but it might remain. Starmie's speed is still above normal standards and its versatility is still there. Offensive rain is going to take a hit of course, so its viability in OU goes down a little, but then again ALL weather will be less viable.

Even so, UU would also offer it a nice home as its still a great offensive and versatile threat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:12:06 No.15120978 Report

Quoted By:

>>15120946
Honesty it depends on what happens to fighting types this gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:12:19 No.15120987 Report

Quoted By: >>15121234

>>15120882
Pretty sure an Ice Beam can take it out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:13:45 No.15121030 Report

Quoted By: >>15121154

>>15120946
Gale Wings might push it there to check a few of the more fragile megas/sweepers. That Priority Flying Gem Acrobatics hurts quite a lot, trust me. Brave Bird looks good on paper, but a Base 110 move being priority is still better than Scizor's bullet punch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:17:16 No.15121154 Report

Quoted By: >>15121204

>>15121030
Talonflame should go 252atk/252hp or atk and speed?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:18:55 No.15121204 Report

Quoted By: >>15121247

>>15121154
252Atk/252Spe

It doesn't have priority on coverage, sadly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:19:47 No.15121234 Report

Quoted By: >>15121277

>>15120987
I am just saying that with rocks or spikes down a super sized shadow sneak is scary

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:20:14 No.15121247 Report

Quoted By: >>15121369

>>15121204

How many targets that you'd want to hit with a non-flying move can potentially outspeed it though? It has pretty monstrous base speed as it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:21:11 No.15121277 Report

Quoted By: >>15121313

>>15121234
Ah, didn't realize it got Shadow Sneak.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:22:22 No.15121313 Report

Quoted By: >>15121346

>>15121277
Yeah and SS has base 100 attack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:23:16 No.15121333 Report

Quoted By:

Having access to dazzling gleam may help, right guys?

RIGHT?

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:23:18 No.15121334 Report

Quoted By: >>15121428

>>15120882

The stats of Gourgeist don't seem to match up to something that could easily handle Starmie, and its movepool doesn't lend it much in the way of priority other than of course, Shadow Sneak. Meanwhile, Starmie has Ice Beam, and, for the record, can also learn Shadow Ball. It also has a nice new fairy type move via TM that could prove useful against dark types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:23:27 No.15121346 Report

Quoted By:

>>15121313
SS being super sized. I could have made that more clear.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:24:17 No.15121369 Report

Quoted By:

>>15121247
That attack needs as much help as it can get, so an Adamant Talonflame would cap out around 351 Speed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:24:54 No.15121390 Report

Quoted By:

Even if rapid spin is needed less it still has good SpA and a good moveset. It'll stay OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:25:17 No.15121400 Report

Quoted By:

>>15120718
Talonflame cannot do it's job with rocks up. So long as Talon remains the relentless force that he is Starmie'll have enough of a purpose to warrant usage in OU as the best offensive spinner. It also helps that he's particularly adept at obliterating the rock types that like to threaten talonflame too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:26:10 No.15121428 Report

Quoted By: >>15121912

>>15121334
Gourgeist isn't dark and Starmie is not a pokemon with a lot of built in longevity. I would have to do the math but after rocks a shadow sneak off of an adamant 252 attack Super Sized Gourgeist might be enough to deal with Starmie.

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g

Ruby !!iPJbBu5S79g Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:41:21 No.15121912 Report

Quoted By: >>15122349

>>15121428

Just did a test on a calculator. Shadow Sneak off a max attack Gourgeist is about 52~67% on Starmie, which makes it a 2HKO with or without stealth rock.

Starmie's Ice Beam can do greater damage, but will likely 2HKO.

Factoring life orbs into the equation, Shadow Sneak still won't do it, but Starmie's Life Orb'd Ice Beam WILL OHKO a Gourgeist without Sp. Defense EVs

Factoring a choice band into the situation, that Starmie will probably get OHKO'd after a stealth rock, but it is not a guarantee.

All in all, I probably would switch out a Starmie on a Gourgeist, but I would not count on a Gourgeist to OHKO a Starmie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:42:44 No.15121966 Report

Quoted By:

didn't read anything but the OP

greninja outclasses it as a special sweeper, being stronger, faster, and having STAB on whatever the fuck he wants

also, a certain OP ghost rapes it with a certain priority move, unlike greninja

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Oct 2013 16:55:38 No.15122349 Report

Quoted By:

>>15121912
Ah that makes sense. I would switch out too since all Gourgeist sets I have seen arebrockong 252 Special Def EVs since base 122 Def is already great. So okay I overestimated her shadow sneak but I still think it's a Pokémon Starmie should avoid. Of course Gourgeist might not even be OU.

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