So please explain something to me. Over the course of the last few weeks, or since x/y has come out more accurately, I've seen discussions on the idea about Pokegen, or a service like it, being 'wrong'. Now, I'm quite indifferent on the manner, I really have no desire to competitively battle and what not, but, why is it 'wrong' that people generate their Pokemon instead of going through the process of breeding them. I've seen a few common arguments for this. I'll list some common ones I've seen : You don't bond with your Pokemon', 'It'll ruin Pokemon trade value and service', 'It's cheating', and, one that I've seen way too often and baffles me the most, 'people who use Pokegen are not true fans of Pokemon'.
Anonymous
It's cheating, that's it.
Anonymous
It's cheating, and morally wrong.
Anonymous
seems to just skip all the long autism>b-but breeding doesn't take that long!
Anonymous
It's the same distinction between old money and new money. There's not a "right" answer, both sides will justify their actions while thinking the other side has a stupid opinion. In the meantime, no one needs another drama thread
Anonymous
Taking steroids or cheating in sports would be the same thing. >B-But, why should I have to train and try to be better when I can just cheat!! I don't have autism XDDDDDD epik autism joke XD
Anonymous
>it takes too long to breed waah
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>15577611 >>15577634 But why?
>>15577669 I don't want to cause drama, I'm just curious, it doesn't make sense to me.
>>15577696 But this seems off to me. Steroids are used to enhance the players past their capabilities. Pokegen and bred Pokemon seem exactly the same to me. It would be more accurate to compare it to cloning another player than anything else rather then enhancing another one. Unless I missed the point of your post which I could of easily have.
>>15577699 The timing between both is the big difference I see between it. I see Pokegen as a convenience to players who just wish to get to the part of the game they want to play. Battling and breeding are two different arts in my eyes.
Joshua 3067-4886-6470 (Normal: Aipom, Audino, Smeargle)
Joshua 3067-4886-6470 (Normal: Aipom, Audino, Smeargle) Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:06:24 No. 15577779 Report Quoted By:
>>15577696 But breeding isn't training. Fighting in pokemon battles is training. I would use an analogy as to what breeding is to real sports but the thing is, there is no analogy to be drawn because of breeding's uniqueness
The fact of the matter is though, breeding isn't training
Anonymous
>>15577758 >>15577758 >I don't want to cause drama, I'm just curious, it doesn't make sense to me. Don't lie you fucking asshole.
Sickeny:0559 7956 4738 ice: sneasal, snowver, ?
Sickeny:0559 7956 4738 ice: sneasal, snowver, ? Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:07:28 No. 15577801 Report >>15577758 >But why? uhhhh, because you didn't catch it in game, you didn;t breed to give it perfect iv's, you didn't train it to level 100. You know, because you HACKED it into the game. it's a fake pokemon.
Anonymous
Same reason people pirate video games. Everyone else is enjoying it and they want to get in on it but they don't care about it enough to actually spend real time/money to get that satisfaction. And as with all pirates, they get bored of it exponentially faster than someone who actually contributed to it.
totallynotalyrafag
Quoted By:
>>15577812 It's kind of like pirating, except instead of just getting the game you pirate it with the game beaten already and everything 100% done because you don't want to put in any effort whatsoever..
Anonymous
Pokegen doesn't even affect people who breed their mons, why the bitching?
Anonymous
I see it as people upset that the things they took time to do, and put some amount of effort into, are being done in an instant by people who are cheating, and using a third-party program to do it all for it.
Anonymous
>>15577793 Can't someone legitimately be curious about a supposed 'problem'?
>>15577801 To me it looks, preforms, and functions the same as any other Pokemon. How is it a fake Pokemon? Is it because it wasn't something you originally bred? What are the justifications of a real and fake Pokemon?
>>15577812 Piracy is a service problem though, it's not really comparable to the same as Pokegening a Pokemon in my eyes.
>>15577870 This is what baffles me the most about this inherent 'issue'.
totallynotalyrafag
>>15577870 BECAUSE IT'S CHEATING.
God you're just like all those 5 year olds who used action replay to get level 100 shiny legendaries and then thought that it instantly made them a better trainer when they beat all their freinds who actually have to play the game legitly.
Anonymous
>>15577801 There is no such thing as a fake pokemon that is usable onlnie.
Pedant here, but pokemon are/were simply 136 bytes. If you can create 136 bytes that are identical to another 136 bytes, then it's obviously real. It might be cheated in, but it's still real.
On a side note, RNGing is a result of hackers toying with, manipulating, and analyzing Pokemon data. RNGing is the only way to legitimately get pokemon in a manner that isn't mind-numbingly slow prior to gen VI.
Anonymous
>>15577907 Cheating is cheating, even if it doesn't give the cheater an inherent edge.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15577903 >do it all for it. For them, even.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15577812 Breeding is a HUGE time sink. Especially when you want to train and build teams.
If you're 'good' at it it still takes 2-4 hours. And that's JUST breeding for IVs. Natures, and Egg moves? I'm not even gonna bother.
Some people see breeding specifically as a waste of time.
Breeding to a good number of people is a waste of time.
totallynotalyrafag
>>15577907 >What are the justification of a real and fake pokemon .......
What part of this do you not understand.
Bred/caught in pokemon game: totally legit
Used an outside hacking source to make a random pokemon appear in game through methods not in game: FAKE
Hacking in a pokemon with perfect stats /= actually breeding a pokemon with perfect stats.
Anonymous
>>15577924 the mons are all on the same level competitively
Anonymous
It is technically cheating though. In the long run its basically shortening a task that is really boring since the only excuse they have to do it now is time saving since IV breeding is hella easy now. I can understand why people do it and used to rag on people who did. But today I hatched 2 6IV beldum while MMing and figured I now have something on the same level as people who use it. I cant really dislike the results of pokegen since I can make my own perfect mons easily,especially since I have a 6IV ditto that I found in a safari. At worst they're lazy people who lack comitment but I'd be lying if I said I didnt wish for time spent breeding perfect mons to be cut down.
Anonymous
>>15577696 >why should I have to train and try to be better I don't understand this comparison.
Breeding isn't developing a skill. If we're going for this sort of metaphor, what you're basically doing is playing a game of football where the shoes you receive are of various quality - breeders are rifling through a bin of shoes, checking each shoe to make sure it's the correct one; hackers are going to a cobbler and ordering the perfect shoe.
There's nothing to stop you ordering said shoe, nor does the shoe give your opponent any special advantage over you. At their best, their shoe is as good as your shoe. You chose an extremely tedious way of obtaining your shoe and somehow have a chip on your shoulder and feel the need to justify your method of doing things by portraying any other method as illegitimate.
Breeding doesn't take skill, nor is it an essential part of the game. Do you know what advantage hackers have over you?
While you were riding your bike in circles for 12+ hours, the hacker was out there getting practice in battle and experimenting with moves and builds Anonymous
>>15577801 But if you can't tell the fake pokemon apart from a normally bred one how do you prove it is fake? If you can't prove it's fake, is it still fake?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578029 Unfortunately, the rules states that the players aren't supposed to go out and find a cobbler to make their shoes, therefore they've cheated.
totallynotalyrafag
>>15577992 Oh yeah, except for, you know, the fact that one was cheated to have perfect stats as opposed to other peoples who may not have perfect stats. I really feel bad for the poor children who don't know about breeding, and try to have fun when all these hackers who couldn't give two shits who only want to feel superior just hack in their own pokemon > "B-but they look the same! S-so it's not cheating!"
No it's fucking not, learn the difference, why are there so many underage cunts here who honestly don't know what the word 'hacked' means?
Anonymous
You're basically why it would be cheating to hack in items to WoW or any other game.
Anonymous
>>15577924 >>15577931 >>15578004 This isn't valid and doesn't explain why.
Arguing from a moral stand point will not get you anywhere.
They don't feel like doing it. And above all they see this more as a test of patience than a test of skill.
Simulators exist because of this.
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:21:23 No. 15578100 Report I don't care about people who use it to do competitive play. I don't like it, and I feel it cheapens the effort others put in. Doesn't really matter though. Not my game cart, not my problem.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
I used pokegen just to defeat the japs with level 9 reshiram only knowing splash
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578053 if they aren't bred with perfect IV's they aren't used competitively
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578053 And how is this any different from taking a team of perfect pokemon attained through breeding online? The time it takes to achieve the pokemon? Is that still fair to the children who don't know how to IV breed?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578094 I'm not arguing from a moral standpoint, I'm just saying that it's cheating. They're literally breaking one of the rules of the competition even though their action doesn't give them a clear advantage. Whether you agree with the rule or not is irrelevant. It's cheating.
totallynotalyrafag
>>15578071 Yeah, it's pretty much going
>"I want the perfect items! But i don't actually want to work for them. Who cares if i just hacked in the most powerful item in the game? I just don't want to spend hours getting it, besides, what the difference between my item, which i hacked in, to their item, which they spent months getting? It LOOKS the same, so therefore, it MUST be the same!" HOW THE FUCK DO THEY THINK THIS IS A THING.
Anonymous
>>15578129 >>15578071 if breeding was playing a different game and not being on a bike for 12 or more hours i'd fuckin play it instead
Anonymous
>>15577564 Breeders are extremely pissed that everything they worked so hard for suddenly has to compete with stuff being created in a fraction of the time it would have taken them to by typing stats and pressing some buttons. Not that I care. The way I see it, all the data is still the same no matter how it's made and your true worth lies in actual battles. All I'm doing is taking an easy shortcut with Pokegen because I honestly don't feel like spending all that time messing around at a daycare and riding a bike back and forth when I could be using that same time to experiment with a bunch of different teams in Battle Frontiers to see if they are worth using.
Anonymous
Its literally an issue of "i dont like thing, omg u suk fuk u". Most these people who complain are low tier battlers who refuse to use anything but their favorite pokemon, and complain when they get beat by more coherent teams. So instead of blaming themselves, they blame other people. The same people who hate smogon, hate "hackers" as well.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578177 You have no idea what you're talking about do you?
Anonymous
>>15578071 >>15578129 But that argument doesn't take into consideration the economic influence on a massive multiplayer universe which doesn't exist in Pokemon. It's a terrible analogy.
Anonymous
>>15577924 Isn't that a bit much to assume that he's one of those people who've done that? Plus, to me it seems like people who Pokegen their Pokemon don't hack them to be enhanced in anyway.
>>15577926 This man also states a good point to it the real/fake Pokemon thing.
>>15577989 Except they're equal in every aspect. How is a caught Pokemon any less 'real' than a generated one. Does it have to pertain to being in game? What if I used a third party program to make a 'perfect' Pokemon appear in the wild for me to catch, it was technically in game, so it's still 'real' by that definition?
>>15578004 So, lets call it cheating, at the end of the day it's still harmless to everyone's well being. How is it offensive then? That's the part that baffles me.
>>15578041 I think I've stated this a couple of times, but this is also something that hangs me up when it comes to people going around about 'real' and 'fake' Pokemon as well. The identical nature of the two.
>>15578100 Except Pokebank will essentially do the same thing you're talking about. It will over all lessen the value of Pokemon either through previous efforts of breeding/catching and/or pokegening through. I can also see the benefit of people using the in game battle system to face online opponents, it is pretty I can see the value of wanting to face players there.
Anonymous
>>15578173 Oh, and every single response I get to this argument ever is that I'm a cheating faggot who isn't playing the game properly. Just wanted to throw that before someone else did. Yeah, like hearing that again is going to get me to stop!
Anonymous
>>15578200 We could have an economic influence in Pokemon if the vast majority of perfect ones weren't hacked.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578129 But they are the same. Breeding for perfects, is literally the same as hacking a perfect.
Both wanted the same exact thing. A perfect mon. And you both got it. No one has the advantage.
And mons with imperfect or even hindering stats are never used in competitive anyway.
An Item that looks the same but with hacked stats isn't the same as just simply hacking the actual item into your possession.
Anonymous
>>15578100 This
I dont mind fighting against hackmons but I'd rather not indirectly have them myself. I am going to lose my shit if the fake detector is good enough to rek any genned mons attempted to be put in the bank though. Would suck for people who didnt know they had them though
totallynotalyrafag
>>15578170 yeah, but if it was another game which required months of playing the game and then something like a quest that took hours you would. In the end, it comes down to people who just complain about how long it takes and therefore have to resort to this
>>15578173 That is, claiming that it's "all in the strategy anyway"
Yeah, of course, using the same copy/paste teams is totally something. Not just that, but you didn't even bother to raise the pokemon. Most RNG users are all the same, shit at breeding, and shit at battling, so they are forced to hack in the perfect pokemon, using perfect movesets that they found online to try and beat people who actually try, why? Because it's the only way they feel like they're good at pokemon, because let's face it, if you can't breed or even fucking TRAIN you're own pokemon, you must be pretty shit at pokemon.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578211 Stay mad time wasting failure. While I actually fight something.
Anonymous
>>15578207 >How is it offensive then? That's the part that baffles me. It's "offensive" because their method is breaking the rules. If it didn't break the rules, there'd be no problem.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>competitive pokemon
Anonymous
By all means you can't be TRULY competitive without it.
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:31:39 No. 15578304 Report Quoted By:
>>15578207 Like I said, it doesn't bother me, I just don't see why you'd do it. Also, the trading isn't about lessening the worth of Pokemon. I want my cart to stay clean. WonderTrade and GTS are much less usable when there will be Mons that are hacked if you want to stay outta that. But yeah, I think people are over-exaggerating the competitive side. I just hope people keep their Gen'd Mons to themselves.
Anonymous
>>15578200 Have you ever thought that the economy in pokemon is pokemons itself? You can breed perfect pokemon and use them as a currency.
By hacking them into the game you are killing the "economy"
Anonymous
>>15578217 I really hope not. The last thing pokemon needs is a reason for any kind of money to be involved during play.
totallynotalyrafag
>>15578303 Yeah, we all know, but they refuse to even acknowledge it as cheating. Seriously. They refuse to say that hacking pokemon into the game is cheating.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578312 Not money, the Pokemon themselves.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578250 Nigga, I already SAID that I train! I have my own method of practice! Did you see that bit where I mentioned screwing around at in-game battle facilities? Only a fool would bring them online without actually figuring out how to use them.
Anonymous
Chansey Bold@EvioliteI'm personally fine with Pokegen. I'll use it if it comes out, but if someone is really going to be anal enough to want legit, I will breed my team legit; especially since I've been doing that already for the last 4 weeks.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
in x and y making the perfect pocket monster is possible. >nature,IV's,EV's,egg moves, items
Anonymous
If you like battling without paying, breeding, and training go play Pokemon showdown.
Anonymous
>>15578339 >what is exp share Anonymous
>>15578244 >>15578100 >I don't want it in my game A good hacked mon is indistinguishable from a bred one. You'd never know if you had a hacked one in your game.
totallynotalyrafag
Quoted By:
>>15578306 Funnily enough, this is pretty much true, pokemon used to be about getting the perfect pokemon, and even now on /vp/ people are now trading perfectly bred pokemon for other ones, unfortunately now however, we are getting a flood of faggots who want to stop all this because "WAAAHHH I DON'T WANNA DO IT THE LEGIT WAY! WANNA CHEAT BECAUSE I CAN'T ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING! TAKES TO LONG WAAAH!"
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15577643 But these days, it really doesn't, anon.
I should know,
as an ex-proponent of Pokegen .
Anonymous
>>15578339 also
>what is lucky egg >what is amie exp boost Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578306 And that's bad how? That's like saying we shouldn't have infinite power because then oil won't be worth as much.
Who cares? Screw the rich. It was their mistake emotionally investing in exclusivity.
Anonymous
>>15578173 Honestly, as far as the games are concerned, they only interpret Pokemon as either "legal" or "illegal". Legitimacy is only a thing that matters to humans, and really has no meaning to the game itself. As far as my views on the matter go, I really don't care either way as long as it's possible within the game's boundaries. Sure, people will run stuff like wish Blissey from time to time, but it's technically legal, although the odds are slim to none that it was one actually obtained from that event back in 2004, it's still within the realm of possibility.
Some people will accuse you of hacking even when you haven't. I know firsthand just for using a Lunatone with Baton Pass from Pokemon Gale of Darkness of all things.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578217 This seems like a bad idea in general. The general economy in most MMOs is a horrid mess with a lot of black market deals. Pokemon should avoid this at all cost in my eyes.
>>15578274 So if Gamefreak released a program that circumvented the need for breeding as a mechanic all together and only left it in to please people who actively enjoy breeding, would it still be an issue?
>>15578350 What is 'real' Pokemon stuff. The idea of fake and real is being thrown around all the time in this argument, why?
Anonymous
>>15578364 >>15578385 WRONG. This has nothing to do with leveling it up (the new rules make it easy to level up+ we have exp share). Super training gets rid of EV training issues.
Why don't you have another go at it? The fact that you think I'm referring to EXP gains shows you have no idea why I'm talking about it.
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:37:02 No. 15578415 Report >>15578365 Which is my problem. I want my game to be completely legitimate. I don't expect people who use PokeGen to understand that, but I like not having stuff like that on my cart. But with Pokegen existing, it become a nightmare of paranoia to use WT or GTS.
Anonymous
Sounds a lot like a bunch of people being pissed that they "did hard work" pushing buttons on a toy for hours and hours for something and then someone else decided they could just press a few keys on a computer to get the same thing. They feel cheated out of something, likely time and "effort", that they put into getting that thing and they're too childish to handle the situation like an adult so they throw a temper tantrum and shout words like "FAKE" and "CHEATER" when they're really just made they didn't think of it first themselves. What's worse is how they hold onto this silly ideal instead of just moving on and accepting the new and better way to get the same result. If people like that ran the world we'd still be in the fucking Stone Age because no one would accept progress and new ideas for anything ever.
Anonymous
>>15578129 To get a powerful set of gear in WoW: participate and successfully complete in something that, within the confines of the game, constitutes as a challenge.
To get a pokemon with perfect IVs: move the D-Pad in circles for an hour. Literally impossible to fail. Eventually you'll get a Pokemon with 5-6 perfect IVs.
If we were to say, hack a Choice Band onto a Pokemon I could understand where your argument comes from. Getting the necessary BP for such an item does require passing a challenge. But breeding for IVs is just a pointless task and whining about how it's unfair shows that
a) You want an advantage for simply repeating the same task over and over
b) You're afraid of facing someone on equal footing as you
If people were lazily hacking Pokemon in without second thought, then they should be easy to beat, right? I mean if you spent so much time developing your 'skill' then you should have some insight they don't. Since you spent so much time breeding, then their Pokemon literally cannot be better than yours. It's not like they're using Wondertombs.
stay mad, scrubs.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>15578339 >>15578364 >>15578385 >>15578412 >Not knowing you can never get that set unless you had a GBA game. So pleb. That's actually the sole remaining reason I see for using Pokegen, now that good nature, good IV Pokemon are easily available to commoners to make.
Anonymous
>>15578415 If the hacked mon has legal stats, moves, trainer ID, etc. it IS legitimate you fucking retard.
Anonymous
>>15578482 It's LEGAL, not legitimate.
Anonymous
>>15578491 Why is it not legitimate? What is the big fucking difference between a hacked mon and a bred one if the numbers are exactly the fucking same?
Anonymous
>>15578420 >a) You want an advantage for simply repeating the same task over and over Is that somehow morally inferior to wanting an advantage for doing absolutely nothing at all?
Why even play the game if you're not willing to put the effort in to obtaining your own pokemon legitimately? It doesn't even need to be a lot of effort these days.
Anonymous
>>15578500 One was obtained legitimately and the other wasn't. They're both legal, but only one is legitimate.
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:42:33 No. 15578513 Report >>15578491 This. It wasn't gained in-game without outside programs. It is legal, and if you like that, that's totally cool. Wreck me online. I just don't want that stuff on my game. I feel that isn't asking too much. Is it?
Anonymous
>>15578415 Why though? If the code is exactly the same, byte per byte, then how is it any different?
I saw someone actually post a step by step process of putting a Pokemon into their game by doing nothing but editing hex values. It matched his other Pokemon he used as an example perfectly. How would it be an issue?
>>15578420 This, this very much. There's an inherent challenge to overcome in getting gear in WoW or any other MMO economy, which is what leads it down such dark paths in the first place.
>>15578503 But why is it morally wrong? This seems like a really grey line if one at all.
Anonymous
>>15578511 >One was created through extraordinary autism >The other one wasn't Wow such different much legit very effort wow
Anonymous
>>15578453 Exactly. Several legal sets for pokemon (especially in the case of chansey needing wish on every set), it that it demands the use of event moves that can't be bred in.
In addition to this, several move tutor exclusives from previous gens can't be bred into pokemon, so they can not have that move unless they were made in that gen, (which will also have massively more difficult breeding patterns), as well as makings some combinations of moveset illegal.
Honestly, moves that can be gotten by tutor/event should be breedable into a pokemon in the next gen and until that happens, there will always be a legitimate reason to use gen.
Anonymous
>>15578319 >They refuse to say that hacking pokemon into the game is cheating. Because it's not. Breeding and battling are two separate subgames. "Cheating" in breeding is in no way cheating in battling, which is the only competitive part and thus the only part in which cheating could be a thing.
totallynotalyrafag
Quoted By:
>>15578513 It's a legal pokemon, but really should not be used online, it's just plain unfair to those who actually LIKE playing the game or actually want to try, it's not fair for those people who just want to have fun be put up against these people who just hack because they can;t be assed to do anything legitly.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Honestly though they've done a good thing in gen 6. Make it piss easy to breed IVs to reduce the need for cheating. Because while I will never touch hacked pokemon, it pretty much was necessary for competitive.
Anonymous
>>15578525 Think of it this way. I could buy a knockoff Rolex watch that looks and works exactly the same as an officially produced one, but it still wouldn't be a legitimate Rolex watch.
Anonymous
>>15578515 >But why is it morally wrong? This seems like a really grey line if one at all. Because they've seen a thing of value and instead of working for it within the rules and structures established by the game itself, have instead decided that the best course of action is to go outside the structure of the game and just take what they want without working for it because they can't be fucked doing things legitimately. How is this not a clear example of cheating?
Anonymous
>>15578503 Not the same guy but they're both equally amoral acquisitions in my opinion.
What motivates the person could be moral or immoral. The breeder could be worse because of the narcissism and envy that motivates them to be exclusionary or the breeder could be for disregarding the traditional mores of the community. Frankly, I don't give a fuck. Y'all suck.
Anonymous
>>15578398 >I don't care either way as long as it's possible within the game's boundaries Exactly what I believe. Not that they'll listen to reason though. Wondertombs? Unnatural abominations that must be exterminated. A team of six that has reasonable stats, moves, and everything that fit within the game's limits? Nothing wrong with them and that's what I personally aim for. No shinies either because even though you technically can get them. they would make you look very suspicious if you have too many at one time.
Anonymous
>>15578531 If they can't be bred in, they ain't legal any more. Fagit. Life goes on, and so does legality of sets.
Anonymous
>>15578566 The knockoff Rolex watch would have different parts from the real Rolex watch.
You analogy is fucking SHIT and so is your argument.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Is there anything wrong at all with pokegenning a Porygon or Castform?
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:47:00 No. 15578586 Report >>15578515 Because it wasn't gained through normal, in-game methods. whether it matches the other code doesn't matter to me. I still would rather not have it on my team.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578571 correction, the second use of breeder is supposed to be hacker
totallynotalyrafag
>>15578547 >Hacking pokemon in a game isn't cheating Sweet, time to hack in a team of perfect IV shiny legendaries, it's ok though because you can get them in game, and even though some people would take weeks of hard work to get them, it still LOOKS the same, so therefore, not cheating! Yaaaaay! now to hack in 10000 rare candies because i don't waant to waste time playing the game actually training m pokemon!
Anonymous
>>15578453 so? You can't have that set any more, cry me a fucking river. I can't have Superpower on my Scizor and I'm not complaining.
Try, you know, moving with the times?
Anonymous
>>15578579 And you think your non-watchmaker ass would be able to tell the difference? You'd be pissed if I were trying to sell you a knockoff just because you couldn't tell the difference.
Anonymous
>>15578453 What's really annoying is the fact that even if you do manage to get your hands on a clone of a supposed "legit" Pokemon from one of those events, it'll end up having a terrible nature and/or IV spread most of the time. You just can't win.
>>15578531 I thought it was a step up for Game Freak to finally include Seismic Toss as an egg move for Chansey this time around. It's unfortunate that Wish is still exclusive to an old 2004 event, though.
I sort of think they do it on purpose though. Stuff like Dragonite and Articuno could get Heal Bell via purification in Gale of Darkness, but could not receive it by tutoring in B2/W2. It's ridiculous.
Kez 2964-8571-1127 (Sandshrew, Nincada, GastrodonWest)
Kez 2964-8571-1127 (Sandshrew, Nincada, GastrodonWest) Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:48:58 No. 15578606 Report If you ask my opinion, I think it really depends on what you're using the Pokegen for.
Anonymous
>>15578577 But I can transfer it from my previous gen. Which makes it legal for me to use it.
totallynotalyrafag
>>15578596 But aaaannoooon, that would involve actually doing something legit and having to make a team thats legit! We don't need to do that remember? Because as long as there is a way to get something in-game (even if it would takes months to get) it's perfectly ok to just hack it in!
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578597 Yes, because the knockoff would have lower value due to not being made out of official parts.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE BITS OF DATA, OR "PARTS" OF A HACKED MON COMPARED TO A BRED ONE
THEY ARE OF EQUAL VALUE UNLESS YOU FACTOR IN AUTISM
Anonymous
>>15578588 Legendaries can't have perfect IVs.
Guess how that was found out.
By hacking.
Anonymous
>>15578576 >There's nothing wrong with this >Just make sure you don't have too many shinies because it looks suspicious If there's nothing wrong with it, why do you care if it looks suspicious? Why not proudly name your hacked pokemon Hackedmon #1 or such?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578350 Pokemon has multiple aspects to it.
Say a person loves playing competitive but literally has no time to deal with breeding as he actually has a life to live outside of pokemon.
He already knows the metagame and he only wants the mon to learn learn its potential and experiment.
Breeding will forever be just a time consuming mess. No matter how easy or 'time saving' you make it.
>>15578503 And how exactly will this make you a better battler again? Oh wait it doesn't
Face it as long as GF continue to be failures at giving battlers what they want then hacking away it is. Some mons NEED move tutors.
>>15578588 Stay ass pained faggot nozi-wannabe
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578588 >1000 rare candies >not just adjusting to level 100 You're kind of retarded huh?
totallynotalyrafag
>>15578606 >want to go into some tournaments That is the worst thing ever.
Hacking in pokemon to go up against people who most likely actually took time to try and get a good team legitly, i hope they find a way to get rid of people like you in tournaments, you ruin things for everyone.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578588 Who said that it's a good thing to use that shit online? You can still hack and not be an asshole like Isiah. Hell, I've even LOWERED a couple of IV's on occasion to make it easier on the breeders. The key is to make them good but still beatable! I at least make mine look fully legal for God's sake!
Anonymous
Such a heated debate, does anyone like ditto?
Anonymous
>mfw I'm going to flood the GTS and WT with hacked mons the moment pokegen is released
Anonymous
>>15578588 Legendaries are cartridge tied since gen 5, so you can't have them be shinies if your own original wasn't. Stop talking about what you don't know.
david 4527 7795 0040
Quoted By:
>>15578419 How the hell is playing a game by the rules set out as with every game ever created not accepting new ideas? Why not just carry the ball to the net? This isnt a tech invented to make your life easier you are choosing to participate in a game with rules respect it or not. This has nothing to do with being an adult or not it entirely has to deal with the individuals moral compass. I knew about pokegen but i chose not to because it didn't sit right with me. Yes by the way you cheated accept it you tampered with the system using an outside tool if you don't care fine no need to lie.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578623 He wasn't talking about hacked shinies, he was talking about not using REAL shinies because if you have too many of them it makes you LOOK like a hacker.
Anonymous
>>15578607 you can't yet. ergo it's not legal yet.
when you will be able to, you'll be able to use the ones you transfer. as those are, you know, legal.
Anonymous
>>15578596 Yeah take that ass reaming by GF dumb as shit decisions. Your gonna love it.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578644 >implying the others don't do it Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:53:39 No. 15578684 Report >>15578654 Eh. Go for it, champ. Most of my Pokemon from breeding I've handed out on here. Good can't comprehend evil, I guess.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578648 Ditto is the original hacker. He just makes copies of fucking everything. God damned hacker.
FAKE!
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!
david 4527 7795 0040
>>15578648 God my dittos must be filthy by now.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578692 >implying that they aren't sex-crazed little sluts and loving every second of it
Quoted By:
It's one thing to use pokegen
Anonymous
It is getting something in a way the game does not support. Why not pokegen shinies, there are less then two dozen pokemon you can't legitly get as a shiny, why not get it as a shiny?`
Anonymous
>>15578503 I have been breeding for countless hours. I'm fine with people genning as long as they let me gen as well. As long as all participating parties can forgo the tedious and unnecessary process of breeding, I'm all for it.
As it stands (with us not having gen), I simply gain an advantage against other players as I am anal enough to spend hours on what pretty much constitutes a lottery.
Specifically, I went and got a ditto safari; spent 2 days farming for natures, and have been systematically breeding and rebreeding for:
-Nature
-Ability
-IVs
My fastest project was the scrafty project, which I got through in 6 hours of breeding.
This eevee project is my longest one because of the 1/8 female chance making it so I'm looking at a 1 in 100+ chance of getting a female with better IVs than what I'm using currently.
>>15578577 Except they are legal, as I can import one from the original games that the event occurred in if I received one as an event during the time. As that is possible, it favors people who were playing in one point in time over everyone else.
>>15578576 It's funny, because one of the last top competers in the VGC had 3 or so shiny legendaries thanks to his friends RNG scamming them for him
he wanted them shiny so their shiny animation would still the clock >>15578614 >Wish chansey >Ever obtainable just by playing games You had to be in NYC in 2004 to have one, and it's pretty much the only build that's useful over other walls.
Anonymous
>>15578569 I agreed to the fact it's cheating the breeding system, I'm just curious to how it's morally wrong? Your post didn't really cover anything in that to me.
>>15578586 Fair enough, just seems illogical to me to worry about such a thing.
>>15578658 >>15578620 That's actually really interesting facts Anon, do you have any other facts about IV/EVs about Pokemon to share, I'd love to read more about it personally. The way a game is coded is actually super interesting to me.
>>15578648 He's a pretty cool guy, fucks anything, makes eggs, I like em.
Anonymous
>>15578684 >Good can't comprehend evil, I guess. TOP
LEL
HOLY SHIT
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 08:56:53 No. 15578750 Report >>15578726 Well, you did say you were doing to harvest tears for enjoyment. Sounds pretty evil to me. Just saying.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
So many spiteful fan girls here over Pokegen
Anonymous
>>15578713 Why do you care so much about what others do with the game they paid money for?
Why can't you utilize proper spelling and grammar?
Why does your writing style remind me of an autistic 13 year old?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578604 Yeh, It's why I hope sugumori's statement about 'simplifying movesets' means 'we're going to take all these tutor moves and event moves and move them into your egg pool/level up pool'
It's pretty bs that I can't breed a togekiss with chansey and get wish on chansey, or breed exploud with eevee and get hyper voice on eevee.
It at least makes sense that I can't get hyper voice on gardevoir since nothing in the amorphous egg group gets hyper voice.
Anonymous
>>15578750 >implying I'm the same guy I'm not, retard, but your theoretic is just so 10 year old that I can't stop laughing.
>Good can't comprehend evil, I guess. Sure is euphoric around here.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578623 I care because I just don't like it. They stand out way too much. What's the first thing you would do if your opponent's team was all shiny? Probably an instant disconnect.
Anonymous
>>15578713 But I don't care about the making of the pokemon. I don't care about breeding. I would just leave that metaphorical casino because it's boring as shit.
The battling is the only part I care about, and that should be on an even footing, i.e. all pokemon perfect.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578678 >dumb as >your lrn2writ
Anyways, have you considered that some of us enjoy fighting on level field? Since there are no hacked mons, all you get is only what you put in the game. I would be happy if the Pokebank wasn't started as long as people aren't able to pokegen. We survived the move from Gen 2 to Gen 3 and losing all our mons, we could survive this one as well.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578644 The people who enter tournaments are the people who are RNG scamming for better IVs and their pokemon being shiny so they can stall you out.
They're pretty scummy as well, and the only reason they won't use gen is to avoid issues with legality checkers.
Anonymous
>>15578671 You're missing the entire fucking point of the statement.
If I was playing on BW2, it's equally impossible for me to get a legit wish chansey unless I time travel back to 2004, go to a pokemon center and hope I can plug in to get a chansey with it.
The only place your logic is acceptable is in the case of move tutor/egg moves that are locked into previous gens, since you can actually buy a copy of those old games, unlike a time machine.
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:03:20 No. 15578847 Report >>15578773 Happy to make you laugh. People in this thread are getting too serious anyway.
Anonymous
>>15578784 WHY should battling be on even footing? Because that's the only part you want, and you can't be arsed to put any work into it? Fuck off, go play on simulator.
Battling SHOULDN'T be on even footing. You should get precisely as much as you put in. My opinion is right, and you know why? Because GF supports it.
Anonymous
>complaining about pokegen while using the destiny knot glitch and the everstone glitch
Anonymous
>>15578822 Maybe it was intended that you could only get Wish Chansey there and only there.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578849 > Because GF supports it. Right, by denouncing Pokegen and everything like it, right? They've done that? Good. Case closed.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578784 Frankly, I don't care if people use pokegen, but if someone literally only cares about the battling, wouldn't they be better off using something like showdown?
Anonymous
>>15578854 It's not a glitch, it was programmed into the game
>dunce Leave this thread now.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
I get that some people just want to get to the competitive part of playing pokemon. I understand why using Pokegen is great for them. It saves them a lot of time, and even though I find breeding enjoyable I know other people hate it and feel like its a waste of time.
Anonymous
>>15578849 >WHY should battling be on even footing? Because it's the only part that's competitive.
If there were breeding competitions of any kind, then I'd consider hacked mons cheating.
But there aren't, so I don't.
Anonymous
>>15578847 Stop it, I can SMELL the goddamn fedora on you.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Personally, I understand completely why someone would want to pokegen a team
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578860 Maybe it was intended that winning a lotto should mean you get to use a corked bat in a baseball game.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Because people think that breeding is a important part and takes skill.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578849 >endless biking >"work" top lel
Anonymous
>>15578715 >he wanted them shiny so their shiny animation would still the clock I'm not beg into the tournament scene. What does this mean?
Anonymous
>>15578866 All glitches are programmed into games. Where do you think they come from? Cosmic rays?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578723 I don't agree with the separation of breeding and battling as unrelated systems. They're both parts of the game and the only reason that the breeding portion could be skipped while retaining a team with beneficial natures, abilities and IVs is by using something outside the system to gain an advantage.
Simply put, cheating in what you consider the breeding section to gain pokemon for the battling section is cheating in the battling section. And the reason is this, consider a person who spends time breeding up one perfect pokemon and the rest of their team is decent, then they compete against someone who hacked in perfect pokemon. The person who holds the advantage is the one who, you have already admitted, cheated to get their pokemon. In a situation where one person worked within the rules of the system is placed at a disadvantage by someone who not only didn't work for what they have but went outside the structures of the system to obtain that advantage is most definitely cheating.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15577564 Congrats, /vp/ is actually the only vidya related board in which there are discussions of whether or not cheating is bad.
Anonymous
>>15578873 Oh god, you're so dense.
Yes. Battling is competitive. Which means having your pokemon better than the other one is part of that. Which means that breeding is a fucking part of that. You idiot.
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:07:08 No. 15578902 Report >>15578876 I don't wear hats, sir. Can't a guy just be a happy person?
Anonymous
>>15578784 there exists online games for just that if you wan't equality, play that.
>>15578761 1. Because of the online aspects of it.
2. Because it does not matter, you can still understand it.
3. Because that's what you are.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578604 Try getting seismic toss on Registeel for use in the current generation. That's the pure definition of inconvenient.
Anonymous
>>15578894 Something like Destiny Knot passing down IVs isn't a glitch, it's impossible for that to NOT be programmed deliberately into the game because Destiny Knot's other function has absolutely nothing to do with IVs.
A glitch is an UNINTENDED behaviour of the code that can be exploited to the player's benefit.
Anonymous
>>15578854 Oh and don't forget about RNG abuse! Gamefreak clearly didn't intend for that to happen and yet you have people using it anyway. Some of the same ones being fervently anti hacking. Oh god, the hypocrisy I see from RNG defenders! They should just fucking accept that this and Pokegen are one and the same and move on. One is hacking by direct save manipulation. The other is hacking with a calculator.
vince 5026 4429 2630 psy abra gotholla espurr
vince 5026 4429 2630 psy abra gotholla espurr Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:09:40 No. 15578935 Report Quoted By:
Let me put it this way, if everyone used this damn thing it wouldnt make it a test of strength as a result of training but like a rock paper scissors competition to see who has the better typing cuz everyones going to have max ivs and evs in all stats, as opposed to training them and breeding them and trying to make them perfect. Cux when I loose online I know that this guy put in more effort then I did and thats why I lost rather then oh this guy chose this and gave him a move I wouldnt expect cuz he can't normally learn it damn the luck.
Anonymous
>>15578906 >You won't notice if anyone hacked while playing online because their numbers can't be higher than your numbers if you bred to perfection >Proper communication does not matter on a platform where we do nothing but communicate through text and images >NO U Yeah, great arguments, chump.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578892 Sorry, STALL the clock.
Basically rounds have a strict 1 hour limit, and each player only has 90 seconds a turn to make all decisions.
In between turns, your attack animations and switch animations also eat time. The animation of a shiny is 3 seconds longer than the animation of a non-shiny.
Because of this, by having a shiny pokemon, you can effectively remove 3 seconds from the clock whenever it switches in.
The person also talked about using Skill Swap to stall the clock as well by using skill swap to take intimidate, causing an unnecessary retrigger of intimidate to burn about 10-20 seconds from the clock.
These are tactics meant to stall for time, which is actually COMPLETELY AGAINST COMPETITIVE RULES, but they won't be stopped for doing this.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578894 Glitches are unintentional
Destiny Knot and Everstone were programmed with purpose
Once again. Leave
Anonymous
>>15578900 STOP! In a competitive game the outcome of the game should be dependent on the skill of the player. If two players are using the exact same pieces/character, then the person who wins should be the one with better skills. In Chess every queen is exactly the same. In Street Fighter every Ryu is exactly the same. In Pokemon, one Garchomp can be inherently superior to another. That should not be happening.
Anonymous
>>15578902 You're not just happy. You're
euphoric .
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578873 Dear anon. Consider the following:
1) Battling is competitive
2) How good are your pokemon depends on the breeding
Thus
3) They are not separate systems, but intertwined. If battling is competitive, then so is breeding. Just like you think about better moveset, you put hours into breeding to get the perfect pokemon.
Conclusion:
stfu, you're wrong.
Anonymous
>>15578922 So first you say destiny knot can't be a glitch because it would make no sense for it to happen by accident and then say glitches are accidents.
Sounds like proof that destiny knot is a glitch with your logic. It's really annoying how you destiny knot users are discrediting all the hard work people put into getting perfect Pokemon in the previous games by getting them in a fraction of the time.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578924 There's one important distinction between RNG abusing and Pokegenning, and that's that the RNG abused Pokemon is generated by the game itself, and the Pokegenned one by an external program. With RNG abuse you still have to level the Pokemon up and get all the moves on it.
But personally I don't give a fuck which method you use to get your Pokemon.
Kez 2964-8571-1127 (Sandshrew, Nincada, GastrodonWest)
Kez 2964-8571-1127 (Sandshrew, Nincada, GastrodonWest) Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:11:30 No. 15578962 Report Quoted By:
>>15578644 ...I never said I enter tournaments or use Pokegen
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:12:34 No. 15578982 Report Quoted By:
>>15578954 Nah. Can't make that claim. Do wish I could find a Meinfoo with the right Attack/SpDef IVs though.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578958 >So first you say destiny knot can't be a glitch because it would make no sense for it to happen by accident and then say glitches are accidents. Anonymous
>>15578951 STOP!
WHY NOT?
Using 'chess did it differently' doesn't really count as a valid excuse. This game ain't chess. This game ain't Quake. This game ain't SF. This is pokemon, and imbalance is the name of the game. Leave it or go play on simulator, but get the fuck out of here with hacked mons.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578958 It's not a glitch because Destiny Knot passing down 5 IVs was intentional. What is there to not understand?
Anonymous
>>15579012 >WHY NOT? Because a competition is a test of skill and ability. In order for it to be a fair test of skill and ability, the players need the setting they're competing in to be equal.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578924 >Hacking with a calculator >A calculator that has no direct connection to the game's data. You do realize how stupid this sounds, right? Hacking requires a direct connection to the program by definition.
Anonymous
Alright, quick poll:
Kez 2964-8571-1127 (Sandshrew, Nincada, GastrodonWest)
Kez 2964-8571-1127 (Sandshrew, Nincada, GastrodonWest) Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:18:39 No. 15579086 Report Quoted By:
>>15579075 I only breed for Natures, this IV shit is too complicated for me.
Anonymous
>>15579075 Yes.
Got around two teams worth of Pokemon bred at the moment.
Don't care as long as it's used to make things possible to get within the game's boundaries.
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion)
Chris FC: 3883-4847-1102 (FS: Psychic Munna/Espurr/Duosion) Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:20:17 No. 15579114 Report >>15579075 I breed.
I do it as a side thing while doing other stuff, but I rarely focus wholly on it. That being said, 1 to 2 hours on weekdays.
I don't mind it, but keep it to your cart.
Anonymous
>>15579075 Yes.
For 5/6 perfect IVs, in gen6, since it is easy as fuck. Sometimes whatever HP I need, but that sucks ass usually.
I don't really give a shit so long as people use legitimate moves/abilities.
Anonymous
>>15579075 Yes, I breed Pokemon for IVs, natures and Egg moves. But when I can I RNG abuse, to skip most of the tedium of the breeding process. And I'm completely 100% fine with Pokegen as long as your hacks are legal.
Anonymous
>>15579075 Natures and abilities are fairly easy to lock down with breeding. I occasionally do IV breeding but not a lot of it. Maybe one or two pokemon on my team will be IV bred. The rest will, usually, have appropriate natures and abilities but that's about it.
I feel that Pokegen is definitely cheating. If it were a single player game I wouldn't care. But considering the trading and battling aspects of pokemon I can't see it as anything good.
Anonymous
>>15579075 Nope. I don't even play these silly games. I'm just here for the autism slap-fest.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15577758 >why is it cheating? Because it's is something that is not part of the game's coding. People who play the game to get perfect pokemon are getting perfect pokemon within the game's rules. people who use an outside program to do so (because, you know, it's not in the game) are cheating. it's that simple.
Anonymous
>>15578951 See, Pokemon isn't Chess or Street Fighter. It's a totally different game, with layers that those two didn't have. Apart from executing attacks, you also hone your team.
Just because it wasn't done before, doesn't mean it should never be done. Don't stick to traditions for the sake of sticking to traditions.
Consider real sports. They are competitive. They have teams playing on same field, under same rules, but the teams are very different from each other, even if they use the same strategy and field layout. That doesn't invalidate the game. That makes it even more interesting. Training is part of those sports, just like breeding and EV training is part of Pokemon
Anonymous
>>15579075 Yes
2 perfect IVs pre-Gen VI, 5-6 in Gen VI
I dislike it, not because they're getting it faster than me but because they're breaking the rules. When you enter a competition you agree to abide by the rules.
Anonymous
>>15579075 >Do you breed? Yes
>If you do, how much do you breed for? So far I've got a Galvantula and Scizor that are pentaperfect, and a Greninja with 6 perfect IVs; I'm currently going for a Scolipede.
>How do you feel about Pokegen? I think any tool that will save me time on hatching eggs and getting me actually playing the game is absolutely fantastic.
Anonymous
>>15579075 I breed for pentaperfect, ability, egg moves and the right nature
I don't mind pokegen but it is cheating, I understand some people don't have the time I do and still want to play without getting wrecked
Anonymous
>>15579066 hurr any sport with body training involved shits on your argument. one driver is not like the other. one football team is not like the other.
stop clinging to thinking that all games should be alike.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579156 In your sports team examples, you're talking about each player's individual abilities. That's what the competition is for, to test THEIR skills. You test their skills by using the same type of ball and same type of field every time. If you wanted to bring real sports to Pokemon levels, start giving one baseball team heavier baseballs to throw than the other team.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15577564 I would think that poke gen is wrong if there were no ivs in Pokemon.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579187 >urr any sport with body training involved shits on your argument. WRONG! You're testing their ability. One driver doesn't get to race of the smooth track while the other races on the track with potholes. One football team doesn't get a heavier ball than the other.
Anonymous
Here's something I'd be curious to hear some takes on. How do you guys view Swords Dance Shedinja? It's a popular move to have on its set, but it was only possible to obtain in gen 3 and 4 due Shedinja copying Ninjask's moveset upon evolution. This was made no longer possible in gen 5, and also has not returned in gen 6. Would you consider that to be a glitch, and would you also consider Swords Dance to be legal or illegal to have on it?
Anonymous
>>15579075 Yes.
Just to get a gender and nature I want. IVs are a total luck of the draw, because they don't matter almost at all.
It's cheating, plain and simple. I don't care TOO much, because anyone using it is honestly just compensating for their poor abilities, but it DOES devalue the effort normal people put into raising their teams when you can just sneeze and have a full perfect team. If it was something programmed into the game, then it would be fine, but it's not, so it IS cheating, no matter what moral or logical stance you take.
tl;dr, it's bullshit, but it really doesn't matter. As long as they don't have pokemon with impossible stats, not much to whine about.
Anonymous
>>15579075 >Do you Breed? Yes.
>If you do, how much do you breed for? 5 IVs, nature, egg moves, ability. I only started breeding with X and Y because they made it so easy now.
How do you feel about Pokegen?
I don't mind it.
Anonymous
>>15579225 I'd treat it the same as Gen 3/4 tutor moves, legal.
Anonymous
>>15579174 >>15579168 >>15579157 >>15579151 >>15579146 >>15579125 >>15579120 >>15579114 >>15579110 >>15579228 >>15579235 So from this I think it's fairly safe to say that a decent chunk of breeders don't mind it's use because it gives them opponents on equal playing fields.
Though what I do wonder is how many of the people who are against it are full breeders. To me it feels like many of the people who are 'these people are bad and should be booted' are people who aren't breeding, as if it were a case of sour grapes.
I breed for right Nature, Ability, Pentaperfect, and Ball/Gender as well >>15579187 Not him, but if someone else can breed your pokemon for you, how is getting perfect pokemon an indicator of your skill?
If you could have someone train your body for you without taking any time or effort for you, should that be allowed?
Kez 2964-8571-1127 (Sandshrew, Nincada, GastrodonWest)
Kez 2964-8571-1127 (Sandshrew, Nincada, GastrodonWest) Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:30:48 No. 15579266 Report >>15579249 But you need to own said games to get said moves, what about newcomers into the series who started with X&Y? Why should they be left out?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579225 Completely legal and not a glitch. If you can legitimately obtain it and transfer it up, then there should be no issue.
Anonymous
>>15579228 >compensating for poor abilities to what? waste more time doing meaningless tedious grinding and counting for something that can be achieved in a few seconds?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
BECAUSE GOD MODE IS FUN FOR 5 MINUTES
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579266 They can still get it by buying it used or asking someone with the games.
Anonymous
>>15579266 In a perfect world, Gamefreak would just make it a TM move that Shedinja can learn. Newcomers to the series can get a Gen 4 game and transfer a Shedinja up from it all the way to X/Y, just like everyone else.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
OP redefines the meaning of the word cheating: The Thread
Anonymous
>>15579258 For non breeders, they were probably fine with it when people playing the game more than them and getting really into the game had better mons than them, but when people can just cheat and get them easy, it probably pisses them off. Now it's not just a case of the better players having better stuff that they worked for, it's a case of cheaters also having better stiff. It kills online in most games.
As a light breeder, I think that anyone using pokegen should just use showdown. There is no reason other than to make others mad or win easier that they should stick with the real games. Showdown offers them even more convenience when teambuilding, makes battling (the part they care the most about) even more accessible and faster, and offers opponents on an even playing field. Sticking with the cart means they have to wade through pokegen, and casuals to find a possibly decent battle, all the while getting accused of cheating.
Anonymous
>>15579258 Think from a manager's perspective. Or a trainer, if you will.
To get a good player, you need to give something of equal value (money). In pokemon, the economy is based around pokemon. You give me something, I give you something in return. You want that sweet Volcarona I just bred, you better be ready to give me something cool in return. Which means you put in some time to get that sweet Volcarona (by breeding your pokemon that you traded with me).
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579272 Well... yeah. I shows you lack patience, and really don't enjoy the game. Yes, "wasting time" (breeding) is part of the game, and is the only way to get perfect pokemon without cheating. If you aren't, it's clear you don't care for the games as much as the people doing it. Take that as you will.
Anonymous
>>15579346 >I think that anyone using pokegen should just use showdown This is what I don't get either. If they want to generate teams to compete why not use a system like showdown? It makes me think they want to use hacked pokemon against people who don't have perfect stat pokemon so they can gain an unfair advantage.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579286 I don't understand why they even bothered to remove that in the first place. It's not like Shedinja was overpowered and needed a nerf.
Anonymous
>>15579384 >>15579346 Some people just wish to battle on their 3DS in a new system. I can understand wanting to use that as a competitive environment since it's much more visually appealing and rewarding.
Anonymous
>>15579400 >and rewarding Especially when cheating, I guess.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579384 Showdown sometimes doesn't have the correct implementations of moves, especially since it's a new generation.
Anonymous
>>15579400 Then be fair about it and play on the same playing field as the others playing it. As it stands, they are going to be hacking in perfect, powerful pokemon to wipe the floor with casuals and kids much, MUCH more than the competitive battlers they really want to fight, who are mostly on showdown. Me, I don't breed for IVs, it takes to long for my preferences. I'm not going to just hack in perfect pokemon because I'm to lazy to play the game.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579353 But then the Athlete analogy fails.
If you can circumvent 'training' by having money and delegating your work to someone else; what makes it wrong to delegate your work to the skills of someone else in a different manner (someone getting into the system and making it easier to get what you wanted)?
Basically, you can't argue that gen is wrong because it 'removes the need of the skill of breeding from the participating party' when the ability to delegate that to someone else is perfectly legitimate.
Basically, the only reason you'd have to be against it is because it's directly against the rules, no more, no less.
>>15579384 I do it because I play against other people using gen; since I actually like being able to play while not at the computer.
Anonymous
I'm having a blast on my Pokemon Breeding game
Anonymous
The same reason why the generation of faggots who grew up with Pokemon can barely do anything else outside unless it's for something they really want:
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579436 You keep acting like just because you don't find part of the game fun that gives you the right to cheat and avoid it. It's cheating, no matter how much you hate the real game.
Rin 4124 - 5859 - 0317 (Pumpkaboo, Lampent, Duskclops)
Rin 4124 - 5859 - 0317 (Pumpkaboo, Lampent, Duskclops) Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:44:40 No. 15579466 Report Pokegen is cheating. I'm not about to force my beliefs on someone else and tell you cheating is wrong, but just look at Pokegen as cheating and decide what you think of it then.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579466 But it's not cheating because... Because uh... Because I don't want it to be! XD
Anonymous
>>15579420 >>15579429 If everyone is capable of being on the same level it's harmless cheating at worst in my eyes and still do not see the issue still.
Also other anons have given good reasons to why they wouldn't mind using Pokegen battle legal Pokemon on their 3DS as well above me.
Anonymous
>>15579450 from what year to what year is generation Y Rin 4124 - 5859 - 0317 (Pumpkaboo, Lampent, Duskclops)
Rin 4124 - 5859 - 0317 (Pumpkaboo, Lampent, Duskclops) Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:47:36 No. 15579498 Report >>15579483 >harmless cheating The issue is multiplayer. There are people using cheated 'mon on multiplayer to battle people who didn't cheat. There's not really a real reason to care about people cheating if you'll never play with them or talk to them. Cheating in multiplayer is awful. It's like secondhand smoking mixed with rape.
Anonymous
>>15579483 >If everyone is capable of being on the same level it's harmless cheating at worst in my eyes and still do not see the issue still Because not everybody IS going to cheat. The accessibility of a cheat doesn't justify the cheating itself.
Anonymous
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059 Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:48:12 No. 15579507 Report So, I'm seeing a lot of people debate (or have shouting matches) about the legitimacy, the morality, etc of using pokegen/RNG abusing to get hacked pokes. Some have mentioned it, but there's one side to this argument that's being underrepresented: VGC
Anonymous
Breeders don't even compete so its moot point.
Anonymous
>>15579507 > I just don't get it...if you wanna play with artificially perfect pokemon why not use Showdown? because Showdown isn't a 3D battle engine
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579483 I understand it's harmless cheating. I don't actually care enough to do more than post a bit on 4chan about it because I can still win, even with my not-perfect pokemon team. It's a non-issue for me.
The problem is that it's really, really unfair to the casuals who play online and to the people who do breed for perfect pokemon that somebody who doesn't play the game gets rewarded for it. It's cheating, harmless or not, and that's unfair to everyone.
>>15579520 You're a moron if you think that.
Anonymous
>>15579520 Firstly, that's bullshit. Secondly, even if it were true, that gives cheaters less justification for cheating, not more. So what, you need hacked pokemon to compete against all the kids with their unevolved Pikachus and shitty typing?
Anonymous
>>15579548 Too bad. Don't cheat, and you can use the 3D battle engine as a reward for not being a fucking cheater.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579560 Children are the future unless we stop them now
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059 Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:53:16 No. 15579579 Report >>15579548 But just because you bought a cartridge with a 3D battle engine doesn't mean you've earned the "right" to bypass the in-game paramaters and bring hacked data into the normally untouched game space, i.e. wi-fi, GTS, WT just because you "want to".
Anonymous
>>15579507 Yeh, and the people who are winning aren't doing their own breeding either (they have other people do their breeding for them while they do actual testing).
These same people who are playing with 'legit' pokemon are also breaking the rules in other manners (see the mention of stalling earlier), that isn't getting enforced upon.
In this case, you are simply discussing cheating on a technical level, which I'm fairly sure no one would argue against; rather this is the issue of cheating on a moral level, the place where the grey area stands.
Anonymous
Only /vp/ could think that running around on a bike back and forth is a good game mechanic and shouldn't be handled with foreign software. Breeding mechanics are a serious issue with Pokemon that is just not fun whatsoever and should be removed entirely. Before they do, people will use Pokegen unless they are autists competing at official events where they get a trophy for having a lot of free time.
Anonymous
>>15579450 Yes, Pokegen is cheating, but why does it matter when the end result is the same as what one can get from breeding? No one can even tell a well made hack apart from a Pokemon generated by the game itself if it's done well enough. Heck, for all you know, I could have gone to Japan back in 2005, and gotten myself a Wynaut with Tickle from the event. You can't prove that I didn't.
Honestly, I've been on both ends of the spectrum. I've genned, and I've bred up a few teams worth of Pokemon this time around. At the end of the day, it's a game aimed at children meant to be played for fun. There are many more important things in life to get angry and concerned about than some hex values on someone's video game save.
And seriously, get off your high horse. You're no better than the people who act condescending to those who choose not to hack.
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059 Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:55:22 No. 15579607 Report >>15579580 I'm not advocating for shit like stall tactics, betting posses to breed for you, etc either. VGC's got some bullshit surrounding it caused by douchy lazy players, but that doesn't validate more cheating...
Anonymous
>>15579563 >>15579579 Or I can use Pokegen and use the 3D battle engine and you can suck my dick
Anonymous
>>15579595 I don't think breeding is fun and I think IVs are a blight that need to be abolished. However, the answer most definitely isn't cheating to bypass it just because I don't like it.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579611 too bad anon, this is GF's fault
Anonymous
>>15579610 I wasn't aware you could pokegen on the 3ds yet... Oh, that's because you can't. Enjoy being a cunt with shit tactics and a shit team because you're too lazy to even ask somebody else to breed for you.
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059 Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:57:33 No. 15579633 Report >>15579610 which is totally representing yourself and the community well, btw. I bet you're one of those kiddies that pirates indie games "because they can"
Anonymous
>>15579498 >>15579504 >secondhand smoking mixed with rape. That is the most hilarious thing I've read all day.
Secondly, what about people who breed perfect IVs then, they're still on the same playing field as their competitor who did cheat. I see no issue since they both are playing on an equal field in the first place. Hence, harmless cheating. The cheater here is not using any advantage he could not normally get otherwise.
The most I see is a moral implication that what they're doing is wrong because they simply bypassed a part of the game they don't agree with.
Someone compared breeding to piracy either, and the most I think about it the most I'm drawing on the conclusion that perhaps it is the same issue.
Piracy is an issue with service. Breeding is something that actively bothers players despite how easy it is. It's still a time consuming process that is not engaging in the slightest. If breeding was made fun and easy (yes even easier than now), I don't feel like the need for a service like Pokegen would be requested nearly as much. Just my two cents though.
Anonymous
>>15579632 enjoy tasting my dick when your amount of free time won't save you in a real competitive environment, that is if you even compete
>>15579633 nope
Anonymous
>>15579607 The main point I'm getting at is that you're discussing cheating on a technical level rather than the moral level.
Specifically, the reason for it being wrong in the VGC is because it's against the rules of the VGC (which aren't enforced well, I would call BS on stall tactics as well)
Though it honestly becomes the case of YGO where you have the argument 'is it alright to use proxies?' wherein proxies remove the advantage of having money to buy cards.
The morality of 'cheating' in this case comes from the reasoning for something to be illegal (in this case, proxies are illegal as to ensure konami earns money)
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059 Mon 04 Nov 2013 10:01:23 No. 15579686 Report Quoted By:
>>15579661 I can smell your sweaty basement dweller tears
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578773 >>15578876 >>15578954 Man, you're trying really hard at this aren't you? Is it your first time? Keep at it friend, you'll get the hang of it soon enough.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
The best thing I read in my whole life was in this thread.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
There isn't really much of a downside though, it's not like an aimbot you get in fps games, you can't train yourself to immediately point and shoot some ones head no matter how good your reaction time is.
Anonymous
Are the same people against Pokegen also against pirating?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Think of it this way, GF is like a group marathon directors. They set up a course to follow, the game was created with a "tedious and boring" (I actually enjoy breeding) course to follow. Even though we all get to the finish, the intended route wasn't taken, it becomes invalid regardless of legitimacy or method of achievement. Also; I don't suppose the world championship tournament would be very sporting if it came down to player A and B with effortless teams tossing flavorless attacks. Not to say all pokegen trainers do that. I can really only understand using pokegen in cases of need. For example I wanted a Glaceon but in Soul Silver there was no method to produce one. I dont own DPP but played a friends copy later
Anonymous
>>15579657 I don't really think they are on equal grounds. Because as it's already been said, some event pokemon are just no longer available.
If you and your opponent had the exact same team, with IVs, natures, etc, but the hacker has a Wish Blissey, would you really say they are on equal grounds?
The only wait to obtain it would be to either have been there in the first place, or hack it yourself.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579600 because a) it's unfair to the people who put time into it b) just because you can't tell it apart doesn't mean it's any less acceptable, i wish you faggots would stop using that excuse.
the whole being a children's game is the same bread and butter excuse as smash bros not being a competitive game
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579610 pokegen users everybody, give him a hand!
Anonymous
>>15579682 Morality is a human construct regardless. At the end of the day, regarding this topic, its about money. Cheaters pay for the game too. Why would you circumvent cheating if it discourages someone from buying your product?
The only reason cheating is discouraged by VGC is because its an official event, hosted by the creators and distributors themselves and have to maintain a sense of integrity while their product is being presented.
But if people who don't want to participate in official tourneys and just want to hack to skip tedious breeding, why would you ever want to do that as a businessman?
Anonymous
>>15579714 >putting in pokemon into a game you bought >not buying a game Errr...what?
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>15579743 The same goes for the inverse.
>If you and your opponent had the exact same team, with IVs, natures, etc, but the player has a Wish Blissey because they were playing in 2004, would you really say they are on equal grounds? Event pokemon are BS before this gen because they aren't consistently available.
>>15579771 Because of the online where people could be discouraged from playing more. Of course at the same time legitimate breeders do the exact same thing to non-breeders.
This is why crits exist in the game. They say it's to make the game 'more interesting', but in reality it's simply there to give players who don't put in any effort to develop skill the ability to win and want to continue playing.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579792 It's just a question of correlation
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15578938 Irrelevant.
Implying grammar has ever mattered
Considering you had to start with the insults, it kinda shows that it rustled your jimmies.
Also if you don't want to breed, then use this
http://pokemonshowdown.com/ It's just the same thing, only easier then pokegen.
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059 Mon 04 Nov 2013 10:10:36 No. 15579829 Report >>15579682 I get what you're saying, but I feel like it's a moot point by then.
Take the proxy example. If proxies were allowed competitively, and nobody ever really needed to own the cards as long as they had a guide online with all the card rulings, why did the card game need to exist in the first place?
I know I'm being a bit nitpicky here, especially since there really isn't a right answer. A card game exists to make a profit (sell cards, tournament entry fees, etc), as well as provide a competitive product that' supposedly balanced and a good social environment so the cycle can continue. You could argue GF's lackluster ball-busting when it comes to illicit tactics/mannerisms/poke acquisition is just as much to blame, but that still means the other half of the equation still exists (crowds of people being dicks/hacking/etc to get what they want rather than bringing concerns formally to GF and Pokemon Intl.). With that said, people are assholes and stupid and stuff.
I feel like we mostly agree on this, we're just stuck in a syntax war :P Gah, IV's should just be redone/removed, they've just caused more grief to the game. EVs have improved a lot with super training, so they can stay!
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>15579796 great argument anon!
Anonymous
With this logic, does that mean using pokegen to obtain shinies for the purpose of having a more aesthetically pleasing team is completely fine too?
Anonymous
>>15579816 >Of course at the same time legitimate breeders do the exact same thing to non-breeders. Breeders exert no effort to obtain a team of perfect pokemon and then battle against people who don't have a team of perfect pokemon?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579075 Yes
Before this gen I breed for shinies only, this gen, it is so easy to get 5 perfect iv on a pokemon now.
Pokegen all you want as long as you keep it to your cart, in regards to online battles and trade.
Anonymous
>>15579854 I personally think so, yes.
>>15579866 To be quite frank, you can't really justify bike riding as less or more effort than clicking in my eyes.
More time consuming, yes, more effort? No.If it was an active skill to breed then yes, I could say I could agree to this, but, breed takes no more effort than pokegenning.
Anonymous
>>15579836 >>15579830 >Morality is a human construct regardless. At the end of the day, regarding this topic, its about money. wow so avant-garde I may have come down with 8th grader syndrome
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059 Mon 04 Nov 2013 10:17:37 No. 15579908 Report Quoted By:
>>15579075 >Do you Breed? Yes
>If you do, how much do you breed for? I breed to the 5/6 IV point, sometimes I give up at 4 (damn ralts wouldn't give it 5 IVs for me) and I always breed with the chance of Masuda'ing something in the process.
>How do you feel about Pokegen? Don't use it for official event (VGC, local leagues, any tournament with prizes) and wi-fi randoms, don't trade them on WT/GTS. Other than that I don't give a damn.
Anonymous
>>15579829 >why did the card game need to exist in the first place? Because the card game is the culmination of the card rulings. 'Legal Cards' are nothing more than an officially produced proxy, and the method that the company makes money.
Honestly this is what I think GF needs to do:
-No more event moves (or at least after events end, they make the move breedable into pokemon)
-Remove IVs, or make breeding for IVs something that is influencable by skill instead of being a lotto (a minigame that allows you to make the overall IVs of a pokemon better if you do well sounds like it would be cool)
-Same for other aspects of the child.
Basically breeding and moves as it is are BS because breeding is lottery, and some moves favor people who live in certain locations and/or were playing at a certain time period.
>>15579866 No, breeders obtain a team of perfect pokemon then proceed to consistently beat people with imperfect teams.
The people who are being discouraged don't give a shit if the other person was 'genning' or not (since they don't know); they only care that they were beaten be it by someone legitimate or not.
Anonymous
>>15579816 So? There are a shit ton of hackers who aren't playing online right now either and waiting on Pokegen. Nobody cares about people getting discouraged from playing online. Its a matter of whether or not they buy the game. If breeding for IVs became an inanely effortless endeavor for future games would breeders stop buying the games just because for that sole reason? Unless the person goes "man i can't wait to fucking ride my bike around in pokemon and hatch hundreds of thousands of eggs, its my favorite part!" then I really fucking doubt it. If GameFreak circumvented cheating for good, hackers wouldn't give one damn cent. It's a financial mistake to do so.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579075 Yes.
Depends. I don't look for 6, 5, or sometimes even 4 perfect IVs. I'll take anything from the 25 to 31 range, with the exception of HP, and on things that need it, Speed. Why? On things that need Speed, even having 30 Speed IVs puts you at a disadvantage in comparison to something with 31 Speed IVs. Speed tiers are a fickle thing, and if something outspeeds you that should be tying or a point below, it puts you at a serious disadvantage.
Pokegen was acceptable to me prior to this generation. Getting 3+ IVs was a very time consuming matter. With Destiny Knot, I feel Pokegen has outlived it's use, now that Game Freak has made an attempt to make breeding more friendly to players. Breeding gets much, much easier once you build up a selection of parents which came about as a result from your attempts to get decently IV'd pokemon, which speeds up future breeding attempts.
Anonymous
>>15579894 >To be quite frank, you can't really justify bike riding as less or more effort than clicking in my eyes. And the way to tell that this is bullshit is that if it were true you'd be breeding instead of pokegenning. Even the act of spending time on a task is exerting effort. You might not view it highly but it's a damn sight more effort than the people who are cheating expending. Hell, even the players who don't breed expended more effort. At least they caught their own pokemon.
Anonymous
>>15579895 do you even know how to make coherent arguments? it's like you just shit out words when you see something you don't agree with
you probably had 8th grader syndrome before you even started browsing this board
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579829 Before gen 6 I felt IV's and EV's to be completely pointless. Before it was just RNG abuse, something that is really close to cheating.
Thanks to Friend Safari and Destiny Knot getting IV's is easy.
With SuperTraining it makes EV training somewhat fun instead of having to grind the same pokemon 120 times, and you can't do fight anything else till you are done fighting all the Geodudes, and that is for one EV.
Anonymous
>>15579929 It's not about the breeders. It's about there being some inordinant amount of difficulty which reduces the amount of perfect pokes, giving more chance to non-breeders/non-genners to win in battle and be encouraged to buy the next game.
Anonymous
>>15579952 what do you think I am arguing
I am curious
Anonymous
>>15579964 Critical hits are not that significant advantage. The gap between experience and inexperience is far too great.
People who are bad at competitive aren't paying to play competitive in the first place, they are paying to play the game. They pay for competitive when they learn more about it, that is if that's what they are mainly into, they could learn more about it and still like other things about the game more. I wouldn't take an amateur's thoughts on the competitive aspect of the game too seriously, I would want to consider the people who are waving money for competitive a lot more.
Anonymous
>>15580004 how could anything you have said represent an argument? you're nothing short of 150% retarded
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059
Allegr0 (noibat, gabite, Druddigon) 4270-0873-0059 Mon 04 Nov 2013 10:27:21 No. 15580032 Report >>15579911 Amen to pretty much all of that.
I>Because the card game is the culmination of the card rulings. 'Legal Cards' are nothing more than an officially produced proxy, and the method that the company makes money.
I get you there...the thing that just gets to me is that at the end of the day the game wouldn't exist if Konami didn't make the game in the first place.
Maybe to transition to a more tangible sport, like basketball. Basketball has set rules, various levels of official leagues, etc. If you were to illegally wax a basketball or some shit to fuck with the other team you'd get thrown out in an instant since its against the rules...but if you and your friends have "slickball" as a silly game you use your friend's hoop for at home then nobody's gonna tell you you're doing anything wrong since you're just fucking around.
Obviously Pokemon, YGO, and basketball are all very different so maybe I should stop rambling. I would've gone to bed if I didn't have to register for classes in an hour.
But yeah, the IV idea would work wonders, and I can imagine them handling event moves by doing a forced online update of move tutors the same day event pokes start going out, that way anyone playing online or at an event's at an even playing field in that regard even after the event.
Anonymous
>>15580024 it was the edgiest possible way of saying "it's about money"
i didn't think it would hurt you this much
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579911 >-Remove IVs, or make breeding for IVs something that is influencable by skill instead of being a lotto Wing Items become prizes from mini-games. Instead of adding +1EV in a stat, they permanently raise a pokemon's IV by 1 in a stat.
Anonymous
>>15580007 But the casual market is the largest market for pokemon. Crits exist to give those people the occasional win. It's the skinner box effect, where you give them the occasional treat to keep them interested.
This is why luck is put into many games.
>>15580032 Of course. The key is to realize that for official leagues the reason for following the rules is simply a mutual agreement based on all parties, rather than for any specific moral reason.
Anonymous
>>15580052 not really hurt, just actually giving enough effort to type this and a captcha to convey how retarded I think you are for using such stupid words
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15579946 Except I don't even Pokegen anon. I'm just saying it doesn't require any extra effort to breed. You're moving your thumbing left and right, looking to the screen for a few moments to see if a npc validates your Pokemon's worth, and then back to moving your thumb left and right to hatch more eggs. The only thing exhausting about it would be the boredom you'd experience if you weren't doing something else while doing it.
Pokegen is a service problem at the end of the day.
Anonymous
>>15580076 I think you are overestimating the impact of critical hits. Doesn't factor into sales whatsoever.
Anonymous
>>15580082 >dismissing as "buzzwords" just as easy as not making an argument at all
Anonymous
>>15580103 you can't argue anything when you use the word edgy in the first place, its not even a basis of argument, aside from the fact that we are arguing about it. you want me to explain why my opinion isn't edgy? I can't because its such a subjective expression in the first place so there is no reason to even use it other than to breath pointless banter you fucking retard
Anonymous
>>15579911 >-No more event moves (or at least after events end, they make the move breedable into pokemon) This only became possible with X and Y, you can't change every single games code to make it possible to suddenly breed new moves onto pokemon, it would have to be patched in.
>-Remove IVs, or make breeding for IVs something that is influencable by skill instead of being a lotto (a minigame that allows you to make the overall IVs of a pokemon better if you do well sounds like it would be cool) Why? Having an even easier way to get capped IV's? See, you don't realize IV's, nature, and everything else about a pokemon is determined by a PID, and changing one thing changes the PID, which is why fucking around with gamesharks and stats caused so many bad eggs.
Anonymous
>>15580141 I am glad we at least agree that it was edgy
Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15580193 because that really was ALL I was saying there
it couldn't have been worded in a more laughable way
if that is something you wish to shit your diaper about, then have at it
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15580097 Except that I'm not. I played against a friend who I consistently beat last gen during this gen 5 times. The first game we played, he killed my aegislash because he got 5 hits with his bone rush along with the 3rd being a crit (I know it took all of that, because slash didn't die till the last hit, and each of his hits was doing insufficient damage to kill). The turn after I killed that pokemon, I take his next to red. His pokemon uses blizzard, hits and gets the freeze, and I proceed not to unfreeze in the next 3 turns.
Over the next 4 games, none of these things happen and I win consistently.
I'm not saying that crit mattered happens very often, I'm saying that in the few rare cases that it does happen, it rewards that player who got it for no reason and incentivizes them to play more. It's just like the lottery. You don't win often enough to profit, but you still win sometimes, and that drives you to play more.
>>15580142 If I made an event during RS, I could make that event move breedable for it in FRLG, or even in the next gen altogether just as easily as putting in new moves/changing move tutor learnsets.
You don't even need to revise the system too much, it's simply making it so that you can play minigames to garner additional effects (like say playing a minigame that guarantees the speed EV of a specific parent gets passed down)
Anonymous
>>15577564 >You don't bond with your Pokemon Thanks to breeder moves, IV's, natures and hidden abilities that's already a fact.
Anonymous
>>15580236 THIS.
3 days ago I was hanging out with my friends, and one of my buddies literally sang a parody of the original pokemon theme about the subject (incorporating my name since it was discussing my philosophy I was presenting during breeding).
Suffice it to say, my 'breeding program' would be nothing short of eugenics in real life, especially since I 'threw away' like 80 babies while making my perfect babies.
heck, I've probably thrown out a good 60 eevees tonight because I've been trying to breed for female with more 31s than the previous gen to increase the chances of perfect children, and it just made me realize how much I hate GF for making many pokemon have imbalanced gender ratios.
Anonymous
>>15580300 Well then don't do that, you stupid idiot, if you hate how you're "stuck" just HAVING to breed the perfect pokemon, it's no ones fault but your own that you're not bonding with yours. I bond with mien just fine, I breed the one I want, give it a name, take it to the amie, max its hearts, and level it to either 50 or whichever level it learns the moves I need it to know.
Anonymous
>>15580351 or he could Pokegen it and not have to toss millions of Pokebabies out to the wilds to be killed.
breeders are Hitler Anonymous
>>15580351 But that's the thing. That perfect pokemon is the one I bond with. I don't bond with it because I bred it to be perfect (all the breeding did was make me hate some aspects of the species and the mechanics), that pokemon doing awesome things with me in Super Training/PokeAmie/Actual Battles is what makes those bonds.
And for the battles part it is very likely I need those perfect spreads, especially when I have to spread out EVs like taffy in order to make sure it does it's job well enough (Like what my anti-blaziken salamence needed)
Anonymous
>>15580377 Almost 300 posts to invoke Godwin's Law? I am ASHAMED of you, /vp/. I expected this much sooner out of you.
Anonymous
>>15580377 Well, fuck. We've hit Godwin's Law, thread over.
Anonymous
>>15580381 I bond with my pokemon actually playing the game not rushing with an overleveled starter just to beat the E4 to get more options.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>15580432 Except I did the same thing. I played the game for 4-6 days before hitting the E4, then got engrossed with breeding methods after that.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15580432 and how is that an argument for pokegen?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15580377 >Baaaawwwww stop doing everything you can to get the best pokemon possible, its not fair to all the rejects! Oh, i'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feeling, you prissy little bitch fag, if you wanna sit content with imperfect pokemon and call everyone else hitler for trying, then when you're first born gets the downs, you better not euthanize that poor bastard, because i'll be filling the adoption parlors with my 90/10 aryan master race rejects, because 9/10 is still not 10/10.
Anonymous
>>15580459 If you truly bonded with your pokemon(in 4-6 days I doubt that) You wouldn't heartlessly whore them out to other pokemon just to get their perfect offspring.
Anonymous
>>15580519 oh wow so we're not even allowed to play the game "legitimately" now?
Anonymous
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15580519 I'm not.
The only pokemon on my ingame team that I'm running in postgame is Garde/Aegi, and the ingame ones aren't even being whored out. Though I will admit, one good thing does come from the breeding, and that is 'I get to play poke-claus' by passing out Quadperfect babies who didn't meet the standard but were near the end of the breeding project
which is similar to what would happen with genning anyways, as one person would take orders for teams and make them for everyone so all the people could be on the same playing field. Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15577564 Putting all the butthurt aside, it actually has a negative impact on the online part of the game. People like to feel like they've achieved something with their time - perfect IV Pokémon, EV trained Pokémon and shinies are things people invest time in getting. Then they get to show them off online as a reward.
Except when all of those can be created in about a minute with an online generator, especially shinies, all that effort effectively becomes worth nothing to other people and all you're left with is the feeling of "Heh, I bred that.". But what does it matter any more? Shinies especially suffer from this when every faggot hacks in shiny Pokémon and either battles online with them or floods the GTS with hacked mons.
Looking at it from a battling point of view, hacking does actually also have an effect on the unranked battles as it allows people to get perfect stat legendaries to use online, which would usually counterbalance using legendaries somewhat and something most people wouldn't bother doing. It even effects rated battles in regard to the minor legendaries usable there; you wouldn't see nearly as many Landorus with perfect stats, nature and Hidden Power type if people couldn't hack them. The offset to legendaries should be that it's hard to get ones with good stats as you can't breed them, but this is circumvented by hacking/simulators and actually changes the online metagame because you get a shitload of hacked perfect legendaries like Landorus, Terrakion and Keldeo running around (all of which would not be anywhere near as overused as they are if you couldn't gen them).
Overall, I don't really care about the matter either way. I hacked Pokémon back in Gen 4. These days I breed because it's so easy and I find it more satisfying. But you asked for reasons so there they are.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15580537 I didn't say that, I said that you don't really bond with your pokemon if you're dump them in a daycare/box after the E4 anyways.
Anonymous
>>15580519 Actually, wrong. I really took my time playing this gen. It took me 4 days to get to the E4, and my lead was already lvl100 by the time I hit Victory Road, due to happiness (I didn't know it affected the XP, I just played with it because it was fun), and looking into every nook and corner to find all the pokes I could. I even took time to make a theme team.
And then it was time for my starter to go sit on a bench. He helped me a lot, and deserved rest. And some boinking! He will never stop being important to me, but that doesn't mean his offspring can't become important AS WELL.
Anonymous
>>15580519 >Hey, Gardevoir, I know we've had our ups and downs through the league, so let me make it up to you, this is the daycare center, it's like a spa, and this is Gallade. I know how rough you've had it being the main tank and dragging my sorry ass through the elite four,so i'm gonna let you and Gallade have some one on one time together to ease your stress. Yeah, because thats totally not being a good trainer at all.
Anonymous
>>15580595 >and when your child isn't perfect I'm going to fucking kill him or give him randomly to a stranger. Yeah, good trainer my ass, stop trying to save face breeder scum.
Anonymous
>>15580590 >>15580595 >You helped me a lot team now you can spend eternity as data in a computer with your incest offspring that wasn't perfect. Anonymous
>>15580590 >I really took my time playing this gen >It took me 4 days to get to the E4 That's not taking your time dude, I was a good two weeks in before I even got to the E4.
>>15580610 >being this irrationally mad It's like you're a grill or something.
>>15580629 >implying letting a pokemon retire after a long fought adventure isn't the right thing to do Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15580639 Compared to how I played previous gens? That's goddamn snailpace. Not that it's bad, and I'm not saying that I couldn't do it slower, but for me that's really really really long.
Anonymous
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>>15580639 And what if I am breeding faggot?
Anonymous
>>15580639 >Let them rot as data in a computer or using them as breeding machine. >retire Releasing them would be more a kind to retirement, that is if pokemon you bested the E4 with immediately makes them tired old and wearied out.
Anonymous
>>15580690 >Hey, thanks for the help, get the fuck out of my sight forever Yeah, cause that's a nice thing to do.
Anonymous
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>>15580713 >get the fuck out of my sight forever Boxing is the same thing at least with releasing you give them freedom.
Anonymous
op is just trying to justify cheating. it was well-written.
Anonymous
>>15581041 Honestly, it's what lawmakers and ethicists do every day.
Specifically, we should be saying 'this is bad for this reason, and therefore it is justified in being against the rules' rather than settling for 'this is against the rules, therefore it is bad'
Anonymous
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>>15581121 This is the best response all thread.
Anonymous
>>15577564 OP, your question was answered by the very first reply, and it should have /threaded right there.
It's cheating. There are no extra parts, no extra connotations, nothing. It's simply cheating.
The reason it causes problems are people have problems with cheating, regardless of anything else. The fact that it is cheating in the first place is the problem. It's kind of similar to people who get really upset over any kind of censorship, regardless of anything else.
Anonymous
