/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #15617414

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Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:35:11 No.15617414 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>15617450 >>15617775 >>15617870 >>15618862 >>15620660 >>15622791

Bug needs a buff
Ice needs a buff

ITT: We fix both

Bonus: make an individual nerf for scizor because bug is getting buffed

Ice
>resists water
>blizzard stays at 120 power
>Hits normal on steel

Bug
>Hits normal on Ghost
>Hits normal on Fairy
>(i dont know what else)

Share your opinions. Give reasons why you agree or disagree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:38:16 No.15617438 Report

Quoted By: >>15617494

There are only three things that need to be done:
- Hail cuts the speed of all non-ice types
- Ice does neutral damage to steel
- Bug does neutral damage to fairy

Sorted.

Sickeny:0559 7956 4738 ice: sneasal, snowver, piloswine

Sickeny:0559 7956 4738 ice: sneasal, snowver, piloswine Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:39:05 No.15617450 Report

Quoted By: >>15617498

>>15617414
ice is SE on water
bug immune to poison
also make the early bug pokemon (butterfree and beedrill ect) evolve slightly later and buff their stats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:40:16 No.15617471 Report

Quoted By:

while bug is a pretty bad type, bug pokemon are often good. it makes a great dual type to certain other types.

ice does need a buff though. more than any other type. it relies on it's dual types instead of enhancing them. stab moves are nice but that's all it has to offer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:42:08 No.15617492 Report

Quoted By: >>15617514

GF hates Bug, they figure that since we got U-Turn and Scizor it's ok to shit on us.

Not as much as they hate Ice though. I really am sorry for Ice trainers.

Unfortunately, bug doing neutral damage to fairy will just make U-turn more abundant on anything.

My proposition is:
-Limit Sneaky Pebbles to 25% life.
-Hail prevents usage of priority moves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:42:13 No.15617494 Report

Quoted By: >>15617580

>>15617438

Yeah more weather fags, terrible idea...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:42:27 No.15617498 Report

Quoted By: >>15617554 >>15618849

>>15617450
>bug immune to poison
you do realize you are making poison terrible again. it just gained a slight amount of usefulness this gen man.

>also make the early bug pokemon (butterfree and beedrill ect) evolve slightly later and buff their stats.
>buff their stats.
this was already done

>ice is SE on water
just make ice resist grass and ground. or grass and water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:43:41 No.15617514 Report

Quoted By: >>15617545

>>15617492
weather was nerfed this gen. buffing hail only buffs abomasnow. sneaky pebbles are no the reason ice and bug are mediocre.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:44:11 No.15617520 Report

Quoted By: >>15617542

I don't think steel needs another defensive nerf

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:45:58 No.15617542 Report

Quoted By: >>15617591

>>15617520
I think the nerf is worth it when you are buffing one of the least used and weaker types.

Dark was already great before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:46:00 No.15617545 Report

Quoted By: >>15617591

>>15617514
True enough, still, 5 turns of no bullet/mach punch/prankster anything is a really nice bonus. And so far this meta seems to be focused on priority

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:46:48 No.15617554 Report

Quoted By: >>15617616 >>15617622

>>15617498
Beedrill was buffed?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:49:21 No.15617580 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617494
Hail needs something to stand out as a weather. Most pokes that play decent in it are slow and bulky, and yet, unlike sand it doesn't really give any advantages aside from blizzard and easily negligible damage.

If you're not willing to buff ice itself then you need to buff one of the only things they could really take advantage of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:49:37 No.15617591 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617542
dark was not great. ghost was. ghost is now a bit too good. there is no reason to nerf steel to buff anything. the only types which should be nerfed are ground, fighting, dragon, and water. everything else is either pretty balanced or lacking. ghost withstanding potentially.

>>15617545
at the moment the meta is focused on talonflame. speed has always been at the forefront of competitive play but never has it been coupled with ridiculous offenses in the same way. priority brave bird is simply ridiculous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:50:19 No.15617601 Report

Quoted By: >>15617629 >>15617635 >>15617642

Ice no longer weak to ground
Bug resists Dark and Psychic

There you go!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:51:48 No.15617616 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617554
beedrill has higher attack this gen than before. they raised it. butterfree has higher special attack as does beautifly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:52:38 No.15617622 Report

Quoted By: >>15619505

>>15617554
same as Butterfree. 10 points to att/spatt.

Not a lot, but it IS a buff.

Also, pidgeot was buffed, which is nice, as the pidgey line was terribly overshadowed by any new birds

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:52:53 No.15617627 Report

Quoted By: >>15618630

>bug and ice
>needing buffs
Just cuz a type is not the best defensively does not mean it needs a buff.
Hell, ice is one of the best offensive typings.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 36615.jpg, 46KiB, 311x313

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:53:14 No.15617629 Report

Quoted By: >>15617641

>>15617601
>Ice no longer weak to ground

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:53:19 No.15617632 Report

Quoted By: >>15617666 >>15618960

Bug is good defensively and Ice is good offensively. Just not the other way around.

Bug:
-Make Ghost not resist bug
-Make Fire not resist Bug
-Make Fairy not reisst Bug

Ice:
-Make Ice reisst Water
-Make Ice reists Ground

Also bonus Grass:
-Make Flying not resist Grass
-Make Steel not resist Grass

I'd love this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:53:28 No.15617635 Report

Quoted By: >>15617641

>>15617601
Ice is weak to ground? Holy shit I didn't even know this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:54:03 No.15617641 Report

Quoted By: >>15617698

>>15617635
>>15617629
Fuck I was thinking Rock

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:54:12 No.15617642 Report

Quoted By: >>15618611

>>15617601
ice has never been weak to ground.

making bug resist psychic and dark isn't the worst idea. makes it solidly a defensive type with a good offensive movepool. not a bad niche.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:54:30 No.15617645 Report

Quoted By:

>ice resists fairy and water
>ice hits water neutrally
>bug hits ghost and fairy neutrally
and also
>steel resists ghost again, but not dark

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:54:36 No.15617646 Report

Quoted By: >>15618520 >>15621403

>Bonus: make an individual nerf for scizor because bug is getting buffed

Bullet Punch is now 70 BP

Cob 1977 0952 9548 (Grass: Tangela, Petilil, Quilladin)

Cob 1977 0952 9548 (Grass: Tangela, Petilil, Quilladin) Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:55:05 No.15617650 Report

Quoted By:

I think Ice should be SE on steel, because cold temperatures are bad for most metals, like tin for example. Bug could lose a weakness I guess?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:55:24 No.15617653 Report

Quoted By:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwmmM5RcR98

?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:56:38 No.15617666 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617632
It wouldn't be as bad if they made pokemon that worked within ices problems better.

Weavile is a good example as far as stats go but even then it's movepool is a bit lacking even getting icicle crash this gen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:57:33 No.15617673 Report

Quoted By: >>15617689 >>15617696 >>15617716

Ice should resist grass, ground, and maybe water.

I don't understand the water hate. It's an all around nice typing. To me, it's the perfectly balanced type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:58:57 No.15617689 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617673
Maybe it's because there so many pure water types?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 11:59:44 No.15617696 Report

Quoted By: >>15617719

>>15617673
>grass
>the type that is resisted by 7 types
>yes

>water
>the all around best type
>maybe

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:00:09 No.15617698 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617641

Rock does work a little better. It should hit Ice for neutral, at lest. A resist would be even better for Ice, as a whole, since Rock has some of the best coverage for a type that has no offensive immunity. It would make it slightly worse than Fire's coverage, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:00:17 No.15617703 Report

Quoted By: >>15617758

Ice should resist Grass, Ground, and Flying.
If it becomes SE against any more types it will become too strong.

Bug is fine where it is. The only issue with that typing are the stats, not the effectivenesses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:02:09 No.15617716 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617673
it's not a simply issue. rain was part of the problem. that's largely going to pass now.

the main problem is that water only has 2 weaknesses one of which is grass. grass is a weak offensive type and most water pokemon have access to ice moves and can easily counter grass. water also often couples perfectly with other types defensively. water is a great type to spam offensively. it hits everything for neautral except itself, grass, and dragon. ice covers both of those as already mentioned and dragons don't have any specific advantage over water pokemon. that leaves you with grass to prevent water from running amok and grass does a poor job of this because grass is fairly weak.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:02:27 No.15617719 Report

Quoted By: >>15617739 >>15617742

>>15617696
Ice naturally resists plant growth. Permafrost.

Ice naturally gives way to water.

It isn't about evening out numbers as it is having things make sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:04:11 No.15617739 Report

Quoted By: >>15617745 >>15617776 >>15617803 >>15617810 >>15618635

>>15617719
>It isn't about evening out numbers as it is having things make sense.
So why is Steel SE against fairy?
It doesn't make much sense, and even with the Steel nerfs it would have been good even if fairy didn't exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:04:27 No.15617742 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617719
>pokemon
>make sense

also balance>making sense

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:05:13 No.15617745 Report

Quoted By: >>15617753

>>15617739
Steel and Poison are seen as man-made things and Fairies are nature and shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:06:11 No.15617753 Report

Quoted By: >>15617820

>>15617745
Maybe with steel, but Poison is as natural as fire or water.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:06:27 No.15617758 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617703
bugs offense is pretty shitty though. Buffing stats isnt much of an option. Bugs can hardly take advantage of their stab as it is.

And why nerf flying on ice?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:06:42 No.15617762 Report

Quoted By: >>15617781 >>15617876

There are two problems with giving Bugs boost. Namely:

-Scizor
-Volcarona

Now I am a mono bug user, but I wouldn't want to see them booted to Ubers. For bug the problem isn't typing (though Sneaky Pebbles are sure bitch). It's the problem that there is crapton of bugs that don't live up to their potential. Why is there so little variety in Bugs? Where's a fully evolved Bug/Water? Decent Bug/Ground? Bulky Bug/Ghost? Hell, where is my quadruple weak to fire and rock Bug/Ice? Bergmite was the perfect opportunity!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:08:00 No.15617775 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617414
>Bug
>Resists Ground, and Fighting
>Needs a buff
urdoinitrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:08:06 No.15617776 Report

Quoted By: >>15617795

>>15617739
According to myth, cast iron hurts fae. Since there's no Cast Iron type, we have Steel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:08:25 No.15617781 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617762
I agree with this guy. Bugs need more versatility. Look at shit like Heliolisk. Fucker can learn SURF. How many Bugs can learn Surf? They all have a STAB and a boosting move and if they're lucky a STAB on their second type. That's about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:09:42 No.15617795 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617776
cold iron, not cast iron. there are some interpretations of cold iron as cast iron, but there are plenty others (like magically cold iron made from whatever)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:10:08 No.15617803 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617739
Because Cold Iron in mythology counters fairies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:10:31 No.15617810 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617739
>So why is Steel SE against fairy?
Because in mythology, fae are allergic to cold iron.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:11:22 No.15617820 Report

Quoted By: >>15617829 >>15617849 >>15618669 >>15618714

>>15617753
Yeah I dunno, I guess Poison = corruption and Fairy = cleansing?

Fuck it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:12:03 No.15617829 Report

Quoted By: >>15617849 >>15617853

>>15617820
Fairies are pure and innocent, poison represents corruption and defilement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:13:37 No.15617849 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617829
>>15617820

becausse Poison needed offensive boost, and Fairy (which is sure to be used) was the perfect target.

Also, fuck Steel (Klefki in particular)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:13:50 No.15617853 Report

Quoted By: >>15617884

>>15617829
That would be Dark, and it resists + is SE to it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:14:43 No.15617870 Report

Quoted By: >>15617905

>>15617414
Bugs need more resistances to be a better defensive type, or less things resisting them to be a better offensive type, it just needs something to offset rocks, which is why Bug/Steel is such a good combo.

Ice needs more resistances and less weaknesses. Giving ice an offensive buff does NOTHING for the type since almost every water type learns Ice beam.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:15:03 No.15617876 Report

Quoted By: >>15617957

>>15617762
but would making bug hit fairy and ghost neutrally really buff volcarona so much? and if you nerf bullet punch or something on scizor, it would be fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:15:43 No.15617884 Report

Quoted By: >>15617943

>>15617853
Dark is more about being an asshole.

And assholes always get tricked (and/or murdered horribly) by mythological fae.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:17:17 No.15617905 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617870
>bug neutral to rock
>ice neutral to fighting

And give me Bug/Ice sponge any day

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:19:55 No.15617943 Report

Quoted By: >>15617981

>>15617884
I don't think Dark really deserved a nerf.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:21:31 No.15617957 Report

Quoted By: >>15617990 >>15617992 >>15618002

>>15617876

Scizor is a bit of a delicate case. If you nerf the BP on U-Turn, he gets the Technician buff, you'd have to lower it so much that U-Turn isn't a good option on anyone. If you nerf the BP on all priority moves, you just end up making priority suck. Nerfing Bullet Punch alone seems silly as well. Best you can do is nerf Technician, but even then it hurts other Technician users more than it does him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:22:49 No.15617981 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617943
I don't really think so either, but that's not the point.

Pokémon has always had a rather weird relation between what makes sense and what's healthy for the metagame anyway. You get matchups that make sense logically but are crap in the metagame, and matchups that improve the metagame but don't really seem to be based on anything realistic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:23:39 No.15617990 Report

Quoted By: >>15618098

>>15617957
Might seem harsh but if you really need to nerf him alone, just nerf his stats. Or swap Technician for something else.

I agree that Bullet Punch should not be changed, neither does Technician.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:23:51 No.15617992 Report

Quoted By: >>15618098

>>15617957
Just remove Technician from Scizor?

Might be a bit harsh, but if it solves the problem...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:25:12 No.15618002 Report

Quoted By: >>15618098

>>15617957
>If you nerf the BP on all priority moves, you just end up making priority suck

Honestly, I'd be ok with it.

I feel priority is far better off as a gimmick than something that dominates part of the entire metagame the way it does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:32:08 No.15618098 Report

Quoted By: >>15618227

>>15617990

If you nerf his stats, you have to nerf Scyther too. Otherwise you have a pokemon that has worse stats when it evolves, and that makes absolutely no sense. What are you going to nerf anyways? Its only good stats are attack and defense.

>>15617992

The only problem is what to replace it with. Swarm and Light Metal are absolutely worthless. I guess some people would be fine with that, but even a gimmick ability would be better than no ability.

>>15618002

The only problem with that is Technician users still get some benefit out of it, so they may end up still using it while any other form of priority is shunned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:40:36 No.15618227 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618098
That's more or less what I mean by a gimmick.

It's reasonably useful under certain circumstances (if you have Technician, if it has a good secondary effect, etc), but it's not something that's pretty much ubiquitous in the metagame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:42:14 No.15618255 Report

Quoted By: >>15618460

In order to make scizor worse without changing other things, you have to do 1 of two things:

-Remove technician for something like Iron Fist
-Change scizor to a typing other than Bug/Steel

Scizor's whole thing is that he's got an amazing typing and ability able to use its stats and movepool EXTREMELY efficiently.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO jbcvzDQPCSuvw3.jpg, 21KiB, 300x251

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:42:23 No.15618260 Report

Quoted By: >>15618484 >>15618563

Here, I'll fix the whole game:

Ice:
>Resists Water
>Get its on equivalent to Swift Swim / Sand Rush / Chlorophyll
>Defense of all Ice types increases by 50% in Hail

Bug:
>Super effective against Fairy
>Neutral to Fighting
>More useful Bugs instead of early route shit

Grass:
>Immune to Water

Poison:
>Super effective against Water
>Toxic is now exclusive to Poison types

Face it, all these would bring a lot more balance. Bug type was already the second most ineffective type in the whole game, there was absolutely no need to nerf it. Water still remains as one of the best all around attacking types with hardly any downsides so Grass being immune to it would only be good. Even with that immunity, Water is still really good thanks to their access to Ice Beam so they should be nerfed a bit more by giving them a weakness to Poison which, although it hits Fairy type super effectively, isn't still as useful as an attacking type as it should be. Poison types would skyrocket in usefulness with exclusive Toxic and SE STAB against Water, which is just what they need. Grass has too many weaknesses so an immunity would compensate that at least a bit. Ice type obviously needs a buff, no explanation needed there.

>Fucking Game Freak will never do this because they're dumb as a bag of hammers

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:56:56 No.15618460 Report

Quoted By: >>15618468 >>15618535 >>15618578

>>15618255
why not just slightly increase the base power of bullet punch?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:57:59 No.15618468 Report

Quoted By: >>15618501

>>15618460
Because in order to ensure technician doesn't activate on scizor, you have to make the base power of the attack 65 scizor's technician bonus makes Bullet punch have a BP of 60

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Junichi_Masuda.png, 243KiB, 269x395

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:59:05 No.15618484 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618260
Leave my type waifu alone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 12:59:58 No.15618501 Report

Quoted By: >>15618563

>>15618468
oh, my bad.
i thought it was higher.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:01:01 No.15618520 Report

Quoted By: >>15619020

>>15617646
>Priority
>70 BP

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:01:20 No.15618535 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618460

That would be a buff. Technician boosts any moves with less than 60 BP. It brings Bullet Punch to 60 BP without STAB. For Technician not to work, you have to increase the BP to 61, which just means it's pretty much same as before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:02:43 No.15618563 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618260
They don't need toxic restricted to poison. They just need to be better offensively with their stab, and maybe a touch more defensive power.

Their biggest issues is that ground weakness. outside of that it's a pretty good defensive type, as it resists both fighting and fairy; as well as being immune to poison, so it can't be toxi-stalled.

>>15618501
Nope, no moveset scizor uses currently would be affected by boosting one of it's moves BP out of technician range.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:02:45 No.15618564 Report

Quoted By: >>15618640

Make Ice resistant to a bunch of types and remove one or two of it's weaknesses.

Do something good with the Hail weather.

Make some Ice moves that are really good but with very limited distribution and basically exclusive to ice types. Like, a defensive Ice-type attack like Scald that paralyzes, or Stealth Ice, or something.

Maybe nerf offense some to compensate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:04:11 No.15618578 Report

Quoted By: >>15618607

>>15618460
Because it's more powerful once it exceeds the Technician boosting BP than it was before it. Scizor is not OP at all, anyone who has played competitively knows he has been an absolutely fantastic OU pokemon ever since he got Bullet Punch, but has never been in any way broken. He's already been nerfed by losing his ability to check Gengar (and his new –much more broken than Scizor has ever been– Mega).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:06:47 No.15618607 Report

Quoted By: >>15618740

>>15618578

That reminds me, how was Scizor in gen 4 pre-Platinum? I remember it actually managed to make it into OU since it finally had better STAB than Steel Wing, but I don't remember it being too common.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:07:01 No.15618611 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617642
>giving dark another type that resists it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:08:48 No.15618629 Report

Quoted By:

Niggas just need to stop making slow, defensive Ice types. Make more stuf like an Ice-type Blaziken or Scizor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:08:53 No.15618630 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617627
The problem with Ice is that tons of non-ice Pokemon learn Ice Beam, and Ice types themselves are all built defensively for some reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:09:00 No.15618635 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617739
fairies are weak to cold steel yo

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:09:10 No.15618640 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618564
i agree with the movepool. this is what they will most likely do. Ice types need a wider range of technical moves and they need to be ice type exclusive

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:09:48 No.15618643 Report

Quoted By: >>15618742

If you wanted to buff his type while nerfing Scizor himself, all you'd need to do is nerf technician.

Of course, that hurts breloom too, but.. it's probably the cleanest way to buff the bug type while not making scizor even more OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:10:17 No.15618652 Report

Quoted By: >>15618687

Believe it or not, the problem isn't so much the type as it is the fact that GameFreak keeps making shitty Pokemon of the types.

Give both of them creative dual type Pokemon, preferably with interesting abilities, and decent stats (this being key here) and we're fine.

If we have to have a starter Bug/Flying, give a good Bug/Water to compensate. If we have to get a typical defensive Ice type, give a fast offensive one to match,

The types are not the problem. The Pokemon are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:11:34 No.15618669 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617820
Because fae are frail, and therefore more susceptible to poisons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:13:08 No.15618687 Report

Quoted By: >>15618718

>>15618652
the types are a touch of a problem as well.

Ice type is not a type you want to have, because the stab isn't worth the baggage. It's similar with other types as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:15:07 No.15618714 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617820
Fairies are in tune with nature, and poison and pollution hurts nature, supposedly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:15:20 No.15618718 Report

Quoted By: >>15618736

>>15618687
Maybe - I was admittedly speaking more about Bug, as I'm a massive Bugfag and I'm sick of seeing Bug/Flying or pure Bug.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:16:56 No.15618736 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618718
yeh, bug has the thing where it's a great typing to have defensively, but a shit stab.

You only need to tack on a typing to remove 2 of bug's weaknesses (rock/fire/flying; mostly the rock), and it's ready to fire out the gates as a pokemon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:17:21 No.15618740 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618607
Scizor was still an OU pokemon. It had some good tools. It either set itself up with Swords Dance + Roost w/ Bug Bite/Iron Head and Brick Break (lel) or Baton Passed SD or Agility Boosts. It was serviceable but not fantastic. And Heatran was the #1 used pokemon in OU, so it was difficult to justify using it until it got Bullet Punch and Superpower. Then it became, along with Heatran, the best pokemon in OU post-Garchomp

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:17:26 No.15618742 Report

Quoted By: >>15618772

>>15618643
Nerfing Technician would hurt Pokémon besides Scizor, which really don't need the nerf.

Just give Scizor Iron Fist instead of Technician. Problem solved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:19:42 No.15618772 Report

Quoted By: >>15618778 >>15618964

>>15618742
Has any pokemon ever recieved an ability and then had it taken away by GameFreak?

It would work better, but I think that it's far, FAR less likely to happen than simply nerfing the ability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:20:06 No.15618778 Report

Quoted By: >>15618790 >>15618794 >>15618850

>>15618772
Yes. Chandelure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:20:55 No.15618790 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618778
Fair enough, thanks for telling me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:21:11 No.15618794 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618778
Muh Shadow Tag.

;_;

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:24:30 No.15618849 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617498
>making grass even worse

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:24:30 No.15618850 Report

Quoted By: >>15618859

>>15618778
Except didn't we never actually have shadow tag? It was a dream world thing that never got released right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:25:42 No.15618859 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618850
correct. but it was known (it was in the code), and several other things got retconned typingwise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:25:55 No.15618862 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617414
Sneaky pebbles only do double damage to flying types and levitators now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:30:20 No.15618912 Report

Quoted By:

Ice is already greatly offensive why buff it anymore? Maybe more defensive.. and why remove yet another resist ance to steel? Its not even defencive at this point. What am I supoised to switch a dragon into? Do I need to have a bulky fire type?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:33:52 No.15618960 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617632
> making steel l, the defencive type, be even less defencive yet again.
Is dark ghost and psychic not enough

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:34:02 No.15618964 Report

Quoted By:

>>15618772
Scoliosis had Quick Feet replaced with Speed Boost.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:37:33 No.15619020 Report

Quoted By: >>15619127 >>15628704

>>15618520
weaker than extreme speed, galewing brave bird, arcobat, Aerilate/Refrigerate/Pixilate quick attack

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1383424216075.jpg, 1MiB, 2400x2400

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:42:34 No.15619107 Report

Quoted By:

Bug is innefective against 7 fucking types. At least make them neutral to Ghost

Make them just weak to Fire and Flying.

Ice mons just need to be faster.

Pic unrelated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:43:56 No.15619127 Report

Quoted By: >>15619323

>>15619020
But still stronger than what it actually has right now.

A 70BP Bullet Punch would be a buff to Scizor, not a nerf.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 13:55:22 No.15619323 Report

Quoted By:

>>15619127
I still can't see why people is so obsessed with the bullet punch scizor. Is not as if steel was SE against much types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 14:08:42 No.15619505 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617622
Didn't know this, just caught a shiny one too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 15:18:42 No.15620559 Report

Quoted By:

Doesn't hail triple critical hit ratio for ice moves/types now? I kinda liked that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 15:24:11 No.15620660 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617414
How to nerf Scizor

introduce a fire-type bullet punch that deals special damage

and make it available for every pokemon

there you go

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 15:31:06 No.15620808 Report

Quoted By: >>15620836

Just make a damn Ice/Steel type.
Ice really should resist water, I feel.

Bug should be SE against fairy and resist it. It seems like a much better, more natural foil for a fairy than steel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 15:32:18 No.15620836 Report

Quoted By: >>15621040

>>15620808
>ice/steel
>it's slow as fuck and is supposed to be a special wall

th-thanks, gamefreak

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 15:40:07 No.15621040 Report

Quoted By: >>15621395

>>15620836
>based on frozen pipes
>starts with godly physical defence
>weak armour is ability
>high special attack

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 15:48:23 No.15621209 Report

Quoted By: >>15621736

My proposed rebalance:

Bug resists Fairy
Bug is neutral against Fairy
Bug is neutral against Ghost

Grass resists Fairy
Grass is neutral against Dragon

Dark is neutral against Fairy

Ice resists Rock

Rock takes neutral damage from Water

Psychic is not very effective against Fairy
Psychic is super effective against Steel

Fairy is regularly effective against Fire

How is this, /vp/? I think grass and ice are still a bit crap, but not as bad as before by any means.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 15:56:54 No.15621395 Report

Quoted By: >>15621526

>>15621040
I think a crygonal evo might be a good ice/steel. It already had that sort of "mirror" design going for it, why not play it up and have like an Ice/Steel magic mirror? It could have very high SpDef and SpAtk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 15:57:13 No.15621403 Report

Quoted By: >>15622756

>>15617646
>70 BP
>Would now do even more than before with STAB alone

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 16:02:06 No.15621526 Report

Quoted By:

>>15621395
That would actually be pretty awesome and would make me want to use a pokemon I have no interest in otherwise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 16:04:38 No.15621589 Report

Quoted By:

I really wanted gf to shake things up with fairy type, but they left key types still left behind (ice, bug and grass)

grass resists fairy, fire loses resist
ice resists normal and poison
water gains weakness to poison
rock loses weakness to steel
steel gains resistance to electric
steel loses resistances to grass and psychic
bug gains resists to psychic
bugs hit ghosts and fighting neutrally
dark loses immunity to psychic, downgraded to nve
ground loses resist against poison

There is probably more but i don't have time to post all the stuff

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 16:10:37 No.15621736 Report

Quoted By: >>15622683

>>15621209
I'd add to that to make Flying neutral against Grass, which I think makes Grass decent all around now.

Ice still blows, even resisting rock. Make ice resist Bug.

Now Bug kind of sucks again, so have it be neutral to poison and resist poison.

Now make Poison strong against Water. I think Water is still balanced, even with an added weakness to poison and no longer being super effective against Rock.

Boom. Balanced forever.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO balance.png, 49KiB, 729x819

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 16:50:16 No.15622683 Report

Quoted By: >>15622989

>>15621736

>Now Bug kind of sucks again, so have it be neutral to poison and resist poison.

You've just gone back to square one and made Bug still resisted by over seven types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 16:51:53 No.15622716 Report

Quoted By:

Frost Bite ability
>hail doubles chances of the opponent being frozen by ice attacks

Fund it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 16:53:27 No.15622756 Report

Quoted By: >>15622821

>>15621403

>135BP -> 105BP
>Buff

Dumbass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 16:55:01 No.15622791 Report

Quoted By:

>>15617414
Ice:
>resists water
>resists ground
>hail cuts speed of non-ice types

Please make this happen I beg you GameFreak

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 16:56:05 No.15622821 Report

Quoted By:

>>15622756

Bullet Punch has a BP of 40. With Technician and STAB, it goes up to 90 BP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 17:03:32 No.15622989 Report

Quoted By: >>15623075

>>15622683
No no:

Bug
Offensively:
2x against Dark, Grass, Psychic
1/2x against Fight, Fire, Flying, Steel, Ice

Defensively:
1/2x from: Fairy, Poison, Fighting, Grass, Ground
2x from: Fire, Flying, Rock

Its only resisted by 5 types now, and now resists 5 types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 17:04:33 No.15623009 Report

Quoted By:

Bug:
>neutral damage to Fighting
>neutral damage to Fairy
>neutral damage to Ghost
>weak to Poison again

Ice:
>neutral damage from Rock
>resists Dragon
>resists Flying

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 17:07:57 No.15623075 Report

Quoted By:

>>15622989
>citizen kane applause.jpg

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 18:22:26 No.15625149 Report

Quoted By: >>15626923

After Kyurem's whole "absence of/neutralises energy" theme, I can't help but feel Ice should be SE against and resist Electric.
Not only makes sense, its adds something to Ice (its in dire need of more resistances) and gives Elec another weakness so Ground moves won't be as needed.

It should also resist Water. Which should be weak to Poison, yeah.
Fight should be weak to Poison, too.

Oh jesus GF, get it together.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 19:26:19 No.15626923 Report

Quoted By:

>>15625149
but at cold temperatures electrons just flow more freely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 19:28:53 No.15627009 Report

Quoted By:

Ice
>Resists water/dragon
>neutral to rock/steel

>SE to water
>Neutral damage to steel

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 19:30:28 No.15627063 Report

Quoted By: >>15627271

>Bug
Offensively:
2X Dragon (because Dragons are fictional creatures and you can make up any rules you want for them), 1X Fairy (because why the fuck did they do that?)

Defensively:
1/2X Fairy

>Ice
Offensively:
1/2X Fighting (martial artists train in harsh environments)

Defensively:
1/2X Dragon, 1X Rock, 1X Fighting

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 19:35:06 No.15627219 Report

Quoted By:

All ice needs is to be resistant to ground.

The other two worst defensive types, grass and bug both resist ground, add in ice to that group add having an ice secondary type is no longer a liability, but a benefit in many cases seeing as everyone has EQ

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 19:36:28 No.15627271 Report

Quoted By:

>>15627063
>nerfing ice further

what the fuck is wrong with you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 19:37:03 No.15627293 Report

Quoted By: >>15628679 >>15628918

Stealth rocks is hurting the typings too hard. It makes it so only the bulky or the fragile glass cannons are usable.
What if instead of only rapid spin dealing with stealth rocks, they made it so a rock type switching into stealth rocks and attach them to themselves and receive a +1 attack boost.
>but then rocks are overpowered
Rock is weak to fighting, ground, water and grass, very common attacking types
Stealth rocks become less common, bugs and ice have more survivability and easier time switching in and out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 19:38:34 No.15627351 Report

Quoted By:

Echo type

Bug imune to it
Ice weak to it

+ Ice no longer weak to Rock
+ Rock no longer weak to Water

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 19:51:38 No.15627756 Report

Quoted By:

The problem with Ice also comes from the move distribution. There's no point carrying an Ice type, because there's a metric shitton of Pokemon that can learn Ice Beam for coverage. Having an Ice type just for that would add too many weaknesses to a team. In order to make ice types more viable, many non-ice pokemon would have to lose their ability to use strong Ice-type attacks.
Also:
>making slow and defensive Pokemon of a type that has shit defensive and good offensive capabilities

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 20:18:12 No.15628679 Report

Quoted By: >>15628918

>>15627293
Thats fucking brilliant.

But that might just make stealth rock useless. Everyone will just switch out their rocks. TTar becomes even better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 20:18:51 No.15628704 Report

Quoted By:

>>15619020
Quick attack Aeril/refriger/pixil only has a base power of 52.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 20:26:23 No.15628918 Report

Quoted By:

>>15628679
>>15627293
Rock/Steel/Ground can absorb it, but gain some HP rather than an attack boost.

Heavily discourages use of rocks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 20:42:15 No.15629389 Report

Quoted By: >>15631624

Ability: meltdown: the Pokemon's ice melts when sunny day is used, changing ice to water type. Also, when hit by a fire type move, it melts (type change only after damage calculation)

Ability: chill down: water moves heal

Frozen charge: ice type gigs impact

Ice room: covers the floor with ice, increasing ice type speed for 5 turns (maybe also cuts enemy accuracy as they'd be slipping around on the floor?)

Permafrost: Freezes target, no damage

Snow Swap: ice type u-turn

Probably shitty, but just off the top of my head

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 05 Nov 2013 21:58:06 No.15631624 Report

Quoted By:

>>15629389
Ability: meltdown: the Pokemon's ice melts when sunny day is used, changing ice to water type. Also, when hit by a fire type move, it melts (type change only after damage calculation)

please make this articuno's other ability

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