Is Malamar viable? I really like its design and contrary ability with superpower, but I don't know what other moves I should carry with, what nature, or EV spread. Right now, I've got an adamant one with Hypnosis, Night Slash, Psycho cut, and Superpower, with an EV spread of 106HP, 100Atk, 52SpDef, and 252Spd. Should I be running something else for better efficiency?
Anonymous
Anonymous
Hell yeah he is viable.
Anonymous
>>15692934 >Topsy-Turvy why tops turkey?
Anonymous
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>>15692969 Undo all the setting up they've done
Anonymous
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>>15692025 I run Superpower / Topsy / Payback / x. I keep switching x out. Why payback? Well after 1 or more Supers, he's got the bulk to take a hit, plus he is slower than most counters. Things not weak to fighting are usually neutral to dark type, also.
Anonymous
Malamar is great. Awesome typing, even though bugs have made a resurgence. Contrary is really interesting and messes w/sticky web and whatnot. Superpower +STAB Psycho cut if you can live that long is tight, not to mention a topsy-turvy lucky steal.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 18:51:19 No. 15695169 Report >>15692934 Errr, maybe viable in UU, but malamar doesn't have the stats (particularly speed) to rank with other pokemon in OU. Sure, he has a niche, but that won't help him against most of the powerhouses in the metagame. For example, his speed is boosted by contrary after your team has been sticky webbed, but aren't you better off just carrying a defogger/spinner? Topsy turvy is really only effective against sigilyph or other defensive boosting mons because you can't pull it off in front of something that will ohko you. And even against slower pokemon that offensively boost, chances are they carry priority moves that would still ohko malamar.
Anonymous
>>15695169 Any pokemon that is viable in UU is viable in OU. You could make the argument that this isn't the case with NU, but with the right support, a UU pokemon will have next to no problems on an OU team.
Most of the OU Pokemon are just OU because they're easier to use, they aren't always better.
Malamar is also one of those Pokemon that has a decent enough toolset that I think people are going to start to find really interesting things with him.
I say keep an eye on what people are doing with Malamar, you might end up being surprised.
Anonymous
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I wont breed one. We dont know yet if it get sucker punch and it would be awesome if it gets it.
Anonymous
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The best part about Malamar is that Goodra and Sticky Web, which I am sure will become very commonplace in OU, boost his speed.
Anonymous
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>>15694702 >topsy-turvy lucky steal. >steal What.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 19:19:01 No. 15695999 Report >>15695326 They are in OU because you don't need to have a whole team set around one particular pokemon to make it viable. Sure, you can run an eeveelution in OU despite a lot of them being less than OU. Can you win with such a team? Absolutely. Will you win often? Certainly not.
What's worse is that you suggest team support for a pokemon whose nich is utility. This should never be the case. A utility niche should be supporting a sweeper.
That being said, malamar is not horrible, and if I came across suggesting that, I apologize. It's just average. Painfully average.
Anonymous
>>15695999 For one thing, Malar's niche is not even close to being support, but aside from that:
The idea is not to make a team that supports one Pokemon, the idea is to make a team with synergy.
With Synergy, it's not that hard to make a UU or even RU Pokemon work in OU. If you know what you're doing, it's not a "lucky win" situation. It's all about team building. Not to mention the fact that if you use unusual builds or pokes, you catch people off guard, which makes a huge difference.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 20:09:08 No. 15697286 Report >>15696424 Topsy Turvy is not an offensive move. And that's it's niche. Contrary abuse is a niche too, but other contrary users are better. I agree with your point on synergy, but also meh. If someone brought out a malamar on the team I'm presently breeding, I would have multiple ways of dealing with it. It's just not immediately threatening at all. And if you are building a competitive team that can't deal with it's lackluster stats, you are doing something wrong.
Anonymous
>>15697286 Topsy turvy is most definitely not it's niche. Its one move that can be helpful sometimes, but I guarantee many sets won't even run it, in favor of 4 attacks and an assault vest.
And no, other contrary users are not better. Spinda is a worse version of Malamar, Shuckle uses it in a totally different way, and even then there are better options for shuckle, and Serperior isn't even out yet.
To your last point, stats are not everything by a long shot. Malamar is most definitely not a sweeper, or even a tank. What Malamar is is a Pokemon that slowly builds momentum and can end up being a huge threat.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 20:32:49 No. 15697913 Report >>15697528 What exactly then, is it's niche?
I do apologize on not realizing serperior was unreleased. Topsy Turvy does in fact suck, so I guess we can agree on that. Even with the +1 speed it gets from contrary sticky web, that only brings its speed up from dismal to acceptable. And acceptable doesn't cut it in OU unless you have some form of defenses. It has a cool typing, I'll give it that. But any moderately powerful neutral stab easily disposes of it. I'm sorry. I guess I just don't see any uses for it. It has no trapping power, so if you sit there and allow it to superpower buff on you, that is your dumb fault for not busting out a ghost pokemon and WoWing it. Please enlighten me as to how this thing could be threatening.
Anonymous
>>15697913 >What Malamar is is a Pokemon that slowly builds momentum and can end up being a huge threat. That.
>Even with the +1 speed it gets from contrary sticky web, that only brings its speed up from dismal to acceptable +1 speed is the equivalent of a choice scarf. Coming off of a base 73 speed stat, that outpaces a lot.
You should really try to use pokemon that aren't OU some time, you will learn a lot more about how to play the game.
Cobra: 0275-8326-2440
i run a scarf set with Night Slash, Psycho cut, and Superpower and switcheroo. Adamant or jolly nature (cant remember which one) and max atk and speed evs.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 21:00:43 No. 15698734 Report >>15698046 Lol, +50% speed on a base 73 is, like I said, acceptable. Don't tell me how to play the game. It's not OU for a reason. Here's why:
> Not every team runs sticky web. Carrying one pokemon to counter that specific move is laughable, and it gets shown up HARD by pokemon that counter sticky web better. > Even if your opponent runs sticky web, you're opponent more than likely carries a scarf pokemon that can ohko it. > Slowly building up momentum? Can't do that when you're 1-2Hko'd. >admittedly, malamar has enough bulk to take most priority moves, but is easily 2hko'd by most of them. Malamar most of the time can't ohko any of these same pokemon, and thus is countered by them. Tell me, pray, what is malamar a hard counter to? What can he switch into and instantly kill. Now think about all the pokemon that can switch into him and OHKO him. One of these numbers outnumbers the other. Vastly. Stop being butt hurt your favorite pokemon is not so great. My favorite pokemon is UU, I accept it, whatevs.
Anonymous
>>15698734 As someone who used a choice scarf banette in gen V, you have no idea how much of a difference +1 makes.
>Not every team runs sticky web. Carrying one pokemon to counter that specific move is laughable, and it gets shown up HARD by pokemon that counter sticky web better. Malamar isn't just for sticky web.
> Even if your opponent runs sticky web, you're opponent more than likely carries a scarf pokemon that can ohko it. Anyone running sticky web does so because they bulky, slow attackers, so no.
>Slowly building up momentum? Can't do that when you're 1-2Hko'd. Then don't let that happen, genius.
>Tell me, pray, what is malamar a hard counter to? What can he switch into and instantly kill This manner of thinking is why no amount of explaining this shit to you will matter.
You play like a kid and you're acting like a faggot.
I don't even use Malamar, I just know that the mindset that only OU pokemon are viable is bullshit.
Just try using lower tier Pokemon sometime, Pokemon isn't just hyper offense and hazards.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 21:29:29 No. 15699726 Report >>15698923 Lulz, you keep saying I am too OU-minded, acting like a little kid, and a faggot. The truth is, you've never stated how malamar could be useful. And haven't responded to my own counter arguments with a suitable rebuttal. Don't compare him to banette. That's different in so many ways. Hyper offensive is OU for so many reasons. You were saying how "herp derp, don't let that situation happen to malamar". Well, the same could be said vice versa. Except there are pokemon that can trap malamar and dispose of it. Stop denying the obvious. Hyper offense is praised for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I love using unique strategies. Last gen, I loved my rain team. Croagunk in particular. He was OU for a very unique set of reasons. Not hyper offensive, but had much staying power despite this. Malamar cannot say the same. Malamar IS unique in several ways, but they don't culminate together to bring him above UU. That's all. You can use him on an OU if you wish. Just know that he is very much outclassed by other pokemon in most ways other than his own very, VERY narrow niche.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>15699726 >luz >namefagging outside of safari threads >doesn't undertand how smogon tiers work >only uses OU pokemon >doesn't even read the posts he responds to Leave and don't come back.
Anonymous
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I carry one at all times just to fuck with Aegislash and Baton Pass teams.
Anonymous
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>>15692969 Topsy Turvy reverses stat changes to the target.
So let's say Xerneas just used Geomancy, and gets +2 Sp Attack, Sp Def and Speed.
Topsy Turvy now makes that -2 Sp Attack, Sp Def and Speed.
Malamar can safely attack Aegislash in all situations, it either hurts it pretty badly with a dark move like Foul Play or Night Slash, or gets a +2 boost in Attack if they're dumb enough to use King's Shield.
Also Gooey Goomy can do nothing to stop it and it can safely switch in on Sticky Web
Anonymous
>>15700143 And besides all of this shit, XY hasn't even been out for a month yet and this faggot thinks tiers are already set in stone.
Ubers haven't even been rebanned yet, holy shit.
Anonymous
Anonymous
rick sounds like he doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 21:46:20 No. 15700339 Report >>15700143 Still no argument. Resorting to ad hominem. Still lulzing over here. Nice try m8, plz try again.
Anonymous
>>15700329 Topsy turvy definitely has some cool application, particularly after a few superpowers, but I predict most malamars will run assault vest instead.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>15700339 I'm not going to argue with you. You don't know shit about pokemon and you type like a redditor.
Anonymous
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Topsy-Turvy is good in theory, but it feels very finnicky to use. You have to have godly prediction skills. I feel like it would be much better if Malamar were a lot faster, but sadly, it's not.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 22:01:43 No. 15700877 Report >>15700407 You haven't given me a good argument the whole time, so meh. Notbothered.jpg
Go back in the corner and keep worshipping your pleb pokemon.
Anonymous
>>15700339 you don't know shit about anything. I happen to run a malamar and he wrecks shit. he usually is a huge help when it comes to winning my online matches. I happen to run a trick room malamar and most of the time when he's hit by an attack it doesnt even do more then 25% he will most likely end up in uu yes but the fact that you're saying he's not viable at all is laughable and obviously you don't understand this game at all. I've won the majority of my matches using malamar on my team. I seriously hope your posts have been b8 because you sound retarded. I bet you're one of those faggots who uses a team consisting of ttar excadrill blazekin and all you're other stabled on bullshit mons that usually fucking get shit on by my team because all you do is run stapled fucking smogon movesets
Anonymous
So anyone have any Triples strategies with Malamar?
Anonymous
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>>15700877 >keep worshiping your pleb pokemon >talks about how he uses strictly pokemon in the OU tier >namefag outside of safari thread holy fuck this has to be b8
Anonymous
>>15700373 If you Assault Vest you can't Trick Room, and Trick Room is much better than Topsy.
Assault Vest Malamar isn't a bad idea, but as far as his 4th move is concerned you're down to Pluck or Rock Slide.
Anonymous
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I run Superpower/Night Slash/Psycho Cut/Substitute, with 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe.
Anonymous
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>>15700877 I already said I don't even use Malamar you fucking moron.
Anonymous
>>15692025 What happens when you Topsy-Turvy a Contrary?
>Malamar is at +2 >Opposing Malamar Topsy-Turvy's it >it gets -4, which is +4, so it's at a total of +6? Anonymous
>>15697913 >Ghost Pokemon Night Slash
>WoW Substitute
Anonymous
>>15701075 Not really slow enough for trick room.
Rock's slide is generally the idea, but pluck for bellyjet Azumarill might be cool, though it is more situational.
Anonymous
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>>15701207 I assume Topsy Turvy works as normal
Anonymous
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>>15701207 where the fuck did you learn to math?
Anonymous
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>>15701207 Topsy turvy doesn't give you stat boosts, it inverts the ones you have already.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 22:16:28 No. 15701301 Report >>15700971 > says he's not going to argue anymore > keeps arguing God, you're samefagging is so painfully obvious. I already said he was viable in UU. I even said you CAN use him in OU, just with limited success. I don't know what else you want me to say. I'm not gonna give him credit where it's not due. "M-muh uu tier pokemon isn't SO bad!" Ok denialfag, keep those delicious tier tears coming.
Anonymous
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>>15700973 >Victini used V-Create and probably killed something >Malimar used Topsy Turvy! Victini is now at +1 Def, SDef and Speed >Your third Pokemon used Bulldoze! Malimar's speed was boosted! Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>15701213 Yeah, Malamar's speed is in that weird range of "Not fast enough to justify putting EVs in it and not slow enough to make Trickroom standard"
though it doesn't have many options aside from a Dark move + Psycho Cut and Superpower.
Anonymous
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>>15701207 topsy-turvy only reverses the + and -
a +2 malamar would become a -2 malamar
it's that simple
Anonymous
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>>15701213 I used to run Rock Slide; I never used it once.
I say to go with Substitute. A Toxic or burn can ruin it, so it becomes necessary.
Anonymous
>>15701301 actually no, he's not samefagging fucktard. i was reading all of your posts and you sounded so ignorant and retarded that it hurt. I fucking despise people like you "waaaahh i think im know what im talking about everything i say about the subject is right" well no actually you're a fucking nobody and will always be a fucking nobody. You don't know shit so stop acting like you do kid.
Anonymous
>>15701301 >Implying UU exists yet Stop talking like you know for sure what tier it's gonna be. It could be UU. It could be OU. It could be RU. It could even be NU. We don't fucking know, stop acting as if you do.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 22:20:12 No. 15701424 Report >>15701211 Ghost pokemon carry WoW. Outspeed malamar. Have a nice day!
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 22:21:32 No. 15701462 Report >>15701379 Oh god. My feelings are so hurt. Halp guize!
Anonymous
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>>15695326 I completely agree
Anonymous
>>15701424 >Get Malamar in on something it beats >Force a switch >Use sub on the switch Christ, do you even think about what you're saying before saying it?
Also:
>Have a nice day! Stop acting so immature. You're not better than anyone else here, and baiting us into insulting you doesn't help your argument.
Anonymous
Anonymous
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>>15698050 Might try that some time.
Anonymous
>>15701424 What ghost Pokemon is even going to feel safe switching into a Dark type Malimar
I'm pretty sure even like, Dusknoir is scared of taking a STAB SE night slash off a non-boosted Malimar if you mispredict because you looked at team view for 2 seconds and realized your opponent will probably try using that ghost thing against that one move ghosts are immune to.
And then it still has to switch in before it uses a move, unless you have like, flame body Chandelure. Nothing's stopping Malimar from just swapping out once you suspect your opponent is bringing out a ghost type to will o wisp you.
Anonymous
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>>15701462 >halp guize please oh please just go back to leddit and stop embarassing yourself
p.s. dont lie youre fucking sitting behind your computer rn crying about how some girl from your middle school class will never like you and how to you play pokemon to distract you from the fact that your mom gets plowed out by your gym teacher
Anonymous
So what should its nature/investments be? It seems to still be up in the air at the moment.
Anonymous
>>15701628 Adamant with 252 Atk. Always.
Anonymous
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>>15701567 It's not like Malamar doesn't have the attack to back itself up normally too.
It has 92 base attack which is respectable on its own and scary after using superpower.
It can oddly take hits rather well too.
I came to the odd realization that its typing doesn't really offer any 1/2 damage resistances.
Anonymous
>>15701642 And... what else?
Anonymous
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>>15701695 The rest is up to you. Some run 252 speed. Some run 252 HP. Some run weird sets with other EVs.
Anonymous
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>>15701695 HP.
It doesn't have quite the speed to outrun anything that relies on the stat so its best just moving second and having a bit of bulk.
Anonymous
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>>15701628 I'm running Careful 252 HP/SDef
I mean you're gonna be running superpower no matter what, your physical defense is going to be fine, your physical attack is going to be high no matter what it was at base. Toss it a leftovers and you can say goodbye to those breaks on the rape train once it's set up a bit.
It's mostly maximizing on the Defense boosts though, which people seem to ignore in favor of acting like it only gets offensive boosts using superpower, but both ways have their use.
SilverFayte
Quoted By:
>>15701695 Not him, but I'd say 252 in speed to take better advantage of Sticky Web boosts, and the last four in... dunno. Not sure if they matter much.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 22:33:22 No. 15701789 Report >>15701509 > get malamar on something it beats I lol'd
Possible, maybe. If you're choiced into something it resists. Elsewise switch into an infiltrator/water shuriken/any multi hit move. Lulz ensue.
Even if malamar did pull it off, he's ANYTHING but unstoppable. If people can bring dragonite-multiscale (roost, substitue) to a halt, don't pretend like malamar is special.
Anonymous
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>>15701789 >If you're choiced into something it resists. The only thing Psychic/Dark resists is Psychic (immunity)
SilverFayte
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>>15701789 You're acting like Malamar is the only thing on a team. If Malamar's forcing a switch, you can take advantage of that and predict that switch.
By saying "You can switch to defeat him" you've proven that Malamar has value as an offensive Pivot, if nothing else.
Anonymous
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>>15701789 > Even if malamar did pull it off, he's ANYTHING but unstoppable. If people can bring dragonite-multiscale (roost, substitue) to a halt, don't pretend like malamar is special. >Comparing Malamar to Dragonite So, what you're saying is, OU confirmed.
Quoted By:
I tried using trick room for some surprises switching with other slower hard hitters in my team
Anonymous
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>>15697913 Serp is released btw don't listen to that fage
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 22:47:17 No. 15702241 Report K guys, I'm out. Done arguing about this pokemon. Final opinions:> cool design > cool typing > cool ability > mediocre stats > mediocre movepool > solid UU
Anonymous
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>>15702241 And you're a faggot
Anonymous
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>>15702241 What can switch in on a +1 or even +2 Malimar, take a hit, take another hit, and OHKO/2KO/at least scare it off in return?
Anonymous
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>>15702241 >I fucked myself over with my own argument shit gotta damage control, better go Anon so I can continue this argument without hurting my rep O'Malley 0232-8330-5220
>>15692025 It hard counters most Aegislash.
Anonymous
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>>15702317 Not quite, but it is a big fucking headache for aegislash.
Anonymous
I know it's annoying as fucking shit online.
Anonymous
>>15702445 It takes Quad from Bugs, Double from Fairies, and its SDef isn't stellar, Volcorona's Bug Buzz or most Fairy types will take it out right quick.
Anonymous
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>>15702445 It's scared shitless of any bug/flying type
That should really say something to you.
Legitimately Butterfree stands as a straight up counter to it.
Just play smart with your team, nip it before it can start boosting and you won't have to worry. Grab a ghost type or something like how everyone has Aegislash. It can even sacred sword past Malimar's defense boosts if you accidentally let it set up.
Anonymous
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>>15702541 I suppose it's my fault that my only Bug attacks are physical and I don't have any fairies then. That typing is weird.
Thanks anon, gonna make sure to pack a Malamar counter from now on.
derp lol 5412-9949-9660
>>15692969 are u new to the gen well imagine your battling some one who likes to raise his stats if you were to use this move it would flip his stats upsidedown rather than having+6 boost in attack he would have a -6 boost.the only problem is if any one see you switch to malmar i would assume they you attack you one site to stop you from using this move on them.unless they are new and would learn this the hard way.imagine you fight a pokemon with speed boost you would cripple them with this move you really would.i cant remember if it works on evasion if it does all those turns using the move double team in an attempt you make yourself an invincible dodgemon would go to waste if this move work on evasion.basically its incredibly useful move.i personally cant wait to find out malmars eggs moves.
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle]
Rick: 1762-3757-5744 [Rock: Dwebble, Pupitar, Shuckle] Thu 07 Nov 2013 23:47:08 No. 15704089 Report >>15703860 Lolol, wow dude.areyou nu to capitalization andslashorspaces? Like lolol. what evenis a space. liek seriously, spaces!!! Lololololiloilogdtklo2fg. are u nu to 4chanz? Im a certifiedproffesional. Lol0l.
O'Malley 0232-8330-5220
Anonymous
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>>15704089 Rick, you enormous faggot, you are more hateable than no punctuation man up there.
Anonymous
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>>15704089 Are you still mad that you sabotaged your own argument and proved Malamar was OU material? Taking that anger out on others isn't healthy, Rick. And what happened to leaving the thread? You just can't leave well enough alone, can you? You should have left while you still had your dignity.
