/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #15742658

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Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 02:44:27 No.15742658 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>15745560 >>15747528 >>15747894 >>15748577 >>15748808

How do you honestly feel about stealth rock?

Necessary to check a lot of threats, or too powerful for a one turn hazard?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 03:31:27 No.15744271 Report

Quoted By:

I think it's too powerful for a one turn hazard. It checks some threats, but most of what it "checks" wasn't that big of a threat in the first place. It's supposed to be to check hyper offense, but what it ends up doing is unbalancing the type chart even more than it already was.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 04:14:28 No.15745560 Report

Quoted By: >>15745760 >>15748309

>>15742658

People would bitch about sneaky pebbles less if it wasn't for the fact that it happens to check a whole mess of pokemon with good designs.

Without stealth rocks, the metagame actually narrows. Because there are so many OHKO-capable pokemon out there, all-out offense becomes the only game in town.

Stealth Rocks allows defensive teams a fighting chance at walling offensive teams off. Fact is that it doesn't actually OHKO anything. Even a pokemon that has its HP reduced by 50% on entry can still sweep the entire board. Everything devolves into sweeper predictioning with no alternative strategies.

Rocks allows pokemon incapable of doing a full-HP OHKO to exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 04:16:32 No.15745613 Report

Quoted By:

It should be removed from the game or require 1 set for 12.5%, 2 sets for 25%, no third set.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 04:18:04 No.15745660 Report

Quoted By: >>15745729 >>15745818

the rocks should wear down. so after three-five switch ins the rocks will crumble. thus limiting the amount of damage they can do but not completely nerfing them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 04:20:30 No.15745729 Report

Quoted By: >>15749583

>>15745660

I agree with this only if spike-setting can become a weather ability that certain pokemon get to do on entry.

I would actually seriously get behind some sort of extreme terrain weather condition. And the fact that it could be checked by other weather-setters means that the move advantage that you grant in spinning/defogging to remove rocks is no longer as much of an issue.

This is the best solution: To make it weather, and give it all the benefits of weather, such as auto-setting, extensions, and the like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 04:21:33 No.15745760 Report

Quoted By: >>15745833

>>15745560
The issue with this is that rocks don't actually stop hyper-offense better than spikes do. What rocks ACTUALLY do is make a shitload of types unviable that were already underpowered,
Couple that with the aforementioned fact that rocks don't kill from full HP, and what you end up with is a fast pokemon that can switch into them and continue to sweep, and a slower, more defensively oriented pokemon that switches in, takes 25%, and then dies before it can do anything.
Rocks benefit hyper-offense more than anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 04:23:41 No.15745818 Report

Quoted By:

>>15745660
I just want ground types to auto-absorb stealth rocks like poison types absorb toxic spikes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 04:24:03 No.15745833 Report

Quoted By: >>15748186

>>15745760

It benefits hyper-offense in the starting slot, where it has always dominated anyways, since a t1 forced switch is such a huge swing. Spikes at least gives variety to the situation, since it gives you options other than hyper speed and superior coverage on your first turn.

It is not great, but at least the initial fight is more interesting. I think the inclusion of Sticky Web will help diversify things further. Web is scary good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:28:11 No.15747448 Report

Quoted By:

Thank god for stealth rock cause if it weren't for that, volcarona would be a bitch to deal with

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:31:13 No.15747528 Report

Quoted By: >>15747712

>>15742658
THEY MADE MY LIZARD BRO USELESS
ANYONE WHO USES SCRUB ROCKS IS A SCRUB THEMSELVES

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:38:39 No.15747712 Report

Quoted By:

>>15747528
>implying charizard would be any less of a low tier poke without stealth rocks

Joshiii

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_2013-11-03-15-02-59-1.png, 84KiB, 317x285

Joshiii Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:44:39 No.15747894 Report

Quoted By: >>15747935 >>15747995

>>15742658
>mfw people complain about SR
>Defog
>Rapid Spin
>Magic bounce
Find a way .... im upset lol
We have brains

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:46:00 No.15747935 Report

Quoted By:

>>15747894
Defog is limited as fuck at the moment

Gotta wait until the bank comes out before it'll be relevant

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:47:53 No.15747982 Report

Quoted By:

I just think hazards in general are stupid. I don't like using them, and I don't like when others use them. There's no reason to penalize someone for putting in a new 'mon or switching out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:48:24 No.15747995 Report

Quoted By: >>15748100

>>15747894
What happens if your dedicated spinner/ bouncer/ defogger dies?

Joshiii

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1.png, 16KiB, 88x88

Joshiii Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:52:30 No.15748100 Report

Quoted By:

>>15747995
Blame yourself for alowing that to happen

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:53:14 No.15748124 Report

Quoted By:

hazards are fine but having a such a good offensive typing as an entry hazard mostly just serves to make some types arbitrarily less useful than others

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:55:25 No.15748180 Report

Quoted By: >>15748309

Rocks in theory are good. Rocks in practice are not.

They need to do less damage overall. Does 1/8th if you are neutral or resistant to it, does 1/4th if you are weak to it (regardless of 2x or 4x)

It's still good, but it's not as necessary as it once was

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 05:55:44 No.15748186 Report

Quoted By:

>>15745833
Sticky web is exactly what stealth rock should have been: something that benefits slow pokemon while hurting hyper-offense.

Alex 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?]

Alex 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?] Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:01:25 No.15748309 Report

Quoted By: >>15748392 >>15748530 >>15749220

>>15745560
>>15748180

These.

Rocks are absolutely necessary, and as the first anon pointed out, they do far more good than bad.

It's interesting to note that, most things that are hyper weak to rocks wouldn't be that great regardless. Moltres, Scyther, Butterfree, etc.. They're not spectacular or particularly unique. So rocks push them from UU-RU to NU. Not a huge problem.

That being said, I believe they should still just do a fixed 1/8th. There are only a few instances where the type chart comes into play in a beneficial manner, such as Volcarona. The inherent imbalance in the type chart is only compounded by the prevalence of SR, which is a bad idea.
SR should hurt hyper offense, not punish a type for being that type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:05:50 No.15748392 Report

Quoted By:

>>15748309
>SR should hurt hyper offense, not punish a type for being that type.

Pretty much sums up my entire feeling about the move.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:09:39 No.15748475 Report

Quoted By:

It's not so much that I hate stealth rocks it's that only Pokemon who are weak to rock are suffering. Imagine if there was an ice entry hazard (that didn't hit flying types), or a fire one.

I think it would be better if it did fixed damage. Yeah it could still hit x2 but at a fixed amount.

But yeah I sort of want every type to suffer/share the pain. More type specific entry hazards!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:12:32 No.15748530 Report

Quoted By: >>15749564

>>15748309
>one move pushes them down an entire tier
>not a huge problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:14:39 No.15748577 Report

Quoted By:

>>15742658
It unnecessarily nerfs already frail types like fire, ice, and flying for no reason. Stealth rock is a top-tier shit idea and a half.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:17:14 No.15748629 Report

Quoted By: >>15748674 >>15748755

>people complain that SR is the end of the world for any Pokemon weak to it
>what is Volcarona
>what is Talonflame

Anyone who thinks SR is a problem is a scrub who doesn't actually play, they're just butthurt that Charizard sucks and want a convenient scapegoat to blame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:18:38 No.15748674 Report

Quoted By:

>>15748629
I don't like Volcarona, Talonflame, OR Charizard.
I just want to use Yanmega again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:22:12 No.15748755 Report

Quoted By:

>>15748629

>I have no argument, I'll just blame Charizardfags

Volcarona has one of the best buffs in the game and Talonflame has priority Brave Bird. If anything, Stealth Rock is the only thing keeping them from being godlike.

Yes, a lot of pokemon that get wrecked by rocks aren't that great. The problem is that entire types are getting punished just for existing, and just because a few REALLY FUCKING GOOD pokemon are able to circumvent that, it doesn't make it fair.

Volcarona and Talonflame are the exception, not the rule.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:24:35 No.15748808 Report

Quoted By:

>>15742658
/r/ing a shiny version metagross in that pic

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:44:14 No.15749220 Report

Quoted By: >>15749424 >>15749440 >>15749564

>>15748309
Rocks doing a fixed 1/8th already makes them better than spikes thanks to the fact that nothing is rock immune. If that's too weak, a standard 1/6th would do.
My problems with rocks are that it is the only instance where passive damage scales, and since there's no limit to the damage they can do, it forces a truly terrible move (and the limited mons that use it) on to teams just to deal with it. (Compare Brick Break for dual screens or Hyper Voice for Substitute.)

Imagine a world where
>Leech seed saps 50% of Gastrodoon's health
>Wil o Wisp on Scizor? Two turns to live.
>Toxic counter starts at 1/8th vs. Grass types
>Common dragons taking 4x damage from hail storms?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:46:30 No.15749265 Report

Quoted By:

Fuck Volcarona.
I'm okay with stealth rock giving me a chance to keep this thing at bay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:54:57 No.15749424 Report

Quoted By:

>>15749220
>Garchomp, Mence and Dragonite take 4x from hail

Holy fuck this would actually make Hail viable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 06:55:49 No.15749440 Report

Quoted By:

>>15749220
>Common dragons taking 4x damage from hail storms?

I'm okay with this.

Alex 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?]

Alex 2964-8588-1752 [Krokorok+?+?] Sat 09 Nov 2013 07:02:12 No.15749564 Report

Quoted By:

>>15748530
If it was down a tier from OU, it'd be a bigger issue. As is, OU is standard, and that's where standard fare exists. All other tiers are, while perfectly legitimate on their own, subsequent after OU and a direct result of what OU is.
Because of that, falling a tier from UU to RU isn't really a big deal. Falling from OU to RU would be, however.

>>15749220
Yeah, you raise a good point. I'm more concerned that they do fixed damage, rather than what that fixed damage is.

I agree. I think I'm mainly miffed by the idea that a Fire type is immediately a problematic typing simply because of a mechanic that is necessary for reasons OTHER than nerfing Fire types.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Nov 2013 07:02:59 No.15749583 Report

Quoted By:

>>15745729

>spikes on switch in

I've reported this post but I don't think it's enough. Can you please post your 3DS friend code so I can report you there as well?

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