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a sort of colorfag Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:45:56 No.16393695 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>16393778 >>16393872 >>16393878 >>16394118 >>16395470 >>16395946

best tank/wall in x and y?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:47:16 No.16393716 Report

Quoted By: >>16393744

Gonna have to be more specific.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:48:01 No.16393735 Report

Quoted By:

Avalugg

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:48:42 No.16393744 Report

Quoted By:

>>16393716
This. Vaporeon, Gliscor, and Ferrothorn are still doing work as expected.

Notable X/Y candidates: Furfrou, Florges, Sylveon, Clefable, and Carbink.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:48:49 No.16393747 Report

Quoted By:

Right now: Gliscor.
When Poketransport is out: Gliscor and Empoleon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:49:31 No.16393754 Report

Quoted By:

Lugia and giratina.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:50:48 No.16393778 Report

Quoted By:

>>16393695
Avalugg for Physical. Maybe Florges or Sylveon for Special.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:53:43 No.16393820 Report

Quoted By: >>16393901

Reminder:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-59589953

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:53:54 No.16393824 Report

Quoted By:

Depends on what you mean by "best"

and Tank and wall are two very different things

a tank can take a beating and hit hard

a wall just flat out stops things

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:56:08 No.16393872 Report

Quoted By: >>16395949

>>16393695
Goodra, Florges, Sylveon, and (if you can work around its typing) Arourus all work pretty well as special tanks.

Avalugg and Furfrou both work as Physical tanks. Carbink is a mixed wall that does just a bit better against physical threats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:56:18 No.16393878 Report

Quoted By:

>>16393695
Goodra as a special wall, although a lot of its best sets play more like a bulky offense Pokemon most notably the assault vest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:56:57 No.16393890 Report

Quoted By:

I love Mega-Venusaur as a mixed wall. Damn, that thing is strong. Even seems to work as a decent check to Xerneas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:58:08 No.16393901 Report

Quoted By:

>>16393820

the funny part is, he could have just killed avulugg if he just kept focus punching

focus punch happens before avalanche

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 07:58:23 No.16393906 Report

Quoted By: >>16393941 >>16393972 >>16394037 >>16394045

>florges
Have people still not realized it's inferior to sylveon in every way yet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:00:12 No.16393941 Report

Quoted By: >>16393974 >>16394302

>>16393906
Till Pokebank Sylveon can't run Heal Bell which means Aromatherapy Florges is temporarily the better cleric.

Also Sylveon is really only better in the ability department (and not by much).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:02:00 No.16393972 Report

Quoted By:

>>16393906

well, it's kinda better before pokebank

once pokebank hits its outclassed, that pixiate hyper voice 2stong

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:02:16 No.16393974 Report

Quoted By: >>16394030

>>16393941
Also the overall bulk, coverage and wish passing departments.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:04:25 No.16394004 Report

Quoted By:

Assault vest goodra

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:06:23 No.16394030 Report

Quoted By: >>16394127

>>16393974
>Sylveon:
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/700.shtml#stats

>Florges:
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/671.shtml#stats

Basically equal. Florges actually has higher Sp.Def and 2 more Sp.Atk. Give it a Bold nature and EV it like a Vaporeon and you have yourself a nice little Cleric.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:06:35 No.16394031 Report

Quoted By: >>16394068 >>16394071 >>16394127 >>16394194

Shuckle.

Is there anything Shuckle can't do ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:06:53 No.16394037 Report

Quoted By: >>16394127

>>16393906
It outspeeds Sylveon.

Also it doesn't make me look like a furfag.

Neither of these things matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:07:22 No.16394045 Report

Quoted By: >>16394127

>>16393906
Florges is better support in doubles and can run a choice scarf, even though nobody except me is dumb enough to do that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:08:29 No.16394068 Report

Quoted By:

>>16394031
Revive Ed's mom

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:08:30 No.16394071 Report

Quoted By:

>>16394031
act

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:11:40 No.16394118 Report

Quoted By:

>>16393695
M-Aggron. Also Assault Vest T-Tar and Goodra.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:12:19 No.16394127 Report

Quoted By: >>16394146 >>16394153 >>16394213 >>16394238

>>16394030
>higher sp def
The lower HP means they have about the same special bulk. Since the defense stats are almost the same, this means sylveon has much higher physical bulk, meaning sylveon has more overall.
>2 more sp att
This is never going to be a factor. 2 points is nothing unless it's speed.
>>16394031
Hurt things. Do anything with taunted. I could go on.
>>16394037
Outspeeding sylveon is irrelevant since they're not being compared that way, and the extra speed is irrelevant because it doesn't naturally outspeed anything else of note and it's not going to invest in speed.
>>16394045
>doubles
You have to jump through a lot of hoops and use a gimped team to make that ability work and doubles is a format devoid of any real strategy beyond spamming surf/eq anyway.
>scarf
Why would you even

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:13:59 No.16394146 Report

Quoted By:

>>16394127

>doubles is a format devoid of any real strategy beyond spamming surf/eq anyway.

man, i agree with you on everything else

but dont talk shit about metas you clearly dont know shit about

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:14:22 No.16394153 Report

Quoted By: >>16394181

>>16394127
shuckle is best dps in game m8
toxic and or power swap

yfw trick room shuckle with 230 attack throwing rocks every where

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:16:17 No.16394181 Report

Quoted By:

>>16394153
>toxic
Because nothing else learns this.
>power swap
First off, you mean power trick. Second, all this does is annoy some sweepers
>everything else you said
I'm really not sure if you're trolling or actually that dumb.

Danae 0490-5820-2510

Danae 0490-5820-2510 Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:16:56 No.16394194 Report

Quoted By: >>16394300

>>16394031
>>Is there anything Shuckle can't do ?
>Shuckle cant tank

Suckle cant take a hit worth shit.

Empoleon (OU Choice Specs [Torrent]) Hydro Pump 137.7 - 162.29%
Crawdaunt (OU Choice Band) Crabhammer 119.67 - 140.98%
Swampert (OU Choice Band [Torrent]) Waterfall 111.47 - 132.78%
Metagross (OU Choice Band) Meteor Mash 108.19 - 127.86%
Tyranitar (OU Choice Band) Stone Edge 108.19 - 127.86%
Chandelure (OU Choice Specs [Flash Fire]) Overheat 97.13 - 114.34%
Jellicent (OU Choice Specs) Water Spout 95.9 - 113.11%
Terrakion (OU Choice Band) Stone Edge 95.9 - 113.11%
Metagross (OU Mixed) Meteor Mash 93.85 - 111.88%
Azumarill (OU Choice Band) Waterfall 93.44 - 110.65%
Keldeo (OU Choice Specs) Hydro Pump 91.8 - 109.01%
Empoleon (OU Choice Specs) Hydro Pump 90.98 - 108.19%
Durant (OU Offensive) Iron Head 89.34 - 105.32%
Feraligatr (OU Swords Dance [Torrent]) Waterfall 86.88 - 103.27%
Metagross (OU Agility) Meteor Mash 86.47 - 102.45% Zen

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:18:26 No.16394213 Report

Quoted By: >>16394229

>>16394127
>You have to jump through a lot of hoops and use a gimped team to make that ability work
Sun teams aren't even slightly gimped compared to most teams, which is where you'd find most of your usable grass types. And Symbiosis is a fucking fantastic asset for a ton of Pokemon. Giving any Pokemon two items so long as the first is a consumable? There is no Pokemon that does not want that as support.
>and doubles is a format devoid of any real strategy beyond spamming surf/eq anyway.
You have clearly not played doubles.
>Why would you even
Has enough defense to take hits anyway, has enough power in moonblast alone to hurt enough things. Outspeeds base 70 +1s and base 130s. It's in the perfect speed tier to run past everything notable and score an unpredictable kill, because who the fuck would use choice scarf florges?
Incredibly useful against overconfident Mega Gengar users as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:19:59 No.16394229 Report

Quoted By: >>16394248

>>16394213
>Incredibly useful against overconfident Mega Gengar users as well.
>only attacks it gets are fairy and grass
So you're relying on hidden power for that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:20:28 No.16394238 Report

Quoted By: >>16394298

>>16394127
>scarf
It might be its hidden ability being able to grant the scarf boost to its teammates (not 100% on that).

And as for the Special Defense the higher it is the less % of total health is lost as a result. This means that Florges can invest where it is weakest (physical defense) and still take less damage overall than Sylveon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:21:15 No.16394248 Report

Quoted By: >>16394298

>>16394229
It gets psychic, you know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:25:00 No.16394298 Report

Quoted By: >>16394399

>>16394238
>And as for the Special Defense the higher it is the less % of total health is lost as a result.
I don't think you fully understand how calculations work. You seem to be implying that the entire hp stat is irrelevant and all damage is done in percents rather than actual numbers.
>>16394248
Fair enough, I forgot it even learned that. Still, you're better off using togekiss for this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:25:05 No.16394300 Report

Quoted By: >>16394321 >>16394429

>>16394194
>Shuckle can't take a SE hit off of a high attacking stat worth shit when unboosted
You wouldn't send a Shuckle in against those kinds of mons. It goes in against other tanks/walls that can't touch it, gets a few contrary shell smashes out, and then goes to town with toxic/infestation/substitute stall. Generally you have a turn or two before your opponent realizes how fucked they are.

Is it perfect? No. Is it even good? Probably not. But it's definitely better than you seem to think it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:25:10 No.16394302 Report

Quoted By:

>>16393941
Technically pixilate is a great ability, it makes it much more usably offensively. (Only when Pokebank opens though, 90(hyper voice) x 1.3 (pixilate bonus) = 117 + STAB, and bypasses subs). Sylveon arguably has a better movepool as well, but only marginally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:26:45 No.16394321 Report

Quoted By: >>16394432

>>16394300
>You wouldn't send a Shuckle in against those kinds of mons.
I wouldn't send a shuckle out at all.
>Generally you have a turn or two before your opponent realizes how fucked they are.
Before they taunt it and set up or just crush it you mean.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:32:11 No.16394399 Report

Quoted By: >>16394456 >>16395966

>>16394298
>I don't think you fully understand how calculations work. You seem to be implying that the entire hp stat is irrelevant and all damage is done in percents rather than actual numbers.
It sounds like you don't know how they work when you're not only dealing with Wish passing. 33% on any Pokemon is 33%, that means it dies in 3 hits no matter if it only has 300 total HP or 714 HP.

Taking 200 damage but having 400 HP is a lot better than taking 150 damage and only having 200 HP

Danae 0490-5820-2510

Danae 0490-5820-2510 Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:33:43 No.16394429 Report

Quoted By: >>16394454

>>16394300

dude, Durant was on that list....freaking Durant.

Also, the next mon on that damage list, Kabutops.

Shuckle just doesnt have what it takes to be good. niche maybe, but never good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:33:49 No.16394432 Report

Quoted By: >>16394456

>>16394321
>Before they Taunt it and set up or just crush it you mean.
Yes. Assuming that both of the following are true:
>They know enough about shuckle to realize these things will handle it easily
>They still have something on their team capable of doing so
Fortunately for me, and others who use Shuckle, at least one of these things is false a good chunk of the time.

It's gimmicky, but it works. Kind of like Shedinja. Easy to counter, but if you don't have a counter or your counter already died, you're fucked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:35:03 No.16394454 Report

Quoted By:

>>16394429
... I even said myself it wasn't good. I don't understand your point any more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:35:07 No.16394456 Report

Quoted By: >>16394557

>>16394399
Except in this case it's more like taking 100 while having 200 vs taking 150 and having 300.
>>16394432
Except that counter is literally anything with taunt or a steel type.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 08:40:51 No.16394557 Report

Quoted By:

>>16394456
With Infestation, steel types no longer render Shuckle useless. As for taunt, not everyone carries it and few people carry it on more than one pokemon.

Shedinja is dealt with by weather, burn, poison, and just about anything with a Fire/Flying/Rock/Dark/Ghost move. But it's possible to bring down even good players with it if they slip up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 09:48:28 No.16395470 Report

Quoted By:

>>16393695
The one Mewtwo's staring at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 09:49:40 No.16395486 Report

Quoted By: >>16395565

Physical? Mega Aggron
Special? Blissey
Both? Dusclops

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 09:57:16 No.16395565 Report

Quoted By: >>16395822

>>16395486
>Mega Aggron

you realize that Mega Aggron is 2HKO by nearly every single OU physical attacker launching a Super effective move at it right?

And with a lack of instant recovery you're pretty much left in the dust unless you're down to just you and the one physical mon.

not much of a wall/tank

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 10:22:40 No.16395822 Report

Quoted By:

>>16395565
From the current usage stats, some of the most used physical attackers:
252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 111-133 (32.2 - 38.6%)

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 148-175 (43 - 50.8%)

252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 105-124 (30.5 - 36%)

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 154-183 (44.7 - 53.1%)

252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 127-153 (36.9 - 44.4%)

252+ Atk Choice Band Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 85-102 (24.7 - 29.6%)

252+ Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 132-157 (38.3 - 45.6%)

252 Atk Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%)

Very few can 2HKO and those who can have a low chance of doing so. Keep in mind this is a 0 def aggron, so it can run adamant with 252/208 atk evs off 140 base attack.

Will mega aggron stop every physical threat? No. But you can't deny it's a good tank.
I've been running a resttalk set quite effectively, since rest was buffed this gen.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 10:36:30 No.16395946 Report

Quoted By: >>16396056

>>16393695
Hydration goodra maybe, is quite bulky and has a decent firepower but i don't think it can be considered a real tank.
My favourite wall is Vaporeon, still do a perfect job in gen VI with its wish/protect/Scald/Roar build.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 10:36:43 No.16395949 Report

Quoted By:

>>16393872
>Carbink
>Not just there for Sturdy/Trick Room/Explosion

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 10:39:29 No.16395966 Report

Quoted By:

>>16394399
Except moves don't deal 33% damage. They deal a direct number of damage. HP matters equally to the defensive stat in terms of how much damage you take.

Case in point: Blissey, with a pitiful 10 base Def, is PHYSICALLY BULKIER than Florges. Why? It's monstrous 255 HP meaning way more than Florges' 68 Def. The difference between Florges and Syvelon comes down to:

Sylveon is stronger (Pixilate Hyper Voice and Shadow Ball net you more damage than 2 SpA)
Sylveon is substantially physically bulkier
Florges has somewhat better special bulk.
Florges is faster

Unfortunately for Florges, the SpD bonus over Sylveon is much smaller than the Def bonus Sylveon gets, and the speed tier it sits in doesn't really outspeed anything notable that Sylveon doesn't already... Florges isn't strictly worse, but generally, there's no reason to use it over Sylveon after Pokebank comes out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 10:48:55 No.16396056 Report

Quoted By: >>16396129

>>16395946
How do you feel about Yawn instead of Roar for wifi battles? I assume you picked Roar for Pokemon that Scald doesn't affect?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 10:51:58 No.16396085 Report

Quoted By:

Clefable is the only wall that can also sweep with ease

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 10:56:30 No.16396129 Report

Quoted By: >>16396174

>>16396056
I use Roar to deal with autobuff pokemon. I don't like the scald/yawn couple because If you use Yawn on a pokemon you cannot burn it with scald, and viceversa. So i like to abuse of scald because of damage + status, and roar them if they DD, SD, etc...
Is something more adaptative imho.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 11:00:36 No.16396174 Report

Quoted By: >>16396216

>>16396129
Ah thank you. I have a 4 IV Eevee (HP/SpD/SpATK/Def) and I'm not sure what to do with it. It's Modest and has Adaptability

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 11:05:10 No.16396216 Report

Quoted By: >>16396225

>>16396174
A wall Vaporeon is better Bold than modest. That eevee is good for an espeon (despite non being anticipation) or jolteon (despite non being perfect in spe) in my opinion. Btw a modest vaporeon can be good too, it can make a decent job with surf+icebeam as a damage dealer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 11:05:58 No.16396225 Report

Quoted By: >>16396276

>>16396216
Thanks again for your advice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Dec 2013 11:08:48 No.16396276 Report

Quoted By:

>>16396225
no problems bro

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