/vp/ - Pokémon » Thread #16609345

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374KiB, 800x960, mega_lucario_by_phatmon66-d6hdnid.png

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:42:48 No.16609345 View View Reply Original Report

This guy is being suspected on Pokemon Online:
http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?23541-Lucarionite-Suspect-Discussion

If it gets banned there it's a matter of time till it gets banned on Smogon.

I understand Mega Gengar (who is still allowed on PO for some reason) and Mega Kanga are broken, but M-Luke? isn't it pretty much the same as normal Lucario?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:46:57 No.16609376 Report

Quoted By: >>16609499 >>16609803

>>16609345

This is why M-Luke is broken:

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 380-448 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Physical M-Luke actually sucks. Use normal Lucario instead. It's the special set that is utterly broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:47:34 No.16609384 Report

Quoted By: >>16609393 >>16611826

>>16609345
lol PO

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:48:44 No.16609393 Report

Quoted By: >>16609432 >>16611826

>>16609384
Lol PO indeed but PO and Smogon copy each other's bans so that's the only reason it's relevant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:48:52 No.16609394 Report

Quoted By: >>16611826

lol PO

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:51:58 No.16609426 Report

Quoted By: >>16609446 >>16611826

So, how long until the online simulators ban all the mega stones?

Or, you know, they finally admit stall is a dead gimick.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:52:21 No.16609432 Report

Quoted By: >>16609457 >>16611826

>>16609393
They don't though.
Also lol PO

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:53:04 No.16609437 Report

Quoted By: >>16611826

lol PO

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:53:51 No.16609446 Report

Quoted By: >>16610048

>>16609426
>implying all mega evolutions are broken

Mewtwo and Blaziken are uber by default.
Gengar and Kanga are broken.
Luke is borderline broken
All the others are fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:55:24 No.16609457 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609432
>They don't though.

You may want to doublecheck that statement because they copied every single ban for the entirety of Gen 5, down to Drizzle+Swift Swim.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:55:41 No.16609460 Report

Quoted By:

lol PO

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:57:04 No.16609474 Report

Quoted By:

lol
P.O. Box 123 Street Avenue
Somewhere L.O.L
00183

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1385384118275.png, 258KiB, 497x353

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 13:59:06 No.16609490 Report

Quoted By: >>16609500

Watch, pretty soon all mega evos are gonna be banned

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:00:13 No.16609499 Report

Quoted By: >>16609517

>>16609376
Isn't Blissey a fairer matchup though?

And what kind of Chansey family trainer doesn't max their HP as well?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1384984973217s.jpg, 7KiB, 250x212

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:00:30 No.16609500 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609490
I like potatoes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:03:29 No.16609517 Report

Quoted By: >>16609535 >>16609659

>>16609499
Eviolite Chansey maxes both defenses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:07:27 No.16609535 Report

Quoted By: >>16609624 >>16609646

>>16609517
Alright, Why no maxed HP then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:17:21 No.16609605 Report

Quoted By: >>16609642 >>16609653

But they aren't all broken. Hell M-Garchomp is arguably worse than regular

Stuff like Mawile and Banette go from completely dire to actual threats

GF shouldn't have give 500BST+ creatures fucking Megas, give it to stuff that needed the buff

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:20:32 No.16609624 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609535
Since the HP is already very high, the changes from EVs are a smaller fraction of the total stat, so adding to the defences is more efficient.
Think of it like this:
Toughness = HP * Defence
If HP = 250 and Defence = 100, and you can add 10 to one of them, adding it onto the Defence has a greater effect on toughness than adding it onto HP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:23:49 No.16609642 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609605
I agree but Megas are first and foremost a marketing tool in the hands of GF... it was pretty much a given that already popular (and powerful) pokemon were going to get a mega evo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:24:00 No.16609643 Report

Quoted By: >>16609660 >>16609677 >>16609715 >>16611343

How is Mega Lucario OP if I can OHKO with an Extrasensory from my Greninja.

banana milk

banana milk Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:24:27 No.16609646 Report

Quoted By: >>16609682

>>16609535
to better use the eviolite def and special def boosting ability

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:25:20 No.16609653 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609605
So much this. Honestly I almost hope every mega evolution that wasn't need gets banned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:26:05 No.16609659 Report

Quoted By: >>16609682

>>16609517
because evolite increases defences (including the EVs) but not HP, so maxing defences makes full use of evolite

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:26:35 No.16609660 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609643
For the same reason Rayquaza is OP even though you can OHKO it with Ice Beam on your Starmie: unless the user is a total idiot, you won't even get the chance to damage it while it sweeps your team.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:29:11 No.16609677 Report

Quoted By: >>16609763

>>16609643
252 SpA Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lucario: 150-177 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:30:24 No.16609682 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609646
>>16609659
>What is effective HP
Not that I don't agree with 252 Def and SpD, its just saying that the effect of your HP EVs aren't doubled by evolite is wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:34:04 No.16609702 Report

Quoted By:

Actually Chansey maxes both defenses in ubers, in OU it usually runs max HP and Def.
However ith that spread +2 special M-Luke still 2HKO's it so it's fair to say Eviolite Chansey loses against it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:35:09 No.16609715 Report

Quoted By: >>16609718

>>16609643
>I've never actually OHKO'd a Lucario with my Extrasensory Greninja but maybe if I lie it will seem less broken

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:36:04 No.16609718 Report

Quoted By: >>16609752 >>16609763 >>16609773 >>16609774

>>16609715

...but I have though.

I mean, I'm probably playing against kids using the freebie Lucario, but I've done it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:39:25 No.16609752 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609718
>scrubs on Wifi
>relevant at all

Anyone using Wifi as their evidence automatically discredit themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:40:16 No.16609763 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609718
See
>>16609677
Even without any IVs it can't happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:41:13 No.16609773 Report

Quoted By: >>16609781

>>16609718
Were you running modest nature? That's the only way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:41:19 No.16609774 Report

Quoted By: >>16609816 >>16610238

>>16609718
No you haven't, not even choice banded modest protean fully invested against a negative nature m-lucatio comes close.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:42:15 No.16609781 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609773
Or specs?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:44:12 No.16609795 Report

Quoted By: >>16609823

252+ SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 246-289 (87.5 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

This is only achievable with a +Spatk nature.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:44:37 No.16609803 Report

Quoted By: >>16609827 >>16609839 >>16609840

>>16609376
>revenge killed easily by my excadrill
who cares

>running special variant lucario
even less cares are being emitted from me right now

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:45:59 No.16609815 Report

Quoted By:

This is why i love muh choice scarf chandelure. Beats up Lucario and mega kangaroo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:46:00 No.16609816 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609774
Adding to this it's only a 50% chance to kill after rocks if the lucario has a 0 in both special defence and hp.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Modest Seriously.png, 67KiB, 1273x858

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:46:34 No.16609821 Report

Quoted By: >>16609840

Did I do this wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:46:56 No.16609823 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609795
Also much higher chance to OHKO with hazards, it's possible with a +spatk nature which is obviously unoptimal on ninjafrog but still.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:47:16 No.16609827 Report

Quoted By: >>16609849 >>16609871 >>16609903 >>16609930 >>16609972 >>16611914

>>16609803
>NOT running special Mega Lucario
Here's the deal: physical Lucario sucks. It really does. Run normal Lucario with Life Orb and use your megamon slot for something else instead.
Special M-Luke, on the other hand, has NO counters and it's what pushes it beyond the line.
If it wasn't for the special set Lucarionite would have no reason to be banned from OU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:48:13 No.16609834 Report

Quoted By: >>16609845 >>16609855 >>16609879

How good is SD Mega Scizor?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:48:50 No.16609839 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609803

wouldn't a special variant's vacuum wave kill your excadrill though?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:49:04 No.16609840 Report

Quoted By: >>16609856 >>16609906

>>16609821
You didn't, I already posted the calc a little earlier.
No one runs Modest on Greninja though, but yeah.

>>16609803

Only scarfed variants of Excadrill or Excadrill with Sand Rush activated can outspeed and revenge Mega-Luke, if it runs Vacuum Wave on a special set it kills you if you have taken prior damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:49:44 No.16609845 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609834
MegaScizor is pretty shit and I've had no troubles dealing with it whatsoever thus far.
SD might be better than standard LO, but you may as well just run BD Azumarill if you want a set up sweeper with hard hitting priority.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:50:22 No.16609849 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609827
Special M-Luke's brokeness is a relatively recent thing to be honest. Everyone dismissed that at first because "OMG ADAPTABILITY CLOSE COMBAT BULLET PAWNCH!!!11" but since this metagame is heavily physically-based there are more physical walls than special around, so in practice physical M-Luke isn't as good as it seems on paper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:51:13 No.16609855 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609834
The bullet punches punch holes through pretty much anything that doesn't resists it, but steel isn't exactly the best type for dealing damage.
My one has OHKO'd every single mega Aero I've battled without any buffs

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:51:22 No.16609856 Report

Quoted By: >>16609876

>>16609840
Nor does anyone run a -SpD nature with 0IVs in HP and SpD lol.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:53:00 No.16609865 Report

Quoted By: >>16609891

It's funny how every almost every mega is going to keep getting banned like this, people want to run these things in their teams so the next best one is going to become overused as hell until all of the good ones are banned and it's no longer 'mandatory' to run one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:53:43 No.16609871 Report

Quoted By: >>16609885 >>16609899

>>16609827
Yeah physical M-Luke isn't worth it.
Normal Luke can actually beat Smogonbird with LO-boosted Extremespeed and that alone is huge, so it's better to run that and another mega evolution if you want to go physical.
I too underestimated special M-Luke at first but after seeing that Aura Sphere vs Eviolite Chansey calculation... damn. That thing would single-handedly dismantle most stall and balanced teams by itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:54:12 No.16609876 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609856
My calc had 31 spdef and 31 HP IVs, actually. Let me recalc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:54:30 No.16609879 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609834
Love him, literally the only Mega I use. People actually say "why the fuck is it so bulky" then quit because there earthquakes are only doing 17% damage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:55:35 No.16609885 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609871
Fucking Smogonbird is the reason I stopped running Mega Lucario.
This special variant sounds really intriguing though, I'm gonna give it a try.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:56:07 No.16609891 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609865
>almost every mega is going to keep getting banned like this
So?
>it's no longer 'mandatory' to run one
I hope so

Megaevolutions should have been to buff bad pokemon into usability, not rock the foundation of how you build teams.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:56:56 No.16609899 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609871
You lose almost by default if it gets a Nasty Plot boost off too, most mons capable of revenging him get picked of by +2 Vacuum Wave.
Also Sticky Web support is really good for him.

Regular physical Luke deals with Talonflame much better though.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO imge.gif, 49KiB, 401x296

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:57:23 No.16609903 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609827
>"It's actually dead set armageddon on a stick"
>I've been somehow continuously failing at Special MLuke this whole time

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:57:43 No.16609906 Report

Quoted By: >>16609923

>>16609840
my Excadrill is scarfed with mold breaker

I posted this before and people went
>LOL HAHA YOU SUCK
yeah, well it's taken me all the way to rank 2,100 so fuck you fags

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 14:57:49 No.16609907 Report

Quoted By: >>16609922

What is Mega Luke's moveset and nature?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:00:47 No.16609922 Report

Quoted By: >>16610820

>>16609907
Lucario @ Butt Plug
Gay Nature
-Faglord Attack
-Faglord Attack
-Faglord Attack
-Faglord Attack

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:01:09 No.16609923 Report

Quoted By: >>16609934

>>16609906
Scarf Excadrill is fine, don't get so angry you nigger, it's just not common and doesn't make Lucario less broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:01:51 No.16609930 Report

Quoted By: >>16609936 >>16609939

>>16609827
what's a good special lucario moveset anon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:02:47 No.16609934 Report

Quoted By: >>16609950

>>16609923
when I posted scarf excadrill in another thread, literally every rank 1400 faggot in the thread replied to my post and told me it was shit

consistently, that pokemon is the one pokemon who does more work for me than any of the shifting pokemon on my team
unfortunately dies to vacuum wave but nobody runs special lucario from what I see

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:03:03 No.16609936 Report

Quoted By: >>16609962

>>16609930
Nasty Plot, Vacuum Wave/Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon.

Something along those lines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:03:49 No.16609939 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609930
make it yourself holy shit it's not that hard
it's not like it has unique EV's or anything, it's a generic special sweeper, and you don't even have to think about what item to give it

jesus christ just do it

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:05:26 No.16609950 Report

Quoted By: >>16609955

>>16609934
They are 1400 faggots for a reason.

I run Dugtrio so I take a gigantic shit on Lucario's that are not special (even special sets if sash is intact) but you NEED something that can reliably revenge him or you lose as soon as you run into him because he can't be walled properly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:06:54 No.16609955 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609950
Dugtrio is pretty erspectable, you have good tastes. I haven't looked into him in the new gen, does he have to run retarded moves because of no move tutor? It drives me crazy that I can't put iron head on excadrill, good thing fairies aren't so popular (besides azu)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:07:33 No.16609962 Report

Quoted By: >>16610021

>>16609936

I've always wondered why dark pulse and not shadow ball

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1385795935734.png, 189KiB, 586x487

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:09:09 No.16609972 Report

Quoted By: >>16611572

>>16609827
>tfw made special megaluke not knowing it would become fotm ban plz
No counters? Jesus, Azumarill can take any manner of Vacuum Wave and if Aqua Jet isn't a OHKO it's damn close. It can probably take anything besides a boosted Shadow Ball for that matter.

He's strong, for sure, but I think this is more overkill than banning Gengarite was.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:10:29 No.16609984 Report

Quoted By: >>16610027

why is everyone suggesting special lucario?

>no +2 priority ex speed
>no adaptability CC (basically explosion)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:15:41 No.16610021 Report

Quoted By: >>16610117

>>16609962
i guess because of the flinch chance?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:16:19 No.16610026 Report

Quoted By: >>16610206 >>16610224 >>16610668

Lucario has some major moveslot restrictions, though. It needs flash cannon for a STAB steel. For fighting, a non invested CC will do more than a fully invested aura sphere. If it wants coverage, it needs ghost/dark, and it has to pack nasty plot too.

There. Everything full.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:16:31 No.16610027 Report

Quoted By: >>16610125

>>16609984
because LO normal lucario is just on par with physical M-lucario, maybe better

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:19:42 No.16610048 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609446
but every team will want a mega, meaning that the next best one will become meta centralizing, causing a ban

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:20:28 No.16610053 Report

Quoted By:

>Suspect

Doesn't mean it will get banned its just being discussed. Suspect testing happens all the time. Anyways M-Luke is retarded strong but its not hard to beat

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:27:38 No.16610117 Report

Quoted By: >>16610153

>>16610021

But isn't Dark NVE against steel in thins gen? Aegislash could be a threat... and what if I'm facing a Fighting type?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:27:51 No.16610125 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610027
normal has shithouse 90 speed
mega has 112, which is often enough to sweep

Lorbed normal only has 20 more attack, and takes damage

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:30:42 No.16610153 Report

Quoted By: >>16610176

>>16610117
Dark is neutral to steel, it was NVE previous gens

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:33:28 No.16610176 Report

Quoted By: >>16610199

>>16610153
Shadow Ball is still superior coverage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:35:48 No.16610199 Report

Quoted By: >>16610242

>>16610176
dark is easier predictions for kanga

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:36:30 No.16610206 Report

Quoted By: >>16610232

>>16610026
>It needs flash cannon for a STAB steel.

Why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:38:28 No.16610224 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610026

He has a tiny but usable special movepool worth using.

Aura Sphere
Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse
Nasty Plot

Then you decide if you want flash cannon, vacuum punch, or hidden power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:39:25 No.16610232 Report

Quoted By: >>16610268

>>16610206
Fairies

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1385649139789.jpg, 36KiB, 520x520

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:39:45 No.16610238 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609774
>I'm talking shit when I haven't even done any calculations.

Okay, it's very unlikely but still possible:

252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Lucario: 281-331 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The only way Life Orb Greninja can get a guaranteed OHKO against M-Lucario is with max Sp. Attack while the Lucario must have a -Sp. Defense nature and 4 or less IVs in Sp. Def. A possible (although very unlikely) OHKO can be achieved if the Lucario has -Sp. Def nature and 31 IVs.

252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Lucario: 238-281 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

If the Lucario has neutral nature and 31 IVs in Sp. Def, even Specs won't guarantee OHKO.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lucario: 246-289 (87.5 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

>tl;dr it's possible for Greninja to OHKO M-Lucario but extremely unlikely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:39:58 No.16610242 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610199
Why would someone switch in Kanga on M-Lucario, Close Combat and its OHKO.

Though on a neutral Pokemon dark is better than ghost as they cover the same things but ghost cant hit normal

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:42:30 No.16610268 Report

Quoted By: >>16610333

>>16610232

A +2 shadow ball can 2 hit the only 3 relevant fairies in the game,. azumarill, togekiss, and mega mawhile. They can't switch in on him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:42:41 No.16610271 Report

Quoted By: >>16610341

>suddenly everyone is calling lucario "luke"

what the fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:47:16 No.16610333 Report

Quoted By: >>16610373

>>16610268
You're not always going to be at +2 and Flash Cannon does more damage to each of them than Shadow Ball before and after a Nasty Plot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:47:46 No.16610341 Report

Quoted By: >>16610398

>>16610271
>suddenly
people have done this for 2 years now

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:51:23 No.16610373 Report

Quoted By: >>16610438

>>16610333

Special mega lucario isn't a real threat until +2 in the first place. And I'm just saying you don't need Flash cannon to deal with all of 3 pokemon, especially when another move of his deals with them anyways. Priority on vacuum wave is probably better in the long run than flash cannon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:53:38 No.16610398 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610341
haven't seen it on /vp/ ever

so must be from other communities or someshit

it sounds pretty dumb tbh

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:54:21 No.16610404 Report

Quoted By: >>16610413

LO Luke > MLuke

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:56:03 No.16610413 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610404
>90 Spe
fuck off with that

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 15:59:49 No.16610438 Report

Quoted By: >>16610597 >>16610622

>>16610373
Flash Cannon can OHKO them all after rocks and a Nasty Plot while Shadow Ball can only 2HKO at best.

>+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 221-261 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 331-391 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 192-227 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 288-340 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

>+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 121-143 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO
>+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 362-428 (96.7 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:15:34 No.16610597 Report

Quoted By: >>16610644 >>16610672

>>16610438

You really going to make me do this?

You also forgot to set its ability to Adaptability.

>+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 384-454 (126.3 - 149.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Same as flash cannon.

Redundant coverage.

>+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 221-261 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

2 hit by shadow ball (and aura sphere),

Fore reference.

>252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 133-157 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

Can not switch in and threaten him. Even has a chance of losing as a revenge killer.

So you use flash cannon to counter togekiss. Hardly worth the move slot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:17:49 No.16610622 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610438
>using special lucario
>ever

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 454-536 (112.3 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 312-368 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 792-932 (211.7 - 249.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:20:48 No.16610644 Report

Quoted By: >>16610668 >>16610706

>>16610597
what are you even using shadow ball to hit? adapt flash cannon is just as strong as an SE shadow ball hit

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:23:27 No.16610668 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610644

>>16610026

Said that Lucario needs flash cannon, because fairies. I'm just saying that he doesn't (except for togekiss), which lets you keep a slot for Vacuum wave to get rid of those pokemon faster than you, and scarfers and shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:24:05 No.16610672 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610597
>Can not switch in and threaten him. Even has a chance of losing as a revenge killer.

And what Azumarill or Mawile come in after you've killed something instead? Azumarill OHKO's you with Superpower and Mawile OHKO's you with Fire Fang. Flash Cannon makes it so they can't beat you in any situation, not just when they switch in.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ss (2013-12-11 at 10.25.53).png, 131KiB, 1166x1232

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:27:05 No.16610706 Report

Quoted By: >>16610726 >>16612093

>>16610644

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:29:10 No.16610726 Report

Quoted By: >>16610734

>>16610706
I lost the link to this damn site and I don't even remember the name. Would you be so kind to share it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:29:34 No.16610734 Report

Quoted By: >>16610750

>>16610726

http://pokemondb.net/tools/type-coverage

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1386612344310.gif, 2MiB, 480x270

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:31:40 No.16610750 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610734
Thank you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:31:58 No.16610751 Report

Quoted By: >>16612533

Mega evolution is horrible and should be removed from the game. I really hope it's just a generational gimmick, but I'm afraid next gen we'll still have mega evos (except they're not going to even bother adding new ones) and instead they're axing amie.

Just you watch, GF will fuck this up something fierce.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 16:39:24 No.16610820 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609922

Edge McHard Jackknife

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 17:29:22 No.16611343 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609643
Or he could vacuum wave your ass faget.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 17:44:49 No.16611572 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609972
>Azumarill
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 442-522 (109.4 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 133-157 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

Nope, sorry.
Azumarill loses against M-Luke.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 17:49:01 No.16611625 Report

Quoted By: >>16611672 >>16611679

The very fact Mega Lucario can 2HKO Eviolite Chansey, the best special wall in the game, after a single turn of setup, WITH A SPECIAL ATTACK, is reason enough to ban Lucarionite.
Its only real flaw is its 4 moveslot syndrome: NP, Flash Cannon and Aura Sphere are mandatory, while the last move should be either Vacuum Wave for priority or Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball for things like Jellicent.
Other than that M-Luke is quite possibly the best special lategame sweeper in the game.
After Mega Kanga is banned almost every team will run it, you can bet on it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 17:52:21 No.16611672 Report

Quoted By: >>16611703 >>16611717 >>16611964

>>16611625
Who the fuck runs special Lucario

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 17:52:37 No.16611679 Report

Quoted By:

>>16611625
I would run Dark Pulse or Shadow Ball over Vacuum Wave to deal with Jellicent, Gyarados and Aegislash.
Priority is nice but this thing has 112 Speed and you're better off running other priority users like Mamoswine or Smogonbird.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 17:54:04 No.16611703 Report

Quoted By:

>>16611672
1850 players do since it's Lucario's best set.
Physical M-Lucario is outclassed by LO Lucario and only the low ladder kids use it.
It's pretty much like Swords Dance Aegislash: great on paper, a joke in practice against skilled players.
Git gud and you'll see for yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 17:55:14 No.16611717 Report

Quoted By:

>>16611672
Special Mega Lucario is the reason it's being suspected to begin with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 17:59:54 No.16611793 Report

Quoted By:

>metagame is heavily physical-based
>physical checks like Hippowdown, Intimidate Gyarados and WoW users are everywhere
>people wonder why physical M-Lucario is ineffective compared to special M-Lucario

Seriously it doesn't take rocket science to understand it.
The issue here is that not only is special Mega Lucario anti-meta, it actually beats special walls like Chansey too.
It should be pretty damn obvious why this thing is broken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:02:19 No.16611826 Report

Quoted By:

>>16609384
>>16609393
>>16609394
>>16609426
>>16609432
>>16609437
lol Smogon
>Pre/post pokebank shit
>Bans are done not respectin baseplayer opinion
Get over it

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:04:28 No.16611858 Report

Quoted By: >>16611877

Another reason physical M-Lucario sucks compared to LO Lucario:

+2 252 Atk Mega Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 250-295 (84.1 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 266-315 (89.5 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

It doesn't look like a huge difference at first, but with Smogonbird being the most used pokemon that can make or break a match.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:05:50 No.16611877 Report

Quoted By: >>16611891

>>16611858
Physical Mega Lucario can't afford to run Extremespeed anyways so it loses to Smogonbird regardless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:06:53 No.16611891 Report

Quoted By: >>16611928 >>16611933

>>16611877
What does physical Mega Lucario run then?
I assume Swords Dance/Close Combat/Bullet Punch/Crunch?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:08:27 No.16611914 Report

Quoted By: >>16611923 >>16611940

>>16609827
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 364-430 (86.6 - 102.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 322-380 (96.4 - 113.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
>Sucks
>defeats the 2 top physical walls in OU

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:09:34 No.16611923 Report

Quoted By:

>>16611914
Special beats all the special walls with no exceptions

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:09:57 No.16611928 Report

Quoted By:

>>16611891
Earthquake is generally better than Crunch because it doesn't trigger King's Shield and lets it beat Aegislash.
However with EQ it loses to Gourgeist and Gyarados, which is one of the reasons Mega Lucario isn't that good in this metagame.
Let me repeat: it's not good in THIS metagame. It would be if everyone wasn't prepared for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:10:26 No.16611933 Report

Quoted By:

>>16611891
SD, ExtremeSpeed, CC, Ice Punch/Crunch (i prefer Ice punch like ghost are handled for a pursuit partner)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:10:53 No.16611935 Report

Quoted By: >>16611967

Even if all the megas get banned
what is going to stop people from using their favorite banned mon?
>what is the worst
>smogonfags disconnecting

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:11:04 No.16611940 Report

Quoted By:

>>16611914
>implying Skarmory and Hippowdon are the 2 top physical walls in OU.
Gourgeist and Bulky Gyarados say hello.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:12:53 No.16611964 Report

Quoted By:

>>16611672
Everyone?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO o_o.png, 93KiB, 277x286

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:12:59 No.16611967 Report

Quoted By:

>>16611935
>he thinks we aren't talking about simulators and arranged matches

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:13:23 No.16611973 Report

Quoted By:

I usually run Sableye and I never found physical Lucario variants to be an issue because of priority WoW.
Special Mega Lucario on the other hand was unexpected and trashed me a couple of times. Better start getting prepared for it I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:21:35 No.16612093 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610706
So what you are saying is to run a Shedinja?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2013 18:48:27 No.16612533 Report

Quoted By:

>>16610751
trademarks revealed they have/had mega kyogre, groudon, rayquaza, sceptile, jynx, plusle, minun planned
it's only just beginning

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